Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 4 1998      Volume 1997 : Number 2200



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller Anime
An Alternative....
Loren goin' to Texas...
Dulinor and the plugged Emperor!
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2199
Re: Project Longbow?
Re: Re(2): Horrible realization
Project Longbow?
Re: Citizen Points
Re: Dulinor and the plugged Emperor!
Re: IISS Protective Detail
Barbie in Spaaaaace!
Re: (Fwd) Barbie's Starship
Re: Formulas
Re: Rodent Liquifaction Devices
Re: Metrics aren't Intuitive?  
Re: Project Longbow?
Starship Troopers
Re: The Kessel run

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 04:55:14 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller Anime

In mail you write:

>>My "best guess" for the fireball had them causing cratering and blast
>>effects on the planet. They were at geosynch altitude....
>
> Holy Hegnebar, Batman!  That's a Familie Spofulam sized blast!  ;-)

Well, one of the effects (we decided later) was that the atmosphere
code went from "Normal" to "Thin, tainted". The crater was rather
sizable. 

I basicly figured that given the "detonation" of the capacitors, there
was more than enough energy to turn the ship's LH2 supply into a fusion
bomb. And that led to the realization that the other ships were close
enough to do the same....

>>Since it had been a bit of "internal warfare" between some would-be
>>megacorps, I suggested to the ref (and he agreed!) that the Imperium
>>was looking for anyone connected with either side as "war criminals".
>
> And to think that _I_ came down hard on a group of players for detonating
> a nuke in a Class-C starport (at least it gave me an excuse to run Prison
> Planet next).

Hey, I *said* they were semi-munchkins!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:21:38 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: An Alternative....

Or is this version better?


......................................
The nations are marching.


All the world falls before the conquerors as the Empire of Vildor strives
to bring back the ancient ways, when all humanity were slaves to powerful
sorcerors.

The final battleground is Torgin, a weak border state. The Torginese resist
with sabre and musket, but they cannot survive. This time the Empire will
last forever.

The fate of nations rests in the hands of Dessartes, a cavalry officer who
was once a hero.

Dessartes must enter the wildlands and retrieve a weapon from the days of
Empire, a weapon that devastated whole continents and brought humanity to
the brink of extinction.

The forces ranged against him are overwhelming, his companions are
untrustworthy. His own loyalties are suspect. But there is no alternative.
Retrive Skyfire, or all humanity become slaves forever.

FTGG is set against an Industrial Revolution background, where science
meets magic. 
Armies battle with musket and cannon as otherworldly creatures stalk the
night.
The fate of humanity hangs in the balance.

....

Comments on this one?
MJD.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 08:40:52 -0500
From: Jeff & Michelle Norton <103010.212@compuserve.com>
Subject: Loren goin' to Texas...

        Loren,

        Congrats and good to see you back in the game biz.

        Now ( on my bad knees, pleading...),

        With you 'inside' SJG, can you see about getting some of the Out-of
Print books redone. Trying to find a copy of GURPS Old West is about as
easy as finding the Ark of the Covanant ( Yea I know it's in Warehouse
23...)

        One word of caution tho, have your escape route planned when the
Secret Service ( we call them the SS in the army :-p) comes back ' just for
a little visit'...
        
        And,  I'll keep the car idleing, ( just quallified EXP with the
M16A2 and M9 last week, Just in case :> )

        ( I got an old CIA 'get outta jail free' card if you need it :) )
        
        Thanks and all the best

        Jeff Norton

        also a lead-pusher  AND trainer of war chihuahuas...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Jan 98 20:14:52 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Dulinor and the plugged Emperor!

On 01/02/98 at 09:14 AM,  "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> said:

>>I'm sure Dulinor would be happy to oblige ...

>One thing that's bothered me for years... Where In The Hell was Strephon's
>IISS Protective Detail??  These guys are supposed to be within a few feet
>of the Emperor's person at all times, and take bullets for him!  did
>Dulinor get to them?  Were they withdrawn because the Emperor was actually
>a clone?

I've wondered the same thing.  Just *how* did Dulinor get his pistol in
there, in the first place?  You'd think no one would be allowed into the
audience chamber armed with a concealed weapon without big, bad armed
guards standing all around.  He must have compromised a *lot* of people for
the assassination to work the way it is described, and have the fleet
assets lined up like he had.  And out of all the people compromised nothing
was leaked to IISS? Hum?  

This *had* to be an IISS inside job! Dulinor was just the trigger man.

Oh, and what kind of pistol did he use?  If we are using T4 combat rules,
it must have been pretty BA to kill 4..or was it 5..people flat-out with
mostly single shots.  Now, if he was using autofire rules...;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 22:30:03 -0800
From: crystal <crystal@postme.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2199

> Can we please postpone this silly subsidized merchant THUDDD design?
> OBVIOUSLY, the Barbie Star Cruiser(tm) line of products are a much more
> pressing need for Traveller players as well as Cleon's Imperium.  ISBA
> needs to get its priorities straight, if you ask me!
> Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
> TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
> Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

Are you kidding? This BSC is the perfect Imperium spy-scout design that
can 
double as a commondo craft.

Btw, on another topic: does anyone have a good wind tunnel simulation
program?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Jan 98 20:30:56 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Project Longbow?

On 01/03/98 at 03:28 PM,  Robin Cantin <rcantin@oricom.ca> said:

>OK, I'm new to the list (hi everyone) and I have a few questions from my
>reading of the Survival Margin supplement for CT. They've probably been
>discussed here before, but since they're not in the "discussed to death"
>section of the FAQ, I'll risk it.

I might be wrong, but here's what I think was going on...

>What the Hell is Project Longbow?

It was an attempt by the Imperium to spy on what the Zhodani were up
to/afraid of toward the galactic core.  I think it was psionic in nature,
so it was able to get data at FTL speeds, something that had always been
impossible previously.

>Yes I know, it's a long-range communication project that was abandoned.

Not exactly abandoned..I don't think.  Either the assassination and
following rebellion shut it down, or what they discovered destroyed it, its
personnel, or convinced the powers that were to boogie out of there.

>Yet obviously Strephon uses it to contact... "an empress"?!?

I don't think Strephon "contacts the Empress", just learns that she/it is
coming. The progress of the "Empress Wave" across Zhodani space (at light
speed or less) is disrupting, if not totally destroying, Zhodani
civilization. How, we don't know.

>And who are Pentecost and the others? What's that thing who's coming? Any
>information in the supplements I didn't buy?

We never really found out what was coming, but it probably was the
destruction of Imperial society as they knew it. What was going to cause
it, how it was going to do it's damage, and what would have been left..or
replace imperial society we never found out.

Theories..everybody has theories, but only the insiders from GDW *knew*..or
maybe *they* didn't know, either. ;->


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 12:02:37 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <edf@atlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Re(2): Horrible realization

Aw!  Mom, he won't play fair!

Snivel, snivel, snivel....


- -----Original Message-----
From: Rob Prior <Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Monday, December 29, 1997 8:09 AM
Subject: Re(2): Horrible realization


>In anticipation of the inevitable requests...
>
>NO, I WILL NOT MODIFY INFINI-V/CSC BY ADDING THE TL21 TECHNOLOGY TO DESOGN
>SANTA'S SLEIGH!!
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:25:41 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Project Longbow?

Moin Robin Cantin,

> What the Hell is Project Longbow?
> Yes I know, it's a long-range communication project that was abandoned. Yet
> obviously Strephon uses it to contact... "an empress"?!?
> And who are Pentecost and the others? What's that thing who's coming? Any
> information in the supplements I didn't buy?

	BTW: Viewing the Wave with Longbow is imposible, if the the Pentecost
	message, that the wave has a 1C closure, is true. Because if the wave
	has 1C closure, effects of the wave would be seen by the longbow
	collectors only together with the arrival of the wave.

	In my private mail about my (un)canon shortbow in the Islands I
	handwaved that the speed of wave is imposibible to measure exactly.
	In my canon its about 1/4 to 1/8th of light speed, but whenever the
	wave rolls over a mass, e.g. a starsystem, the waves speed is measured
	as constant 1C. And about this fact is the Pentecost message about
	Gabriel, which was in my canon a far forward station in the Vargr
	extends to gather first hand experience about the wave.

	Now that I've seen that LB/EW is still a theme of interest for the
	TML audience - my question to the round :

	What is in your opinion about the "real" speed of the wave ?

	- 1C, the wave was detected by accident. Call the placement of the
	  forward stations Herod&Raphael a bad timing. It was imposible to
	  view the wave with Longbow. It was only posible to view that
	  forward stations of Longbow II going offline when hit by the
	  wave.
	- Less than 1C, to be viewed with a longbow like system. The Pentacost
	  message was about research station, gathing "first hand" expirence
	  of how to stand the wave. Knowledge later used in the Avery/CABAL*.

	If the later is true, the JumpStart project had to be started
	after 1115, and therefore the only JumpStart caches will be
	found in Gushemege, where it was posible for the "real" Strephon
	to place them.

By Michael

	*Avery = Geeneered humanoid for high psionic capablilies, as about
		 45% are from Strephons DNA and 45% from Isolante Avery
		 could be considered as the Emperors legitime son.
	*CABAL = Computer Augumented Behavoir ALteration 
	         CABAL is canon in Tansa&Rure HIWG.

	As a funny side note in my canon.  It was first intended to send
	Avery with a Tl16+ high autonomous AI (somethink like the Kinunir)
	ship to ensure that he'll came back. Later a virus infected ship
	was cheaper, and the few Kinu's left are at least known to be as
	insane as most awaken. So it was easier to seach for an awaken
	less insane than a Kinu ;-)

	Placing a players group in this scenario would be of course more
	Paranoia than Traveller - " at first you'll have to sign here that
	you allow that a chip is impanted in you brain, to control you
	emotions and nerve system. They chip will be controled by this
	nice little vampire, just in case of something unusual happen.
	Lord Avery's YN15 has full confidence in the successfull completion
	of the mission " - you know the computer is your friend ;-)

	I prefer to use those enigmas as "side story", e.g. it could be
	posible if one in the group askes around for rumors in the local
	downtown bar, that he'll here a rumor about an enigma. To solve
	an enigma is imho "atshi keshi" (bad taste - in Go) Solving the
	Acients Enigma was imho a bad failure. In Go when you detect an
	atshi it should not be tasted, to taste it at the right time is
	good atshi, to smell the taste the remaining of the game is perfect
	atshi, to taste it to early or to let the smell evaporate is
	atshi keshi ;-)
- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 98 17:23 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Citizen Points

In-Reply-To: <006c01bd18ab$7344b9c0$f310fed0@default>

Richard,

> >Sorry, I didn't make myself very clear - the writer should be
> > allowed to choose how he is paid: cash, or CPs, but at a
> > better rate than if they'd bought them. eg if CP cost $15
> > each, and a writer is owed $30, he could take the money
> > or *3* CP (ie at $10 each).
>  
> I started to ask you why you thought that a writer should get a better break
> than anyone else?  But, I guess that all of us would benefit from the
> writing, so perhaps this suggestion is not out of order.  I guess I am
> exhibiting my herd tendencies.

My thinking was that it would encourage the writer to take the CPs (which cost 
IG nothing) rather than the money, as well as encouraging more people to write 
stuff.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 08:34:58 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Dulinor and the plugged Emperor!

At 08:14 PM 1/3/98 -0600, Eris wrote:

>I've wondered the same thing.  Just *how* did Dulinor get his pistol in
>there, in the first place?  You'd think no one would be allowed into the
>audience chamber armed with a concealed weapon without big, bad armed
>guards standing all around.  He must have compromised a *lot* of people for
>the assassination to work the way it is described, and have the fleet
>assets lined up like he had.  And out of all the people compromised nothing
>was leaked to IISS? Hum?  

I think it was established that it was a Dlani cultural norm to appear
before your lord armed.  The guards were rprobably used to the Archduke
wearing his pistol, and he and Strephon were such good friends...

Reminds me of the old joke about Generals and uniform regulations.. yes,
the are supposed to follow the rules, but who's going to tell a 4-star he's
out of uniform? 

>This *had* to be an IISS inside job! Dulinor was just the trigger man.
>
>Oh, and what kind of pistol did he use?  If we are using T4 combat rules,
>it must have been pretty BA to kill 4..or was it 5..people flat-out with
>mostly single shots.  Now, if he was using autofire rules...;->

IIRC, he used a 10mm Magnum.  I've actually played out this scenario in
playtesting ACQ.  Dulinor has complete surprise, and uses his Action Points
to improve his aim to get triple damage results on Strephon and Iolanthe,
the Aslan ambassador interrupts Dulinor and begins moving towards him, only
to be dropped by one of Dulinor's guards.  Dulinor then splatters the Grand
Princess.  (Damage 4 gun, triple damage result.  17 points of damage after
blowthrough, 17x3= 51 points of damage.  Ouch.)

- --
+--------------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry                 dberry@hooked.net   |
|             http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/             |
+--------------------------------------------------------+
| "In the long run luck is given only to the efficient." |
|     -Helmuth von Moltke, founder, German Imperial Army |
+--------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 08:48:33 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: IISS Protective Detail

At 12:42 AM 1/4/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
>>One thing that's bothered me for years... Where In The Hell was Strephon's
>>IISS Protective Detail??  These guys are supposed to be within a few feet
>>of the Emperor's person at all times, and take bullets for him!  did
>>Dulinor get to them?  Were they withdrawn because the Emperor was actually
>>a clone?
>
>From the various Canon accounts (Rebellion Sourcebook and Digest #9), there
>doesn't seem to have been one, period.  Security is supposed to be provided
>by two honor guards: one drawn from the military services, and one drawn
>from each Archduke's domain.

Digest #9, page 20:

"The Scout Service Imperial Protection Detail has 12-person detachments on
continuous protective duty within sight of the Emperor at all times except
when he is in private chambers.  The detail's chief job is to prevent
assassination using their bodies if necessary.  Each memeber wears cloth
armor under plain civilian clothing and carries a concealed gauss pistol
and short range communicator.  Short barreled automatic gauss carbines
(gauss rifle -1 on the range table) are often carried concealed within
attache cases as well.  Small hand-launched anti-tank/anti-aircraft
missiles are also avalible to the protective detail."

>When Dulinor assasinated Strephon, the military guard was present, but their
>weapons were useless, since they had been issued blanks by a palace armorer 
>under Dulinor's control.  The Domain guard was from Dulinor's own domain, and
>(of course) was comprised only of individuals loyal to Dulinor.  During the
>assasination attempt, the domain guards were tasked with eliminating the
>Emperor's military guards.
>
>The assasination itself was conducted immediately after Strephon greeted
>Dulinor, and therefore at effectively contact range.  Even had there been
>such a detail present, there would have been no way to get into position in
>time.

Yeah, but they could have gotten the Heir to safety.  Along with taking
down Dulinor with extreme predjudice.
>
>It's worth noting that an Aslan ambassador did manage to interpose himself
>between Dulinor and the Princess.  Unfortunately, this only caused Dulinor
>to expend an extra bullet.

- --

+--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x+
| Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net x
x   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x-+
|          Embrace Fascism.          x
x       The uniforms look cool       |
+-x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x-+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:07:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Barbie in Spaaaaace!

> Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 21:41:50 +0800
> From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
> 
> Over on the TravLang list we've been discussing Barbie.

Ah.  The connection is obvious.  Surprised you folks haven't done this
topic to death by now.

> Does she exist in Milieu Zero? 

Of course!  Barbie is Forever!

> What sort of theme sets and outfits does she have?

One for each Traveller char-gen career path...Imperial Navy Barbie comes
with a lovely IN uniform (cut slightly differently from regs), IISS Barbie
comes with whatever clothes they can slap together at the factory that day
plus Barbie's Startown Dream Dive playset, and so forth. 

> What are the different social movements, religions, and terrorist
> organizations that are based on her?  What happened to Ken? 

The Templars hold her image sacred, equating her with Sophia or Barbello (!)
of the Terran gnostics.  Barbie's ecstatic union with Ken dissolves all
existence into the Pleroma.  Or so it is claimed...

Unfortunately, due to a tragic confluence of military and business
factors, manufacturing rights for Barbie ended up with a Sylean
corporation (Zhunastu Enterprises) while those for Ken ended up in the Old
Earth Union (later Solomani Sphere).  Most of subsequent history in this
part of the galaxy consists of open and clandestine efforts to reunite
these two licenses under a single banner.

> In a sort of seizure or fit or something I accidentally designed a
> Barbie-sized starship (using Andy Akin's bodacious FFS2 spreadsheet), which
> I unfortunately didn't keep a copy of here at my apartment.  But just you
> wait.  Once I get back to the office on Tuesday, it's coming to a TML near
> you.  (Batteries not included.)

Does it hinge open down the middle? :)

> Can we please postpone this silly subsidized merchant THUDDD design?
> OBVIOUSLY, the Barbie Star Cruiser(tm) line of products are a much more
> pressing need for Traveller players as well as Cleon's Imperium.  ISBA
> needs to get its priorities straight, if you ask me!

Nah, we'll do this for THUDDD 9.  Who needs a stupid lab ship when you can
have a tiny shocking-pink vinyl starship piloted by a girl with Bimbo-9?

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:19:19 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Barbie's Starship

Just wanted to clarify -- the character appearing in this post as { ? } was
originally the superscript trademark symbol.  The wonders of 7-bit gating,
or however that works.

Although I do like how, by appearing as a question mark, it sort of gives
that rising Valleygirl inflection to everything?  You know what I mean?
Neat-O!?


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:47:01 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <edf@atlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Formulas

>  Hmmm, what else can I recall off the top of my head?  Ah yes, in another
>gaming suppliment from FGU (name eludes me at this point, but it was a
>brown two book set) lists the ability of planets to be a Hydrogen based
>atmosphere as being based on the planet's mass plus distance from primary
>along with the primary's luminosity

You're thinking of _Other Suns, Book 2: Starships & World Building_
by Neil Shapero, page 39, section 12.3.2 "Planetary Atmospheres".

Eric F.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:46:55 -0500 (EST)
From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Re: Rodent Liquifaction Devices
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:33:52 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Metrics aren't Intuitive?  

From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>


>"Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> wrote
>
>> From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
>>
>> >>> Does a pound of silver weigh the same
>> >>> as a pound of iron?
>>
>> >>You're joking?
>>
>> No, I wasn't joking.
>>
>> >>And which falls to the earth faster?
>>
>> Essentially they will fall at the same rate; however,
>> if you're splitting hairs, the pound of silver will hit
>> the ground first (even though it weighs less).
>
>> The subject under discussion when the question
>> was posed was one of Measures and Standards.
>> The key word here is Standards.  There is a
>> different standard for precious metals (like silver)
>> than there is for common substances (like iron
>> and feathers).  So, the two questions about
>> comparable weights are fundamentally different.
>
>Even if we are talking about bars of the same mass there are
>many other complications at work.
>
>If you wish to be truly pedantic...

I like pedantic as well as the next guy, but you seemed to have missed the
point.  Or are you simply ignoring it?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:19:12 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Project Longbow?

Eris Reddoch wrote:
[snip]
>We never really found out what was coming, but it probably was the
>destruction of Imperial society as they knew it. What was going to cause
>it, how it was going to do it's damage, and what would have been left..or
>replace imperial society we never found out.

That's quite obvious, although the imperial-corporate media machine doesn't
want you to know about it.  The Progressive Union of Sayat Spofulams is
advancing from its secret batcaves in the galactic core in order to enable
a radical transcendence of the primitive, crypto-feudal society of the
Third Imperium, depose the parasitic patriarchal pathetically-armed pigdog
Peerage, and liquidate the exploitative corporate classes whose tepid
commodity fetishism was once used as a pretext to impede our ancestors'
technological self-actualization.

The so-called "Empress" is merely a typical Imperial obfuscation of Comrade
Spofulam THX1138, a psionic artillery spotter for the advancing fleets.
(If you can furnish proof that you are over 18 years of age, you may be
permitted to know what the "rod" she holds actually is.)

The long-oppressed populace of the former Zhodani Consulate are joyously
throwing off the yoke of their turbaned exploiters and joining in the
struggle against the reactionary interstellar aristo-syndicalist cliques.
Most members of the previously co-opted psionic janissary caste now
understand the genuine socio-historical conditions and form a valued part
of the popular movement.

(Rumors that the Vargr have been suborned with advanced milkbone technology
and antimatter-powered neuro-mechanical implants which scratch behind their
ears _just right_ are (all too obviously) transparent, desperate lies of
the cash-driven, big-money-owned imperial propaganda agencies.)

While dismantling the bloated carcass of the Imperium's power structures,
military agitators and cultural laborers will continue to bring the next
stage of sentient evolution to the bandit fiefdoms of the Aslan warlords
and the fascist prison-state of the Solomani Sphere, and begin dialectical
incorporation of the relatively advanced Hiver Federation.  The
Spofulam-Sayat Front has plans for a celebratory barbeque to be held
throughout liberated space, of which the K'kree shall be primary
components.

PUSS further wishes to congratulate Virus for boldly striking the first
blow in the struggle against interstellar imperialism, while sadly
acknowledging certain excesses of revolutionary fervor on the part of our
"silicomrades".

>Theories..everybody has theories, but only the insiders from GDW *knew*..or
>maybe *they* didn't know, either. ;->

No matter how wrong and stupid the Virus may have been, the whole TNE thing
is made worthwhile to my mind by the Empress Wave element.  I'd pay hefty
sums of dollars for a final TNE sourcebook explaining what [would have]
happened next.  Whereas it would take a lot of cash to pay me just to own
_First Survey_.

Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 98 20:26 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Starship Troopers

Went to see it yesterday. 
Bloody hell!
That must be the most violent/gory film I've ever seen! How the hell 
that got through with only a 15 certificate I'll never know.
Do the military's tactics make the Charge of the Light Brigade look 
like a carefully thought-out surgical strike? Absolutely.
Is it a Nazi recruiting film? No, it's pretty obvious we're not 
supposed to approve of the Fascist society.
Is it pro-war? Definitely not. War is hell.
Is it made in the style of a WW2 war movie with nice touches of black 
humour and some of the best FX you've ever seen? Yup.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:59:05 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <edf@atlantic.net>
Subject: Re: The Kessel run

>The Kessel run is based on a group of three massive black holes that orbit
>each other. The term of running the kessel run in however many parsecs
>meant how close to the event horizon of the black hole they could get. It
>was not meant as a time reference. This was in the Jedi Academy trilogy.


The Kessel Run, is described in great detail in A.C. Crispin's book _The Hutt
Gambit_.  In addition to the black holes mentioned above, the ship had to traverse
yet another unrealistically dense asteroid field just the other side of those
black holes.  According to the book, it was (somehow) faster to go through
the space occupied by the black holes, and the asteroid field than it was to
plot hyperspace  jumps around it.

I don't recommend reading Star Wars books for their technical content, it's all
very vague.

Eric F.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2200
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Monday, January 5 1998      Volume 1997 : Number 2201



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Barbie in Spaaaaace!
Re: TL9 PAW
Re: Starship Troopers
Sample NPAW's and Questions
Did you say rodents?
Black Curtain
re: Project Longbow?
Re: IISS Protective Detail
Black Curtain
Black Curtain
Announcing the Telstar XII
Testing (was: Rodent Liquifaction Devices)
Re: Rodent Liquifaction Devices (2nd try)
Jumping away from pirates
Re: Metrics aren't Intuitive?  
Barbie's Own Particle Accelerator Rifle

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:15:53 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Barbie in Spaaaaace!

Craig Berry wrote:

>
>> What sort of theme sets and outfits does she have?
>
>One for each Traveller char-gen career path...Imperial Navy Barbie comes
>with a lovely IN uniform (cut slightly differently from regs), IISS Barbie
>comes with whatever clothes they can slap together at the factory that day
>plus Barbie's Startown Dream Dive playset, and so forth.

The thought of making actual Travellerized Barbies has surfaced on
TravLang... including, ideally, one in authentic Vilani costume with a
speech chip to teach Vilani pronunciation and useful phrases.  (That'll
show those lame-o Klingon poofters!)

If Barbie is now manufactured by Zhunastu Enterprises, is her product line
geared towards promoting the Sylean noble lifestyle as the "high culture"
of the new Imperium?  Training all those little girls to think that the
Imperial aristcracy are just, totally, like, the BEST! ?

>> What are the different social movements, religions, and terrorist
>> organizations that are based on her?  What happened to Ken?
>
>The Templars hold her image sacred, equating her with Sophia or Barbello (!)
>of the Terran gnostics.  Barbie's ecstatic union with Ken dissolves all
>existence into the Pleroma.  Or so it is claimed...

I hesitate to ask -- but only briefly: what's the esoteric significance of
Barbie and Ken being non-anatomically correct (between the legs, I mean)?

(Mr. Erickson, I beg you to keep your absolutely disgusting suggestions to
yourself!)

>Unfortunately, due to a tragic confluence of military and business
>factors, manufacturing rights for Barbie ended up with a Sylean
>corporation (Zhunastu Enterprises) while those for Ken ended up in the Old
>Earth Union (later Solomani Sphere).  Most of subsequent history in this
>part of the galaxy consists of open and clandestine efforts to reunite
>these two licenses under a single banner.

The Third Imperium's geniune purpose in foundation, then, is to find the
missing Groom?

Yes, to heck with all that "alchemical wedding" claptrap.  Bring on the
nanotech nuptials!

>> Can we please postpone this silly subsidized merchant THUDDD design?
>> OBVIOUSLY, the Barbie Star Cruiser(tm) line of products are a much more
>> pressing need for Traveller players as well as Cleon's Imperium.  ISBA
>> needs to get its priorities straight, if you ask me!
>
>Nah, we'll do this for THUDDD 9.  Who needs a stupid lab ship when you can
>have a tiny shocking-pink vinyl starship piloted by a girl with Bimbo-9?

Really??  <caper with glee>


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 22:51:16 +0000
From: Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: TL9 PAW

At 08:04 PM 1/4/98 +0000, Ian wrote:
>
>More thoughts about lo-tech system defense.
>
>A TL9 32 m long, 4 m diameter PAW takes up 937 m3, masses 1412 tons, costs
>MCr 47 and takes up 12.57m2 of surface area. It puts out 1024 megajoules to
>38 000 kilometers, which translates to a damage value of 156 (i.e. it
>punches 7.5 cm of superdense). The beam pointer is a 90 000km model.
>
>It requires an input of 5120 megajoules, so a 90 megawatt power plant will
>allow a shot every minute.
>
>Now, on one hand this is appallingly short range. On the other hand, it
>isnt that bad for TL9 - better than most sane and reasonable TL9 lasers
>manage, for example.
>
>I could imagine a number of worlds with these guarding military bases on
>airless moons, or with these in orbit, encased by some ungodly thickness of
>composite laminates.
>
>Ian Whitchurch 
>
>

Monitors anyone? Collect some nickel/iron rocks, about 3-5 kilometers across
and pepper the surfaces with these things. Bury the power plants deep in the
nickel/iron bodies and place them in stable orbits about a planet, or at
trojan points. Great for keeping people out OR IN.
  
Garry

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:45:52 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Starship Troopers

If you want to know what the great one really meant.. Read the Book..

BTW That book was want started my traveller career 17 years ago.

(wow. Must be getting old)

 
> Went to see it yesterday. 
> Bloody hell!
> That must be the most violent/gory film I've ever seen! How the hell 
> that got through with only a 15 certificate I'll never know.
> Do the military's tactics make the Charge of the Light Brigade look 
> like a carefully thought-out surgical strike? Absolutely.
> Is it a Nazi recruiting film? No, it's pretty obvious we're not 
> supposed to approve of the Fascist society.
> Is it pro-war? Definitely not. War is hell.
> Is it made in the style of a WW2 war movie with nice touches of black 
> humour and some of the best FX you've ever seen? Yup.
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
>  "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"
> 
************************************************************************
tykoduk@sprynet.com       http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    Bagpipes (n): an octopus wearing a kilt.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Jan 98 17:08:58 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Sample NPAW's and Questions

Hi everybody!

I spent the afternoon playing with FFS's PAW design sequences, and produced
several NPAW's.  I've posted some of the stats for two of them below,
please look at them and tell me if they look right.  

==============================================================
NPAW-40 

For use on small warships like Corvettes, SDB's and Destroyer Escorts.

TL 12  Tunnel Length=40m  Diameter=5m  DE=800Mj  CM=1.0

Effective Range = 187,500km   

Damage Values under different assumptions:

1.  TNE type system
        a.  Beam Pointer 180,000 (6x30,000)km
        
        b.  SR = BP then double for each additional range

    DV = 6:147 12:74 24:37 48:18     (USP: 4/2/1/0)

2.  T4/TNE hybrid system 
        a.  Beam Pointer 180,000 (6x30,000)km
        
        b.  Fixed Ranges 1/5/10/20/40 hexes (max DV at BP)
        
    DV = 1:147 5:147 10:88 20:44 40:22  (USP: 4/4/3/2/1)
    
3.  T4 system (I don't really know how to rate them here)
        a.  Beam Pointer 50,000km
        
        b.  Range Bands: Planetary (50,000), Far Orbit (500,000)
        
    DV = Planetary:530 Far Orbit:53 <--- these don't look right to me

==============================================================
NPAW-100 

For use on medium warships, like Frigates, Destroyers and Light Cruisers.
     
TL 12  Tunnel Length=100m  Diameter=12.5m  DE=5,000Mj  CM=1.0

Effective Range = 2,929,688km   

Damage Values under different assumptions:

1.  TNE type system
        a.  Beam Pointer 300,000 (10x30,000)km
        
        b.  SR = BP then double for each additional range

    DV = 10:3,453 20:1,726 40:863 80:432 <--these can't be right!
    
                                    (USP: 17/14/11/9)
                                    
2.  T4/TNE hybrid system 
        a.  Beam Pointer 300,000 (6x30,000)km
        
        b.  Fixed Ranges 1/5/10/20/40 hexes (max DV at BP)
        
    DV = 1:3453 5:3553 10:3453 20:1726 40:863  (USP: 17/17/17/14/11)
    
3.  T4 system (I don't really know how to rate them here)
        a.  Beam Pointer 500,000km
        
        b.  Range Bands: Planetary (50,000), Far Orbit (500,000)
        
    DV = Planetary:20716 Far Orbit:2072 <--these can't be right!
==============================================================

Is the MAXIMUM DV based on the damage that would be done at Actual
Effective Range, and DV at any shorter range can't exceed that DV?  

If that's the case then the revised numbers for the two PAWs would be:

NPAW-40
    TNE.DV       6:141 12:74 24:37 48:18
    
    TNE.Fixed DV 1:141 5:141 10:88 20:44 40:22
    
    T4.DV Planetary:141 Far Orbit:53 
    
NPAW-100    
    All DV = 354 at all listed ranges
        
This makes more sense to me, but imposing this sort of limit is not in FFS
anywhere that I can find.


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:01:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Larry Hadley <lhadley@peterboro.net>
Subject: Did you say rodents?

> 
> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:46:55 -0500 (EST)
> From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
> Subject: Re: Rodent Liquifaction Devices
> 
> VG86ICAgTXIuIFL2ZGTkcnL2a2sgU3BvZnVsYW0gRXNxLg0KICAgICAgRGlyZWN0b3Igb2Yg
> U2FsZXMsIENvcmUgU3Vic2VjdG9yDQogICAgICBQcmVjaXNpb24gU2NpZW50aWZpYyBJbnN0
[snip]

   Does this mean we're all hamsters? ;)


- -- DLH                                 lhadley@peterboro.net

homepage: http://text.peterboro.net/~lhadley/index.html
bio: http://text.peterboro.net/~lhadley/Profile.html

  "Fight to fly, fly to fight, fight to win." - TOPGUN motto.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:05:34 -0500
From: Robin Cantin <rcantin@oricom.ca>
Subject: Black Curtain

Hello guys.

Thanks for all those who gave me some answers to the Longbow and Wave
mysteries.

On page 79 of the TNE big book, I see an ugly "black curtain" covering
space from Core to beyond Empty Quarter.What's this?
All the info I found so far (don't remeber where) describes something akin
to a black hole or at least having an event horizon.

Robin

"J'ai compris qu'il est des hommes, peut-=EAtre la plupart des hommes, pour
qui il n'est pire tourment que la v=E9rit=E9"

- - Martin Gray, Au Nom de Tous les Miens

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:58:11 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: re: Project Longbow?

>If the later is true, the JumpStart project had to be started
>	after 1115, and therefore the only JumpStart caches will be
>	found in Gushemege, where it was posible for the "real" Strephon
>	to place them.

Well Strephons letter saying he'll approve Jumpstart, in accordance w/
Pentecost's recommendation.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:58:17 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: IISS Protective Detail

>>When Dulinor assasinated Strephon, the military guard was present, but their
>>weapons were useless, since they had been issued blanks by a palace armorer
>>under Dulinor's control.  The Domain guard was from Dulinor's own domain,
and
>>(of course) was comprised only of individuals loyal to Dulinor.  During the
>>assasination attempt, the domain guards were tasked with eliminating the
>>Emperor's military guards.
>>
>>The assasination itself was conducted immediately after Strephon greeted
>>Dulinor, and therefore at effectively contact range.  Even had there been
>>such a detail present, there would have been no way to get into position in
>>time.
>
>Yeah, but they could have gotten the Heir to safety.  Along with taking
>down Dulinor with extreme predjudice.

Not if the Illelish Guard has killed them all.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 98 03:43 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Black Curtain

Moin Robin Cantin,

> On page 79 of the TNE big book, I see an ugly "black curtain" covering
> space from Core to beyond Empty Quarter.What's this?
> All the info I found so far (don't remeber where) describes something akin
> to a black hole or at least having an event horizon.

	Jep its an "event horizon" send a NPC ship there, and it will
	certainly NOT come back, send a player character ship and the
	stakes rise to imposible that the ship will come back.

	During the hard times the different areas evolved. Most systems
	in the wilds, outlands and even frontier had been back to Tl9-
	before virus arived. Only the save areas had maintained their
	status quo. So only the former save areas now show significant
	virus population. Core is even more extreme. First it was the
	largest save area, and second there is a permanent war between
	the Puppetiers with a steady feed of stupid Prophets and more
	stupid Doomslayers visiting the area. As the war now lasts for
	more than 70 years, I would also asume that some shipyards are
	continuing Lucans production, perhaps its even likely that some
	Naval Bases are still functional. Virus was intended to suicide,
	but the code was not stable. Between 079-1130 and 243-1130 the
	code switched to the slayer type in most infects - Dulinor had
	the historical oportunity to gather a first hand experience of
	that evolution - later the higher strains showed to be more
	successfull, but in core with permanent war only Puppetiers
	can survive. A lonly Parent or Peacemaker, will become slayed
	in the Ghulag, and anything below a Puppetier will become
	reinfected to fight for one of the sides.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 22:11:32 -0600 (CST)
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Black Curtain

The Black Curtain surrounds the release point of the Virus that destroyed
the Third Imperium in TNE.  From Survival Margin (p. 89):

"One other area is deserving of mention.  That is the 'Black Curtain'
surrounding the former area of Lucan's faction.  Running roughly along the
curve of his frontier in 1130, this line has also been called the 'Event
Horizon', because, like the space-time boundary around a black hole, there
is no two-way contact of any kind across this line.  Nothing ever seems to
come out from inside the line, and no ship that has crossed has been known
to return."

___________

Hello guys.

Thanks for all those who gave me some answers to the Longbow and Wave
mysteries.

On page 79 of the TNE big book, I see an ugly "black curtain" covering
space from Core to beyond Empty Quarter.What's this?
All the info I found so far (don't remeber where) describes something akin
to a black hole or at least having an event horizon.

Robin

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 23:33:41 +0000 (GMT)
From: Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com>
Subject: Announcing the Telstar XII

From:
The Laser Communications Division,
Postmark Design Bureau
"When your message must get through"

Do pirates ignore your requests to "Please Leave"?
Are you concerned by your SDB's having a response time of over
1 hour to help?

Then what you need is an array of Telstar XII Communications
Satellites orbitting your world.

The Telstar XII can send a message of your choice out to 100
diameters of a Size A planet in only 3 seconds.

The sensor array, combined with a 500,000km beam pointer ensures that
the message will be directed accurately at your recipient - there
is no need to worry that it will be misdirected to a third party.

To ensure that the message arrives in the same condition that it
leaves, we have used a 6.3m diameter focal array which, with
gravitational assistance, ensures no dispersion in the first
1,000,000km.

Since pirates can be very lax about listening out for messages, ours
is encoded using 10 coaxial lasing elements, of 400MJ each. So you
can ensure that the message will reach the pirate captain, no mater
what stands in the way (even several decks).

In case they don't get your message the first time, it's repeated
every 2.25 seconds.

"Telstar XII - One day all planets will be protected this way" :)

**************************************************************

Morning Star,
Telstar XII class Communications Satellite (FF&S v2)
Designed by Postmark Design Bureau,
Laser Communications Division

Statistics
Tons:                 700std ( SL Thin Disc Simple )
Volume:             9,800m3
Mass (L/C):        23,719t/22,441t
Dimensions:            49.9m x 49.9m x 5.0m
Size:                   8
Crew:               36/36
Passengers High/Med:  0/0
Passengers Low:         0
Troops/Science:       0/0
Frozen Watch:         0(0 group)
Cargo:                 25std (1/0)
Cost:                 988.871 MCr
Maintenance Points: 3,072
Tech Level:            12

Electronics
Controls: Dynamic, High automation.
1xFibComp (CM:0.35 CP:2.86). 

Bridge
Communications:
    1xRadio Rec. (1,000AU, 0.02MW).
    1xRadio      (1,000AU, 0.20MW).
    3xLaser      (1,000AU, 0.00MW).
    1xHeavy Laser Comm (+4) 1/14-14-13-10 [10,800/50-50-42-21] (LR) 
Sensors:
    1xPEMS  (13.5 [16mkm],  0.01MW). 
    1xAEMS  (12   [1.6mkm],25.00MW).
    1xLIDAR (15.5 [5mkm],   6.00MW). 
Survey/Science: 
ECM:
    1xRadio Jammer (1,000AU, 0.40MW).
    1xDecp. Jammer (11, 0.25MW).
    1xPas.  Jammer (14, 0.10MW). 

Signatures:
    Vis:-0.5, IR:0.5 (0.0 at 920MW), Act:0.5, Neu:1, Grav:1

Weaponry
    None, we're a communications company not an arms manufacturer,
    so your Ethical Investments are safe with us :)

Performance
0                Jump
0.5/0.5          Maneuver (/Thruster:294MW)
0.5/0.5          Contra-grav (200MW)
320kph/320kph    Atmosphere (/Crus:240kph/240kph)
26               Power (/Fus:5,600MW,1.0 /Fus+:3,600MW,24.0hr)
60.0             Fuel
0/30/6/0/0       Accomodations 
576              Life Sup. (/Ty:Ba,Mn)
1                G-Comp 
0                ESA
0                Sandcasters
0                Damper Turrets
100              Damper Screen (4MW)
100              Meson Screen (4MW)
0                Force Field
0                Gravtics
40 [200]         Armor
13               Structure

Features
 9xAirlock
 1xSickbay         (8   std ea.)
 3xShip's locker   (0.35std ea.)         
 1xArmory          (0.04std ea.)
 2xGym             (2.5 std ea.)         
18xOrdinary Galley (Cap:0)

Small Craft

Backups
Drives: 
Screens: 
Communications: 
Sensors: 
Survey/Science: 
ECM: 
Power & Fuel: 

Crew Details
1xMnvr. 22xEngr. 2xMain. 3xGunn. 2xScrn. 5xCmnd. 1xStew.

*******************************************************************
Notes:
Thanks to Andy Atkins for his excellent spreadsheet.

The food supply is 16 weeks. You could have a cheaper satelite
without the manoeuvre, but this satelite can land on the planet
for resupply without the planet having to have a high tech or decent
starport.

There is a 230MW power shortfall, but this doesn't matter because
the Telstar XII is supposed to remain in orbit and not use its contra
grav whilst operating.

The main problem with this design is surface area - even with a thin
disc design. All you really need is Fusion+ for the "Laser Comms",
since you don't use it all the time. It also limits the amount of
contra-grav.

Using Fusion and Thrusters account for almost half the total cost.

I don't know if 800 ROF is really needed, but it does improve the 
factor:)

A solution to the power problem is being considered by the
Emerging Products Division
"Microwaving half baked ideas from across the Imperium".

At TL 13, a non grav focused X-ray laser only needs to be 10m in
diameter to reach 1,000,000km, but with only a third the power
so the satelite cost is halved.

On the other hand, a grav focused X-ray laser with a 7 m focal
diameter will have an effective range of over 780 million km
(ie from the Sun to Jupiter) - If you could just build a big enough
beam pointer...

- - ----------------------------------------------------------
  Philk@btinternet.com (don't blame BT for any of this, they only pay me:)
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 02:09:26 -0500 (EST)
From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Testing (was: Rodent Liquifaction Devices)

Apologies for my previous message, which seems somehow to have been
converted into base64. Weird. I suspect my ISP.

I also note that my Dec 20 message - on the (truly bizarre) subject of
tobacco enemas at the court of the Sun King - didn't appear until a full
twelve days after I posted it.

Has anyone else been experiencing problems such as this? I've noted a few
recent posts about old messages cropping up, for instance. Is there a
problem with the MPGN server?

Hopefully intelligible,

 + GMG +

    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
        "...a starship, a robot, two sex toys, and a gun:
      the raw, heady essence of interstellar civilization."
                        --Kenji Schwarz

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 02:11:02 -0500 (EST)
From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Re: Rodent Liquifaction Devices (2nd try)

To:   Mr. Roddarrokk Spofulam Esq.
      Director of Sales, Core Subsector
      Precision Scientific Instruments Division
      Famille Spofulam LIC
      Sylea/Core


Dear Sir,

In a recent Net posting, you wrote:

>        Just four words:
>
>        Famille Spofulam.
>
>        Mouse Blender.
>
>        That is all I have to say on the Piracy debate, thank you.


I have an inquiry regarding the aforementioned Rodent Liquifaction
Instrument. What is the maximum size of rodent this device is capable of
rendering? Our specimens are of, shall we say, Unusual Size. If its
capabilities meet our needs, we might well be interested in ordering two or
more for our BioResearch Unit.

Your attention is most appreciated.

Sincerely,

  Dr. Ilbren Dinaskir
      Ling Chair of Archaeology
      Faculty of Solomani Studies
      Sylean Institute of Knowledge
      Sylea/Core 

    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
        "...a starship, a robot, two sex toys, and a gun:
      the raw, heady essence of interstellar civilization."
                        --Kenji Schwarz

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 23:57:38 +0000 (GMT)
From: Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com>
Subject: Jumping away from pirates

For all those of you who think that you just jump from a pirate before
100 dia, remember that you need 64MJ/m3/parsec stored in the capacitors.
Most civilian ships require about 1 hour to generate this and don't have
the power to generate it any quicker.

Note that FFS (p12) implies that once the power is stored, you can't hang
around and wait (since there is a one hour time limit), so the ship
must jump.

ie, once the jump cycle starts, you can predict within a few thousand km
where the ship will be when it jumps (and when).

Just aborting the jump cycle has problems, because all that energy is
going to melt something if you don't use it to enter jumpspace.

- - --
  Philk@btinternet.com (don't blame BT for any of this, they only pay me:)
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 23:42:25 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@ALASKA.NET>
Subject: Re: Metrics aren't Intuitive?  

> From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> wrote

> From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>

> >> >>> Does a pound of silver weigh the same
> >> >>> as a pound of iron?
> >> >>And which falls to the earth faster?
> >>
> >> Essentially they will fall at the same rate; however,
> >> if you're splitting hairs, the pound of silver will hit
> >> the ground first (even though it weighs less).

> >Even if we are talking about bars of the same mass there are
> >many other complications at work.
> >If you wish to be truly pedantic...

> I like pedantic as well as the next guy, but you seemed to have missed the
> point.  Or are you simply ignoring it?

Yes of course, wasn't it obvious ?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 18:43:22
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Barbie's Own Particle Accelerator Rifle

4 cm long, 0.5 cm diameter, 500 joules output.

Tunnel Area = 0.0000196 m2
Tunnel Volume = 0.0000008 m3
Tunnel Mass = 0.0000006 t = 6 grams
Effective Focal Area = 0.0000588
Effective Tunnel Length = 0.01 m

Theoretical Effective Range = 5.8 cm in Standard Atmosphere, 58 cm in Vacuum
Damage Value = 0.05, translates to 1 dice in personell terms

500 joule of output requires 2.5 kilojoules of accumulators, or 0.000125 m3
of accumulator, massing 0.00025 t (250 grams). It takes up 125 ccs (6 cm by
5 cm by 3.2 cm).

ROF is one shot ever 36 seconds, so we need to deliver 140 watts of energy
per second for 36 seconds.

10 grams of TL10 36 seconds output battery delivers 375 watts per second
for 36 seconds, so we add a 10 gram/5 cc battery pack to Barbie's kit in a
cute belt pack. This will provide three shots.

A beam pointer is ommitted. Let the little tykes learn how to eyeball their
shots. 

Total mass is 266 grams. Total cost is ummm, call it Cr 50 with marketing
etc costs added in (dont ask how little it costs. Really).

The kit is available in duck-egg blue of Barbie Hot Pink, and can be
accessorised by the Barbie's Own BattleDress line.

Barbie's Own Fusion Gun is planned for a Fall release.

Ian Whitchurch

PS Roderick, if Mattell's lawyers come knocking, it's Kenji's fault.

PPS Kenji, can we convince Babes in Toyland to sell our Third Imperium
Barbie line ???

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2201
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Monday, January 5 1998      Volume 1997 : Number 2202



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Dulinor and the plugged Emperor!
Re: Black Curtain
Re: Black Curtain
Re: (Fwd) Barbie's Starship (2nd try)
Re: Project Longbow? (2nd try)
Coalition ships (resent)
Re: Did you say rodents?
Re: Formulas
Re: Barbie in Spaaaaace!
Re: Dulinor and the plugged Emperor!
re: Dulinor and the plugged Emperor!
Re: Aslan Honor
Re: Coalition ships (resent)
Re: Local Loss
Re: Barbie in Spaaaaace!
RE: Barbie in Spaaaaace!
longbow
Traveller Books in Mich.
RE: Barbie in Spaaaaace!
Re: Formulas
Re: Starship Troopers
re: The Kessel Run

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 09:16:32 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Dulinor and the plugged Emperor!

If I remeber the Rebellion Source Book..

He used his Cermoinial TL-9 Mag Revolver, that every noble carries at 
all times. In MT it does a damage of 3, at at that range it would be 
a simple task, easly allowing a +2 or +4 success garnering at least  
6 to 12 points of damage agenst an unarmored foe. (as this happened 
during MT, I think that those rules would have applied) - Eh?

> I've wondered the same thing.  Just *how* did Dulinor get his pistol in
> there, in the first place?  You'd think no one would be allowed into the
> audience chamber armed with a concealed weapon without big, bad armed
> guards standing all around.  He must have compromised a *lot* of people for
> the assassination to work the way it is described, and have the fleet
> assets lined up like he had.  And out of all the people compromised nothing
> was leaked to IISS? Hum?  
> 
> This *had* to be an IISS inside job! Dulinor was just the trigger man.
> 
> Oh, and what kind of pistol did he use?  If we are using T4 combat rules,
> it must have been pretty BA to kill 4..or was it 5..people flat-out with
> mostly single shots.  Now, if he was using autofire rules...;->
> 
> Eris
> -- 
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
************************************************************************
tykoduk@sprynet.com       http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    Concerto (n): a fight between a piano and a pianist.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 02:03:52 +0000
From: "Will" <panzer@mail.sisna.com>
Subject: Re: Black Curtain

> On page 79 of the TNE big book, I see an ugly "black curtain" covering
> space from Core to beyond Empty Quarter.What's this?
> All the info I found so far (don't remeber where) describes something ak=
in
> to a black hole or at least having an event horizon.
> 
Elan (2302) Mina (2401) und Solarda (2403) sind Virus-kontrollierte Zust=E4=
nde und Satelliten des
schwarzen Vorhangs. Elan und Solarda, zus=E4tzlich zu den Wiedergewinnungs=
ites f=FCr Vampire
versendet im Service zu den Flotten des Vorhangs, sind auch Exporteure der
shipboundmenschensklaven. Die Einwohner von Mina geflohen erfolgreich in d=
en Untergrund und
vermieden bis jetzt solche schreckliche Schicksale. 

F=FCr mehr INFOGOTO http://www.chara.gsu.edu/~lewis/bard/opal/opal10102.ht=
ml 

Hoffen Sie, da=DF dieses hilft 


Traveller Homepage http://www.sisna.com/users/panzer/t4.htm
ICQ:2739566

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 02:07:16 +0000
From: "Will" <panzer@mail.sisna.com>
Subject: Re: Black Curtain

> Hello guys.
> 
> Thanks for all those who gave me some answers to the Longbow and Wave
> mysteries.
> 
> On page 79 of the TNE big book, I see an ugly "black curtain" covering
> space from Core to beyond Empty Quarter.What's this?
> All the info I found so far (don't remeber where) describes something akin
> to a black hole or at least having an event horizon.
> 
Elan (2302) Mina (2401) and Solarda (2403) are Virus-controlled states and satellites of the Black
Curtain. Elan and Solarda, in addition to salvage sites for Vampire ships in service to the fleets of
the Curtain, are also exporters of shipbound human slaves. The inhabitants of Mina have
successfully fled into the underground and have, to date, avoided such terrible fates. 

For more Info. goto http://www.chara.gsu.edu/~lewis/bard/opal/opal10102.html 

Hope this helps 

Traveller Homepage http://www.sisna.com/users/panzer/t4.htm
ICQ:2739566
 
The Official Firebase Games Web Site
http://www.sisna.com/users/panzer/
Sister Site
Cicero's Lair
http://freespace.virgin.net/em.bis/mark.htm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 01:17:07 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Barbie's Starship (2nd try)

Just wanted to clarify -- the character appearing in this post as { ? } was
originally the superscript trademark symbol.  The wonders of 7-bit gating,
or however that works.

Although I do like how, by appearing as a question mark, it sort of gives
that rising Valleygirl inflection to everything?  You know what I mean?
Neat-O!?


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 01:17:00 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Project Longbow? (2nd try)

Eris Reddoch wrote:
[snip]
>We never really found out what was coming, but it probably was the
>destruction of Imperial society as they knew it. What was going to cause
>it, how it was going to do it's damage, and what would have been left..or
>replace imperial society we never found out.

That's quite obvious, although the imperial-corporate media machine doesn't
want you to know about it.  That's why the TML server suppressed this
message the first time I sent it.  The Progressive Union of Sayat Spofulams
is advancing from its secret batcaves in the galactic core in order to
enable a radical transcendence of the primitive, crypto-feudal society of
the Third Imperium, depose the parasitic patriarchal pathetically-armed
pigdog Peerage, and liquidate the exploitative corporate classes whose
tepid commodity fetishism was once used as a pretext to impede the
P.U.S.S.'s ancestors' technological self-actualization.

The so-called "Empress" is merely a typical Imperial obfuscation of Comrade
Spofulam THX1138, a psionic artillery spotter for the advancing fleets.
(If you can furnish proof that you are over 18 years of age, you may be
permitted to know what the "rod" she holds actually is.)

The long-oppressed populace of the former Zhodani Consulate are joyously
throwing off the yoke of their turbaned exploiters and joining in the
struggle against the reactionary interstellar aristo-syndicalist cliques.
Most members of the previously co-opted psionic janissary caste now
understand the genuine socio-historical conditions and form a valued part
of the popular movement.

(Rumors that the Vargr have been suborned with advanced milkbone technology
and antimatter-powered neuro-mechanical implants which scratch behind their
ears _just right_ are (all too obviously) transparent, desperate lies of
the cash-driven, big-money-owned imperial propaganda agencies.)

While dismantling the bloated carcass of the Imperium's power structures,
military agitators and cultural laborers will continue to bring the next
stage of sentient evolution to the bandit fiefdoms of the Aslan warlords
and the fascist prison-state of the Solomani Sphere, and begin dialectical
incorporation of the relatively advanced Hiver Federation.  The
Spofulam-Sayat Front has plans for a celebratory barbeque to be held
throughout liberated space, of which the K'kree shall be primary
components.

PUSS further wishes to congratulate Virus for boldly striking the first
blow in the struggle against interstellar imperialism, while sadly
acknowledging certain excesses of revolutionary fervor on the part of our
"silicomrades".

>Theories..everybody has theories, but only the insiders from GDW *knew*..or
>maybe *they* didn't know, either. ;->

No matter how wrong and stupid the Virus may have been, the whole TNE thing
is made worthwhile to my mind by the Empress Wave element.  I'd pay hefty
sums of dollars for a final TNE sourcebook explaining what [would have]
happened next.  Whereas it would take a lot of cash to pay me just to own
_First Survey_.

Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 07:07:40 -0500
From: Robin Cantin <rcantin@oricom.ca>
Subject: Coalition ships (resent)

(This is the second time I send this message, as it didn't make it through
the first time. There may be sometjing wrong with the server, Glenn)

Another question from the newbie...

In TNE Path of Tears sourcebook is described the entire RC fleet, but there
are several desings I'm unfamiliar with. Could someone give me at least the
tonnage of the Valor-class Corvette, the Petty-class Merchant, the Vixtrix,
the Fusilier-class destroyers and Leviathan-class assault transport?

Robin


Webmaster of the Direct Democracy Pages
http://www.oricom.ca/~rcantin/AIntro.html
Les Pages Democratie Directe
http://www.oricom.ca/~rcantin/Introduction.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 02:27:21 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Did you say rodents?

In mail you write:

>> 
>> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:46:55 -0500 (EST)
>> From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
>> Subject: Re: Rodent Liquifaction Devices
>> 
>> VG86ICAgTXIuIFL2ZGTkcnL2a2sgU3BvZnVsYW0gRXNxLg0KICAgICAgRGlyZWN0b3Igb2Yg
>> U2FsZXMsIENvcmUgU3Vic2VjdG9yDQogICAgICBQcmVjaXNpb24gU2NpZW50aWZpYyBJbnN0
> [snip]
>
>    Does this mean we're all hamsters? ;)

Hush, Penfold! 

:-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 02:25:17 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Formulas

In mail you write:

>>  Hmmm, what else can I recall off the top of my head?  Ah yes, in another
>>gaming suppliment from FGU (name eludes me at this point, but it was a
>>brown two book set) lists the ability of planets to be a Hydrogen based
>>atmosphere as being based on the planet's mass plus distance from primary
>>along with the primary's luminosity
>
> You're thinking of _Other Suns, Book 2: Starships & World Building_
> by Neil Shapero, page 39, section 12.3.2 "Planetary Atmospheres".

Gee, does it allow for things like the *close* in gas giants the
astronomers have found?

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 02:22:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Barbie in Spaaaaace!

In mail Kenji writes:

>>The Templars hold her image sacred, equating her with Sophia or Barbello (!)
>>of the Terran gnostics.  Barbie's ecstatic union with Ken dissolves all
>>existence into the Pleroma.  Or so it is claimed...
>
> I hesitate to ask -- but only briefly: what's the esoteric significance of
> Barbie and Ken being non-anatomically correct (between the legs, I mean)?
>
> (Mr. Erickson, I beg you to keep your absolutely disgusting suggestions to
> yourself!)

I'm not going to suggest anything. I will point out that you might want
to consider the Skopty sect in Russia (and other, similar movements) as
a possible explanation. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 02:00:27 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Dulinor and the plugged Emperor!

In mail you write:

> I've wondered the same thing.  Just *how* did Dulinor get his pistol in
> there, in the first place?  You'd think no one would be allowed into the
> audience chamber armed with a concealed weapon without big, bad armed
> guards standing all around.

Who says it was *concealed*? 

In a semi-feudal society, bearing weapons in the presence of a superior
noble is a "perq". And pistols might actually be *part* of the
"uniform" so as to *show* that one is so trusted and honored.

Remember, this is *not* current "Western" culture. The rules *are*
different. 

> He must have compromised a *lot* of people for the assassination to
> work the way it is described, and have the fleet assets lined up like
> he had.  And out of all the people compromised nothing was leaked to
> IISS? Hum?

Again, due to the way bond and obligations run in a fuedal
society/structure, there may have been little *need* to compromise
people. 

Two often overlooked features of many fuedal societies:

1. People in fealty to you are *not* necessarily in fealty to the
   people you are in fealty to. That is, if you are a sworn vassal of
   X, *your* sworn vassals owe him no service, nor does he owe them
   anything. You can order your vassals to do things for him and to
   follow orders from him, but they remain *your* men.

2. fuedal obligations/duties cut both ways. You may owe services to X,
   but *he* owes protection and support to you. If he fails in his
   duties to you, you are free of your oathes and obligations.

So it's quite possible that Dulinor merely looked for folks who felt
that Strephon wasn't living up to his end of the bargain. In that case,
the only thing they did "wrong" was to fail to publicly proclaim the
breach before acting against him.

> This *had* to be an IISS inside job! Dulinor was just the trigger man.

Or Strephon just misjudged how far he could push things without vassals
deciding he'd forsworn himself.

There are decided *advantages* to a society based on vassalage (for
one, you in effect have a *contract* with your "lord" stating what you
owe him and what he owes you. None of this faceless bureaucrats
deciding if you deserve something or if you should or shouldn't do
something) 

But as pointed out above, it can have it's problems as well.

Even if Imperial society isn't all that "feudal", I think it'd be great
letting players run into a planet that *was* run that way. Large chunks
of "law" as we see it, wind up as part of the "contract". So just
because you see someone doing something in public doesn't mean that
*you* can. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:48:04 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Dulinor and the plugged Emperor!

eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch) wrote:

>I've wondered the same thing.  Just *how* did Dulinor get his pistol in
>there, in the first place?  You'd think no one would be allowed into the
>audience chamber armed with a concealed weapon without big, bad armed
>guards standing all around.

IIRC he didn't conceal it. It was an honour weapon - part of his dress and
worn blatently.
>Oh, and what kind of pistol did he use?

IIRC Magnum revolver

>If we are using T4 combat rules,
>it must have been pretty BA to kill 4..or was it 5..people flat-out with
>mostly single shots.  Now, if he was using autofire rules...;->

Ahh! But we're using MT rules here ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 13:50:16 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Aslan Honor

At 09:37 1997-12-19 -0700, Chris Griffen wrote:
>I think that 99 percent of Aslan "duels" are of the "war of insults"
>variety. Now, a war of insults need not be, "Aw, your mama sleeps in her
>kitty litter!" I think they're more like boisterous intellectual debates,
>perhaps somewhat akin to Crossfire on CNN. The "duelist" who is the most
>clever will win when the less clever duelist recognizes defeat.

I think some of the list members can understand how this would work ...

No harm intended :-)


Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm  (Link=F6ping, Sweden)
E-mail: jenry023@student.liu.se
UIN: 3844745   Get ICQ at http://www.mirabilis.com
Homepage: http://spacejens.ml.org
- ---------------------------------------------
"And I froze there, crouching in the small of plastique from the bolts,
because that was when the Fear found me, really found me, for the first=
 time"

Hinterlands, William Gibson
- ---------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 06:29:22 +0000
From: "Will" <panzer@mail.sisna.com>
Subject: Re: Coalition ships (resent)

> 
> Another question from the newbie...
> 
> In TNE Path of Tears sourcebook is described the entire RC fleet, but there
> are several desings I'm unfamiliar with. Could someone give me at least the
> tonnage of the Valor-class Corvette, the Petty-class Merchant, the Vixtrix,
> the Fusilier-class destroyers and Leviathan-class assault transport?

Merchant, Subsidized - Petty Class	

General DataDisplacement: 390/400	Hull Armor:	10Length: 44 
meters	Volume:5460/5600m3Price: MCr 87.53	Target Size: 
SConfiguration: Cylinder AF	Tech Level: 12Mass(Loaded/Empty): 
3906.28/2371.69
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Missile Corvette, Valor-Class 	

General DataDisplacement: 400	Hull Armor: 64Length: 44 meters	Volume: 
5600m3Price: MCr 242.09	Target Size: SConfiguration: Cylinder SL	Tech 
Level: 15Mass(Loaded/Empty): 3313.21/3104.31
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Well this is all the stats I have from  Traveller Navigator  
Spinward Marches.
So did Path of Tears leave out the tonnage?

Traveller Homepage http://www.sisna.com/users/panzer/t4.htm
ICQ#2739566

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 16:04:57 +0100
From: "V.A.G" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Local Loss

Glenn Hoppe wrote:
> 
> Just thought I'd share a little bad news.
> 
> A couple days ago, our largest FLGS burned to the ground. *sniff*
> 
> My mind reels at the vast selection of role-playing materials, boxed
> wargames, comics and cards -- some irreplaceable and out of print -- that
> have been lost.
> 
> I had been considering mentioning on this list that there were a few DGP
> products on the shelves (Flaming Eye, Starship Operators Manual). Now, I
> guess, the issue is moot.
Hey, i guess my copies of these two books just got more valuable ;-) (As
if i collected them for money value!)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:58:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Barbie in Spaaaaace!

> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:15:53 +0800
> From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
>
> If Barbie is now manufactured by Zhunastu Enterprises, is her product line
> geared towards promoting the Sylean noble lifestyle as the "high culture"
> of the new Imperium?  Training all those little girls to think that the
> Imperial aristcracy are just, totally, like, the BEST! ?

Precisely!  Barbie is yet another weapon in the semiotic war being waged
by the Imperium against proponents of less hierarchically ossified models
of government.  She is the Fusion+ of the memosphere, indoctrinating
innocent children into the cult of aristocracy under their parents' very
noses and with their unknowing complicity.  Fiendish indeed... 

Needless to say, this is a deep and twisted perversion of Barbie's true
purpose as understood by the Templars and the (deeply hidden) Arcadian
Gnostic sects scattered throughout human space.  In point of fact, the
Templars and the Gnostics also have rather differing opinions on her
purpose, which partly accounts for the Templars' failure to smite down
Cleon I for sullying Barbie's holiness with commercial and imperialistic
schemes. (Another reason is that the Templars well understand the ancient
philosophical principle "there's no such thing as bad publicity.") 

> >> What are the different social movements, religions, and terrorist
> >> organizations that are based on her?  What happened to Ken?
> >
> >The Templars hold her image sacred, equating her with Sophia or Barbello (!)
> >of the Terran gnostics.  Barbie's ecstatic union with Ken dissolves all
> >existence into the Pleroma.  Or so it is claimed...
> 
> I hesitate to ask -- but only briefly: what's the esoteric significance of
> Barbie and Ken being non-anatomically correct (between the legs, I mean)?

Ah, a penetrating question.  [cue rim-shot] As you no doubt are aware, the
Gnostics (and their descendant sects, such as the Albigensians, Cathars,
et al) believe the material world to be a creation of the Demiurge, an
evil, egotistical, self-absorbed demon masquerading as the One God.  As
such, sexual procreation is intrinsically wrong, as it merely results in
more souls being mired in this evil world of matter.  When Barbie and Ken
ecstatically unite, their union is not one of flesh, but of Pneuma.  The
dolls faithfully record this esoteric doctrine. 

Again, the Templars feel rather differently about this issue, but Gnostics
controlled the doll industry on late pre-stellar Terra.  Such are the
vagaries of occult history.

> (Mr. Erickson, I beg you to keep your absolutely disgusting suggestions to
> yourself!)

And I beg you to ignore Kenji's plea! :)

> >Unfortunately, due to a tragic confluence of military and business
> >factors, manufacturing rights for Barbie ended up with a Sylean
> >corporation (Zhunastu Enterprises) while those for Ken ended up in the Old
> >Earth Union (later Solomani Sphere).  Most of subsequent history in this
> >part of the galaxy consists of open and clandestine efforts to reunite
> >these two licenses under a single banner.
> 
> The Third Imperium's geniune purpose in foundation, then, is to find the
> missing Groom?

Precisely.

> Yes, to heck with all that "alchemical wedding" claptrap.  Bring on the
> nanotech nuptials!

The Templars have very emphatically *no* comment on this wild, unfounded
raving by Mr. Schwarz.  Fnord.

> >> Can we please postpone this silly subsidized merchant THUDDD design?
> >> OBVIOUSLY, the Barbie Star Cruiser(tm) line of products are a much more
> >> pressing need for Traveller players as well as Cleon's Imperium.  ISBA
> >> needs to get its priorities straight, if you ask me!
> >
> >Nah, we'll do this for THUDDD 9.  Who needs a stupid lab ship when you can
> >have a tiny shocking-pink vinyl starship piloted by a girl with Bimbo-9?
> 
> Really??  <caper with glee>

I am *sooooo* tempted...

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 10:16:27 -0600
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com>
Subject: RE: Barbie in Spaaaaace!

On Sunday, 04 January 1998 01:16, kenji@accessone.com
[SMTP:kenji@accessone.com] wrote:
> Craig Berry wrote:
> 
> >
> >> What sort of theme sets and outfits does she have?
> >
> >One for each Traveller char-gen career path...Imperial Navy Barbie
> >comes
> >with a lovely IN uniform (cut slightly differently from regs), IISS
> >Barbie
> >comes with whatever clothes they can slap together at the factory
that
> >day
> >plus Barbie's Startown Dream Dive playset, and so forth.
>

One of the pleasures of having a four-and-a-half year old niece is
buying toys for her.  Before Christmas, my wife and I were in the local
megasized Toys-Ya-Us and found a Barbie outfit (one of those cards with
only clothes on it, but no doll) that consisted of a khaki jacket, hat,
shorts and other various safari gear.  It stuck me at once - add an IISS
starburst and you would have 'Scout Service Barbie.'

Hmm..The Toys-Ya-Us is on the way home..

(Besides, my niece is a good kid - she went to GenCon when she was two
and got her own dice there.)

Actually, I want 'Vargr Captive Barbie' and 'VaccSuit Ken'.


- -Vanya                                         UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ---------------- Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future
Meyers-Briggs personality type:ENTJ          | vanya@partyline.net
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." | dmoody@bridge.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:43:35 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: longbow

Ok...  i ididn't finish that last one... : )  Strephon's letter is dated
365-1103 that he would approve Operation Jumpstart, which was proposed by
Pentecost.  How long would it have taken to implement?  Who knows?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:14:07 -0800 ( PST)
From: jwbrewer@ucsd.edu (James W Brewer)
Subject: Traveller Books in Mich.

I found, while visting in Grand Rapids Mich, a copy of the original
Traveller hard bound book in good but not mint condition at the Argos Book
Store on Lakeshore Dr. There was also a good collection of T4 books and
several TNE books plus a wide assortment of new and used RPG books of
several different systems.  I'm reading a book "The Torch of Honor" by Roger
Macbride Allen published by Baen as part of a dual novel volume named Allies
and Aliens" that I also picked up at the same time.  It does a very good job
of showing tech level 9 space flight using fusion torches, missles and
lasers.  You have to be very careful about your fuel and a lot of fighters
are lost (hit the atmosphere, disapear into space, and are shot up when no
longer able to maneuver).  It also show why you want to stay away from each
other after a ship passes through a exhaust flame.

                     James W. Brewer
                     Univ. of Calif. at San Diego

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 11:30:55 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: RE: Barbie in Spaaaaace!

At 10:16 AM 1/5/98 -0600, you wrote:

>One of the pleasures of having a four-and-a-half year old niece is
>buying toys for her.  Before Christmas, my wife and I were in the local
>megasized Toys-Ya-Us and found a Barbie outfit (one of those cards with
>only clothes on it, but no doll) that consisted of a khaki jacket, hat,
>shorts and other various safari gear.  It stuck me at once - add an IISS
>starburst and you would have 'Scout Service Barbie.'

Be very afraid.  We have costumer friends who do strange things to Barbie
dolls (the photos of "Barbie's House of Lesbian Leather" are a scream.)

Last year, they brought "Barbi-yon 5" dolls to BayCon.  Barbie dolls
dressed as characters from B5.. the Kosh doll even had a sound chip!

I will inform them of this thread, and start plotting.  I may have them
ready by GenCon.

- --
+-------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry        dberry@hooked.net |
|       http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
+-------------------------------------------+
| "The concentration of troops can be done  |
|         fast and easy, on paper."         |
|            -Field Marshal Radomir Putnik  |
+-------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 16:15:13 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: Formulas

Hello Eric,
  The formula from OTHER SUNS, from what I understand, takes into account
the escape velocity of the planet in question, and takes into account the
temperature of the planet in question with respect to the "hydrogen" gas
escaping.  How "accurate" it is, I don't know, but when cross checking it
against TRAVELLER 2300 AD, it does tally well with what GDW says should be
a gas giant, and what the calculated value says it should be.  <Grin>
  That is one reason why I am looking to use it in the program I wanna
write...

     Hal

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 98 21:22 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Starship Troopers

In-Reply-To: <199801042249.OAA27230@m9.sprynet.com>

Tsykoduk,

> If you want to know what the great one really meant.. Read the Book..

It's on my 'books to buy if I ever read all the books I've got *now*' 
list.

> BTW That book was want started my traveller career 17 years ago.
>  
> (wow. Must be getting old)

Tell me about it :-(
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:21:18 +0000
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: re: The Kessel Run

edgar@beckett.rmaonline.net (Mr. Whipple) writes:

>In a Star Wars novel whose name I forget, the Kessel system and planet
>could only be reached by threading a tortuous path among several
>highly dangerous, closely spaced stellar phenomena.  One could reduce
>transit time by navigating closer to the dangerous bodies, thus
>reducing the twistiness of one's path, but this made the task much
>more dangerous.
>
>I extrapolated from this basically what Richard Flores is thinking.
>The better your navigation is, the shorter would be your total
>distance travelled in visiting and leaving the planet. On the other
>hand, piloting and the fineness of your ship's tune would limit just
>how close a shave you can survive.


hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale) adds:

>   A nice bit of handwaving to cover Lucas' mistake.  Logical, but it
>still doesn't change the fact that the units were originally confused
>though....

Just in case anyone want to follow this up (or otherwise), I just happen to

have recently read the book in question:

Jedi Search by Kevin Anderson (Part 1 of the Jedi Academy Trilogy)

I quite liked it as a bit of handwaving (but then I appear to be one of the
 few who could be [just about] persuaded by the M0 Campaign's
 rationale on law level in the data), however Mr Hale is quite right, as I
understood it, *originally* it was just an error.

HTH

tc

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2202
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 6 1998      Volume 1997 : Number 2203



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Formulas
Re: Barbie Stuff
Mayday !?!
Re:: Citizens Points
Classic Ship Design System
Re: Starship Troopers
Re: Barbie Stuff
Re: Barbie in Spaaaaace!
Re: Barbie in Spaaaaace!
Re: Barbie in Spaaaaace!
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2201
Re: Cylons in TNE
Re: Starship Troopers
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2200
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2200
RE: Barbie in Spaaaaace!
Re: Formulas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 98 13:09:44 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Formulas

On 01/05/98 at 02:25 AM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:

>> You're thinking of _Other Suns, Book 2: Starships & World Building_
>> by Neil Shapero, page 39, section 12.3.2 "Planetary Atmospheres".

>Gee, does it allow for things like the *close* in gas giants the
>astronomers have found?

If it does, it would have been villified when it was published because such
gas giants were considered impossible at that time. ;->  I don't think
Accrete produces them up close either, does it?  

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 17:53:46 -0500
From: "Chris Cox" <chriscox@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Barbie Stuff

Suz forwarded the following from Kenji Schwarz:
>I've assumed that Barbie? and her friends (sold separately) are 1/10 human
>height, and thus occupy 1/1000 the volume.
Actually Barbie, along with other 11 1/2" fashion dolls and 12" poseable
action figures, are 1/6 scale not 1/10. Sorry, but your just going to have
to go back to the drawing board and start over 8^)

and from Ian Whitchurch
>Subject: Barbie's Own Particle Accelerator Rifle
>
>4 cm long, 0.5 cm diameter, 500 joules output.


4 cm long and your calling this a rifle?  The barrel on my 12" fully
poseable Princess Leia figure's blaster is about 7 cm with a barrel length
of about 5 cm.

I think it fairly obvious, that despite having achieve a mastery of FF&S
designing, you all still have a lot to learn about Barbie 8^)

Chris "The toy junkie" Cox
(chriscox@ix.netcom.com)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:05:54 -0800
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
Subject: Mayday !?!

I'm looking at the old Mayday game (with an eye of updating the system to
T4), and I've come across some inconsistancies that I'd like to run by the
group to see if I'm making some large error in my thinking...

The game uses a time scale of 1 turn = 100 min = 6000 sec, and a hex scale
of 1 light sec = 3.0 x 10^8 m. They allow each G (=approx. 10 m/s^2) of
accelleration to alter the future position of the ship 1 hex. However,
going back to the old physics books, delta x = (1/2)at^2 going solely on
accelleration. Plugging in the numbers gives delta x for 1G =1.8 x 10^8, or
roughly half of what's needed.

Now if we change the time to reflect current T4 starship combat turns,
things get even worse. Change your hex scale to 1/10th of a light second
(the minimum range for any weapon in Starships) and the time scale to 10
min = 600 sec (the Standard T4 starship combat turn). Plugging in the
numbers at this scale gives a delta x for 1G = 1.8 x 10^6, compared to a
3.0 x 10^7 m hex; only 1/20th of what's needed.

Now the rub... Something needs to change fairly drastically to bring things
back into the realm of playability, either:
a) turn length (approx. 40 min. turns gives a delta x = 1 hex = 3.0 x
10^7), allowing a ship to fire multiple times per movement (4 to be exact).
b) hex scale (approx. 1/200th of a light sec, which allows for some wasted
energy), but would necessitate some sort of compensation for scale at long
ranges, because at this scale for a hex, long ranged weapons span a
whopping 1600 hexes (which I really doubt anyone has the space for on their
dining room table). Two possibilities here:
	1) use a duel scale system similar to Starfire by TFG
	2) keep track of initial ranges and closure on paper, allowing for
firing each turn, and only putting things on the map when they get to a
"reasonable" distance.

Personally I'm for option (A), but I'm not sure how to work out the firing
problem, particularly with missile volleys, as one turn's missile fire
effectively quadruples the incoming swarm. Potentially this could be solved
by having an "A, B, C, & D" firing phase in each turn, so missiles fired in
phase B won't arrive at the target ship until phase B of the turn that they
enter the ship's hex, allowing point defense to fire at each phase's
incoming nasties.

So the real question is which do YOU prefer.

If you're only voting, you can send me private email (there's no need to
clutter up the TML with that), but if you've found some horrid error in my
logic, please allow me to look the fool in front of everyone. ;-)

Schoon
schoon@aimnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:01:57 EST
From: Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com>
Subject: Re:: Citizens Points

	Here's some other ideas on Citizens Points.
	If points are given for works in a publication, the points could be allocated
by the readership reviews.
	Secondly, different Orders could be set up where the points could or must be
spent (for instance, for writers, an order could be set up called Order of the
Ostrich or Quill or such, the points gained would represent there status in
that organization. Others could be set up for players (at cons/stores), gms
(at cons/stores).
	What orders existed in Traveller (for example, maybe the Brothers of Varian
are an example if I remember correctly). What about similar orders for other
Races, what could be created for them (let's say I don't want my persona to be
a K'kree)? What about the posibility of multiple personas?
	What about getting Traveller's Aid?

	Other ideas?

Bryan
Order of the Manipulators........

------------------------------

Date: 05 Jan 1998 19:15 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Classic Ship Design System

Gentle Travellers,

I would like to see a CSDS -- the Classic Ship Design System.
Taking components most likely to be used in a civilian vessel
in Milieu 0, build a system that looks like that used in Classic
Traveller or High Guard... preferably CT!

Simple, quick, few details, no mess.  Has anyone tried to do
this?  Shall I?

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:33:01 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Starship Troopers

Accually, I would push it to the top of your list. That (IMVVHO) is 
probally one of the best works of SF out there... It touches on 
several nerves.. and really had a lot to say about where we have been 
going. It was scary to read it again (for the first time in the below 
mentioned time <shudder>) and realise how right on he really was 
about where we were and still are going.

And it has a couple of really cool scenes with barbie in it.

;)

Cya l8tr


> > If you want to know what the great one really meant.. Read the Book..
> 
> It's on my 'books to buy if I ever read all the books I've got *now*' 
> list.
> 
> > BTW That book was want started my traveller career 17 years ago.
> >  
> > (wow. Must be getting old)
> 
> Tell me about it :-(
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
>  "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"
> 
************************************************************************
tykoduk@sprynet.com       http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

186,000 Miles Per Second;
Not only a good idea, it's the law!

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 01:49:18 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Barbie Stuff

At 17:53 1998-01-05 -0500, you wrote:
>I think it fairly obvious, that despite having achieve a mastery of FF&S
>designing, you all still have a lot to learn about Barbie 8^)

Does that mean that the next item of purchase would be some kind of Barbie
doll instead of another RPG supplement ?

What is the core product of the Barbie line ?

What supplements are recommended for beginners ?


Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm  (Link=F6ping, Sweden)
E-mail: jenry023@student.liu.se
UIN: 3844745   Get ICQ at http://www.mirabilis.com
Homepage: http://spacejens.ml.org
- ---------------------------------------------
"And I froze there, crouching in the small of plastique from the bolts,
because that was when the Fear found me, really found me, for the first=
 time"

Hinterlands, William Gibson
- ---------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:58:14 EST
From: Ithklur <Ithklur@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Barbie in Spaaaaace!

In a message dated 98-01-05 14:27:52 EST, you write:

<< Actually, I want 'Vargr Captive Barbie' and 'VaccSuit Ken'. >>

I'll be looking for "Solomani Party Skipper," "Sword World Skipper," and "AAB
Researcher Barbie."

Ithklur

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 19:15:11 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Barbie in Spaaaaace!

At 07:58 PM 1/5/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-01-05 14:27:52 EST, you write:
>
><< Actually, I want 'Vargr Captive Barbie' and 'VaccSuit Ken'. >>
>
>I'll be looking for "Solomani Party Skipper," "Sword World Skipper," and "AAB
>Researcher Barbie."

I have "Barbie's Templar Ancient Dig Playest", but I can't tell you were I
got it.

I want:  'Dlanni Barbie', complete with ceremonial Magnum revolver, 'Daryen
Skipper', and 'NPC Ken' (he dies early in every play session)
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 22:26:12 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: Barbie in Spaaaaace!

>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
>Last year, they brought "Barbi-yon 5" dolls to BayCon.  Barbie dolls
>dressed as characters from B5.. the Kosh doll even had a sound chip!

If you can pry the secrets of creating sound chips for Barbies out of them,
I'd be very interested ...  ;-)


                                        --- Derek Wildstar

wildstar@qrc.com -------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 21:10:44
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2201

At 04:03 AM 5/01/98 -0500, you wrote:

>Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 22:51:16 +0000
>From: Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net>
>Subject: Re: TL9 PAW
>
>At 08:04 PM 1/4/98 +0000, Ian wrote:
>>
>>More thoughts about lo-tech system defense.
>>
>>A TL9 32 m long, 4 m diameter PAW takes up 937 m3, masses 1412 tons, costs
>>MCr 47 and takes up 12.57m2 of surface area. It puts out 1024 megajoules to
>>38 000 kilometers, which translates to a damage value of 156 (i.e. it
>>punches 7.5 cm of superdense). The beam pointer is a 90 000km model.
>>
>>It requires an input of 5120 megajoules, so a 90 megawatt power plant will
>>allow a shot every minute.
>>
>>Now, on one hand this is appallingly short range. On the other hand, it
>>isnt that bad for TL9 - better than most sane and reasonable TL9 lasers
>>manage, for example.
>>
>>I could imagine a number of worlds with these guarding military bases on
>>airless moons, or with these in orbit, encased by some ungodly thickness of
>>composite laminates.
>>
>>Ian Whitchurch 
>>
>>
>
>Monitors anyone? Collect some nickel/iron rocks, about 3-5 kilometers across
>and pepper the surfaces with these things. Bury the power plants deep in the
>nickel/iron bodies and place them in stable orbits about a planet, or at
>trojan points. Great for keeping people out OR IN.
>  
>Garry

They will be vulnerable to Meson Guns and nukes, but not a lot else.

Mind you, it'll be a shock if they run into a meson gun ship with enough
range and agility to stay out of trouble from the PAWs.
>

>From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
>Subject: Sample NPAW's and Questions
>
>Hi everybody!
>
>I spent the afternoon playing with FFS's PAW design sequences, and produced
>several NPAW's.  I've posted some of the stats for two of them below,
>please look at them and tell me if they look right.  
>
>==============================================================
>NPAW-40 
>
>For use on small warships like Corvettes, SDB's and Destroyer Escorts.
>
>TL 12  Tunnel Length=40m  Diameter=5m  DE=800Mj  CM=1.0
>
>Effective Range = 187,500km   
>
>Damage Values under different assumptions:
>
>1.  TNE type system
>        a.  Beam Pointer 180,000 (6x30,000)km
>        
>        b.  SR = BP then double for each additional range
>
>    DV = 6:147 12:74 24:37 48:18     (USP: 4/2/1/0)
>
>2.  T4/TNE hybrid system 
>        a.  Beam Pointer 180,000 (6x30,000)km
>        
>        b.  Fixed Ranges 1/5/10/20/40 hexes (max DV at BP)
>        
>    DV = 1:147 5:147 10:88 20:44 40:22  (USP: 4/4/3/2/1)
>    
>3.  T4 system (I don't really know how to rate them here)
>        a.  Beam Pointer 50,000km
>        
>        b.  Range Bands: Planetary (50,000), Far Orbit (500,000)
>        
>    DV = Planetary:530 Far Orbit:53 <--- these don't look right to me
>

The way I read it, this PAW will punch AV 147 at the lesser range of it's
short range or effective range, then falls is effective output according to
(range/effective range)^2.
Pump effective output into the normal 2.5 * (effective output)^0.5 formula.

>==============================================================
>NPAW-100 
>
>For use on medium warships, like Frigates, Destroyers and Light Cruisers.
>     
>TL 12  Tunnel Length=100m  Diameter=12.5m  DE=5,000Mj  CM=1.0
>
>Effective Range = 2,929,688km   
>

I read a 5000 megajoule weapon as doing DV 350, falling off as you go
beyond the design range.


>Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 23:33:41 +0000 (GMT)
>From: Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com>
>Subject: Announcing the Telstar XII
>
>From:
>The Laser Communications Division,
>Postmark Design Bureau
>"When your message must get through"
>
>Do pirates ignore your requests to "Please Leave"?
>Are you concerned by your SDB's having a response time of over
>1 hour to help?
>

*giggle* love it :)

>
>**************************************************************
>
>Morning Star,
>Telstar XII class Communications Satellite (FF&S v2)
>Designed by Postmark Design Bureau,

>
>Weaponry
>    None, we're a communications company not an arms manufacturer,
>    so your Ethical Investments are safe with us :)

>40 [200]         Armor
>13               Structure

Armour isnt thick enough ... the Pirates could get stroppy, and try to
interrupt the conversation, as it were.

With 0.5 gees, the Telstar cant get out of the way awfully well.

>Thanks to Andy Atkins for his excellent spreadsheet.
>
>The food supply is 16 weeks. You could have a cheaper satelite
>without the manoeuvre, but this satelite can land on the planet
>for resupply without the planet having to have a high tech or decent
>starport.
>
>There is a 230MW power shortfall, but this doesn't matter because
>the Telstar XII is supposed to remain in orbit and not use its contra
>grav whilst operating.

Also you can just cut the RoF on the lasers.

>
>The main problem with this design is surface area - even with a thin
>disc design. All you really need is Fusion+ for the "Laser Comms",
>since you don't use it all the time. It also limits the amount of
>contra-grav.

Batteries me boy, batteries :) Lots of power when you need it, no surface
area demand :)

>
>Using Fusion and Thrusters account for almost half the total cost.

Have you tried retrofitting Heplar into the design ?

>
>I don't know if 800 ROF is really needed, but it does improve the 
>factor:)

I really, really dislike this aspect of Traveller combat. If a hit from a
400 MJ laser doesnt get thru the armour, then twenty hits from a 400 MJ
laser wont, either.

Good stuff in short :) I *like* the design :)

>  Philk@btinternet.com (don't blame BT for any of this, they only pay me:)
>  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 20:58:31 +0000 (GMT)
From: Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Cylons in TNE

- - --
  Philk@btinternet.com (don't blame BT for any of this, they only pay me:)
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 04 JAN 1998 22:14:34 +0000 (GMT)
From: Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com>
To: Traveller Mailing List <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Re: Cylons in TNE

Harold D. Hale writes:

>Douglas E. Berry writes:
>
<snip>

>>Dr. Who:  Great concept, wonderful actors, stories covering everything from
>>light comedy to the deaths of major characters (who didn't cry at the end
>>credits of the final episode of Earthshock, with Adric's broken pin..) Well
>>done on a miniscule budget.
>
>   We disagree here.  Enemies (particularly arch villians) were
>cardboard cutouts.  Originial Star Trek series done on probably about
>the same amount of money and had much better special effects, and more
>believable gadgets.  The protrayal of Dr. Who depended largely on the
>person playing the part (they were definately not equal).

Sorry but the info that I have is a bit different:

The Star Trek Pilot ("The Cage") cost $630,000
(source "The Star Trek Compendium")
or $686,000 (source "Star Trek Movie Memories").

The Dr Who Pilot cost =A32,143(episode 1); =A34,307; =A32,181 and =A32,316.
Plus =A34,328 for the Tardis interior sets.
(Source "The Handbook - The First Doctor")

Indeed I seem to recall calculating that, allowing for exchange rates,
the first three years of Dr Who (126 episodes) cost less than the
Star Trek pilot.

I also recall reading somewhere that the per episode cost of Battlestar
Galatica was >$1million due to the cost of the effects.

<snip>
- - --
  Philk@btinternet.com (don't blame BT for any of this, they only pay me:)
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:14:15 -0600
From: "John D. Muncy" <jmuncy@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Starship Troopers

> 
> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:45:52 +0000
> From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
> Subject: Re: Starship Troopers
> 
> If you want to know what the great one really meant.. Read the Book..
> 
Deffinitely-excellent story with a good political background!
>
> BTW That book was want started my traveller career 17 years ago.
> 
> (wow. Must be getting old)
> 
I can relate to that-I remember when the "little black books" were on the
shelves,
in droves!
I think that I'll go have my milk and prunes now...

Best Regards,
John Muncy

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:16:15 -0600
From: "John D. Muncy" <jmuncy@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2200

> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:21:38 -0000
> From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
> Subject: An Alternative....
> 
> Or is this version better?
> 
> 
> .....................................
> The nations are marching.
> 
> 
> All the world falls before the conquerors as the Empire of Vildor strives
> to bring back the ancient ways, when all humanity were slaves to powerful
> sorcerors.
> 
> The final battleground is Torgin, a weak border state. The Torginese resist
> with sabre and musket, but they cannot survive. This time the Empire will
> last forever.
> 
> The fate of nations rests in the hands of Dessartes, a cavalry officer who
> was once a hero.
> 
> Dessartes must enter the wildlands and retrieve a weapon from the days of
> Empire, a weapon that devastated whole continents and brought humanity to
> the brink of extinction.
> 
> The forces ranged against him are overwhelming, his companions are
> untrustworthy. His own loyalties are suspect. But there is no
alternative.
> Retrive Skyfire, or all humanity become slaves forever.
> 
> FTGG is set against an Industrial Revolution background, where science
> meets magic. 
> Armies battle with musket and cannon as otherworldly creatures stalk the
> night.
> The fate of humanity hangs in the balance.
> 
> ...
> 
> Comments on this one?
> MJD.

Actually, I preferred the first one. It was definitely an attention
grabber! If I was in a book store reading the backside, I'd take it to the
front counter for purchase.
This version is good, but your first one was better, IMHO (again, I
emphasize "IMHO"). BTW, it sounds like a good story, when would you be
completing it?

Best Regards,
John Muncy

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:16:15 -0600
From: "John D. Muncy" <jmuncy@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2200

> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:21:38 -0000
> From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
> Subject: An Alternative....
> 
> Or is this version better?
> 
> 
> .....................................
> The nations are marching.
> 
> 
> All the world falls before the conquerors as the Empire of Vildor strives
> to bring back the ancient ways, when all humanity were slaves to powerful
> sorcerors.
> 
> The final battleground is Torgin, a weak border state. The Torginese
resist
> with sabre and musket, but they cannot survive. This time the Empire will
> last forever.
> 
> The fate of nations rests in the hands of Dessartes, a cavalry officer
who
> was once a hero.
> 
> Dessartes must enter the wildlands and retrieve a weapon from the days of
> Empire, a weapon that devastated whole continents and brought humanity to
> the brink of extinction.
> 
> The forces ranged against him are overwhelming, his companions are
> untrustworthy. His own loyalties are suspect. But there is no
alternative.
> Retrive Skyfire, or all humanity become slaves forever.
> 
> FTGG is set against an Industrial Revolution background, where science
> meets magic. 
> Armies battle with musket and cannon as otherworldly creatures stalk the
> night.
> The fate of humanity hangs in the balance.
> 
> ...
> 
> Comments on this one?
> MJD.

Actually, I preferred the first one. It was definitely an attention
grabber! If I was in a book store reading the backside, I'd take it to the
front counter for purchase.
This version is good, but your first one was better, IMHO (again, I
emphasize "IMHO"). BTW, it sounds like a good story, when would you be
completing it?

Best Regards,
John Muncy

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:37:09 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: RE: Barbie in Spaaaaace!

Danny Moody wrote:
>One of the pleasures of having a four-and-a-half year old niece is
>buying toys for her.  Before Christmas, my wife and I were in the local
>megasized Toys-Ya-Us and found a Barbie outfit (one of those cards with
               ^^^^^

<VBG> And I thought I and my vict^h^h friends were the only ones who called
it that! :)

[snip]
>Actually, I want 'Vargr Captive Barbie' and 'VaccSuit Ken'.

The former just isn't likely to happen -- besides obvious difficulties with
the Fifth Prime Directive of T4, there aren't going to be the accessories
and outfits necessary to keep marketing happy.

Or wait.  Who says the Vargr don't have a sense of poetic justice?
 Barbie's Dream Chokechain Collar!
 Barbie's Super Food and Water Bowl!

Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:55:03 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Formulas

In mail you write:

> On 01/05/98 at 02:25 AM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:
>
>>> You're thinking of _Other Suns, Book 2: Starships & World Building_
>>> by Neil Shapero, page 39, section 12.3.2 "Planetary Atmospheres".
>
>>Gee, does it allow for things like the *close* in gas giants the
>>astronomers have found?
>
> If it does, it would have been villified when it was published because such
> gas giants were considered impossible at that time. ;->  I don't think
> Accrete produces them up close either, does it?  

Not sure. I suspect that it would only take a minor tweak to Accrete to
"fix" it. 

As I understand it, the most popular theory to explain those gas giants
is that they formed farther out, and friction in the nebula drew them
inward.

It even kinda makes sense. I suspect that Accrete can't produce close
binaries either.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2203
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 6 1998      Volume 1997 : Number 2204



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Project Longbow?
New Traveller Page
Re: The Kessel Run
Re: Coalition ships
Re: Starship Troopers
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2203
[none]
Killer Bee Class Light Fighter
K'Kree?
K'Kree?
Re: Formulas
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2203
Re: Metrics aren't Intuitive?  
Re: Citizen Points
RE: Classic Ship Design System
Re: Jumping away from pirates
Re: Classic Ship Design System
Re:  formulas
Re: The Kessel Run
Barbie-o-rama

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 06:27:37 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Project Longbow?

On Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:25:41 +0000 (), Michael Koehne wrote:

> Moin Robin Cantin,
> 
> > What the Hell is Project Longbow?
> > Yes I know, it's a long-range communication project that was abandoned. Yet
> > obviously Strephon uses it to contact... "an empress"?!?
> > And who are Pentecost and the others? What's that thing who's coming? Any
> > information in the supplements I didn't buy?
> 
> 	BTW: Viewing the Wave with Longbow is imposible, if the the Pentecost
> 	message, that the wave has a 1C closure, is true. Because if the wave
> 	has 1C closure, effects of the wave would be seen by the longbow
> 	collectors only together with the arrival of the wave.

Longbow's task wasn't to observe the wave (which propagated at the speed of
light).  Rather, its task was to observe Zhodani ship "movement" along the
core expedition route.





James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

 Money talks... it usually says "bend over"...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 07:31:41
From: Paolo Marino <marino@inrete.it>
Subject: New Traveller Page

I've just added my page to the Traveller webring.

It's located at http://www.inrete.it/games/traveller/trav.html

Please visit and send me some feedback.



__  Paolo Marino  __          |Inrete Games Page: www.inrete.it/games/gms.html
 mc4799@mclink.it (Preferred) | marino@inrete.it (Best for MIME/BinHex)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:04:10 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The Kessel Run

In mail you write:

> I quite liked it as a bit of handwaving (but then I appear to be one of the
>  few who could be [just about] persuaded by the M0 Campaign's
>  rationale on law level in the data), however Mr Hale is quite right, as I
> understood it, *originally* it was just an error.

Actually, what I've read is that Lucas knew darn well that it was an
error, and put it in with the intent of showing that Han wasn't as
bright as he thought he was. Alas, it didn't occur to him that anybody
who knew what a parsec was *wouldn't* believe that a pilot could be
*that* ignorant.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:36:16 EST
From: GypsyComet <GypsyComet@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Coalition ships

Robin Cantin <rcantin@oricom.ca> asks:

>In TNE Path of Tears sourcebook is described the entire RC fleet, but there
>are several desings I'm unfamiliar with. Could someone give me at least the
>tonnage of the Valor-class Corvette, the Petty-class Merchant, the Vixtrix,
>the Fusilier-class destroyers and Leviathan-class assault transport?
>
>Robin


and "Will" <panzer@mail.sisna.com> responded:

>Merchant, Subsidized - Petty Class	

>
>General DataDisplacement: 390/400	Hull Armor:	10Length: 44 
>meters	Volume:5460/5600m3Price: MCr 87.53	Target Size: 
>SConfiguration: Cylinder AF	Tech Level: 12Mass(Loaded/Empty): 
>3906.28/2371.69
>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Missile Corvette, Valor-Class 	
>
>General DataDisplacement: 400	Hull Armor: 64Length: 44 meters	Volume: 
>5600m3Price: MCr 242.09	Target Size: SConfiguration: Cylinder SL	Tech 
>Level: 15Mass(Loaded/Empty): 3313.21/3104.31
>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Well this is all the stats I have from  Traveller Navigator  
>Spinward Marches.
>

  For those of you with the MegaTraveller Rebellion Sourcebook, the
Valor is the little fellow at the bottom of the picture on page 20,
and two more are to be found escorting the Voroshilef on page 82. The
class originally appeared in the FASA supplement "Adventure Class Ships,
Volume 1", a Classic Trav deckplan collection.

 The Victrix is described in the TNE adventure "The Guilded Lilly,"
one of the last publications of GDW. It is a 400-ton starship originally
of Solomani design adapted and adopted by the RC.

  The Petty sounds like the TL-12 version of the Fat Trader (aka
Type-R).

  The Fusilier is an Aurora Clipper that has had all of its modular
space filled in with a streamlined solid hull (at least as far as
general hull shape is concerned). Based on the numbers for the Clipper
I would place the Fusilier at about 2100 tons displacement.

  The Leviathan is said to carry a "Light Brigade" but no size is
given beyond this clue. It either looks completely different from
the other ships of the RC, OR it looks like the Fusilier...

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:18:41 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Starship Troopers

aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton) wrote:

>It's on my 'books to buy if I ever read all the books I've got *now*'
>list.

You'll have to special order from the US or find it second hand (unless
they re-release it to coincide with the movie) to get a copy in the UK.
Like most of RH's stuff, it's out of print in the UK.

I ordered it and read it the day before we went to see the preview. Once I
managed to disconnect the memories of the book, the film was okay (if you
ignore the obvious stupidities like not nuking the Bug's homeworld).

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:26:54 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2203

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/06/98 09:26 AM

Hi guys - I've just discovered TML and maybe you can help me with a query?

Has anyone seen the Deluxe T4 book yet? I have the previous T4 rulebook but
would upgrade if the new one has enough of the bugs fixed (weapons,
character generation, QSDS etc). So, what's new?

Thanx -
Andy

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 10:51:03 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com>
Subject: [none]

>Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:05:54 -0800
>From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
>Subject: Mayday !?!
>
>I'm looking at the old Mayday game (with an eye of updating the system to
>T4), and I've come across some inconsistancies that I'd like to run by the
>group to see if I'm making some large error in my thinking...
>
>The game uses a time scale of 1 turn = 100 min = 6000 sec, and a hex scale
>of 1 light sec = 3.0 x 10^8 m. They allow each G (=approx. 10 m/s^2) of
>accelleration to alter the future position of the ship 1 hex. However,
>going back to the old physics books, delta x = (1/2)at^2 going solely on
>accelleration. Plugging in the numbers gives delta x for 1G =1.8 x 10^8, or
>roughly half of what's needed.
>
If you check your textbooks, what you find is:

If your current vector is 3 hexes per turn in direction 1
If the acceleration is by 2 hexes in direction 2
Your final vector is 3 hexes in direction 1 plus 2 in direction 2.
However, on the turn you apply the acceleration, you only get half of the
distance.
(assuming uniform acceleration, at the start of the turn you had no
direction 2 vector,
at the end you have a 2 hex vector, so you actually moved 1 hex in
direction 2)

Mayday's approximation gives the correct vector (which is the basis for
future movement)
but a slightly wrong position.

Presumably this is because you would need twice as many hexes otherwise (a
1G thrust
changes your vector by 2 hexes but your position by only 1 on the turn it
is applied).
It also helps explain the game when delta-X is the same as your velocity
vector.

>Now if we change the time to reflect current T4 starship combat turns,
>things get even worse. Change your hex scale to 1/10th of a light second
>(the minimum range for any weapon in Starships) and the time scale to 10
>min = 600 sec (the Standard T4 starship combat turn). Plugging in the
>numbers at this scale gives a delta x for 1G = 1.8 x 10^6, compared to a
>3.0 x 10^7 m hex; only 1/20th of what's needed.
>
1/10th? but the point is well made.
>
>Now the rub... Something needs to change fairly drastically to bring things
>back into the realm of playability, either:
>a) turn length (approx. 40 min. turns gives a delta x = 1 hex = 3.0 x
>10^7), allowing a ship to fire multiple times per movement (4 to be exact).
>b) hex scale (approx. 1/200th of a light sec, which allows for some wasted
>energy), but would necessitate some sort of compensation for scale at long
>ranges, because at this scale for a hex, long ranged weapons span a
>whopping 1600 hexes (which I really doubt anyone has the space for on their
>dining room table). Two possibilities here:

Since at the Traveller ranges there is no dogfighting as such, if you only
have
two ships (eg PC plus pirate) a simple linear scale will do (ie are they
closing
or separating).

To make a game you must be thinking of multiple ships and then I would favour
a set of firepower stats to reflect combat ability over the entire 6000sec.
This would be a bit more "Battle Rider" than "Mayday" but a "Battle Rider" for
smaller ships.

Don't forget that a triple laser turret can fire 2,400 shots per turn (or
24,000
in your extended period) and that's either a lot of dice or you are already
using
a more abstract damage system.

All IMHO of course:)

<snip>
>
>Schoon
>schoon@aimnet.com
>

Phil Kitching
- --
  Mailto:Philk@btinternet.com (don't blame BT - they only pay me:)
  Why shoot at a Vargr ship without warning?
  If the captain doesn't put his head out of the window, it must be a
  pirate trying to achieve surprise :)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:09:10 -0500 
From: "Svenson, Gregory (FL51)" <gsvenson@space.honeywell.com>
Subject: Killer Bee Class Light Fighter

I have been interested in developing a 10 dton light fighter for some
time. This is what I tinkered together. I would be interested in any
comments you have for improvements. Thanks to Andrew Akins for
developing the FFS2 spreadsheet (vsn. 1.6) that I used for this design.

I put together two versions. The basic single seat version and the two
seat Killer Bee Commander version. Stats for the Commander version,
where they are different, are in parenthesis after the basic models
stats.

FL12XS (Killer Bee) class Light Fighter and FL12XS/2 (Killer Bee 
Commander variant)

Designer: Greg Svenson (gsvenson@space.honeywell.com)
Firm: Karellia Industries, LTD
System: FFS2

Tons: 10std (AF Needle Hypersonic)	Crew: 1/1 (2/2)		
Cargo: 0std (0/0)				Volume: 140m3
Passengers H/M: 0/0			Cost: 25.927MCr (31.529MCr)
Mass (L/C): 189t/188t (175t/174t)		Passengers Low: 0
Maint. Points: 28 (25)			Dimensions: 37.7m x 3.8m x 3.8m
Troops/Science: 0			Tech Level: 12
Size: 7

Electronics:
Controls: Dynamic, high automation, 2xFltComp (CM:0.5 CP:2.0). Terrain 
          following sensors (TF:480, NOE:160). No bridge. (3xFltComp)
Communications: 1xLaser (1,000AU, 0.00MW). (8xLaser 1000AU Comm)
Sensors: 1xFld PEMS (12.5 [1.6mkm], 0.00MW), 1xFld AEMS (11 [.16mkm],
         0.25MW), 1xLIDAR (14 [200kkm], 0.20MW).
Survey/Science: none.
ECM: none.
Signatures: Vis:-1.5, IR:-1.0 (-1.0 at 19MW, -1.0 at 3MW),
            Act:-0.5, Neu:-2, Grav:-1

Weaponry:
1xFixed Laser (+4) 1/1-1-1-1 [1,50/20-20-20-20] (8.51MW)
1xMissile Canisters 3/3(3) 2 Command DetLaser 1d6/2 6G12 1000AU /MFD
  (0.03MW, 50,000km) (1xMissile Canisters 2/2(2)...)

Performance:
0 Jump
4.0/4.0 Maneuver (Thruster:19MW) (4.2/4.3 Maneuver)
3,602kph/3,613kph Atmosphere (Cruise:2,702kph/2,710kph)
(3,682kph/3,694kph Atmosphere [/Crus:2,762kph/2,771kph])

6 Power (Fusion+:28MW, 168 hours)
0.0 fuel
0/0/0/0/0 Accommodations
1 Life Sup. (Type:st, Gd St) (2 Life Sup.)
2 G-Comp
20 ESA
0 [20] Armor
2 Structure

Features:
1xAirlock		1xstorage(0.05std) (1xstorage[0.02std])

Backups:
none

Crew:
1xMnvr (1xMnvr, 1xElec/cmd)

The Killer Bee class Light Fighter is designed to engage and destroy
enemy
warships. It can also serve in a planetary air support role. It is
capable 
of operating from carriers, space stations and planetary surfaces.

The primary offensive capability of the Killer Bee is the three standard
half ton displacement anti-ship missiles. A Master Fire Director is 
provided to allow greater accuracy and control of the missiles. The
short 
range fixed laser is operated by the pilot aiming the ship at the target

and firing. It is also equipped with a Master Fire Director. The
missiles 
can be replaced with deadfall ordinance or a variety of smaller tactical

missiles.

The Killer Bee has relatively light armor for space combat which is 
supplemented by electro static armor, doubling the effective protection
for
the ship. It has basic drive and neutrino masking, limited stealth in
the
form of an EMS absorbing hull, plus military black coatings.

The Killer Bee is intended for relatively short duration missions.
However,
it is capable of operating independently for up to 7 days and has a
fresher,
but no bunk, for the comfort of the crew during extended operations.

The Killer Bee Commander variant of the Killer Bee has a second crew
station
for the flight commander and an additional 7 1000AU Laser communicators
(making a total of 8). To make room for the commander one of the missile
canisters has been removed. The reduced mass of the Commander increases
the
performance to 4.3 G's in space operations. Otherwise, the Killer Bee 
Commander is identical to the standard Killer Bee.

Greg Svenson
gsvenson@space.honeywell.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 05:20:59 +0000
From: "Will" <panzer@mail.sisna.com>
Subject: K'Kree?

Hello All,

Anyone have anygood Info. on the K'Kree?, Please
What I need the most is, How to make a NPC.

Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 05:20:59 +0000
From: "Will" <panzer@mail.sisna.com>
Subject: K'Kree?

Hallo Alle, 

Jedermann haben anygood-INFO. auf dem K'Kree?, Bitte was ich ben=F6tige, i=
st die meisten, wie
man ein NPC.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 06:18:50 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Formulas

Uhhh...remember folks...no one's actually determined that these 'close-in'
planets are gas giants, merely 'Jupiter _sized_' or more accurately,
'Jupiter massed', and even their existence is still somewhat in dispute.
There's still only indirect evidence of these planets.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Eris Reddoch wrote:

> On 01/05/98 at 02:25 AM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:
> 
> >> You're thinking of _Other Suns, Book 2: Starships & World Building_
> >> by Neil Shapero, page 39, section 12.3.2 "Planetary Atmospheres".
> 
> >Gee, does it allow for things like the *close* in gas giants the
> >astronomers have found?
> 
> If it does, it would have been villified when it was published because such
> gas giants were considered impossible at that time. ;->  I don't think
> Accrete produces them up close either, does it?  
> 
> Eris
> -- 
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 06:32:50 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2203

On Tue, 6 Jan 1998 ASlack@synetics.co.uk wrote:
> 
> Hi guys - I've just discovered TML and maybe you can help me with a query?

Welcome, and sure.
 
> Has anyone seen the Deluxe T4 book yet? I have the previous T4 rulebook but
> would upgrade if the new one has enough of the bugs fixed (weapons,
> character generation, QSDS etc). So, what's new?

The Deluxe T4, AKA T4.1 is still being worked on by Marc. He's released
bits and pieces for comment, such as chargen rules, task systems, and some
other stuff which escapes me now. It would be in the archives though, at
mpgn. I think it was posted last fall.

He's stated that he wants it done right, and is willing to slip release
dates in favor of achieving that aim. (Yaaay!)

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:12:00 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Metrics aren't Intuitive?  

From: Peter Newman <pnewman@ALASKA.NET>

>> From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> wrote
>
>> From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
>
>> >> >>> Does a pound of silver weigh the same
>> >> >>> as a pound of iron?
>> >> >>And which falls to the earth faster?
>> >>
>> >> Essentially they will fall at the same rate; however,
>> >> if you're splitting hairs, the pound of silver will hit
>> >> the ground first (even though it weighs less).
>
>> >Even if we are talking about bars of the same mass there are
>> >many other complications at work.
>> >If you wish to be truly pedantic...
>
>> I like pedantic as well as the next guy, but you seemed to
>> have missed the point.  Or are you simply ignoring it?
>
>Yes of course, wasn't it obvious ?

More or less.

End of thread?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:31:28 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Citizen Points

Andrew,

>> >Sorry, I didn't make myself very clear - the writer should be
>> > allowed to choose how he is paid: cash, or CPs, but at a
>> > better.
>>
>> I started to ask you why you thought that a writer should get
>> a better break than anyone else?  But, I guess that all of us
>> would benefit from the writing, so perhaps this suggestion
>> is not out of order.  I guess I am exhibiting my herd
>> tendencies.
>
>My thinking was that it would encourage the writer to take the
>CPs (which cost IG nothing) rather than the money, as well as
>encouraging more people to write stuff.


Makes sense to me!  The same would be true of competitions if there were
any.

- ---------------------------------
    I must be Travelling,

    Richard
- ---------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 08:15:25 -0600
From: Steve Dorfman <dorfman@ksu.edu>
Subject: RE: Classic Ship Design System

Rob,

Concur with your suggestion for such a system for CT.  I am avid
collector of CT items and would love to have such a system.  I am no
computer genius so it sort of needs to be idiot proof.

Fully supportive....Steve Dorfman (dorfman@ksu.edu)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:17:27 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Jumping away from pirates

Phil Kitching writes:

>For all those of you who think that you just jump from a pirate before
>100 dia, remember that you need 64MJ/m3/parsec stored in the capacitors.

Does this derive from the new FF&S rules?

>Most civilian ships require about 1 hour to generate this and don't have
>the power to generate it any quicker.

By CT rules a ship can't jump at all unless it is able to generate the
power it needs in 2 combat rounds (40 minutes).
  
>Note that FFS (p12) implies that once the power is stored, you can't hang
>around and wait (since there is a one hour time limit), so the ship
>must jump.

Not a bad point. It's true that a merchant can't always jump away from a
pirate; if he is surprised, he is in trouble. However, I still don't
understand how the pirate achived the surprise in the first place. In
space there is nowhere to hide. The best suggestion I've seen so far
is for the pirate to linger in port until his prospective prey takes
off and then file a flight plan that allows him to take off almost
immidiately afterwards on the same vector. There's only two things
wrong with that: First of all I don't believe that a ship can set down
on a manned starport without leaving sufficient evidence behind to
identify it afterwards. And secondly I don't see how anyone can behave
like that without arousing deep suspicions in with prey and authorities.
The very fact that such behaviour is the only practical way to get a
shot at a victim will make it so very suspicious.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:16:54 -0800
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
Subject: Re: Classic Ship Design System

Robert Eaglestone <eaglesto@nortel.ca> wrote:

>I would like to see a CSDS -- the Classic Ship Design System.
>Taking components most likely to be used in a civilian vessel
>in Milieu 0, build a system that looks like that used in Classic
>Traveller or High Guard... preferably CT!

Granted the old CT system was elegant in its simplicity, but then again the
QSDS is also pretty basic (if not quite as elegant or broad in scope). I'm
not sure that anythng would be gained by generating a new system, as ship
cards would still have to be generated for T4 use.

What might be a better option, is to revamp the QSDS slightly to make it
feel more like designing with the older system (i.e. easier, more "plug &
play" systems, and a broader range of options). Personnally, I find the
hull table of the QSDS to be very restrictive, which is a problem that
never came up in CT.

SSDS and FFS2 give the flexiblity needed at the cost of some complexity,
but the Herr Andy's spreadsheets take much of the sting out of it. I'm kind
of a tech-head, so I kind of like the current systems, but I do see the
allure of the old ways (particularly when I can't get the bottom line to
come out right!).

Schoon

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:48:10 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re:  formulas

>>>Gee, does it allow for things like the *close* in gas giants the
>>>astronomers have found?
>>
>> If it does, it would have been villified when it was published because such
>> gas giants were considered impossible at that time. ;->  I don't think
>> Accrete produces them up close either, does it?  

>Not sure. I suspect that it would only take a minor tweak to Accrete to
>"fix" it. 

>As I understand it, the most popular theory to explain those gas giants
>is that they formed farther out, and friction in the nebula drew them
>inward.

There actually was a prediction (by Doug Lin at UCSC) that forming giant
planets would tend to spiral in due to tidal forces (not friction). 
It didn't get a lot of attention because the major problem is stopping the
planets; to first order they just end up falling into the star. One needs a
"just so" tweaking of the parameters to make the accretion disk go away just
as the planet almost-but-not-quite reaches the star, or some ad hoc assumptions
about rotation and magnetic fields to clear a gap inside the disk. Adding it
correctly to a program like accrete would be hard. 

The second-most-popular theory is that multiple planets form and chaotic 
interactions between them eject a couple while moving another one into a 
very close orbit. This also has problems - it takes considerable effort to
re-circularize the orbit, and again it's pretty "just so"...

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:47:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Scott Taylor <izzylobo@faerealm.faerealm.com>
Subject: Re: The Kessel Run

Leonard Erickson, Paragon of Virtue, wrote;
> In mail you write:
> 
> > I quite liked it as a bit of handwaving (but then I appear to be one of the
> >  few who could be [just about] persuaded by the M0 Campaign's
> >  rationale on law level in the data), however Mr Hale is quite right, as I
> > understood it, *originally* it was just an error.
> 
> Actually, what I've read is that Lucas knew darn well that it was an
> error, and put it in with the intent of showing that Han wasn't as
> bright as he thought he was. Alas, it didn't occur to him that anybody
> who knew what a parsec was *wouldn't* believe that a pilot could be
> *that* ignorant.

My understanding is also that, in part, Lucas was trying to stress that 
this was "a Long Time Ago in a Galaxy Far Far Away", and the same rules 
didn't necessarily apply (*He* knew damn well he was writing a Mythic 
Fantasy that happened to use SF props, even if some folks keep trying to 
turn Star Wars into Hard SF... :-/).

Scott Taylor
Freelancer for Hire
Have Mac, Will Travel

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:35:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Barbie-o-rama

> >I think it fairly obvious, that despite having achieve a mastery of FF&S
> >designing, you all still have a lot to learn about Barbie 8^)
> 
> Does that mean that the next item of purchase would be some kind of Barbie
> doll instead of another RPG supplement ?
> 
> What is the core product of the Barbie line ?

Depends on whether you want to wait for "GURPS Barbie" or not.

> What supplements are recommended for beginners ?

Why, Skipper, of course!

> >Actually, I want 'Vargr Captive Barbie' and 'VaccSuit Ken'.
> 
> The former just isn't likely to happen -- besides obvious difficulties with
> the Fifth Prime Directive of T4, there aren't going to be the accessories
> and outfits necessary to keep marketing happy.
> 
> Or wait.  Who says the Vargr don't have a sense of poetic justice?
>  Barbie's Dream Chokechain Collar!
>  Barbie's Super Food and Water Bowl!

Congrats, you've achieved the coveted Coffee Spluttered All Over My
Keyboard critical hit.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2204
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 6 1998      Volume 1997 : Number 2205



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Cylons in TNE
Call for NPC's
Re: Jumping away from pirates
Re: Kessel Run
T4.1 Starship Combat & Design
Re: Barbie-o-rama
Re: Barbie's Own Particle Accelerator Rifle
Imperium Games can work e-mail!!!!!
> Re: Starship Troopers
Greetings!
Re: Hello...Is anyone out there?
Re: Cylons in TNE
Re: Jumping away from pirates
Re: Art Portfolio
Re: Imperium Games can work e-mail!!!!!
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Barbie=81=27s?= Own Flying Saucer II
Jumping away from pirates
Re: The Kessel Run

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:47:14 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: Cylons in TNE

Phil Kitching writes: 

>>   We disagree here.  Enemies (particularly arch villians) were
>>cardboard cutouts.  Originial Star Trek series done on probably about
>>the same amount of money and had much better special effects, and more
>>believable gadgets.  The protrayal of Dr. Who depended largely on the
>>person playing the part (they were definately not equal).
>
>Sorry but the info that I have is a bit different:
>
>The Star Trek Pilot ("The Cage") cost $630,000
>(source "The Star Trek Compendium")
>or $686,000 (source "Star Trek Movie Memories").
>
>The Dr Who Pilot cost =A32,143(episode 1); =A34,307; =A32,181 and =A32,316.
>Plus =A34,328 for the Tardis interior sets.
>(Source "The Handbook - The First Doctor")
>
>Indeed I seem to recall calculating that, allowing for exchange rates,
>the first three years of Dr Who (126 episodes) cost less than the
>Star Trek pilot.

   Ah, but how about subsequent episodes of Star Trek?  I'm not disputing
your numbers by any means, I'm just wondering how much it cost once all the
sets were constructed (usually the highest cost item for doing such a series).

>I also recall reading somewhere that the per episode cost of Battlestar
>Galatica was $1million due to the cost of the effects.

   That number is correct, or at least pretty close, and I'm not even sure
if that included cast salaries.  It was definately a factor in the ABC
network deciding to cancel the series (despite its Star Trek-like "hardcore
following").  It also explains why the emphasis of "Galactica: 1980" was on
the contact mission with Earth and not on the Colonials fending off hordes
of Cylon Raiders.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:05:23 -0000
From: "Justin Durkan" <jdurkan@iol.ie>
Subject: Call for NPC's

Hi,

I posted a request to the list a while back. Due to a purge disk failure
I've missed out on a few unread digests. I'll place the request again.

What are the favoured NPC's that TMLer's use in their campaigns?

I'm actually looking for NPC's to use in my own campaign so I hope people
won't mind me using them. My campaign is based around a secret society
associated with the psionic institutes. The high-ups in it are nobles based
in the spinward marches and seeking the emancipation of psionicists through
the overthrow of the Imperium in this region and the the transfer of power
of the marches over to the Zhos.

The high ups, the intermediaries and the foot soldiers of this organisation
are candidates for any NPC's that any TMLer's would care to reply.

BTW, the society, and the campaign, is called "Brothers Behind The Claw"

Thanks in advance.
/Justin Durkan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:39:51 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Jumping away from pirates

>For all those of you who think that you just jump from a pirate before
>100 dia, remember that you need 64MJ/m3/parsec stored in the capacitors.
>Most civilian ships require about 1 hour to generate this and don't have
>the power to generate it any quicker.

It's a bit silly to think that you will not have an hour or more warning if
a ship is "bearing down" on you.  Short of some ruse to prevent their prey
from leaving, merchants will have a tremendous (relatively) amount of time
to make the jump/no jump decision.

>Note that FFS (p12) implies that once the power is stored, you can't hang
>around and wait (since there is a one hour time limit), so the ship
>must jump.

Hmmm, haven't seen this, but the implication behind black globe shields
which have been around in every incarnation of traveller is that energy can
be "stored" in a "capacitor" and be ready to use for jump energy.  Now, it
could be that the energy stored needs an hour to convert *after* that
point...even so, if I *knew* the approaching ship had hostile intent (not
always possible I know) then committing to a jump an hour before weapons
range would not be a problem

>ie, once the jump cycle starts, you can predict within a few thousand km
>where the ship will be when it jumps (and when).

I don't see how that follows.  My recollection is that jump destination is
affected by gravity, velocity, and direction of travel.  Fleets of ships
jumping together can coordinate such that they arrive at *approximately*
the same time and space, but that is not the same as observing a ship jump
*then* basing your own jump factors on intercepting them.  In fact, I would
say this is non-canonical.

>Just aborting the jump cycle has problems, because all that energy is
>going to melt something if you don't use it to enter jumpspace.

Again, the jump capacitor thing contradicts this, but certainly if such
capacitors do not exist the energy must go somewhere; and recent
discussions showed that radiating energy into space has serious limits.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton
MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center
(617) 253-3185
pbrenton@mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:48:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: Kessel Run

You wrote:
> Someone said:
> > Hale is quite right, as I understood it, *originally* it was just an error.
> 
> Actually, what I've read is that Lucas knew darn well that it was an
> error, and put it in with the intent of showing that Han wasn't as
> bright as he thought he was. Alas, it didn't occur to him that anybody
> who knew what a parsec was *wouldn't* believe that a pilot could be
> *that* ignorant.

I'm not sure I buy this one, either.  I have (somewhere) a first printing of
the novelization of Star Wars (also by Lucas - remember, he was producer,
director, screenwriter, and wrote the novelization).  In the novelization,
Han says "standard timeparts" instead of "parsec".

My guess is that Lucas wrote "standard timeparts" into the script, but when
they were shooting it, it didn't sound right coming out of Harrison Ford's
mouth.  So it got changed (on the spot, probably) to the first thing that
Lucas could think of that sounded better.  Thus "parsec", which sounds
vaguely technical and time-like.


wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  Prepare the Wave Motion Gun!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 13:11:44 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design

Preamble: I sent this message a couple weeks ago, I didn't see it
arrive. Since Rob has brought up design systems again, I shall resend to
ensure my opinion is known ;-)

CardSharks wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 97-12-19 04:50:13 EST, you write:
> 
> << I don't think that it is a basic flaw of the systems idea
>  or intents just in the form of the presentation and ease of use. >>
> 
> I agree.
> 
> The Traveller ship design system has to be
> 
> 1. Integrated with the combat system (in the sense that the combat system has
> to be understandable so people know what poarts to put in their ship).
> 
> 2. Chart based, so designers can turn to the information they need and find it
> (and understand it).
> 
> 3. Driven by a checklist, and supported by a usable, user friendly form,
> 
> 4. Supported by a reasonable format for the ship card / USP so one can
> understand what that means, and
> 
> 5. supported by examples.


Seems to me a reasonable outline.

A couple questions, to Marc and the list in general:

1. Is Wildstar still working on QSDS v2, or has this become vapourware?
;-)

2. If 1. is true, will this be considered as the new ship design system
to be included in T4.1?

3. Has anyone been using the RPSCS (Role-playing ship combat system), or
done any other work on it? (latest version I've seen is 0.9)

4. Will the RPSCS be considered as the basis of the new ship combat
system?


My hopes:

I think QSDS is an admirably quick and simple way to build a starship,
if QSDS2 is updated for compatibility with FF&S2 and the combat system;
and if easy to follow flowcharts/checklists are included, I think it
would serve quite well as the design system.

I'd hate to see yet another design system that isn't a direct decendant
of or compatible with any other previously published system.

The RPSCS seems just the ticket for a combat system. I haven't
playtested it yet, but it seems to me that having *role-play* as the
focus (as opposed to wargaming, ala BL & BR) is a good premise for the
basic rulebook.

The presentation of RPSCS could be tweaked a bit, with the addition of a
clear flowchart, checklist, turn sequence or whatever you'd like to call
it.

I *definitely* would like to keep the basis for combat being
detect-lock-fire, _please_ don't water it down to just a basic "to hit"
task roll. Don't skip the important considerations of detection with
active/passive sensors, keeping a fire control lock on target, *then*
firing.

Combat is much more suspenseful and realistic with the additional step
of tracking the target down, evasion, sensor jamming, spoofing, worrying
about "lighting up" the active sensors, powering down equipment to
reduce signature, and all the other fun stuff. :)

Glenn Hoppe
Still pining for the ultimate complete space combat solution . . .


Addenda:

Re: Robert Eaglestone's request for a more CT like system

I don't see QSDS as being *that* much more different or difficult than
the CT version. They both have modular components, and require only
basic math.

I do not want to see yet-another-starship-design-system. What's wrong
with a modified QSDS? What makes the CT system so much better? If QSDS
had a wider selection of hulls, and if it included a wider selection of
standard components, it would serve admirably.

The foundation is there, let's use it. Don't go back to a 20 year old
system which has different basic assumptions. I like the more realistic
assumptions (detect-lock-fire) for reasons outlined above.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:50:42 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Barbie-o-rama

Craig Berry wrote:

>> Does that mean that the next item of purchase would be some kind of Barbie
>> doll instead of another RPG supplement ?
>>
>> What is the core product of the Barbie line ?
>
>Depends on whether you want to wait for "GURPS Barbie" or not.

This would get me to buy GURPS, actually.

Anyone else here a fan of the RPG "It Came From the Late, Late, Late Show"?

>> Or wait.  Who says the Vargr don't have a sense of poetic justice?
>>  Barbie's Dream Chokechain Collar!
>>  Barbie's Super Food and Water Bowl!
>
>Congrats, you've achieved the coveted Coffee Spluttered All Over My
>Keyboard critical hit.

I've... _seen_ Barbies you people wouldn't believe...


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 98 19:18 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Barbie's Own Particle Accelerator Rifle

In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.16.19980105184322.130f8454@mail.orac.net.au>

Ian,

> The kit is available in duck-egg blue of Barbie Hot Pink, and can be
> accessorised by the Barbie's Own BattleDress line.
>  
> Barbie's Own Fusion Gun is planned for a Fall release.

This thread is getting seriously twisted...maybe BITS can do 101 Toys 
as their next book...?
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 09:02:55 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Imperium Games can work e-mail!!!!!

I got back from a need break yesterday. I looked at my email, in hope that
IG had finally decided to answer my queries. Nothing, but I did notice
Rob's post to the TML taking things further. So I regretfully decided that
time had come to start getting heavy. But it was late at night so I had to
wait. I got up this morning, checked my email and lo and behold; a message
from IG replying to my enquiries!!!!!!!!! Has anyone else been contacted?

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm (general)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/abuse/abuse.htm (sexual abuse pages)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/traveller.htm (Traveller pages)

****************************************************************************
 "He knows when you are sleeping
  He see's when you're awake
  He knows when you've been bad or good"
Rather frightening isn't it?
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:25:20 +0000 (GMT)
From: Ron Dawson <rdawson@cgc.ns.ca>
Subject: > Re: Starship Troopers

SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote:

> aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton) wrote:
> 
> >It's on my 'books to buy if I ever read all the books I've got *now*'
> >list.
> 
> You'll have to special order from the US or find it second hand (unless
> they re-release it to coincide with the movie) to get a copy in the UK.
> Like most of RH's stuff, it's out of print in the UK.

There's a reprint out to coincide with the movie.  I saw it the other day
in a K-Mart magazine rack.  The cover is a picture from the movie.  Don't
remember the publisher info, etc or know if it's available outside of
North America. 

- - Ron

- --------------------------------------------------------
Ron Dawson
CANSARP Support,                       Search and Rescue
Canadian Coast Guard College,                Sydney N.S.
Phone: (902) 564-3660 x1345          Fax: (902) 562-6113
Email: rdawson@cgc.ns.ca  Pager Email: pageron@cgc.ns.ca
- --------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:02:04 -0500 (EST)
From: "Frank Frey (SOK)" <ffreyiii@luna.cas.usf.edu>
Subject: Greetings!

Greetings All, 
My name is Frank Frey and I'm an old time Traveller player (ca. 1977). My
main area of interest is the First Interstellar War and the period leading
up to it. I've already posted some material on WEBRPG's Traveller forum.
(www.webrpg.com)
As a history major, one of the things that really interests me is the
impact that intial contact with the Vilani had upon the Terrans. Talk
about shaking things up!! Another topic is how and why the FIW got started
in the first place. When you look at the map of the Solomani Rim the first
thing that jumps out is that there was plenty of room for the Terrans to
expand rimward. Since it was a Terran warship that fired first on a Vilani
trade convoy, one can only draw the conclusion that it was a deliberate
provocation and casus belli. Why this occured is open to speculation.
Shall we speculate?
Frank Frey 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 98 21:14 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Hello...Is anyone out there?

In-Reply-To: <l03110700b0d79877d4f1@[194.119.133.125]>

SD,

> >It's on my 'books to buy if I ever read all the books I've got *now*'
> >list.
>  
> You'll have to special order from the US or find it second hand (unless
> they re-release it to coincide with the movie) to get a copy in the UK.
> Like most of RH's stuff, it's out of print in the UK.

Ordering from the US is no problem, but I thought I read somewhere that it 
had been re-issued. I'll check.

> I ordered it and read it the day before we went to see the preview. Once I
> managed to disconnect the memories of the book, the film was okay (if you
> ignore the obvious stupidities like not nuking the Bug's homeworld).

Not quite as dumb as sending in infantry with no heavy weapons, no AFVs, and 
no air support.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 98 21:14 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Cylons in TNE

In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19980106124712.2dff1fec@pop.uky.edu>

Harold,

> >The Star Trek Pilot ("The Cage") cost $630,000
> >
> >The Dr Who Pilot cost =A32,143(episode 1); =A34,307; =A32,181 and =A32,316.
> >Plus =A34,328 for the Tardis interior sets.
> >
> >Indeed I seem to recall calculating that, allowing for exchange rates,
> >the first three years of Dr Who (126 episodes) cost less than the
> >Star Trek pilot.
>  
>    Ah, but how about subsequent episodes of Star Trek?  I'm not disputing
> your numbers by any means, I'm just wondering how much it cost once all the
> sets were constructed (usually the highest cost item for doing such a series).

According to the DW figures, permanent sets cost 2/3 of the cost. Excluding 
these, DW episodes cost roughly the same as the pilot, so assume ST is the same. 
This gives ST= ~$210k/ep, DW= ~2.3k. Not sure what the exchange rate was, say 
$3/, giving DW= ~$7k/ep, or 1/30 of the budget of ST.

Normally, the budgets for BBC SF series are the same as for drama series.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 13:11:57 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Jumping away from pirates

<<ie, once the jump cycle starts, you can predict within a few thousand 
km where the ship will be when it jumps (and when).>>

<I don't see how that follows.  My recollection is that jump destination 
is affected by gravity, velocity, and direction of travel.  Fleets of 
ships jumping together can coordinate such that they arrive at 
*approximately* the same time and space, but that is not the same as 
observing a ship jump *then* basing your own jump factors on 
intercepting them.  In fact, I would say this is non-canonical.>

The point being made is that you know where you will be when you JUMP, 
not where you will be when you exit jumpspace.

<<Just aborting the jump cycle has problems, because all that energy is 
going to melt something if you don't use it to enter jumpspace.>>

<Again, the jump capacitor thing contradicts this, but certainly if such 
capacitors do not exist the energy must go somewhere; and recent
discussions showed that radiating energy into space has serious limits.>
>Pete

I think it is safe to say that not all ships have the capacitors of the 
size needed to hold jump energy.  And I remember that if you overload a 
Black Globe, then the stored energy will be released with complete 
destruction of the ship.

Greg Smith

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:17:01 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Art Portfolio

response to eris

>Art is meant to *evoke* feelings and set a mood for the viewer.  An
>artistic image might, or might not, look like the object it is supposed to
>represent.  It might just be the artist's impression, or perception of the
>object's "essence" and not look at all like the actual object. 

This right here is all a matter of semantics, nothing more.  I don't think
when people talk about the artwork in a role-playing game, they really mean
stuff that should be hanging in a museum...

>Illustration, OTOH, has the goal of making things clear.  Illustrations
>should be clear, simple, and completely representative.  They should show
>as much of the object's form and function as possible.  Simple pen and ink
>images are good for this.  So are cut-aways and perspective views. 
>Impressionism, expressionism, surrealism have NO place here.

Not entirely true, at least not in the illustration classes that I've taken :)
Maybe in a purely technical sense, yes, you're right.  The illustrator has the
job of bringing something on a written page to life.  If you're bringing to
life a grav-tank in Traveller, you can have a number of options of how to do
it.  You can do it in a purely dry technical illustration, or a cutaway view,
or you could illustrate the grav tank in "action", at rest in a hangar with a
prep crew buzzing around it, or on the battlefield, or something in that vein.
All the options are valid.  If you're bringing to life background information
(which is what people seem to play Traveller for, really), then cutaway views,
and concise, no-frills illustrations start to lose their luster.  The
MegaTraveller Rebellion sourcebook does a good job at illustrating the text
with artwork, as an example.  The pictures create a mood, and are internally
consistent (combat armor looks the same in every picture, uniforms and
insignia are illustrated "in action" on troopers).

Two of the better illustrations in T4 are in the FF&S2 book:  The picture of
two and a half Imperial Marines with their plasma rifles was a good one (and
it helps that I can point to the picture and say to my players: "_This_ is
what a plasma rifle will do to you if it hits you"), and the picture of the
Trepida-style grav-tank in battle is another.  The Emperor's Arsenal is also
filled with good examples (one ACR picture has a recon/scout woman on alien-
beastback with the rifle in hand that sticks out in my mind).  This is the
kind of stuff I would like to see in future Trav books.  The lack of artwork
of this type hurt Aliens Archive which is an otherwise fantastic book.  I'd
like to see aliens with their artifacts, I'd like to see an image of a Graytch
jungle-gym city or space-ship interior, maybe some drawings of Bye-Ren (sp)
jewelry (the only luxury that they seem to allow themselves).  It is stated in
the text that some of them make intricate jewelry.  How intricate?  Do they
wear it prominently?  Hidden?  All of this could be answered in one 2"x3"
illustration.

A picture is worth a thousand words, and alot of cultural ideas can be brought
across in a picture.  Clarity for clarity's sake is important when you're
talking FF&S2, for example, but the majority of Traveller books aren't going
to be FF&S2, most of them are going to be more background oriented.  And
that's when you're going to start needing pictures more and more.  What are
the current styles among Vilanese nobles?  How much jewelry do they wear as a
race?  What do the Emperor's guards wear?  What does the emperor himself look
like?  How about the Solomani, what do they like to wear?  What did the
Ancient warbots on Vland look like?  Were they Knobbly?  Sleek?  Yes, you can
answer all this in text, but not as easily or concisely as you can in an
illustration.  And if every illustration is going to be an all-business
illustration, the RPG books are going to look like text books...  And nobody
wants to roleplay from a textbook.

Didn't even need to go into post-modernism or expressionism or any of the
other things that aren't needed in a roleplaying book.  I don't think anyone
was actually saying, "Hey, I'd like to see some cubist portraits of Imperial
Marines in my next Trav book" anyway.  I think illustrative _art_work is
needed in any RPG.  Not merely technical illustrations.

(As a note, I _like_ technical illustrations quite a bit.  I like the look of
schematics and diagrams and all that good stuff.  I just don't think that's
all that should be in a Traveller book)

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 14:21:33 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Imperium Games can work e-mail!!!!!

At 09:02 AM 1/7/98 +1300, you wrote:
>I got back from a need break yesterday. I looked at my email, in hope that
>IG had finally decided to answer my queries. Nothing, but I did notice
>Rob's post to the TML taking things further. So I regretfully decided that
>time had come to start getting heavy. But it was late at night so I had to
>wait. I got up this morning, checked my email and lo and behold; a message
>from IG replying to my enquiries!!!!!!!!! Has anyone else been contacted?

Well, what did they say?

Doug Berry

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:50:54 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Barbie=81=27s?= Own Flying Saucer II

Big Barbie=81 Class Toy Spaceship (FF&S v2)
Designed by Maadeli, LIC

[Upsized to fit the genuine, authentic Barbie=81 scale.  1/6 dimensions,
1/216 volume, doubled and rounded to 1/100 normal volume for passenger/crew
facilities, to allow for owner access.  Net effect: It's about three times
as big.  I'll email the design spreadsheet (Excel=81 for Mac=81) to anyone w=
ho
wants to inspect the little horror.]

Statistics
Tons: 3std (AF Dome Hypersonic)   Volume: 42m3    Mass (L/C): 18t/17t
Crew: 2/2   Cargo: 0.05std (1 mini hatch/Hdl:1x100kg)
Passengers High/Med: 2/0       Passengers Low: 0   Cost: 1.174 MCr
Maintenance Points: 2          Dimensions: 2.6m x 5.2m x 5.2m
Tech Level: 12       Size: 6   Composite laminate=81 hull.

Electronics
Controls: Dynamic, High automation. 1xFltComp (CM:0.35 CP:2.86). Terrain
following sensors (TF:480, NOE:160). Bridge.
Communications: 1xRadio (5,000km, 0.00MW). 1xLaser (500,000km, 0.00MW).
Sensors: 1xPEMS (12.5 [1.6mkm], 0.00MW). 1xAEMS (8, 0.03MW).
Signatures: Vis:-1.5, IR:-1.0 (-1.5 at 0MW), Act:0.0, Neu:-1, Grav:-2

Weaponry: None

Performance
1  Jump (0.3std/pc fuel)
1  Maneuver (/HEPlaR:2MW,8.0) ["Unrealistic" thrust calculation, of course]
0  Contra-grav
2416kph/2626kph Atmosphere (/Crus: 1812kph/1970kph)
2  Power (/Fusion+=81: 2MW,336.0)
0.6  Fuel (/Scoop:3 /Purif:13,0MW)
8/0/0/0/1  Accomodations (4 double-size large staterooms)
0 Life Support (/Type:EnC /FQ:Ex /'Sto)
1 G-Comp
0 ESA
0 Sandcasters
0 Damper Turrets/Screen
0 Meson Screen, Force Field
0 Gravtics
0 [6] Armor, Structure 0 (Composite laminate hull; splits down middle)

=46eatures
1xDecontamination Airlock=81
1xXeno Mystery Science Laboratory=81
1xSpace Medicine Center=81
1xExpedition Locker=81
1xAerobics Exercise Room=81
1xGlamor Beauty Salon=81
1xSuper Chef Kitchen=81
1xGreenhouse and Alien Petting Zoo=81

Small Craft
1xSpacious Hangar (0.06std craft [3.4m3], 1 hatches) with Alien Safari
GravJeep=81 (sold separately)

Backups: (None)

Crew Details: 2xMnvr.


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 98 03:05 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Jumping away from pirates

Moin Phil Kitching,

> For all those of you who think that you just jump from a pirate before
> 100 dia, remember that you need 64MJ/m3/parsec stored in the capacitors.
> Most civilian ships require about 1 hour to generate this and don't have
> the power to generate it any quicker.

	this can only be half of the bill, the reason is simple :

	- 30% of a jump drive is HPG. I've calculated the following for
	  a 100dt ship

		Tj j effec   HPG   Mj
		10 1 0.080   9.3  116.7
		11 2 0.060  14.0  233.3
		12 3 0.050  18.7  373.3
		13 4 0.045  23.3  518.5
		14 5 0.040  28.0  700.0
		15 6 0.035  32.7  933.3

	So the HPG of a 100dt/Tl12/J3 ship can store 373.3 Mj in 18.7m3
	of HPG. So this magical 64Mj/m3/parsec has to pulsed, and has to
	build - probately together with the jump fuel - the so called jump
	bubble.

	To make a J3 it would need 720 HPG pulses. If I dont limit HPGs,
	I open a lot can of worms in larger ships with 100th of weapons
	sharing the same HPG round robin. If I limit HPGs to a rate of
	fire of 25*Tl, as it was discused some times ago, it cant make
	a jump within one hour. If I limit it to this value, I have a nice
	magic formular. This is probately only valid for TNE/MT, as I dont
	have FFS2.

	 (j+1)^2      1
	--------- ~= --, which is 5% funny is'nt it ;-)
	mw * jmul    20

	where : jmul = jump fuel displacement / jump drive displacement
	        mw   = mj*tl*50/3600
	        mj   = energy stored in the jump drives hpg

	this would mean that a tl:9, j1 ship would need 14% fuel instead
	of the usual 10%, while high tech ships show the normal 4,3,2,1,0.5
	improvement as in MT from Tl17+.
	
	But also in T4 should be clear, that trying to store 64*m3*parsec Mj
	at once in the jump drive HPG, would cause 2d20 major hits in jump
	drive and power plant, because of HPG overcharge - for further
	reference see the black globe chapter.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:14:36 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: The Kessel Run

>>In a Star Wars novel whose name I forget, the Kessel system and planet
>>could only be reached by threading a tortuous path among several
>>highly dangerous, closely spaced stellar phenomena.  One could reduce
>>transit time by navigating closer to the dangerous bodies, thus
>>reducing the twistiness of one's path, but this made the task much
>>more dangerous.
>>
>>I extrapolated from this basically what Richard Flores is thinking.
>>The better your navigation is, the shorter would be your total
>>distance travelled in visiting and leaving the planet. On the other
>>hand, piloting and the fineness of your ship's tune would limit just
>>how close a shave you can survive.
>
>>   A nice bit of handwaving to cover Lucas' mistake.  Logical, but it
>>still doesn't change the fact that the units were originally confused
>>though....
>
>Just in case anyone want to follow this up (or otherwise), I just
>happen to have recently read the book in question:
>
>Jedi Search by Kevin Anderson (Part 1 of the Jedi Academy Trilogy)
>
> I quite liked it as a bit of handwaving (but then I appear to be one
> of the few who could be [just about] persuaded by the M0
> Campaign's rationale on law level in the data), however Mr Hale
> is quite right, as I understood it, *originally* it was just an error.


No argument there.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2205
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Tuesday, January 6 1998      Volume 1997 : Number 2206    
    
    
    
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.    
All rights reserved.    
    
The following topics are covered in this digest:    
    
Re: Coalition ships    
RE: K'Kree?    
Re: Kessel Run    
Re: Art Portfolio    
Re: Imperium Games can work e-mail!!!!!    
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2203    
TNE novels    
    
----------------------------------------------------------------------    
    
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 98 00:31     
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)    
Subject: Re: Coalition ships    
    
Moin GypsyComet,    
    
>   For those of you with the MegaTraveller Rebellion Sourcebook, the    
> Valor is the little fellow at the bottom of the picture on page 20,    
> and two more are to be found escorting the Voroshilef on page 82. The    
> class originally appeared in the FASA supplement "Adventure Class Ships,    
> Volume 1", a Classic Trav deckplan collection.    
    
	Never realised, but now ;-)    
    
>   The Fusilier is an Aurora Clipper that has had all of its modular    
> space filled in with a streamlined solid hull (at least as far as    
> general hull shape is concerned). Based on the numbers for the Clipper    
> I would place the Fusilier at about 2100 tons displacement.    
    
	Nope, its much bigger than a Midu. BR says 30 points means 6250dt.    
	The picture is also streamlined, and the ship is able to skim and    
	purify. The sister class Lancer has a meson gun, and BR stats of    
	6:9-6-3-X would give us a length of at least 180 meter.    
    
	The Fusilier carries a big PA (750 points damage), the Lance a    
	Meson Gun of only 400 points. Both ships have 20 turret lasers    
	20 sandcasters, 10 missile barbetts and a 500 point meson screen.    
	A Fusilier can stop a Midu, a Lancer not, but those raiding    
	collectives (RC) like meson guns, dont know why.    
    
>   The Leviathan is said to carry a "Light Brigade" but no size is    
> given beyond this clue. It either looks completely different from    
> the other ships of the RC, OR it looks like the Fusilier...    
    
	Would it be possible to "store" a light brigade in 1000 dt ?    
	Thats around the size of the PA&MG in the above ships.    
    
    
- --     
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe    
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "    
    
------------------------------    
    
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:38:13 -0600    
From: "K.C. Komosky" <umkomosk@cc.UManitoba.CA>    
Subject: RE: K'Kree?    
    
>Anyone have anygood Info. on the K'Kree?, Please    
>What I need the most is, How to make a NPC.    
    
	Well, many months ago I posted to the TML my translation of the original     
K'kree character generation rules into T4. Here they are again.    
    
K'kree Character Generation    
    
	Because of the extreme gregariousness of the K'kree, generating K'kree     
characters requires a very different generation process. In effect, you     
will not be generating a not a single K'kree, but an entire family - a     
leader, bodyguards, females, and servants - all at once. As well, the     
highly structured caste system of K'kree society has a profound effect on     
character generation.    
    
	The family patriarch should be generated first. He will be a noble on a     
roll of 5- (on 2D), otherwise he'll be well-born. His characteristics     
should be generated first. On a roll of 9-, he has caste - 1D wives     
(otherwise, there are no females in the family). A noble has servants to     
his caste, and bodyguards equal to his caste. A well-born has servants     
equal to half his caste, and bodyguards equal to half his caste.    
    
	Rolling up characteristics is the same as in T4, although with some     
changes. The stats are the same, except that the caste statistic replaces     
social standing. Caste represents the K'kree's position within their caste.     
Thus, a caste 2 noble outranks a caste 12 well-born. There are various     
modifiers to the different characteristics, depending on social standing     
and position. All characteristics have a lower limit of 15, and an upper     
limit of 15, except for strength and endurance which have upper limits of     
25.    
    
	When aquiring skills and experience, K'kree do not use enlistment,     
promotion or injury rolls. Because of the caste system, individual K'kree     
have no choice over what career they will take, so no enlistment rolls are     
necessary. Any military ranks are derived from the character's caste, so     
the only way to increase rank is to increase caste.    
    
	K'kree terms of service are 6 years long. During each term, noble and     
well-born characters receive one skill roll in each year of the term (6 per     
term), servant characters receive one skill roll every two years (3 per     
term), and females receive only one skill roll per term.    
    
	For each K'kree you pre-roll the numbers of term that will be served. All     
male characters serve their first term in the military. Bodyguards and     
military families serve all of their terms in the military. Any other males     
may serve subsequent terms in the military on a roll of 4- (on 2D), but     
they must serve one term out of the military.    
    
	Within each career path there are two separate career skill tables. When     
first entering the service, the character must decide which service the     
character will enter, and which career skill table they will use. They     
can't later choose to switch services and skill tables. The choice of     
service will also affect which mustering out table will be used.    
    
	Aging does not occur for K'kree until the age of 50, but then standard     
aging rules apply. As a result, K'kree do not age between 35 and 50, but     
then age at the same rate as their human counterparts.    
    
	Mustering out benefits are accrued as per the T4 rules. Only the patriarch     
receives mustering out rolls, but many of the benefits apply to the entire     
family.    
    
    
New Skills    
    
Diversion (Int or Caste) (females only) - Diversion covers the various     
activities that are esthetic and pleasing to K'kree society. It is     
essentially a measure of a female K'kree's value in the family.    
    
Enclosure (Int or End) - Enclosure is a measure of how accustomed the     
K'kree is to the psychological problems associated with being in small or     
cramped spaces, or other circumstances that would isolate them from other     
K'kree.    
	Enclosure-1 is received automatically the first time the character     
receives Ship's Boat, Vacc Suit or any vehicle skill (if the character does     
not already have Enclosure-1). For any K'kree the level of those three     
skills can not be higher than that K'kree's evel of Enclosure    
    
Tolerance (Int or End) - Tolerance is a measure of the K'kree's tolerance     
for non-K'kree customs and concepts. The level of tolerance is used as a     
modifier to reaction rolls involving aliens.    
    
Polearms - is a subset of the blades group.    
    
    
Mustering-Out Benefits    
    
Money: the cash value received is multiplied by the number of individuals     
in the family. That moneybelongs to the family collectively.    
    
Weapons: this benefit grants one weapon of the indicated type to each     
warrior/ bodyguard in the family.    
    
Characteristic Alteration: granted only to the patriarch.    
    
Skill: any one member of the family may make one extra skill roll on the     
tables from the last term of service. All males in the family musthave used     
this benefit before any individual can receive it a second time.    
    
Training: all members of the family receive one skill roll.    
    
Starships: denotes outright ownership of a K'kree Merchant, Transport or     
Courier. Subsequent roles are ignored.    
    
Tools: grants the technician and each servant worker a tool kit. Available     
tools include: mechanical tool kit, electronics tool kit, carpentry tool     
kit, metalwork tool kit, medical kit, hand computer, metal detector,     
radiation counter, chain saw, or similar items.    
    
===================================================    
                      Str    Dex End   Int     Edu   Caste    
Patriarch	     2D+6 2D 2D+6 2D+2 2D+2 2D    
Bodyguard 2D+6 2D 2D+6 2D-4  2D-4  2D    
Servant       2D+6 2D 2D+6 2D-4  2D-4  2D    
Female        2D+3 2D 2D+3 2D      2D-5 male's    
max               25     15    25     15       15    
    
Number of Terms    
Patriarch       1D+1    
Warriors       1D-3    
Bodyguards 1D-3    
Females         1D    
Others            1D+1    
    
Patriarch is noble on 5-, otherwise well-born. On 9-, patriarch has caste     
- -1D wives, and servants have caste-2D wives. Nobles have bodyguards and     
servants both equal to their caste, well-borns have bodyguards and servants     
both equal to half their caste (rounding up).    
    
Default skills:    
Noble Patriarch		Leader 1    
Well-born Patriarch	Admin 1    
Noble Warrior		Tactics 1    
Well-born Warrior	Leader 1    
Servant Warrior		Polearm 1    
Servant			Jack-of-all-Trades    
	    
==================================================    
Noble Warrior    
    
1. Physical    
  1. +1 Str    
  2. +1 Dex    
  3. +1 End    
  4. Blade Combat    
  5. Gun Combat    
  6. Enclosure    
    
2. Mental    
  1. Leadership    
  2. Academic    
  3. Exploration    
  4. Computer    
  5. Tactics    
  6. Science    
    
3. Education    
  1. Vacc Suit    
  2. Tactics    
  3. Astrogation    
  4. Sensors    
  5. Bureaucracy    
  6. Charisma    
    
4. Social    
  1. Leadership    
  2. Carousing    
  3. Gambling    
  4. Charisma    
  5. Diplomacy    
  6. +1 Caste    
    
5. Career - Space    
  1. Astrogation    
  2. Spacecraft    
  3. Computer    
  4. Sensors    
  5. Leadership    
  6. Environmental Combat    
    
5. Career - Ground    
  1. Gun Combat    
  2. Gon Combat    
  3. Tactics    
  4. Heavy Weapons    
  5. Battle Dress    
  6. Camouflage    
    
6. Background    
  1. Athletics    
  2. Language    
  3. Clandestine    
  4. Law    
  5. Performance    
  6. Vacc Suit    
    
    
Noble    
    
1. Physical    
  1. -1 Str    
  2. +1 Str    
  3. +1 Dex    
  4. +1 End    
  5. Polearm    
  6. Enclosure    
    
2. Mental    
  1. Science    
  2. Tolerance    
  3. Performance    
  4. Clandestine    
  5. Perception    
  6. Instruction    
    
3. Educational    
  1. Charisma    
  2. Leadership    
  3. Philosophy    
  4. Bureaucracy    
  5. Law    
  6. +1 Edu    
    
4. Social    
  1. Diplomacy    
  2. Administration    
  3. Charisma    
  4. Tolerance    
  5. Gambling    
  6. +1 Caste    
    
5. Career - Administration    
  1. Bureaucracy    
  2. Clandestine    
  3. Computer    
  4. Business    
  5. Administration    
  6. Jack-of-all-Trades    
    
5. Career - Government    
  1. Tolerance    
  2. Leadership    
  3. Bureaucracy    
  4. Diplomacy    
  5. Administration    
  6. Criminology    
    
6. Background    
  1. Gambling    
  2. Perception    
  3. Performance    
  4. Language    
  5. Watercraft    
  6. Grav Craft    
    
    
Well-Born Warrior    
    
1. Physical    
  1. +1 Str    
  2. +1 Dex    
  3. +1 End    
  4. Enclosure    
  5. Gun Combat    
  6. Brawling    
    
2. Mental    
  1. Sensors    
  2. Camoflague    
  3. Exploration    
  4. Science    
  5. First Aid    
  6. Enclosure    
    
3. Educational    
  1. Battle Dress    
  2. Reconaissance    
  3. Heavy Weapons    
  4. Spacecraft    
  5. Technical    
  6. Exploration    
    
4. Social    
  1. Gambling    
  2. Leadership    
  3. Bureaucracy    
  4. Instruction    
  5. Intimidation    
  6. +1 Caste    
    
5. Career - Space    
  1. Environmental Combat    
  2. Computer    
  3. Gunnery    
  4. Astrogation    
  5. Spacecraft    
  6. Technical    
    
5. Career - Ground    
  1. Gun Combat    
  2. Gun Combat    
  3. Blade Combat    
  4. Heavy Weapons    
  5. Camoflague    
  6. Throwing    
    
6. Background    
  1. Athletics    
  2. Performance    
  3. Vacc Suit    
  4. Streetwise    
  5. Brawling    
  6. Business    
    
    
Well-Born    
    
1. Physical    
  1. -1 Str    
  2. +1 Dex    
  3. +1 Dex    
  4. +1 End    
  5. Polearm    
  6. Brawling    
    
2. Mental    
  1. Technical    
  2. Science    
  3. Research    
  4. Tolerance    
  5. First Aid    
  6. Perception    
    
3. Educational    
  1. Business    
  2. Spacecraft    
  3. Law    
  4. Gravitics    
  5. Bureaucracy    
  6. Jack-of-all-Trades    
    
4. Social    
  1. Charisma    
  2. Streetwise    
  3. Gambling    
  4. Tolerance    
  5. Carousing    
  6. +1 Caste    
    
5. Career - Trader    
  1. Business    
  2. Spacecraft    
  3. Business    
  4. Diplomacy    
  5. Language    
  6. Tolerance    
    
5. Career - Technician    
  1. Technical    
  2. Technical    
  3. Medical    
  4. Science    
  5. Computer    
  6. Engineering    
    
6. Background    
  1. Polearm    
  2. Craftsman    
  3. Brawling    
  4. Grav Craft    
  5. Performance    
  6. Forgery    
    
    
Servant Warrior    
    
1. Physical    
  1. +1 Str    
  2. +1 Dex    
  3. +1 End    
  4. Enclosure    
  5. Gun Combat    
  6. Polearm    
    
2. Mental    
  1. Camoflague    
  2. Survival    
  3. Demolitions    
  4. First Aid    
  5. Recon    
  6. Computer    
    
3. Educational    
  1. Battle Dress    
  2. Forward Observer    
  3. Heavy Weapons    
  4. Environmental Combat    
  5. Vacc Suit    
  6. Technical    
    
4. Social    
  1. Carousing    
  2. Streetwise    
  3. Intimidation    
  4. Gambling    
  5. Interrogation    
  6. +1 Caste    
    
5. Career - Space    
  1. Gunnery    
  2. Gunnery    
  3. Enclosure    
  4. Ship's Boat    
  5. Vacc Suit    
  6. Gun Combat    
    
5. Career - Surface    
  1. Gun Combat    
  2. Gun Combat    
  3. Enclosure    
  4. Aircraft    
  5. Artillery    
  6. Battle Dress    
    
6. Background    
  1. Stealth    
  2. Ground Vehicle    
  3. Athletics    
  4. Brawling    
  5. Clandestine    
  6. Grav Craft    
    
    
Servant    
    
1. Physical    
  1. -1 Int    
  2. +1 Str    
  3. +1 End    
  4. +1 End    
  5. Brawling    
  6. Throwing    
    
2. Mental    
  1. Technical    
  2. Science    
  3. Forgery    
  4. Perception    
  5. Grav craft    
  6. Computer    
    
3. Educational    
  1. Bribery    
  2. Survival    
  3. Ground Vehicle    
  4. Enclosure    
  5. Jack-of-all-Trades    
  6. +1 Int    
    
4. Social    
  1. Carousing    
  2. Streetwise    
  3. Streetwise    
  4. Gambling    
  5. Fast Talk    
  6. Performance    
    
5. Career - Labourer    
  1. +1 Str    
  2. streetwise    
  3. Grav Vehicle    
  4. Ground Vehicle    
  5. Throwing    
  6. Jack-of-all-Trades    
    
5. Career - Worker    
  1. Technical    
  2. Mechanical    
  3. Electronics    
  4. +1 Dex    
  5. Gravitics    
  6. Jack-of-all-Trades    
    
6. Background    
  1. Brawling    
  2. Craftsman    
  3. Performance    
  4. Vacc Suit    
  5. Polearm    
  6. Tolerance    
    
Females    
Patriarch's Wife    
1. Diversion    
2. +1 Int    
3. Jack-of-all-Trades    
4. +1 Str    
5. Diversion    
6. +1 Edu    
    
Other Wife    
1. Medial    
2. Diversion    
3. Jack-of-all-Trades    
4. +1 Str    
5. Diversion    
6. +1 Dex    
    
    
Mustering Out Benefits    
    
	Noble Admin	Noble Gov't	Noble Warrior    
1	Skill		Skill		Skill    
2	+1 Int		+1 Int		+1 Int    
3	+1 Edu		+1 Edu		+1 Edu    
4	Polearm		Polearm		Gun    
5	Gun		Gun		Training    
6	+1 Caste		+2 Caste		+1 Caste    
7	+2 Caste		Courier		Transport    
     +1 for Space Service, -1 for Ground Service    
    
1	5000		5000		5000    
2	10000		10000		5000    
3	10000		10000		10000    
4	10000		20000		10000    
5	20000		20000		10000    
6	20000		20000		20000    
7	50000		40000		30000    
   + gambling skill    
    
Well-born    
	Trader		Technician	Warrior	    
1	Skill		Skill		Skill    
2	+1 Int		+1 Int		+1 Int    
3	+1 Edu		+1 Edu		+1 Edu    
4	Polearms	Polearms	Guns    
5	Guns		Guns		Training    
6	+1 Caste		Tools		+1 Caste    
7	Merchant	+2 Caste		Transport    
  +1 Space service, -1 ground service    
    
1	1000		1000		1000    
2	5000		1000		1000    
3	10000		5000		5000    
4	20000		10000		5000    
5	20000		10000		10000    
6	30000		20000		10000    
7	50000		30000		20000    
 + gambling skill    
    
------------------------------    
    
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:57:31 -0600    
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>    
Subject: Re: Kessel Run    
    
>Han says "standard timeparts" instead of "parsec".    
>    
>My guess is that Lucas wrote "standard timeparts" into the script,    
> but when they were shooting it, it didn't sound right coming out of    
> Harrison Ford's mouth.  So it got changed (on the spot, probably)    
> to the first thing that Lucas could think of that sounded better.    
> Thus "parsec", which sounds vaguely technical and time-like.    
    
    
Or, perhaps this is another translation error.  Perhaps what he actually    
said was "parasec" which has gotten garbled to "parsec."    
    
You know, like pseudovelocity.    
    
Or maybe not.    
    
------------------------------    
    
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 98 19:44:02 -0600    
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    
Subject: Re: Art Portfolio    
    
On 01/06/98 at 05:17 PM,  SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com> said:    
    
>Didn't even need to go into post-modernism or expressionism or any of the    
>other things that aren't needed in a roleplaying book.  I don't think    
>anyone was actually saying, "Hey, I'd like to see some cubist portraits of    
>Imperial Marines in my next Trav book" anyway.  I think illustrative    
>_art_work is needed in any RPG.  Not merely technical illustrations.    
    
Have it your way, as I said illustration *can* be artistic as well.    
However, melting spaceships are *not* illustrative..unless they're    
melting..;->..and I can't say I care for the artistic vision either, but    
that's MO.    
    
>(As a note, I _like_ technical illustrations quite a bit.  I like the look    
>of schematics and diagrams and all that good stuff.  I just don't think    
>that's all that should be in a Traveller book)    
    
Neither do I. However, the art in Traveller books should be representative    
of the people and equipment in the Traveller universe. The art should not    
be grafted onto Traveller from non-Traveller universes. All IMO.    
    
Eris    
- --     
- -----------------------------------------------------------    
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245    
- -----------------------------------------------------------    
    
------------------------------    
    
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 15:01:00 +1300    
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>    
Subject: Re: Imperium Games can work e-mail!!!!!    
    
>Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 14:21:33 -0800    
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>    
>Subject: Re: Imperium Games can work e-mail!!!!!    
>    
>At 09:02 AM 1/7/98 +1300, you wrote:    
>>I got back from a need break yesterday. I looked at my email, in hope that    
>>IG had finally decided to answer my queries. Nothing, but I did notice    
>>Rob's post to the TML taking things further. So I regretfully decided that    
>>time had come to start getting heavy. But it was late at night so I had to    
>>wait. I got up this morning, checked my email and lo and behold; a message    
>>from IG replying to my enquiries!!!!!!!!! Has anyone else been contacted?    
    
>Well, what did they say?    
    
Not a heck of a lot actually. Basically it was a simple acknowledgement of    
my enquiry. They said they were looking into the matter and asked had I got    
the books yet. Oh and an apology for the problems. Well, at least it proves    
that there is still someone alive at IG HQ.    
    
  Andrew etc.    
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz    
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm (general)    
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/abuse/abuse.htm (sexual abuse pages)    
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/traveller.htm (Traveller pages)    
    
****************************************************************************    
We're digging a hole in the road, you can't go up, you can't go down    
you'll have to wait to drive around    
****************************************************************************    
    
------------------------------    
    
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 11:49:47    
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>    
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2203    
    
>From: "Chris Cox" <chriscox@ix.netcom.com>    
>Subject: Re: Barbie Stuff    
>    
    
>and from Ian Whitchurch    
>>Subject: Barbie's Own Particle Accelerator Rifle    
>>    
>>4 cm long, 0.5 cm diameter, 500 joules output.    
>    
>    
>4 cm long and your calling this a rifle?  The barrel on my 12" fully    
>poseable Princess Leia figure's blaster is about 7 cm with a barrel length    
>of about 5 cm.    
>    
>I think it fairly obvious, that despite having achieve a mastery of FF&S    
>designing, you all still have a lot to learn about Barbie 8^)    
    
Hey, Ditzie (from whom this design came) works in High Energy Solutions    
(well, in her case Hiiiiii Energy-wenergy Soluuuutions). Whether you call    
it "Barbie's Own Blaster Rifle" or "Barbie's Own Purse-Size Blaster Pistol"    
is for Marketing (aka Maaaaaaaaarketing).    
    
>    
>Chris "The toy junkie" Cox    
>(chriscox@ix.netcom.com)    
    
We are sad puppies, you know that ?    
    
    
Ian "I wonder if Barbie's Agent doll has her in drag" Whitchurch    
    
------------------------------    
    
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:48:32 +1100    
From: Jason Anderson <midnight@kagi.com>    
Subject: TNE novels    
    
Hi all,    
    
I've recently purchased two of the novels which GDW put out for TNE (The    
Death of Wisdom and To Dream of Chaos). I was wondering if GDW ever put out    
the third novel of the series? (I can't remember the name off the top of my    
head).    
    
Thanks,    
Jason    
    
- -------    
Beyond Midnight Software                               <midnight@kagi.com>    
                                      <http://www.vision.net.au/~midnight>    
    
             If it's not on fire then it's a software problem.    
    
------------------------------    
    
End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2206    
***********************************    
    
To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:    
    
unsubscribe traveller-digest    
    
in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want    
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,    
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the    
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":    
    
subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net    
    
A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to    
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"    
in the commands above with "traveller".    
    
Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com    
Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 7 1998     Volume 1997 : Number 2207



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Call for NPC's
Re: Jumping away from pirates
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Barbie=81's_Own_Flying_Saucer_II?=
Re: TNE novels
Re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design
Re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design
Re: Hello...Is anyone out there?
Re: TNE novels
Astronomy & Brown Dwarves
Re: Art Portfolio
Re: Barbie in Spaaaaace!
Re: Coalition ships
Re: Formulas
Re: Jumping away from pirates
Re: Hello...Is anyone out there?
Re: Cylons in TNE
Re: Kessel Run
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2170
Re: K'Kree?
Re: K'Kree?
Re: K'Kree?
> Re: Starship Troopers

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:21:40 -0500
From: "Daniel Poulin" <pould@netcom.ca>
Subject: Re: Call for NPC's

My favorite one is an NPC that was published in JTAS 14: Finger.  

Free Trader
Lothario Lochinvar Finger
A8DA56

Here is a small description of what is the character: Finger is, at first
glance, the very prototype of the Falstaffian, jolly-good-fellow star
trader, and he likes to projet exactly that image.  He is a bit more than a
good drinking body.

I modified the encounter a little bit to make Finger different, in my
campaign he is called Fingers Jones.  Fingers has two interests in life:
acquisition and sale of "goodies" (little technological items that are one
of a kind) and the acquisition of knowledge.  He always look like he has a
few items for sale (one of the items he sold my players is a bottle that
seem to produce an endless supply of alcohol after you put water inside
(what they don,t know is that the inside of the bottle is coated with a
microrganism that breaksdown water molecule and turns them into 40 proof
alcohol.  While it does not appear like much at first, imagine what will
happen after a few of these micro organisms infect the water supply of the
ship...)).  

As to the second aspect (the acquisition of knowledge) he always seem to
know everything about everybody.  He will refuse not to sell information. 
In my campaign (Spinward Marches, 1105), he actually has some ideas about
the infighting in the Navy (Naval Intelligence vs Naval Information) or
about the tug of power between Norris and Santanocheev.  For some strange
reason, Fingers has never been bothered by the authorities about his
knowledge.

As to the psionic aspect of the character, the description in the JTAS no:
14 indicates that if anyone attempts to read his mind, they will get random
bits of information but nothing coherent.  He doesn't how this is produced.
 

I have had a lot of fun with this NPC.


Daniel Poulin
pould@netcom.ca

- ----------
> From: Justin Durkan <jdurkan@iol.ie>
> To: Traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Call for NPC's
> Date: 6 janv. 1998 13:05
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I posted a request to the list a while back. Due to a purge disk failure
> I've missed out on a few unread digests. I'll place the request again.
> 
> What are the favoured NPC's that TMLer's use in their campaigns?
> 
> I'm actually looking for NPC's to use in my own campaign so I hope people
> won't mind me using them. My campaign is based around a secret society
> associated with the psionic institutes. The high-ups in it are nobles
based
> in the spinward marches and seeking the emancipation of psionicists
through
> the overthrow of the Imperium in this region and the the transfer of
power
> of the marches over to the Zhos.
> 
> The high ups, the intermediaries and the foot soldiers of this
organisation
> are candidates for any NPC's that any TMLer's would care to reply.
> 
> BTW, the society, and the campaign, is called "Brothers Behind The Claw"
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> /Justin Durkan
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:15:43 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Jumping away from pirates

    "The [jump] drive is connected to the hull grid network.  The jump drive
requires fuel (liquid hydrogen) and energy...  The amount of energy required
to initiate a jump is equal to 64MJ per cubic meter per parsec jumped.  This
energy must be provided to the drive in an hour or less (meaning that a
starship must have 0.018 MW of power plant per cubic meter per jump number).
    "Once in jumpspace, the jump drive maintains a small bubble of real
space around the ship, using power input to the jump drive from the power
plant (0,018 MW per cubic meter per jump number).  If the power to the jump
drive is interrupted, the bubble collapses, causing jump sickness, death of
crewmembers, misjump, damage, or destruction of the ship (any or all of
these, at the referee's option)." (FF&S p 12)

Hope this helps.
_______________

I must be Travelling,

Richard
_______________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 20:33:23 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Barbie=81's_Own_Flying_Saucer_II?=

At 02:50 PM 1/6/98 -0800, Kenji gave the group trying to get him committed
more ammo:

>Sensors: 1xPEMS (12.5 [1.6mkm], 0.00MW). 1xAEMS (8, 0.03MW).
                                                  ^^^^^^^^^^

So we're going to make sure little Sally doesn't become a teen mother by
sterilizing her while she dreams of far of stars, eh?

>Signatures: Vis:-1.5, IR:-1.0 (-1.5 at 0MW), Act:0.0, Neu:-1, Grav:-2

I am truely awed by the fact that the Coronation is harder to detect in a
few categories...

- --

  Douglas E. Berry                              dberry@hooked.net
             http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/index.html
********************************************************************
Equation for finding the value of "chimp"                     .-"-.
                                                             /.-.-.\_
chimp=(a+x) + t6 (w+zm) - 4                                ( ( o o ) )
a is equal to the sum of the numbers in the current time     |/ " \|
(in military time) e.g. if the time is 17:22 then the value  \'---'/
of a=12, x is current temperature, t is # of turtles within  /`"""`\
one square mile (if any), w is size of wombat involved (in inches)
z is a reddish color, m is the ratio between your height relative
to the chimp in question.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:22:35 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: TNE novels

>I've recently purchased two of the novels which GDW put out for TNE (The
>Death of Wisdom and To Dream of Chaos). I was wondering if GDW ever put out
>the third novel of the series? (I can't remember the name off the top of my
>head).

Alas, no.  I for one wish they had, I really enjoyed these books, and I
didn't even like the TNE setting!

			Zane


| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                       |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them.    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html            |

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:50:44 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design

In a message dated 98-01-06 16:42:58 EST, you write:

<< 
 I *definitely* would like to keep the basis for combat being
 detect-lock-fire, _please_ don't water it down to just a basic "to hit"
 task roll. Don't skip the important considerations of detection with
 active/passive sensors, keeping a fire control lock on target, *then*
 firing.
 
  >>
TNAS TSCS postulates a snsor phase which produces detection lock, followed by
combat.


Marc

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:49:39 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design

In a message dated 98-01-06 16:42:58 EST, you write:

<< A couple questions, to Marc and the list in general:
 
 1. Is Wildstar still working on QSDS v2, or has this become vapourware?
 ;-)
 
 2. If 1. is true, will this be considered as the new ship design system
 to be included in T4.1?

I am writing the system that will be in T4.1. I call it TNAS and it will be
integrated with TSCS. The details arebased on FF&S 2 (with consultation with
Dave Golden) but plug & play.
 
 3. Has anyone been using the RPSCS (Role-playing ship combat system), or
 done any other work on it? (latest version I've seen is 0.9)

Marc hasn't.

 4. Will the RPSCS be considered as the basis of the new ship combat
 system?

Not to my knowledge.

Marc

  >>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 07:12:46 +0000
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@friko.onet.pl>
Subject: Re: Hello...Is anyone out there?

On  6 Jan 98, Andrew Boulton disseminated foul capitalist propaganda 
by writing:

<snip>

> > I ordered it and read it the day before we went to see the preview. Once I
> > managed to disconnect the memories of the book, the film was okay (if you
> > ignore the obvious stupidities like not nuking the Bug's homeworld).
> 
> Not quite as dumb as sending in infantry with no heavy weapons, no
> AFVs, and no air support.

Well, the MI were their own heavy weapons, AFVs and air support. 

In the book, anyway. 

I'm waiting for the ST to show up on my Canal +, or on video... 
(Though I'm not sure if I want to shell out, like, $2 for Verhoeven's 
twisted version of the book... I mean, no armour... NO ARMOUR, for 
Pete's sake!!! Awww! I think I'm gonna cwy... Sniff...)


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@friko.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike; 
 Star Wars fan and Amber junkie; FIAWOL; WTF TKD TOO; 
 FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (SS) (PC) (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
  City planners do it with their eyes shut. 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:50:09 +0000
From: "Will" <panzer@mail.sisna.com>
Subject: Re: TNE novels

> 
> I've recently purchased two of the novels which GDW put out for TNE (The
> Death of Wisdom and To Dream of Chaos). I was wondering if GDW ever put out
> the third novel of the series? (I can't remember the name off the top of my
> head).
> 
If I can recall "No
They stoped at To Dream of Chaos
  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:57:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Vassilakos <jimv@e2.empirenet.com>
Subject: Astronomy & Brown Dwarves

A little bit off topic perhaps, but I'm working on my 3d-starmap
data, and I've stumbled into a little quandary regarding the
inclusion (or exclusion) of brown dwarves. As some of you may know,
brown dwarves are those "failed stars" as it were... stars that
might have been, except that they were too small, never got nuclear
fusion going, and so ended up not being stars at all. These brown
dwarves have anywhere from 10-84 times the mass of Jupiter and
could conceivably have a planetary disk, however, all the worlds of
such a system would be shrouded in perpetual darkness.

As might be expected, astronomers can't see such (non)star systems,
as there isn't any light being generated to touch their telescopes,
however, some people think that the presence of brown dwarf
systems, in ample quantity, could account for a sizable portion of
the "dark matter" astronomers believe is out there. Likewise, one
might speculate that a nearby brown dwarf could explain some of the
"wobble" in pluto's orbit that once led to speculation about a
"Planet X" which has never been discovered. Unfortunately, I'm not
schooled in either astronomy or physics, so I can't personally
theorize as to the number of brown dwarf systems which are out
there. This is where I need help from those of you know something
about astronomy and physics.

Do you think: (1) brown dwarfs systems are exceedingly rare, that
usually, if a brown dwarf occurs, it'll be orbiting a star, not out
in interstellar space, (2) brown dwarf systems do happen, but they
are no more common than normal star systems, (3) brown dwarf
systems are very common, more common than "normal" star systems...
perhaps much more common, (4) perhaps more than a thousand times
as common...

This question has obvious importance for any sfrpg, because if they
are common, then brown dwarves would represent possible deep space
fueling stations for interstellar craft. There could even be an
entire society of belters and whatnot living in a brown dwarf
system. Such entities would be too important to leave off the
starcharts.

So... any takers?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:08:51 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Art Portfolio

Semo wrote:
[big snip]
>other things that aren't needed in a roleplaying book.  I don't think anyone
>was actually saying, "Hey, I'd like to see some cubist portraits of Imperial
>Marines in my next Trav book" anyway.  I think illustrative _art_work is

Hey!  Now that you mention it -- I'd LOVE to see cubism become the IG
"house school" of art.  It'd be way cool.  Definitely make it stand out
from all its competitors.


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:08:40 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Barbie in Spaaaaace!

>In mail Kenji writes:
>
>>>The Templars hold her image sacred, equating her with Sophia or Barbello (!)
>>>of the Terran gnostics.  Barbie's ecstatic union with Ken dissolves all
>>>existence into the Pleroma.  Or so it is claimed...
>>
>> I hesitate to ask -- but only briefly: what's the esoteric significance of
>> Barbie and Ken being non-anatomically correct (between the legs, I mean)?
>>
>> (Mr. Erickson, I beg you to keep your absolutely disgusting suggestions to
>> yourself!)
>
>I'm not going to suggest anything. I will point out that you might want
>to consider the Skopty sect in Russia (and other, similar movements) as
>a possible explanation. :-)

Yes; brilliant!  Those who truly seek mystical union with Her must,
obviously, well, bring themselves closer to the state of Kenhood.
Presumably they have vinyl underwear melted onto their flesh as well.


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:17:52 EST
From: GypsyComet <GypsyComet@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Coalition ships

kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne) says:

>>   The Fusilier is an Aurora Clipper that has had all of its modular
>> space filled in with a streamlined solid hull (at least as far as
>> general hull shape is concerned). Based on the numbers for the Clipper
>> I would place the Fusilier at about 2100 tons displacement.
>
>	Nope, its much bigger than a Midu. BR says 30 points means 6250dt.
>	The picture is also streamlined, and the ship is able to skim and
>	purify. The sister class Lancer has a meson gun, and BR stats of
>	6:9-6-3-X would give us a length of at least 180 meter.
>
>	The Fusilier carries a big PA (750 points damage), the Lance a
>	Meson Gun of only 400 points. Both ships have 20 turret lasers
>	20 sandcasters, 10 missile barbetts and a 500 point meson screen.
>	A Fusilier can stop a Midu, a Lancer not, but those raiding
>	collectives (RC) like meson guns, dont know why.

  My estimate was based strictly on the size of a full Aurora, which
is, according to Path of Tears, the basis for the Lancer/Fusilier.
Your reference caused me to pull out Battle Rider and look. The
Fusilier/Lancer is included (with a picture!), and does indeed have
several stats that are superior to the 3000ton Midu Agashaam (see
Supplement 9: Fighting Ships, page 16) and the 1000ton Chrysanthemum
(same book, page 14).
  Based on the picture on the counter, it could indeed be that big,
since a fully loaded Aurora is pretty puny looking next to it. It is
going to be roughly the same length, so for argument sake I dug into
FF&S-1. A Needle hull would need to be 8000tons to get the aparently
needed 180 meter length. That is adding a LOT of meat to the bony
Aurora. We could plead fuzzy rounding rules and get that down to a
7000ton hull (171m hull, space range of Meson spinal 5-2/3 hexes) or
maybe all the way to 6500tons (165m hull, Meson range 5.5 hexes).
the tonnage suggested by the BR point value (6250tons) leads to a
length of 162m (Meson range 5.4 hexes). We CAN get away with this
because the Aurora is getting away with it. At 144 meters long, its
BR range is listed as 5, when it is really slightly below 4.5.
  This is still twice the size of a Midu Agashaam and three times
the size of the original Aurora fully loaded. Ain't streamlining
marvelous?
  I note also that the Lancer/Fusilier is listed as having limited
maneuver. What ARE they filling all that space with, if not with 
reaction mass?

GypsyComet
(who is not interested in doing the full FF&S1 stats tonight...)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:04:12 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Formulas

In mail you write:

> Uhhh...remember folks...no one's actually determined that these 'close-in'
> planets are gas giants, merely 'Jupiter _sized_' or more accurately,
> 'Jupiter massed', and even their existence is still somewhat in dispute.
> There's still only indirect evidence of these planets.

On the other hand, a "jupiter massed" rocky world is even harder to
explain. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:16:16 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Jumping away from pirates

In mail you write:

>>ie, once the jump cycle starts, you can predict within a few thousand km
>>where the ship will be when it jumps (and when).
>
> I don't see how that follows.  My recollection is that jump destination is
> affected by gravity, velocity, and direction of travel.  Fleets of ships
> jumping together can coordinate such that they arrive at *approximately*
> the same time and space, but that is not the same as observing a ship jump
> *then* basing your own jump factors on intercepting them.  In fact, I would
> say this is non-canonical.

I think he means that if you know when the ship starts the jump cycle,
you'll know where it'll be *when it jumps*, not where it'll come out. 

That seems fairly reasonable. Only thing is, I can't see that there's
anything observable when you start charging the drive. It's when you
start dumping the power into the jump grid (or creating the jump field,
depending on which vwersion of jump drives you use) that the "visible"
effects start.

>>Just aborting the jump cycle has problems, because all that energy is
>>going to melt something if you don't use it to enter jumpspace.
>
> Again, the jump capacitor thing contradicts this, but certainly if such
> capacitors do not exist the energy must go somewhere; and recent
> discussions showed that radiating energy into space has serious limits.

I submit that you *can* dump the energy, but only at the cost of
dumping all your spare fuel/water as *hot* plasma. That's not the sort
of thing you can do as a "normal" means of getting rid of heat. But it
beats what'll happen to the ship if you *can't* dump the energy.

This also means that pirates would rather *not* go after a ship that's
gotten much of the power for jump stored. If a weapons hit damages the
capacitors/HPGs/whatever, it'll likely ruin the ship and cargo. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 07:47:03 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Hello...Is anyone out there?

 aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton) wrote:

>Ordering from the US is no problem, but I thought I read somewhere that it
>had been re-issued. I'll check.

It has, in the US at least.

>> I ordered it and read it the day before we went to see the preview. Once I
>> managed to disconnect the memories of the book, the film was okay (if you
>> ignore the obvious stupidities like not nuking the Bug's homeworld).
>
>Not quite as dumb as sending in infantry with no heavy weapons, no AFVs, and
>no air support. (*)

Why send in the infantry at all if you can stand off and turn their
homeworld to glass? As they were throwing asteroids at earth at the same
time, it seems a legit response. In fact, IIRC they don't do this in the
book because they don't want to harm any PoWs. The fleet gets to Klendathu
without any problems at all, so remember "let's take off and nuke it from
orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

(*) Not to mention getting them to group nicely together, or abandon their
fixed defenses before they could escape.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:31:41 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Cylons in TNE

>>I also recall reading somewhere that the per episode cost of Battlestar
>>Galatica was $1million due to the cost of the effects.
>
>   That number is correct, or at least pretty close, and I'm not even sure
>if that included cast salaries.  It was definately a factor in the ABC
>network deciding to cancel the series (despite its Star Trek-like "hardcore
>following").  It also explains why the emphasis of "Galactica: 1980" was on

One of the big costs in the show was the bridge of the Galactica, it
contained several Million dollars of Tektronix test equipment.  Originally
the show was intended to be 3 parts, the first part being the 3 hour
original show, the 2 hour show where they discovered Kobol, and a third 2
hour show (no idea what it was supposed to be).  The network executives
were so impressed with the first 3 hour show they made it a series.

Later parts were cut out of the original 3 hour show to shorten it, and it
was shown in Theaters.  I still have fond memories of being able to feel
the Galactica ROAR through space, in the theatre I saw it in!

I always thought it strange they took it from TV and put the shortened
version in the Theatre.  Sort of the opposite of Buck Rodgers, where it
went from being a movie to I believe the first two episodes of the TV show.

				Zane

| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                       |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them.    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html            |

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 04:20:01 -0500 (EST)
From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Re: Kessel Run

Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com> said,

>I have (somewhere) a first printing of
>the novelization of Star Wars (also by Lucas - remember, he was producer,
>director, screenwriter, and wrote the novelization).  In the novelization,
>Han says "standard timeparts" instead of "parsec".

According to the Clute/Nicholls _Encyclopedia of Science Fiction_, the Star
Wars novelization is "attributed to Lucas but rumoured to have been written
by Alan Dean Foster". Seems quite likely; Foster is the acknowleged king of
SF movie novelizations. Note also that he wrote the first Star Wars tie-in
novel, _Splinter in the Minds Eye_. I suspect that a close comparison of
the style and diction of the two books would clinch the argument.

Personally, I refuse to believe Lucas wrote the book - the "standard
timeparts" line is a dead giveaway. The screenplay is full of unspeakable
dialogue and misused terminology, not only "parsecs", but also "droids"
(from "android" - which the droids definitely aren't), "turbo lasers" (eh,
what?), and "She'll make point five past lightspeed" (gee, that'll get us
there in about, oh, five hundred years?).

According to a recent TV documentary, the actors tried to get Lucas to fix
up the dialogue - at least to make it easier to spit out. But Lucas
*refused* to change a word. He just didn't care. The effects, the costumes,
the lighting, the atmosphere - these are things Lucas cared about. Good
dialogue seems to have been low on his list of concerns. It could be argued
that this is appropriate, in keeping with the sci-fi adventure serials on
which _Star Wars_ was modelled.

Alan Dean Foster, on the other hand, is a professional SF writer (though
merely a competent one, IMO), and I imagine he couldn't bring himself to so
blatantly mis-use the word "parsecs". His SFFWA friends would all laugh at
him.

I know I would.

+ GMG +

    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
        "...a starship, a robot, two sex toys, and a gun:
      the raw, heady essence of interstellar civilization."
                        --Kenji Schwarz

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 19:18:40
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2170

>Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 02:14:20 PST
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: Space Combat Issues
>
>In mail you write:
>
>> Couple more issues for space combat. If I've missed them somewhere, tell
me.
>>
>> (1) DV at range for nuke warheas in vacuum. This is a critical issue for
>> using nuke missiles for counter-missile work in space.
>
>Depends on what sort of "damage" you are talking about. For example a
>medium sized nuclear warhead turns out to be *lethal* to unshielded
>personnel at something like 10-15 *thousand* km!
>
>This is because 90% of the energy output of a nuke is X-rays. In an
>atmosphere, they get absorbed within a few meters, heat the air to the
>extreme temps you see in the fireballs, and causing the blast wave as
>the air expands.
>
>For material damage, you'll need to be close enough to absorb enough
>xrays to "cook" electronics, or overheat the hull. At *really* close
>ranges the X-ray pulse out to cause an outer layer of the hull to
>vaporise, doing blast damage to the hiull. But I suspect that the range
>required for that is well under a km.

Putting my question more succinctly ... at what range could a 100 kiloton
nuke warhead completely destroy a det laser missile with one centimeter
thick hull of
superdense ? At what range could it fry the electronics on board ?

The question is important, becasue it will determine the "spacing" of
missiles,
in order that one defending nuke missile doesnt take out multiple attacking
missiles.

Ian Whitchurch 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 01:23:08 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: K'Kree?

Thank you VERY much for those notes on the K'Kree.  I have next to
nothing on any Traveller Races at all, having missied the alien modules.

I do have MegaTraveller Supplement, "Vilani & Vargr", but that's it.
I would love to see stats on the other races.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 03:55:40 +0000
From: "Will" <panzer@mail.sisna.com>
Subject: Re: K'Kree?

> Thank you VERY much for those notes on the K'Kree.  I have next to
> nothing on any Traveller Races at all, having missied the alien modules.
> 
> I do have MegaTraveller Supplement, "Vilani & Vargr", but that's it.
> I would love to see stats on the other races.
> 
Samehere with me, I lost all my CT modules back in 89'
Has anyone done more with the major races?

This would be a major bost to my game :-)

Thanks

Will

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 03:55:40 +0000
From: "Will" <panzer@mail.sisna.com>
Subject: Re: K'Kree?

> vielen Dank f=FCr jene Anmerkungen auf dem K'Kree. Ich habe nahe bei > n=
ichts auf allen
m=F6glichen Laufst=FCckrennen an allen und habe missied die ausl=E4ndische=
n Module. 

> habe ich MegaTraveller-Erg=E4nzung, " Vilani u. Vargr ", aber das ist es=
 > ich w=FCrde lieben, stats
auf den anderen Rennen zu sehen. 

Samehere mit mir, ich alle meine CT-Module zur=FCck in 89 ' hat verlor jem=
and getan mehr mit den
Hauptrennen? 

Dieses w=FCrde ein Hauptbost zu meinem Spiel:- sein), 

Dank 

" neuer TNE Aktualisierungsvorgang " Willenslaufst=FCck-homepage
http://www.sisna.com/users/panzer/t4.htm 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 06:43:30 -0500
From: Robin Cantin <rcantin@oricom.ca>
Subject: > Re: Starship Troopers

To you starship trooper fans, a boardgame has also been released just
before Christmas. With characters of the movie, standard gimmick.

Robin


Webmaster of the Direct Democracy Pages
http://www.oricom.ca/~rcantin/AIntro.html
Les Pages Democratie Directe
http://www.oricom.ca/~rcantin/Introduction.html

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2207
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 7 1998     Volume 1997 : Number 2208



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Starship Troopers
Re: Jumping away from pirates
Re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design
RE: K'Kree?
re: Kessel run
Re: Jumping away from pirates
Re: Call for NPC's
re: TNE novels
Re: Formulas
Welcom Andy Slack
Re: Imperium Games can work e-mail!!!!!
New 101 Books
Classic Traveller: sandcasters
Traveller Artwork recommendation
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2206
Re: Traveller PBM / PBEM
RE: Traveller-digest V1997 #2203
Re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design
Re: Astronomy & Brown Dwarves
Annic Nova
Re: K'Kree?
Crew accomodations

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:19:51 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Re: Starship Troopers

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/07/98 12:19 PM

Checked out my local bookshop over lunch - the UK version is published by
NEL and
retails for #5.99, ISBN 0-450-00573-9.

IMHO, the definitive work on powered armour and the best thing RH ever
wrote.

For nitpickers: The back cover blurb says it's set 5,000 years in the
future, from memory RH placed it 5,000 years after Sargon the Great, which
I make around the 24th/25th century AD.

On the bounce, troopers!
Andy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 12:38:11 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Jumping away from pirates

>Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:39:51 -0500
>From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>

<snip>

>>ie, once the jump cycle starts, you can predict within a few thousand km
>>where the ship will be when it jumps (and when).
>
>I don't see how that follows.  My recollection is that jump destination is
>affected by gravity, velocity, and direction of travel.  Fleets of ships
>jumping together can coordinate such that they arrive at *approximately*
>the same time and space, but that is not the same as observing a ship jump
>*then* basing your own jump factors on intercepting them.  In fact, I would
>say this is non-canonical.
>
Oops, sorry I was unclear.

I mean that you know where the target ship will be when it leaves the system.

You are quite correct that you don't have a clue where its going or when it
will
arrive there.

Most merchants cannot significantly charge their jump capacitors until they
turn
off their thrusters, so once they start coasting, you can expect jump
capability
after one hour.

It is a significant point, because if you can't hold the energy for a long
time,
you can't charge the capacitors, attempt a bit of piracy, then jump out if
it all
goes wrong.

Phil
- --
  Mailto:Philk@btinternet.com (don't blame BT - they only pay me:)
  Get out of the Way! Another Salvo bandwagon is beginning to roll.
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 13:43:07 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design

At 00:49 1998-01-07 EST, Marc wrote:
>I am writing the system that will be in T4.1. I call it TNAS and it will be
>integrated with TSCS. The details arebased on FF&S 2 (with consultation=
 with
>Dave Golden) but plug & play.
                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^

ARRGH !

* Are you sure you want to add this piece of hardware ?

Yes

* Are you aware that laser weapons can seriously damage property and
personell of your targets ?

YES

* Do you still want to add this piece of hardware ?

YES !!!!

:-)


Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm  (Link=F6ping, Sweden)
E-mail: jenry023@student.liu.se
UIN: 3844745   Get ICQ at http://www.mirabilis.com
Homepage: http://spacejens.ml.org
- ---------------------------------------------
"And I froze there, crouching in the small of plastique from the bolts,
because that was when the Fear found me, really found me, for the first=
 time"

Hinterlands, William Gibson
- ---------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:04:43 -0500 
From: "Svenson, Gregory (FL51)" <gsvenson@space.honeywell.com>
Subject: RE: K'Kree?

> -----Original Message-----
> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:38:13 -0600
> From: "K.C. Komosky" <umkomosk@cc.UManitoba.CA>
> Subject: RE: K'Kree?
> 
> >Anyone have anygood Info. on the K'Kree?, Please
> >What I need the most is, How to make a NPC.
> 
> 	Well, many months ago I posted to the TML my translation of the
> original 
> K'kree character generation rules into T4. Here they are again.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------ >8  excellent work on K'kree cut
> 8<-----------------
> 
	Thanks, this is excellent work on the K'kree. You must have
posted your original message before I joined the list.

	Keep up the good work!

	Thanks again,
	Greg
>  
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:10:12 +0000
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: re: Kessel run

I'd written:
>> I quite liked it as a bit of handwaving (but then I appear to be one of
the
>>  few who could be [just about] persuaded by the M0 Campaign's
>>  rationale on law level in the data), however Mr Hale is quite right, as
I
>> understood it, *originally* it was just an error.
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:
>Actually, what I've read is that Lucas knew darn well that it was an
>error, and put it in with the intent of showing that Han wasn't as
>bright as he thought he was. Alas, it didn't occur to him that anybody
>who knew what a parsec was *wouldn't* believe that a pilot could be
>*that* ignorant.

That's what I like about TML, the constant revelation that my knowledge is
so limited!

Still it's nice to know that George Lucas could make an error in
overestimating fan's credulity even if he didn't make an error with the
unit in the first place.

Also, fun to think of Han not really being that bright after all.  Gives
hope to the dimmest of us.  Perhaps one day Marc will reveal that Cleon
wasn't as good an Emporer as he thought he was!

tc

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 13:11:48 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Jumping away from pirates

>Date: Tue, 6 Jan 98 03:05 
>From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
>
>Moin Phil Kitching,
>
>> For all those of you who think that you just jump from a pirate before
>> 100 dia, remember that you need 64MJ/m3/parsec stored in the capacitors.
>> Most civilian ships require about 1 hour to generate this and don't have
>> the power to generate it any quicker.
>
>	this can only be half of the bill, the reason is simple :

<useful stuff about why the Jump Capacitors can't store all the energy at
once snipped>
	
>	But also in T4 should be clear, that trying to store 64*m3*parsec Mj
>	at once in the jump drive HPG, would cause 2d20 major hits in jump
>	drive and power plant, because of HPG overcharge - for further
>	reference see the black globe chapter.
>
>- -- 
> mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
>		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "
>
So unless the ship has enough energy to do everything at once (ie about twice
as much as your average merchant needs) - once you turn on the jump drives
the ship starts coasting and one hour later it either jumps, misjumps or
spreads itself thinly across the galaxy.

Possibly, a jump 3 ship can energise jump 1 in twenty minutes (if so, I'll
keep that
thought in mind 'cos the PCs in he campaign I am preparing will have jump 3).

- ------ Advertisment ------
Postmark Design Bureau
Laser Communications Divison
"When that message must get through"

A recommendation from one of our customers:
"I wouldn't want to be coasting for an hour within effective range
of a Telstar XII Communications Satellite" - Captain L.J. Silver (retired)

- --
  Mailto:Philk@btinternet.com (don't blame BT - they only pay me:)
  Why shoot at a Vargr ship without warning?
  If the captain doesn't put his head out of the window, it must be a
  pirate trying to achieve surprise :)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 06:26:11 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Call for NPC's

On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Daniel Poulin wrote:

>(one of the items he sold my players is a bottle that
> seem to produce an endless supply of alcohol after you put water inside
> (what they don,t know is that the inside of the bottle is coated with a
> microrganism that breaksdown water molecule and turns them into 40 proof
> alcohol.  While it does not appear like much at first, imagine what will
> happen after a few of these micro organisms infect the water supply of the
> ship...)).  

Oooohh the biochemist in me cringes...you can't 'break down' water and get
alcohol...still need a some carbons in there. Once you do that all the
'microorganism' is is good 'ol yeast. Now immobilized yeast enzymes (say
in a membrane on the inside of the container) that can produce 40 proof
out of water and a carbon source (aka nicely malted and roasted barley ...
hey I'm partial to stouts!) in the bottle, at room temp, without all the
potential messiness of normal brewing procedures...now THAT would be a toy
worth having.

Wouldn't infect the water supply, but oh man if it did...the crew'd die
happy!

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:39:52 +0000
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: re: TNE novels

Jason Anderson <midnight@kagi.com> wrote:
>I've recently purchased two of the novels which GDW put out for TNE (The
>Death of Wisdom and To Dream of Chaos). I was wondering if GDW ever put
out
>the third novel of the series? (I can't remember the name off the top of
my
>head).

_The Backwards Mask_

To the best of my knowledge it was never published.  But I'm still looking
if anyone's seen it!

(I have a feeling this may have come up on TML a year or two back and it
was (rumored?) then that the author was considering trying to get it
published still.)

HTH

tc

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 06:33:31 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Formulas

Well, I suspect that the astronomers are in for a LOT of that
hard-to-explain stuff, since every time we get a clearer look at what's
out there, it gets more and more complex. after  all we've been
generalizing planetary systems from an 'n' of one for a long time now.
When we get to the point of being able to actually see and study other
systems, we'll undoubtedly have to revise what is and isn't likely a bit.
After all, we don't even know our own backyard very well yet.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > Uhhh...remember folks...no one's actually determined that these 'close-in'
> > planets are gas giants, merely 'Jupiter _sized_' or more accurately,
> > 'Jupiter massed', and even their existence is still somewhat in dispute.
> > There's still only indirect evidence of these planets.
> 
> On the other hand, a "jupiter massed" rocky world is even harder to
> explain. 
> 
> -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:48:31 +0000
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: Welcom Andy Slack

From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
>Hi guys - I've just discovered TML


Welcome to the fray.  (Actually, it's been quite quiet recently.)


> and maybe you can help me with a query?

I think someone answered this for you, but can I ask one in return?

Are you THE Andy Slack?  As in the classic articles in White Dwarf for
Traveller?

A Fleeting Encounter
Assignment: Survey
Backdrop of Stars
Blowout!
Droids
Expanding Universe, parts 1-4
Introduction to Traveller, parts 1-4
The Motivated Traveller
The Scout Service in Traveller
The Snowbird Mystery
The Staurni
To Live Forever
Vehicle Combat


Did I miss any?  (I'd hate to be seen as 'fan' or anything - but could you
autograph your next e-mail?!!)


Have fun anyways

tc

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 07:25:01 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Imperium Games can work e-mail!!!!!

a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz,Internet writes:
>I got back from a need break yesterday. I looked at my email, in hope that
>IG had finally decided to answer my queries. Nothing, but I did notice
>Rob's post to the TML taking things further. So I regretfully decided that
>time had come to start getting heavy. But it was late at night so I had to
>wait. I got up this morning, checked my email and lo and behold; a message
>from IG replying to my enquiries!!!!!!!!! Has anyone else been contacted?

No inquiries.  Nothing at all.

Now, I'll admit that the Internet has been behaving a tad strange lately
(bouncing messages that the recipient did in fact receive, for example),
so it is conceivable that IG has attempted to reply and I didn't get it. 
On the other hand, I _did_ include my phone number, and I've had no phone
calls...

Andrew, could you please forward them my message? (As you obviously _can_
get through, and as they obviously listen to you.)  I won't be able to
phone VISA until tomorrow evening anyway (my office phone won't dial long
distance, even toll-free long distance!) and I have several after-school
meetings today, so IG has a window to communicate with me.  Failing that I
may try a collect call to California before calling VISA, to give them one
last chance.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 07:30:47 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: New 101 Books

traveller@MPGN.COM,Internet writes:
>This thread is getting seriously twisted...maybe BITS can do 101 Toys 
>as their next book...?

Well, I _have_ been working on a couple of 101 manuscripts (other than 101
Vehicles).

One is 101 Lessons, an outline for using Traveller in the classroom. 
Although given IG's record, I'm broadening that into using games in
general in the classroom.  The great thing is that I may be able to get
funding for this to cover printing (leaving the price to cross-subsidize
other BITS products)!

The other is 101 Sports, a compendium of recreational activities.  The
treatments would range from a full mini-game (grav-ball, maybe, if the
author if the rules I have is agreeable to being republished), down to a
short description.

Any thoughts on these?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 14:49:02 +0100
From: anders.lindborg@akribi.se (Anders Lindborg)
Subject: Classic Traveller: sandcasters

I tried to find the old xboat list to post this to but I only get error
messages from majordomo when I try so here goes anyway:

I have only the Traveller Book, the one that supposedly collects Book 1-3
into one volume. Information on sandcasters seems to be missing. Can anyone
clarify how they are supposed to work under these rules? The book only says
how much they weigh and cost, what they are used for, etc. There are no
rules for calculating their results.

/Anders Lindborg

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:38:01 EST
From: Dedly <Dedly@aol.com>
Subject: Traveller Artwork recommendation

Has anyone seen the work of David Mattingly? I don't know what novel covers
he's done (if any) but his work has graced the cover of "Science Fiction Age"
magazine a few times over the last couple of years. His work really has what I
consider a "Traveller-esque" look & feel. If I ever get around to designing
ships again, I plan on using his ships as my visual representation (for my
pc's).

\_/
DED

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:06:22 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2206

In a message dated 98-01-07 00:27:49 EST, you write:

<< I've recently purchased two of the novels which GDW put out for TNE (The
 Death of Wisdom and To Dream of Chaos). I was wondering if GDW ever put out
 the third novel of the series? (I can't remember the name off the top of my
 head). >>

Not that I know of...

Loren Wiseman
     GDW Emeritus

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:26:29 -0500
From: Juggernaut Press <juggernaut@tightbeam.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller PBM / PBEM

Michael Koehne wrote:

>>Juggernaut Press and SweetPea Entertainment have concluded a letter of intent
regarding the exclusive play-by-mail license for Traveller, Marc Miller's
classic science-fiction role-playing game.<<

>

Does "exclusive" mean an out for free development of PBM games ?

I mean, what would happen when I add trade to my sector viewer,
or space combat, or a pocket empire module ? 

<'Exclusive' means that only my company, Juggernaut Press, can develop and
operate a *commercial* PBM/PBEM version of Traveller. It has no affect on
the many free campaigns in operation, nor does it have any affect on the
activities you describe. It's a pretty narrow license.

There will be at least two commercial PBM/PBEM versions of Traveller from
Juggernaut Press, the first a strategic wargame ('Emperors of the Flag') and
the second an open-ended role-playing game spanning the entire Traveller
universe.

To keep tabs on these games, subscribe to the Traveller PBM Mailing List by
sending email to <traveller-list-request@tightbeam.com> with the single
unquoted word 'subscribe' in the body of the email. I won't mention
Traveller PBM here (as many of you won't be interested) except in the case
of major announcements.

Bob McLain

- ------------
Juggernaut Press
pbm@gamesbymail.com
http://www.gamesbymail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:19:22 -0000
From: Alex Ferrie <daishan@malkier.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1997 #2203

On 06 January 1998 13:33, Bruce Johnson [SMTP:johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU] 
wrote:
> (snip)
> The Deluxe T4, AKA T4.1 is still being worked on by Marc. He's released
> bits and pieces for comment, such as chargen rules, task systems, and some
> other stuff which escapes me now. It would be in the archives though, at
> mpgn. I think it was posted last fall.
>
> He's stated that he wants it done right, and is willing to slip release
> dates in favor of achieving that aim. (Yaaay!)

I've tried to find the stuff that MM posted but have been unable to locate it. 
Would it be possible for someone to repost it ( Marc,huh,huh pleeeease).

Alex Ferrie

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 07:58:50 -0800
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
Subject: Re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design

Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca> wrote:

[snippage]
>A couple questions, to Marc and the list in general:

>1. Is Wildstar still working on QSDS v2, or has this become vapourware?

I would hope that someone is working on a QSDS 2.0, simply because I feel
the current system has some annoying limitations, and would like it to
become more comprehensive, but only in ways that wouldn't add complexity
(like a bigger basic hull/G rating selection). The QSDS has the potential
to be similar to the old CT system, in as much as it could be simple and
still fairly comprehensive.

>2. If 1. is true, will this be considered as the new ship design system
>to be included in T4.1?

The rest of T4.1 is being revamped and examined, so it stands to reason
that some sort of revision will be included.

>3. Has anyone been using the RPSCS (Role-playing ship combat system), or
>done any other work on it? (latest version I've seen is 0.9)

I have never seen this, and am thus speaking out of ignorance, but I
question if it's really needed. The starship combat system as it stands is
fairly simple (though some may say simplistic), and really quite easy to
use once you get the hang of it.

>4. Will the RPSCS be considered as the basis of the new ship combat
>system?

Many people like the old, and simple, range band based system, so I'd vote
for keeping it. However, I do feel that there's a need for some other
system, like Mayday for CT or Brilliant Lances for TNE.

I'm currently working on a version of Mayday compatible with T4, using the
basic starship combat tasks from T4, and the vector based movement system
from Mayday (which was brilliantly simple I might add).

Schoon

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:12:55 +0100 (MET)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Re: Astronomy & Brown Dwarves

On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Jim Vassilakos wrote:

> Do you think: (1) brown dwarfs systems are exceedingly rare, that
> usually, if a brown dwarf occurs, it'll be orbiting a star, not out
> in interstellar space, (2) brown dwarf systems do happen, but they
> are no more common than normal star systems, (3) brown dwarf
> systems are very common, more common than "normal" star systems...
> perhaps much more common, (4) perhaps more than a thousand times
> as common...

If you look at what we have today, with the smallest stars being the 
most populous, and the large stars being rare, togehter with the fact that
there seems to be 3 to 4 gas giants per star, and 4 to 6 smaller planets
per star (our solarsystem) an interpolation of these data would suggest
that brown dwarfs are more common than M stars and less common than gas
giants. This is still not much to go on though. I would quess that many
brown dwarfs in habit the interstellar space and equally many orbit stars,
being one of the members of binary, trinary ... starsystems. I would say
that you actually can do whatever you like :-) Do what is best for your
universe and is the best for roleplaying with your group.

> This question has obvious importance for any sfrpg, because if they
> are common, then brown dwarves would represent possible deep space
> fueling stations for interstellar craft. There could even be an
> entire society of belters and whatnot living in a brown dwarf
> system. Such entities would be too important to leave off the
> starcharts.
> 
> So... any takers?
> 

I would include at least a couple of brown dwarfs in our local group, just
to make things interesting :-)


Tommy Grav                  tommy.grav@astro.uio.no    
Institute of Astrophysics   http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/
University in Oslo          "If you value your lives, be somwhere 
Norway                       else!" - Ambassador Delenn B5 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:32:35 -0500
From: ringrose@ascent.com
Subject: Annic Nova

When responding, you might want to send to me personally - your
responses are likely to be spoilers.  And some of you may be annoyed
at the vagueness of the questions, but I don't want to spoil the
adventure for those people who haven't done it yet.


Having just read the Annic Nova adventure, anyone out there willing to
try designing it with FFS (or FFS2)?

Reading the adventure, I kept asking myself "why?"  Why was it
behaving the way it was, why is it built that way, and so on.
Now, I can make some guesses, but I'm curious what other people think.

	- robert ringrose
	  ringrose@ascent.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:57:39 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: Re: K'Kree?

I also have the Megatraveller "Vilani and Vargr". I also have "Solomani and
Aslan" (Same series). If I could ever get my CT books back that I loaned to
a friend (biggest mistake of my life) I have information on the Droyne.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Will <panzer@mail.sisna.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Wednesday, January 07, 1998 5:13 AM
Subject: Re: K'Kree?


> Thank you VERY much for those notes on the K'Kree.  I have next to
> nothing on any Traveller Races at all, having missied the alien modules.
>
> I do have MegaTraveller Supplement, "Vilani & Vargr", but that's it.
> I would love to see stats on the other races.
>
Samehere with me, I lost all my CT modules back in 89'
Has anyone done more with the major races?

This would be a major bost to my game :-)

Thanks

Will

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:01:18 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Crew accomodations

   Sat around this past weekend watching old WW II naval movies and came up
with some additions to the accomodations table.  While they are intended for
ships of the Terran Confederation, they could theoretically be used in other
eras (M:1200 in particular where crew are rather large).  Basic staterooms,
etc. are included for comparison:

TERRAN CONFEDERATION ACCOMODATIONS

                    MW      Vol. (kl or m3)      Mass      MCr
Bunk                --           14.0            0.5       0.005
(sleeps 1)
Low Berth          0.001         14.0            1.0       0.05
(cold sleep 1)
Emergency Low      0.002         28.0            2.0       0.1
(cold sleep 1-4)      
Small Stateroom    0.0005        28.0            2.0       0.04
(sleeps 1-2)
Large Stateroom    0.001         56.0            4.0       0.1
(sleeps 1-4)
Small Crew Bay*    0.002         70.0            5.0       0.14
(sleeps 8)
Large Crew Bay*    0.004        140.0           10.0       0.24
(sleeps 16)

* - Intended only for use on large ships which have adequate recreation
facilities such as gyms, lounges, multipurpose rooms, etc.  Crew bays
contain bunks which are stacked two high.

   Naturally they are cross-platform ("T4", TNE, etc.).

   Let me know what you think...

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2208
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Wednesday, January 7 1998     Volume 1997 : Number 2209



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Vilani and Vargr
Kafers and TNE 
re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design
Ship Design Systems
re: Astronomy & Brown Dwarves
Re: Coalition ships
Re: Astronomy & Brown Dwarves
Re: Coalition Ships
Re: Jumping away from pirates
Re: Jumping away from pirates
Re: K'Kree?
Re: THUDDD 8: Specifications
Re: THUDDD 8: Specifications
Speculations on Terran vs Vilani agression
Brown Dwarves
Re: Barbie in Spaaaaace!
Re: > Re: Starship Troopers
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: Coalition ships
Re: Jumping away from pirates
Re: Annic Nova

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:11:21 -0500 (EST)
From: "Frank Frey (SOK)" <ffreyiii@luna.cas.usf.edu>
Subject: Vilani and Vargr

Greetings, 

Does anyone out there have a copy of Vilani and Vargr that they would like
to sell? I'd settle for a xerox copy. 

Frank Frey 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:09:09 -0500 (EST)
From: "Frank Frey (SOK)" <ffreyiii@luna.cas.usf.edu>
Subject: Kafers and TNE 

Greetings, 

Has anyone out there worked out any TNE stats for the Kafers? Next to the
Hivers and the K'Kree they are one of the finest alien races ever
realized. Also, what has happened to 2300 ? 

Frank Frey 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:03:19 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design

>3. Has anyone been using the RPSCS (Role-playing ship combat system), or
>done any other work on it? (latest version I've seen is 0.9)

I've been working on an improved hit/damage system that could be 
integrated into RPSC (or even a more basic system like T4.0's.) The goals
were to address some of the flaws in the existing systems:

- -a hit always disables the system it hits and nothing else, whether it's a 
dinky laser hitting a battleship or a spinal mount hitting a fighter

- -ablative armour (with the side effect that batteries of tiny high ROF 
weapons are *much* better than big weapons of the same mass)

My system adjusts the severity of a hit (No effect/Light Damage/Heavy Damage/
Critical Damage) based on the weapons damage value and target's size; and 
separates penetration of armour from total damage of a battery. I'm 
still working on getting the to-hit probabilities right - high ROF gets only
a to-hit bonus, not a damage bonus, but for every 3 point syou make the 
to-hit roll by the damage is increased by one point (to represent multiple
hits) but *not* the penetration (to avoid the machine-gun-vs-battleship)
problem. It's designed to be relatively quick and clean - not much math,
relatively simple tables, all relevant numbers written into the ship's
USD.

The other big question I'm wrestling with in this is whether to go with the
current USD chart (for converting weapon damages from "centimeters of steel"
to a simpler scale) or replace it with a pure log chart - the latter has
all sorts of mathematical advantages but would mean a fair amount of 
effort to convert T4.0 designs to the new system.

I posted a draft to trav-tech and can forward one to anyone else interested;
I'll probably hold off on posting a draft here until I'm a little more
advanced.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: 07 Jan 1998 12:57 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Ship Design Systems

Glenn et al,

You're right on two big points:

1. QSDS works well.

2. We don't need yet another system.


I wondered out loud what a CSDS (Classic Ship Design System)
would look like because it was blindingly fast, and my group
seems to be heavier into roleplaying than gearheading.

To maybe clarify what I was thinking about, I wanted to see
groups of parts made available as off-the-shelf component packs,
to the point where building a ship would more resemble the CT
system.  I figured there was a point where the aggregatization
brings the system into something that would be as easy as CT.

Rob


Example 1: Electronics Packs
- ----------------------------
The Electronics Pack selected sets the overall tech level of your 
starship.  Usually electronics packs are installed at the same TL 
as that of the ship's hull, though this rule is not always followed.

Also, electronics packs are often bundled in with the bridge; 
sometimes they are bundled in with the hull itself!

Optionally, the TL12 packs may also come with small power plants with
a fuel tank, to provide independent power to the components.

The Basic Electronics pack includes:
Basic civilian controls
Basic civilian sensors
Basic communications
Workstations

TL	Workstations	Vol	Pwr	Cost	Area	Crew	USD
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
9	3		4	4	15	56	3	A0 P2 J0
10	2		3	17	12	25	2	A0 P2 J0
11	2		3	17	14	21	2	A0 P2 J0
12	1		3	13	16	23	1	A1 P3 J0	

The Improved Electronics pack includes:
Basic civilian controls
Improved civilian sensors
Improved communications
Workstations

TL	Workstations	Vol	Pwr	Cost	Area	Crew	USD
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
9	3		4	14	20	148	3	A0 P2 J0
10	2		3	46	20	123	2	A0 P2 J0
11	2		3	36	18	115	2	A1 P2 J0
12	1		3	24	16	114	1	A2 P3 J0
12+


Note: TL11 packs use TL10 workstations.


Actual Numbers:

Basic
TL	Workstations	Vol	Pwr	Cost	Area	Crew	USD
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
9	3		3.7	4.4	15.703	56.4	2.6	A0 P2 J0
10	2		2.6	17.5	12.803	25.4	1.8	A0 P2 J0
11	2		2.8	17.6	14.603	21.3	1.2	A0 P2 J0
12	1		2.5	13.7	16.202	23.7	0.8	A1 P3 J0

Improved
TL	Workstations	Vol	Pwr	Cost	Area	Crew	USD
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
9	3		4	14.7	20.803	148.9	2.6	A0 P2 J0
10	2		2.9	46.8	20.903	123.4	1.8	A0 P2 J0
11	2		3 	36.9	18.703	115.3	1.2	A1 P2 J0
12	1		2.5	24.5	16.902	114.3	0.8	A2 P3 J0

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:19:10 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Astronomy & Brown Dwarves

<As some of you may know,
>brown dwarves are those "failed stars" as it were... stars that
>might have been, except that they were too small, never got nuclear
>fusion going, and so ended up not being stars at all. These brown
>dwarves have anywhere from 10-84 times the mass of Jupiter and
Actually, the current consensus for the upper mass limit is about 75 jupiter
masses; the lower mass limit is pretty fuzzy.

>As might be expected, astronomers can't see such (non)star systems,
We now have about a dozen known brown dwarfs or transisitional objects 
(young warm things that are right at the border between brown dwarfs and
stars.) About half of them were detected indirectly (through radial velocity
variations in a star they orbit.) One was imaged directly as a companion
to a star (GL229B, the coolest stellar object known.) The rest are 
transitionals, either free-floating nearby or in the Pleiades.

>some people think that the presence of brown dwarf
>systems, in ample quantity, could account for a sizable portion of
>the "dark matter" astronomers believe is out there.
Locally (in the galactic plane) this has been pretty much excluded. It's
not even clear what fraction of the disk mass is dark - between 50% and 
zero - but it's increasingly clear it probably isn't brown dwarfs. Out in
the galactic halo, where 90% or more of the mass is dark, brown dwarfs are
marginally exlcuded by the LLNL MACHO microlensing observations. 

>"wobble" in pluto's orbit that once led to speculation about a
>"Planet X" which has never been discovered.
The wobble was actually in Neptune's orbit - it's a long story, but the
consensus is that it was due to early observational errors and there's no
significant anomaly left. Some people speculated that a brown dwarf in a 
highly elliptical orbit ("Nemesis") could cause periodic mass extinctions;
this isn't completely exlcuded, though the evidence for periodicity in mass
extinctions is weak.

>theorize as to the number of brown dwarf systems which are out there

Unfortunately, in spite of the discoveries, the number of brown dwarfs
(especially at the low mass end) is poorly known. It's pretty clear that
they're not extremely common (not thousands of BDs per star...) It's fairly
technical, but opinion is probably divided between a flat mass function (
brown dwarfs about as common as 0.2 - 0.1 solar mass M-dwarfs) and a mildly
rising mass function (brown dwarfs 2-5 times as common as M-dwarfs) with a
falling mass function (brown dwarfs ten times rarer than M-dwarfs) not
yet excluded. Personally I believe in flat-to-falling (Macintosh et al
1996 BAAS 189 #120.05, Macintosh et al 1998 ApJ in preparation) because
I spent 6 years of my life looking for the damn things in the Hyades, but 
I may be prejudiced.

Overall - they should be fairly rare; about as many brown dwarfs as the
lowest-mass M-dwarfs, I think.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:21:45 EST
From: XatoKuom <XatoKuom@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Coalition ships

In a message dated 98-01-07 03:46:04 EST, you write:

<< GypsyComet
 (who is not interested in doing the full FF&S1 stats tonight...) >>

If you want to see the stats for the Fusilier, check out the wonderful BARD
pages run by Lewis Roberts, John MacPherson, et al.

URL: www.chara.gsu.edu/~lewis/bard/bardsara.html

This will take you to a list of almost mind-boggling value.  Stats are in
TNE/BL format.

Scott Quigg

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:26:51 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Astronomy & Brown Dwarves

>> So... any takers?
>>
>
>I would include at least a couple of brown dwarfs in our local group, just
>to make things interesting :-)
>
>
>Tommy Grav

I usually include Dwarfs, brown or otherwise in my D&D group, not my
Traveller group.

and I don;t often designate the particular racial makeup of them either ;)...

Pete


Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:30:23 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Coalition Ships

In a message dated 98-01-07 00:27:48 EST, you write:

> >   The Fusilier is an Aurora Clipper that has had all of its modular
>  > space filled in with a streamlined solid hull (at least as far as
>  > general hull shape is concerned). Based on the numbers for the Clipper
>  > I would place the Fusilier at about 2100 tons displacement.

You can find designs of the Lancer, Fusilier, Leviathan and many other designs
(all TNE of course) at Lewis Roberts excellent Bard Pages SARA (Starship
Abstract and Registration Archive) at
http://www.chara.gsu.edu/~lewis/bard/bardsara.html

Off hand, the Lancer/Fusilier are 6250 displacement tons.  The Leviathan is
5000.  All of the other designs are detailed in previous TNE products.
(all,unfortunately, long out of print).
  
Gary

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:49:58 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Jumping away from pirates

>>Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:39:51 -0500
>>From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
>
><snip>
>
>>>ie, once the jump cycle starts, you can predict within a few thousand km
>>>where the ship will be when it jumps (and when).
>>
>>I don't see how that follows.  My recollection is that jump destination is
>>affected by gravity, velocity, and direction of travel.  Fleets of ships
>>jumping together can coordinate such that they arrive at *approximately*
>>the same time and space, but that is not the same as observing a ship jump
>>*then* basing your own jump factors on intercepting them.  In fact, I would
>>say this is non-canonical.
>>
>Oops, sorry I was unclear.
>
>I mean that you know where the target ship will be when it leaves the system.
>
>You are quite correct that you don't have a clue where its going or when it
>will
>arrive there.

Ah, I see now.

>Most merchants cannot significantly charge their jump capacitors until they
>turn
>off their thrusters, so once they start coasting, you can expect jump
>capability
>after one hour.

Where are you getting this?  Last I knew, military and civilian ships were
not installing different types of power plants.  The civvie and mil both
use the PP for all their energy needs *except* the jump drive needs.  In CT
and MT (my forte's) the PP had nothing whatsoever to do with jumping (you
could, for example, jump with a destroyed power plant).  Has T4 changed
this?


>It is a significant point, because if you can't hold the energy for a long
>time,
>you can't charge the capacitors, attempt a bit of piracy, then jump out if
>it all
>goes wrong.
>

Your logic is absolutely correct.  But my understanding was that the Power
Plant incorporated a power generator which could initiate (and sustain) a
Jump.  I also believe the Jdrive has a "capacitor" which can store the
energy for some period of time (Starship Operator's manual was certainly
specific about how much time, earlier publications were certainly not, I do
not remember what SOM said.)  In the years I've received this list I can
remember many suggestions, but my favorite was the existence of a flywheel
(a few hundred tons or so) connected to an alternator which can be fed the
power in a trickle and store it as kinetic energy.  When the power is
needed the alternator's turns into a "brake", quickly converting the
kinetic energy back into electricity for use in the Jdrive unit.

I like this method because it is exaclty what happens in the lab next door
when they are "running" the experimental tokamak fusion reactor, which
requires a significant pulse of electricity in a period of about 2 seconds.

With this picture in mind, it is my opinion that the merchant (or escort,
or battlewagon) can "store" energy for a jump indefinitely and with no
penalty at all, except that if it gets hit in the jump drive, it loses all
that energy immediately (and possibly catastrophically...I wouldn't want to
be around when a 100 ton flywheel spinning at 12000 rpms has its mounting
pins busted).

This does lead to some unwanted implications, why not just have your
capacitor "spun up" at the local starport by their 'ship-to-shore' power
umbilical?  You could jump, then use the stored fuel you didn't need to
jump again.  The answer is that the fuel is used for other purposes as well
and the savings would not be significant.

Ah well, back to work...

Pete


Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 15:00:37 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: Jumping away from pirates

Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> Someone wrote:
>>> For all those of you who think that you just jump from a pirate before
>>> 100 dia, remember that you need 64MJ/m3/parsec stored in the capacitors.

That 64MJ figure comes from FF&S2, which also goes on to say that the
energy isn't actually stored IN the drive (or in capacitors).  The
explanation 
in FF&S2 is that the energy goes directly into the jump drive, which uses it 
to initiate the jump (in whatever manner jump drives initiate jumps).  The 
energy isn't (say) stored in the drive and then released  all at once,
because 
that would require energy storage technology that's significantly better than 
available elsewhere in Traveller.  The time limit comes from the ability to 
stabilize the jump interface.  The jump must be completed within an hour, or 
else the interface with jumpspace becomes too unstable and Something Bad 
happens (just what, is up to the referee).

>>> Most civilian ships require about 1 hour to generate this and don't have
>>> the power to generate it any quicker.

Yep.  The time was increased from the Classic Traveller 40 minutes, since
many T4 civilian ships can't generate the required power in that amount of 
time.

>Once you turn on the jump drives the ship starts coasting and one hour later 
>it either jumps, misjumps or spreads itself thinly across the galaxy.

Basically (thus the Vilani tradition of "jump dimming" - dimming the lights
and shutting down all non-essential systems to ensure that the jump drive
gets enough power).  The results of an aborted jump are up to the referee;
personally, I'd allow a "safe" abort up through at least halfway into the
jump sequence.

>Possibly, a jump 3 ship can energise jump 1 in twenty minutes (if so, I'll
>keep that thought in mind 'cos the PCs in he campaign I am preparing will 
>have jump 3).

Probably.  And a J2 ship should be able to energize a J1 in 30 minutes.
Many military ships will have enough power (if they are not operating weapons
or screens) to jump rapidly; the rules in FF&S2 or QSDS will help you
determine just how rapidly.




wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "It's Science Fiction, if, presuming technical competence on the part of the
    writer, he genuinely believes it could happen."  --- John W. Campbell,
Jr.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 11:40:54 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: K'Kree?

Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing wrote:
> 
> I also have the Megatraveller "Vilani and Vargr". I also have "Solomani and
> Aslan" (Same series). If I could ever get my CT books back that I loaned to
> a friend (biggest mistake of my life) I have information on the Droyne.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Will <panzer@mail.sisna.com>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
> Date: Wednesday, January 07, 1998 5:13 AM
> Subject: Re: K'Kree?
> 
> > Thank you VERY much for those notes on the K'Kree.  I have next to
> > nothing on any Traveller Races at all, having missied the alien modules.
> >
> > I do have MegaTraveller Supplement, "Vilani & Vargr", but that's it.
> > I would love to see stats on the other races.
> >
> Samehere with me, I lost all my CT modules back in 89'
> Has anyone done more with the major races?
> 
> This would be a major bost to my game :-)
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Will

I have all the books in question.  What do you want to know in
particular?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:12:21 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: THUDDD 8: Specifications

>                           THUDDD 8: January 1998
>                            Subsidized Merchant

[snip]

I regret to announce that certain of our comrades received this notice and
fed it through an experimental machine translation project.

The proximate results may be inspected at
<http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayisba.html>.

The secondary results should be arriving in orbit shortly.

On behalf of the Sayat Concourse, I apologize for this error of
communication.  Rest assured that I shall be taking direct responsibility
for future interpretive and translation needs for SayBOOM, SayVROOM, and
[CLASSIFIED].

Tunggardaya
Number 15 Xenopolitical Investigative Task Force (Sylea)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:11:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: THUDDD 8: Specifications

On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Kenji Schwarz wrote:

> >                           THUDDD 8: January 1998
> >                            Subsidized Merchant
> 
> [snip]
> 
> I regret to announce that certain of our comrades received this notice and
> fed it through an experimental machine translation project.
> 
> The proximate results may be inspected at
> <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayisba.html>.
> 
> The secondary results should be arriving in orbit shortly.
> 
> On behalf of the Sayat Concourse, I apologize for this error of
> communication.  Rest assured that I shall be taking direct responsibility
> for future interpretive and translation needs for SayBOOM, SayVROOM, and
> [CLASSIFIED].
> 
> Tunggardaya
> Number 15 Xenopolitical Investigative Task Force (Sylea)

I routinely read my email at work during slow spots (waiting for compiles,
waiting for management to buy a clue, and so forth).  Usually, this causes
no problems.  However, now I'm in the position of trying to explain why I
suddenly started laughing out loud...and I mean *loud*...while allegedly
debugging a memory allocation problem. 

This is f*cking *brilliant*, Kenji.  With your permission, I'm going to
link to it from the THUDDD site.  Prominently.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:31:35 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Speculations on Terran vs Vilani agression

From: Frank Frey (SOK) <ffreyiii@luna.cas.usf.edu>
Subject: Greetings!


> ...the impact that initial contact with the Vilani had upon the
> Terrans. Talk about shaking things up!! Another topic is how
> and why the FIW got started in the first place. When you look
> at the map of the Solomani Rim the first thing that jumps out
> is that there was plenty of room for the Terrans to expand
> rimward. Since it was a Terran warship that fired first on a
> Vilani trade convoy, one can only draw the conclusion that it
> was a deliberate provocation and casus belli. Why this
> occured is open to speculation.
>Shall we speculate?
>Frank Frey

Because Terran's are a bunch of warmongering pigs? ;-)

Actually, I can think of several good reasons for starting a war to coreward
that have nothing to do with economy or patriotism.

1.)  Sure there was plenty of room to expand rimward, but, what happens when
you get there?  Nothing, that's it you've just "painted yourself into a
corner" and are stuck.  However, if you expand coreward, you have so much
more room to expand.

2.)  Besides, you can always expand rimward later.

3.)  War is good for the economy.  So much has been said on this in so many
historical contexts that I don't feel the need to say more.  Except to quote
an old saw that often comes up during war-time.  "It is an ill wind indeed
which blows nobody any good."

4.)  War is good for the technology.  Especially medical, weapons
transportation (especially in space) and related technologies.  And with
those three, what isn't related (technologically speaking).

5.)  War is good for the heart of a people.  Especially if you are winning.
If you're not, then you lie about it and get the same effect until the war
comes home.  If you are lucky the tides will turn and the people will never
be the wiser (except historically perhaps).  After all what raises the moral
of a people more than knowing that they or their loved ones are paying the
ultimate price in a noble and righteous endeavor?
_______________

I must be Travelling,

Richard
_______________

------------------------------

Date: 07 Jan 1998 11:34 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Brown Dwarves

Jim et al,

My uninformed, non-astrophysicist opinion follows.

Given that red dwarves are ubiquitous in the galaxy, then
I'd assume brown dwarves are also equally ubiquitous, or
perhaps an order of magnitude more common.

I'd also say that BDs are out there on their own, and not
orbiting other stars.  Perhaps with a lot of debris in orbit
around them -- perhaps some diffused asteroid belt/belt system.
Could be useful for mining, but perhaps too remote or sparse
to bother with.

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:47:37 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Barbie in Spaaaaace!

>>>>The Templars hold her image sacred, equating her with
>>>> Sophia or Barbello (!) of the Terran gnostics.  Barbie's
>>>> ecstatic union with Ken dissolves all existence into the
>>>> Pleroma.  Or so it is claimed...
>>>
>>> I hesitate to ask -- but only briefly: what's the esoteric
>>> significance of Barbie and Ken being non-anatomically
>>> correct (between the legs, I mean)?
>>>
>>> (Mr. Erickson, I beg you to keep your absolutely
>>> disgusting suggestions to yourself!)
>>
>>I'm not going to suggest anything. I will point out that you
>> might want to consider the Skopty sect in Russia (and
>> other, similar movements) as a possible explanation. :-)
>

*
>Yes; brilliant!  Those who truly seek mystical union with Her
> must, obviously, well, bring themselves closer to the state
> of Kenhood.
>Presumably they have vinyl underwear melted onto their
> flesh as well.


One might ask what kind of a sadistic pervert might be suggesting such a
thing, if one did not already know of equally disgusting phenomenon that are
also religiously promoted.  Forbidding some to marry, encouraging others to
flagellate, cutting the tender [ anatomical term removed by sensors] skin of
nubile young maidens, etc..

Oh well, different strokes (pun intended) for different folks.
_______________

I must be Travelling,

Richard
_______________

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:57:06 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: > Re: Starship Troopers

From: Robin Cantin <rcantin@oricom.ca>

>To you starship trooper fans, a boardgame has also been
> released just before Christmas. With characters of the
> movie, standard gimmick.

How does it compare with the old one?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:55:01 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

>Heck.. In the middle ages, it was consitered normal to let
> fowl hang by the head until it fell to the ground to 'ripen' it
> before it was cooked.

As I recall one of the old servants in Shogun found the practice so
disgusting, that he gave up his life rather than see it continue.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:21:45 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Coalition ships

>  I note also that the Lancer/Fusilier is listed as having limited
>maneuver. What ARE they filling all that space with, if not with 
>reaction mass?

It's got seriously thick armour - thick enough to put it well outside the
15 tonnes/ton range, so it needs a very big maneuver drive, with high 
fuel consumption, I would guess. 

Bruce
,

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:13:57 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Jumping away from pirates

>Most merchants cannot significantly charge their jump
> capacitors until they turn off their thrusters, so once
> they start coasting, you can expect jump capability after
> one hour.
>
>It is a significant point, because if you can't hold the energy
> for a long time, you can't charge the capacitors, attempt a
> bit of piracy, then jump out if it all goes wrong.


Why not?  In real life, a capacitor can hold a charge for days (ask any TV
repairman, if you can still find one of those around these days).

Or why not almost fully (like 99.9%) charge the engine.  You have almost an
hour to attempt your act of piracy, and if things are going well, you can
always bleed off the excess (since you are not going to jump) energy to
other systems (like weapons).

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 12:35:58 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Annic Nova

ringrose@ascent.com wrote:
> 
> When responding, you might want to send to me personally - your
> responses are likely to be spoilers.  And some of you may be annoyed
> at the vagueness of the questions, but I don't want to spoil the
> adventure for those people who haven't done it yet.
> 
> Having just read the Annic Nova adventure, anyone out there willing to
> try designing it with FFS (or FFS2)?
> 
> Reading the adventure, I kept asking myself "why?"  Why was it
> behaving the way it was, why is it built that way, and so on.
> Now, I can make some guesses, but I'm curious what other people think.
> 
>         - robert ringrose
>           ringrose@ascent.com
I know why it was acting that way and I presume it was built that way
'cause that's the way the designer wanted it. I too have read and have a
copy of the GDW CT Double Adventure 1. Do you really want the answer? I
thought it was a really neat design.

Jim Cooper

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2209
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 8 1998     Volume 1997 : Number 2210



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Brown dwarfs
A message from our Host
Re: > Re: Starship Troopers
Re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design
Re: Speculations on Terran vs Vilani agression
Re: Classic Traveller: sandcasters
Crew accomodations
New IG Website (maybe)
Re: Classic Ship Design System
Fwd:  ISP - Phone charges
Re: Brown dwarfs
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2205
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2205
re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design
Re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design
Re: Barbie in Spaaaaace!
Re: Classic Traveller: sandcasters
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2209

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:50:39 -0600 (CST)
From: nrunner@ix.netcom.com (Archie T.)
Subject: Re: Brown dwarfs

Do you think: 
(1) brown dwarfs systems are exceedingly rare, that
usually, if a brown dwarf occurs, it'll be orbiting a star, not out
in interstellar space.....this is possible, but i wouldnt count on it

(2) brown dwarf systems do happen, but they are no more common than 
normal star systems. very much more workable....see (3)

(3) brown dwarf systems are very common, more common than "normal" star 
 systems...perhaps much more common
This is my choice. M class stars make up ~75% of ALL stars....there is 
a tendency for lower mass stars to be more nummerous...as far masses 
go, jutiter is 1/1000th the mass the sun has, and the smallest M class 
is 12% the suns mass( sun =2*10^30 KG). Brown dwarfs, and ALL other gas 
giants take billions of years to radiate the energy they gained from 
gravity as they collapsed from a gas (GM^2/R, relative).....jupiter 
radiates 3 times the power it recieves from the sun. Stars at 8%-12% of 
a sun mass can burn deuterium at their core to GREATLY increase this 
energy budget. This type of burning lasts 3 million years MAX. 

(4) perhaps more than a thousand times
as common...no.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 17:19:42 -0500
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
Subject: A message from our Host

Our most gracious host has asked that I post a message to you about MPG-Net
Services.

MPG-Net would like to announce the availability of a Free version of the
Award winning Online Role Playing game, the Kingdom of Drakkar.

Wanted to try MPG-Net but didn't want to use your credit card?   Now you
can, MPG-Net has created a special web browser plug in that you can
download and install and play in a limited version of the game.  The full
game has many more areas to explore and you get all the other MPG-Net games
and services.

To check out that completely FREE and no obligation, go to the page:

     http://www.mpgn.com/webdrakkar/

And download the plug  in.  You will need IE or Netscape versions 3.0 or
later to use this plug in.  All you need to do after installing the plugin
to play, is to return to the page and put in an email address for us to
email you your account number and password and within minutes you will be
playing the most successful online, massive multi-player, persistent world
game on the Internet.


Admin note:  The list is still somewhat backed up.  I am getting a lot of
deferred sites and it is backing things up.  I am trying to get more
resources to fix the problem.

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 13:49:56 -0800
From: The J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: > Re: Starship Troopers

At 06:43 AM 1/7/98 -0500, you wrote:
>To you starship trooper fans, a boardgame has also been released just
>before Christmas. With characters of the movie, standard gimmick.
>
>Robin
>
>

I saw it in the game shops, didn't bother though as I have the old Avalon
Hill Bookcase game version of it already.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 98 17:55:08 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design

On 01/07/98 at 12:50 AM,  CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com> said:

><< 
> I *definitely* would like to keep the basis for combat being
> detect-lock-fire, _please_ don't water it down to just a basic "to hit"
> task roll. Don't skip the important considerations of detection with
> active/passive sensors, keeping a fire control lock on target, *then*
> firing.
> 
>  >>
>TNAS TSCS postulates a snsor phase which produces detection lock, followed
>by combat.

I'd just like to add that from a strictly roleplaying point of view, there
don't have to be distinct "phases" in a ship combat system. I admit to
*almost* completely winging it, but my goal in a ship-to-ship combat
between a PC run and a NPC run ship is for each PC to be intimately
involved in the action. Try to make it so nothing is cut and dried, nor is
there an ordered sequence of phases. 

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:58:26 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: Speculations on Terran vs Vilani agression

I don't remember the specifics of the "background" behind the game
Imperium, but I suspect that it was supposed to represent the solomani
expansion versus the Villani (ok, maybe it wasn't - but it sounds good
<grin>).

  Ok, two cents worth appended below...


  A few background pieces of information are needed about how things were
at the time.  The first thing that comes to mind is "did Terra know how
big the Villani empire was"?  Also, is it possible that the Villani were
crowding the Terrans at the getgo, and Terra finally pulled the trigger
that started the war?  It is entirely possible that some diplomatic envoy
left the impression that earth will be assimalated into the Villani Empire
wether it wanted to or not?

  All wars are not started as a result of naked aggression.  If I recall
history correctly, Yamato designed the attack versus the American Navy at
Pearl Harbor as a defensive move, not offensive - and supposedly (or my
history is garbled perhaps?) even he didn't like the prospect of tackling
the American forces.

  Possible scenario that I can see at this point (and I am thinking in 3d
space terms, not 2d!):

  1) the ratio of habitable stars to unhabitable and distance from Earth
may have had something to do with the decision to expand closest to Earth
with respect towards habitable stars.

  2) it is possible that Earth saw Villani in "it's own form" in the sense
that they could not believe they would be assimalated into the empire.
Believing themselves in danger, they attacked first with the most
ferocity.

  3) it is possible that a translation error in languages caused a major
misunderstanding.  I recall an old film where a man was offered a chance
to go to the homeworld of aliens with trans stellar capacity.  They told
the humans they would like the humans to come along with them to their
world so that they could serve man.  He eventually got on board the ship,
but unfortunately for him, as the ramp door of the ship was closing, he
heard his female lover's voice despairingly cry out something to the
effect "they are not here to give service to man, they are here to eat
man!".  So, that kind of error in translation could have happened to
trigger a war.

  Personally?  I would suspect it was a matter of Earth saying "That star
is in our back yard only 14 light years away, while the Villani's capital
planet is some 165+ light years away - how dare they!"
 
  Until I can reread my material from Megatraveller, I can't speculate any
more or any differently...

          Hal

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:36:26 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Classic Traveller: sandcasters

Page 74 of that book big bad black book :)

Defender's DM's
[Snip]
Obscuring Sand (per 25mm) -3

Cya L8tr

> I tried to find the old xboat list to post this to but I only get error
> messages from majordomo when I try so here goes anyway:
> 
> I have only the Traveller Book, the one that supposedly collects Book 1-3
> into one volume. Information on sandcasters seems to be missing. Can anyone
> clarify how they are supposed to work under these rules? The book only says
> how much they weigh and cost, what they are used for, etc. There are no
> rules for calculating their results.
> 
> /Anders Lindborg
> 
************************************************************************
tykoduk@sprynet.com       http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

186,000 Miles Per Second;
Not only a good idea, it's the law!

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 98 02:13 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Crew accomodations

Moin Harold D. Hale,

>    Let me know what you think...

	Anything is better than the experimental U-Boat you can see in
	the museum in Bremerhaven. Intendet for one week, and the crew
	(2 people) had to sleep in their seats. Even if I think about the
	larger one laying in the bay in front of the museum, your crew
	accomodation is luxus.

	On a height of about 1,80 was a floor, on both sides of the floor
	had been 3 beds. The floor had about 80cm, while each bed perhaps
	70cm. So 6 people in half of a displacement ton ;-)

	Just the class of ships governments with a code of A&B prefer ;-(

	I prefer to replace 1 crew member with 2 robots, if I'm short on
	space or have to worry about crew size. What do you think about
	the following table :

	Tl Control     int  Robots per Crew    Price kCr
	 9 High Data	2	8 	1	  60
	11 High Data	4	4	1	 800
	12 Low Auto	3	5	1	 170
	12 Low Auto	5	3	1	1660
	13 High Auto	4	4	1	 300
	13 High Auto	6	2	1	1910
	17 Low AI	6	2	1	1120
	17 Low AI	7	3	2	2180
	18 High AI	8	4	3	1480
	18 High AI	9	1	1	2450

	( classification and int and price taken from vampire fleets ;-)

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:47:02 -0600 
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com>
Subject: New IG Website (maybe)

Sophonts:

With the demise of the holiday rush, I have been able to again update
the new, proposed, possible, IG website at 
http://www.stl-online.net/vanya/default.html

Things that have changed since the last update:

1. I have removed the starry background and I *like* the new
black-on-white look.  It gives it a clean, crisp look.
2. Reformatted the TNS pages from 1108 to 1119.
3.  Added _Annililik Run_ to the products/adventures pages.

Take a look at it and see what you think.  As always, send
ideas/comments/insults to vanya@partyline.net

Thanks!



- -Vanya                                                      UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ---------------- Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future
Meyers-Briggs personality type:ENTJ              | vanya@partyline.net
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with."     | dmoody@bridge.com
 ----------------------- The Future is in Beta -----------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:12:19 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Classic Ship Design System

From: Robert Eaglestone <eaglesto@nortel.ca>


>Gentle Travellers,
>
>I would like to see a CSDS -- the Classic Ship Design System.
>Taking components most likely to be used in a civilian vessel
>in Milieu 0, build a system that looks like that used in Classic
>Traveller or High Guard... preferably CT!
>
>Simple, quick, few details, no mess.  Has anyone tried to do
>this?  Shall I?
>
>Rob

Please.
_______________

I must be Travelling,

Richard
_______________

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 22:03:40 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Fwd:  ISP - Phone charges

Hey Everyone in the United States,

I want you to take a look at the attached message that I received.  Please,
everyone, write to isp@fcc.gov and let the government authorities know what
you think.  Lets be vocal and try to stop any further charges to our access
to the internet.

In the past (and in the foreseeable future) I have been (and will try to be)
non-political (except within the confines of the RPG's under discussion on
the list).  But, this thing cuts across political boundaries.  If we let
them tap this cash cow now, before long, she won't be anything but skin and
bones.  Then they may take the skin for leather and the bones for dog food.


All US Netizens may and probably WILL be affected by this.
_______________

I must be Travelling,

Richard
_______________

PS:  I try to be a funny guy, but this is no joke.  If you only spend 1 hour
per day on the net and they only charge a cent per minute,  this will cost
you over $200 per year.  You have probably heard that old saw, "Give them an
inch and they will take a mile."  Those of you who know anything about our
government (any government really), know that this is especially true of
politicians (in general).


- ------- FORWARD, Original message follows -------

>Subject: ISP - Phone charges
>
>I am writing you this to inform you of a very important matter currently
>
>under review by the FCC. Your local telephone company has filed a
>proposal with the FCC to impose per minute charges for your internet
>service. They contend that your usage has or will hinder the operation
>of the telephone network.
>
>It is my belief that internet usage will diminish if users were required
>
>to pay additional per minute charges. The FCC has created an email box
>for your comments, responses must be received by February 13, 1998. Send
>
>your comments and tell them what you think.
>
>                  mail to:   isp@fcc.gov
>
>Every phone company is in on this one, and they are trying to sneak it
>in just under the wire for litigation. Let everyone you know hear this
>one. Get the e-mail address to everyone you can think of.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 23:20:22 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: Brown dwarfs

On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Archie T. wrote:

> (3) brown dwarf systems are very common, more common than "normal" star 
>  systems...perhaps much more common
> This is my choice. M class stars make up ~75% of ALL stars....there is 
> a tendency for lower mass stars to be more nummerous...as far masses 
> go, jutiter is 1/1000th the mass the sun has, and the smallest M class 
> is 12% the suns mass( sun =2*10^30 KG). Brown dwarfs, and ALL other gas 
> giants take billions of years to radiate the energy they gained from 
> gravity as they collapsed from a gas (GM^2/R, relative).....jupiter 
> radiates 3 times the power it recieves from the sun. Stars at 8%-12% of 
> a sun mass can burn deuterium at their core to GREATLY increase this 
> energy budget. This type of burning lasts 3 million years MAX. 

Hello Folks,
  Based on the above, and assuming that it is correct <grin> (I don't have
the basis to doubt it or verify it), then the following questions are
raised in my mind:

1) the presumed age of the sun is approximately 5 billion years (give or
take).  If the max lifetime of the brown dwarfs with respect to radiating
energy is 3 million years, that should imply that there are going to be a
lot of burnt out brown dwarfs out there.

2) in reading about the accretion hypothesis, along with another
hypothesis about how stars are formed (one was about two drifting nebulae
colliding), how long does it take relatively speaking for enough
"hydrogen" mass to collapse inward to form such a beast?

   Hal

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 23:56:43 -0600
From: "John D. Muncy" <jmuncy@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2205

> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:25:20 +0000 (GMT)
> From: Ron Dawson <rdawson@cgc.ns.ca>
> Subject: > Re: Starship Troopers
> 
> SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote:
> 
> > aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton) wrote:
> > 
> > >It's on my 'books to buy if I ever read all the books I've got *now*'
> > >list.
> > 
> > You'll have to special order from the US or find it second hand (unless
> > they re-release it to coincide with the movie) to get a copy in the UK.
> > Like most of RH's stuff, it's out of print in the UK.
> 
> There's a reprint out to coincide with the movie.  I saw it the other day
> in a K-Mart magazine rack.  The cover is a picture from the movie.  Don't
> remember the publisher info, etc or know if it's available outside of
> North America. 
> 
> - - Ron
> 
I believe that I have the latest release of the original novel in front of
me.
It is an artists rendition of the famed "gorrilla suit", w/Rico holding a 
"flamer" at port arms. IIRC, the copy that you saw at K-Mart
("attention shoppers...today's bluelight special...")<g>, is the 
screen version released to book form.

If any one is interested, here is the publisher to contact:
	Ace Books
	The Berkley Publishing Group
	200 Madison Avenue
	New York, NY 10016
	USA

I hope that this helps. If you need further help, let me know.

Best Regards,
John Muncy

"God loves the Infantry"
			Anonymous

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 23:56:43 -0600
From: "John D. Muncy" <jmuncy@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2205

> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:25:20 +0000 (GMT)
> From: Ron Dawson <rdawson@cgc.ns.ca>
> Subject: > Re: Starship Troopers
> 
> SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote:
> 
> > aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton) wrote:
> > 
> > >It's on my 'books to buy if I ever read all the books I've got *now*'
> > >list.
> > 
> > You'll have to special order from the US or find it second hand (unless
> > they re-release it to coincide with the movie) to get a copy in the UK.
> > Like most of RH's stuff, it's out of print in the UK.
> 
> There's a reprint out to coincide with the movie.  I saw it the other day
> in a K-Mart magazine rack.  The cover is a picture from the movie.  Don't
> remember the publisher info, etc or know if it's available outside of
> North America. 
> 
> - - Ron
> 
I believe that I have the latest release of the original novel in front of
me.
It is an artists rendition of the famed "gorrilla suit", w/Rico holding a 
"flamer" at port arms. IIRC, the copy that you saw at K-Mart
("attention shoppers...today's bluelight special...")<g>, is the 
screen version released to book form.

If any one is interested, here is the publisher to contact:
	Ace Books
	The Berkley Publishing Group
	200 Madison Avenue
	New York, NY 10016
	USA

I hope that this helps. If you need further help, let me know.

Best Regards,
John Muncy

"God loves the Infantry"
			Anonymous

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 98 23:14:53 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design

On 01/07/98 at 10:03 AM,  bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh) said:

>My system adjusts the severity of a hit (No effect/Light Damage/Heavy
>Damage/ Critical Damage) based on the weapons damage value and target's
>size; and  separates penetration of armour from total damage of a battery.

Bruce, this might be more complicated, but how about actually giving
various systems hit points and using those to assess damage. Have two
scales side by side, one with damage and one with capability, as damage
builds capability falls.  Trying to actually use the same scale would be
asking too much, probably not possible, but if we could make this work it
would allow us to model degrading performance and damage builds.

>The other big question I'm wrestling with in this is whether to go with
>the current USD chart (for converting weapon damages from "centimeters of
>steel" to a simpler scale) or replace it with a pure log chart - the
>latter has all sorts of mathematical advantages but would mean a fair
>amount of  effort to convert T4.0 designs to the new system.

I vote to change it to a rational scale.  Some sort of log scale would be a
good choice.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 23:38:51 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design

From: Bruce Alan Macintosh <bmac@astro.ucla.edu>


>I've been working on an improved hit/damage system that could be
>integrated into RPSC (or even a more basic system like T4.0's.) The goals
>were to address some of the flaws in the existing systems:
>
>-a hit always disables the system it hits and nothing else, whether it's a
>dinky laser hitting a battleship or a spinal mount hitting a fighter
>
>-ablative armour (with the side effect that batteries of tiny high ROF
>weapons are *much* better than big weapons of the same mass)
>
>My system adjusts the severity of a hit (No effect/Light Damage/Heavy
Damage/
>Critical Damage) based on the weapons damage value and target's size; and
>separates penetration of armour from total damage of a battery. I'm
>still working on getting the to-hit probabilities right - high ROF gets
only
>a to-hit bonus, not a damage bonus, but for every 3 point syou make the
>to-hit roll by the damage is increased by one point (to represent multiple
>hits) but *not* the penetration (to avoid the machine-gun-vs-battleship)
>problem. It's designed to be relatively quick and clean - not much math,
>relatively simple tables, all relevant numbers written into the ship's
>USD.
>
>The other big question I'm wrestling with in this is whether to go with the
>current USD chart (for converting weapon damages from "centimeters of
steel"
>to a simpler scale) or replace it with a pure log chart - the latter has
>all sorts of mathematical advantages but would mean a fair amount of
>effort to convert T4.0 designs to the new system.


Hey Bruce,

From what I know of actual damage effects of weapons in real-life, the log
scale would be much more realistic (especially a natural log scale, which
most scientific calculators can handle).

One of my gripes about Traveller is the inability to stack armor.  In
real-life, it's not that difficult.  (Why do you think they use layers of
ballistic cloth, because it's lighter?  No way, because it's more
effective.)  The answer in RPG's is to subtract some from the penetration
factor for each layer it goes through.  If not the strength then perhaps the
square root of the strength.  I'm not sure just how this works in real-life.
Perhaps some modeling is in order (Anyone got any guns I could borrow?).

If you  went with the square root rule, then...

Penetration Table
strength    deduction
 1-3               1
 4-8               2
 9-15             3
16-24            4
25-35            5
36-48            6
49-63            7
64-80            8
81-99            9
etc.              etc.

You know what they say, "A little realism goes a long way."  The more
realistic the game system is, the less you have to guess and the easier it
is to integrate new datum as they become available.
_______________

I must be Travelling,

Richard
_______________

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 22:39:02 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Barbie in Spaaaaace!

In mail you write:

>>In mail Kenji writes:
>>
>>>>The Templars hold her image sacred, equating her with Sophia or Barbello 
> (!)
>>>>of the Terran gnostics.  Barbie's ecstatic union with Ken dissolves all
>>>>existence into the Pleroma.  Or so it is claimed...
>>>
>>> I hesitate to ask -- but only briefly: what's the esoteric significance of
>>> Barbie and Ken being non-anatomically correct (between the legs, I mean)?
>>>
>>> (Mr. Erickson, I beg you to keep your absolutely disgusting suggestions to
>>> yourself!)
>>
>>I'm not going to suggest anything. I will point out that you might want
>>to consider the Skopty sect in Russia (and other, similar movements) as
>>a possible explanation. :-)
>
> Yes; brilliant!  Those who truly seek mystical union with Her must,
> obviously, well, bring themselves closer to the state of Kenhood.
> Presumably they have vinyl underwear melted onto their flesh as well.

Must be a change since I last saw a Barbie/Ken close up. They didn't
used to have "built-in" underwear.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 08:36:52 +0100
From: anders.lindborg@akribi.se (Anders Lindborg)
Subject: Re: Classic Traveller: sandcasters

Thanks, but this does not help at all. I know the reference you're talking
about, but it doesn't make any sense to me. Does the sandcaster...

1) Eject a can of sand that explodes outside the ship, creating a cloud of
sand that follows the ship on one side and protects from lasers on that side
only?

2) Channel the contents of a can of sand through many orifices on the
ship's hull, spreading a cloud of sand around all of the ship?

3) None of the above?

And when the sand from this single can has been launched... How many cans
of sand does it take to cover 25 mm of map space with sand (to get that precious -3
DM)? And where does this cloud go? 25 mm away from the ship in every direction
or only on one side? Which side? Does a 1000 ton ship get the same protection from
a single can of sand as a 200 ton ship? What if the laser gunner aims at the
bridge but the sand only covers the power plant? How long does it take a cloud of
sand to spread so thinly that it does not stop laser anymore? Another thing: 25
mm is a linear distance, but a cloud of sand would surely spread in 2D, right?

In short, how are cans of sand actually used in game play? How are they
translated into DM's?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 01:00:19 -0800
From: Eric Evans <ebevans@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2209

>Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:31:35 -0600
>From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
>Subject: Speculations on Terran vs Vilani agression
>
>From: Frank Frey (SOK) <ffreyiii@luna.cas.usf.edu>
>Subject: Greetings!
>
>
>> ...the impact that initial contact with the Vilani had upon the
>> Terrans. Talk about shaking things up!! Another topic is how
>> and why the FIW got started in the first place. When you look
>> at the map of the Solomani Rim the first thing that jumps out
>> is that there was plenty of room for the Terrans to expand
>> rimward. Since it was a Terran warship that fired first on a
>> Vilani trade convoy, one can only draw the conclusion that it
>> was a deliberate provocation and casus belli. Why this
>> occured is open to speculation.
>>Shall we speculate?
>>Frank Frey
>
>Because Terran's are a bunch of warmongering pigs? ;-)
>
>[reasonable stuff]

Remember, these aren't the Solomani, they're (more or less) people just
like us. The sense that I've gotten from reading the sketchy sources on the
IW period is that the Vilani controlled the hospitable planets near earth
(examine the Imperium map--the Vilani get by far better position than the
Terrans). Imagine what just one hospitable, exploitable planet, accessible
by FTL drive would mean to us; it'd be more than enough to make every son
of Sol* rich, or more likely, to make a few of them wealthy beyond Bill
Gates' dreams of avarice. Combine this factor with the fact that we will
have little notion of the actual size of the Ziru Sirka until several
hundred years into the Interstellar wars ("You mean Dingir isn't the
capital?")--by which time the Vils are on the run and there's more money to
be made collecting taxes and plundering planets than starting vast,
long-term, capital-intensive settlements.

Now, regarding the actual incident at Barnard's Star, we have no way of
saying what happens. Could well have been the equivalent of the Gulf of
Tonkin. But the Terrans' reasons for taking on the Vilani are
straightforward, especially after the Vils put a couple of nukes on Alpha
Centauri.

* The sexism is intentional; I'm not nearly enough of a Whig to believe
that social change operates in a single direction--and I much prefer the
notion of a Terran Confederation that keeps every woman at home, churning
out new soldiers to feed to the front to the old DGP notion of "tuber
colonies."

- -----------------------------------------
Eric Evans

"There seemed an
                 inevitability in
          degradation"
			  --T.E. Lawrence

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2210
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 8 1998     Volume 1997 : Number 2211



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2210
Re: Jumping away from pirates
Re: Annic Nova
Re: Kessel run
Re: Brown Dwarves
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2209
Re: Speculations on Terran vs Vilani agression
Jumping away from pirates
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2208
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2208
Terran Confederation
Jumping away from pirates
Re: THUDDD 8: Specifications
Speculations on Terran vs Vilani agression
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2210
Re: THUDDD 8: Specifications
Re: Speculations on Terran vs Vilani agression

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 20:27:14
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2210

>
>Date: Wed, 07 Jan 98 23:14:53 -0600
>From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
>Subject: re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design
>
>On 01/07/98 at 10:03 AM,  bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh) said:
>
>>My system adjusts the severity of a hit (No effect/Light Damage/Heavy
>>Damage/ Critical Damage) based on the weapons damage value and target's
>>size; and  separates penetration of armour from total damage of a battery.
>
>Bruce, this might be more complicated, but how about actually giving
>various systems hit points and using those to assess damage. Have two
>scales side by side, one with damage and one with capability, as damage
>builds capability falls.  Trying to actually use the same scale would be
>asking too much, probably not possible, but if we could make this work it
>would allow us to model degrading performance and damage builds.

Hmmm. This has all sorts of secondary effects, such as players saying "Can
we have a computer system with 20cm of armour, so it wont blow up like out
last three".

Now the answer is of course, yes, you can - use component armour out of
FFS2. But it is going to be hard to keep it simple and add the bells and
whistles.

Stick with same four steps of damage for everything, perhaps with suggested
rules making any hit "heavy" on especially delicate components.

>
>>The other big question I'm wrestling with in this is whether to go with
>>the current USD chart (for converting weapon damages from "centimeters of
>>steel" to a simpler scale) or replace it with a pure log chart - the
>>latter has all sorts of mathematical advantages but would mean a fair
>>amount of  effort to convert T4.0 designs to the new system.
>
>I vote to change it to a rational scale.  Some sort of log scale would be a
>good choice.

Log scales work. It isnt that much errata to change starship weapon factors
and armour values.

>
>Eris
>- -- 
>- -----------------------------------------------------------
>eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
>- ---------------------
>Hey Bruce,
>
>>From what I know of actual damage effects of weapons in real-life, the log
>scale would be much more realistic (especially a natural log scale, which
>most scientific calculators can handle).
>
>One of my gripes about Traveller is the inability to stack armor.  In
>real-life, it's not that difficult.  (Why do you think they use layers of
>ballistic cloth, because it's lighter?  No way, because it's more
>effective.)  The answer in RPG's is to subtract some from the penetration
>factor for each layer it goes through.  If not the strength then perhaps the
>square root of the strength.  I'm not sure just how this works in real-life.
>Perhaps some modeling is in order (Anyone got any guns I could borrow?).

I disagree completely. I'm not a physics geek, but I suspect the reason
ballistic cloth is layered is the problems of weaving thick ballistic
cloth. Most armours I know of on, say, tanks, are cast as plates or blocks
(Chobham may be different ... I dont know).

N total thickness of armour(s) should always have n value, whether it is in
1 block or a hundred sheets. To do it any other way is demanding rules
lawyers exploit the system to hell and back.

>
>
>Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 08:36:52 +0100
>From: anders.lindborg@akribi.se (Anders Lindborg)
>Subject: Re: Classic Traveller: sandcasters
>
>Thanks, but this does not help at all. I know the reference you're talking
>about,
>but it doesn't make any sense to me. Does the sandcaster...
>
>1) Eject a can of sand that explodes outside the ship, creating a cloud of
>sand
>that follows the ship on one side and protects from lasers on that side
>only?

Yep. The sand cloud is big enough for the ship to maneuver behind.

>
>2) Channel the contents of a can of sand through many orifices on the
>ship's
>hull, spreading a cloud of sand around all of the ship?
>
>3) None of the above?
>
>And when the sand from this single can has been launched... How many cans
>of sand
>does it take to cover 25 mm of map space with sand (to get that precious -3
>DM)?

One can protects one ship from fire from one ship for one turn.

>And where does this cloud go? 25 mm away from the ship in every direction
>or only
>on one side? Which side? Does a 1000 ton ship get the same protection from
>a
>single can of sand as a 200 ton ship? What if the laser gunner aims at the
>bridge
>but the sand only covers the power plant? How long does it take a cloud of
>sand
>to spread so thinly that it does not stop laser anymore? Another thing: 25
>mm is
>a linear distance, but a cloud of sand would surely spread in 2D, right?

25mm was a translation to map scale. In "reality", the sand would spread to
the tens of kilometers. The sand is ablative crystals that expands into
laser-absorbant plasma when struck by laser fire.

>
>In short, how are cans of sand actually used in game play? How are they
>translated into DM's?

One can, one dm vs fire from one ship.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 09:17:15 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Jumping away from pirates

 "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu> wrote:

>Your logic is absolutely correct.  But my understanding was that the Power
>Plant incorporated a power generator which could initiate (and sustain) a
>Jump.  I also believe the Jdrive has a "capacitor" which can store the
>energy for some period of time (Starship Operator's manual was certainly
>specific about how much time, earlier publications were certainly not, I do
>not remember what SOM said.)  In the years I've received this list I can
>remember many suggestions, but my favorite was the existence of a flywheel
>(a few hundred tons or so) connected to an alternator which can be fed the
>power in a trickle and store it as kinetic energy.  When the power is
>needed the alternator's turns into a "brake", quickly converting the
>kinetic energy back into electricity for use in the Jdrive unit.


You're actually thinking quite low tech here. With the stuff being made at
(TL8) cutting edge technology for flywheels you see the use of advanced
composites (to allow higher speed through resistance to burst) and magnetic
bearings. When I was working on flywheel design we were unusual in that we
used a hydrodynamic bearing in combination with passive magnetic bearings
to achieve around 42000 rpm (*) with a 110 kg composite structure. We did
have a totally active magnetic system too, but that was hard on the control
side. I think that mechanical bearings are increasingly unlikely with
higher TL.

Visions of high energy storage units involved banks of modular flywheels
rather than large single units as this is less stressful on the material
components and design (not to mention the cost advantage of multiple
units). Also, bear in mind that the governing equation is 0.5 x I x W^2, so
spinning faster is better than getting heavier.

The real advantage (once you get to higher tech levels) is the elimination
of losses through superconductivity, and the ability to use gravitic
technology to levitate the wheel. I suspect that the unit would still be
run in a vacuum (because even the few molecules we had in a vacuum >1e-5 mB
caused a significant drag on the rotor).

>With this picture in mind, it is my opinion that the merchant (or escort,
>or battlewagon) can "store" energy for a jump indefinitely and with no
>penalty at all, except that if it gets hit in the jump drive, it loses all
>that energy immediately (and possibly catastrophically...I wouldn't want to
>be around when a 100 ton flywheel spinning at 12000 rpms has its mounting
>pins busted).

Hmm. I've been around a 110kg unit failing at 42k rpm. Very deep scary
rumble and then lots of carbon smoke as (1) a vacuum fitting failed and (2)
oil in a backup turbovacuum pump was vapourised. LLNL in the US has burst a
small wheel at 65000 rpm (less mass than our unit) successfully, and IIRC
BMW had a nasty accident in Turin killing at least one researcher because
they were very stupid with their containment philosophy.

I still think that mounting pins are unlikely due to frictional losses.

NB The 'wheel' in flywheel is misleading as it is not the most safe and
effective configuration.

Dom

(*) The design was for higher speed than this, but we didn't complete
testing as the company was closed due to the group deciding to 'focus on
core business'. (Anyone  know of any flywheel companies who want a
development engineer?)

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 12:39:47 +0100
From: "V.A.G" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Annic Nova

ringrose@ascent.com wrote:

> 
> Reading the adventure, I kept asking myself "why?"  Why was it
> behaving the way it was, why is it built that way, and so on.
> Now, I can make some guesses, but I'm curious what other people think.
Well i have always felt that these informations were left out on pupose,
to let the DM make something up or let him follow the players
imagination. Thios adventure can be the spark to ignite new campaign
ideas without restricting th dm to what is written (The less is known
the more my imagination is let free).

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 23:24:15 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Kessel run

In mail you write:

> Also, fun to think of Han not really being that bright after all.  Gives
> hope to the dimmest of us.

And I quote, from the book "Star Wars", describing the scene where Han
goes charging (by himself!) at that group of stormtroopers. 

	Han reacted naturally, that is to say, without thinking...

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 23:15:02 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Brown Dwarves

In mail you write:

> Jim et al,
>
> My uninformed, non-astrophysicist opinion follows.
>
> Given that red dwarves are ubiquitous in the galaxy, then
> I'd assume brown dwarves are also equally ubiquitous, or
> perhaps an order of magnitude more common.
>
> I'd also say that BDs are out there on their own, and not
> orbiting other stars.  Perhaps with a lot of debris in orbit
> around them -- perhaps some diffused asteroid belt/belt system.
> Could be useful for mining, but perhaps too remote or sparse
> to bother with.

One thing to remember is that BDs *will* be easily detected by the
spaceborne observatories that both astronomers and the Imperial Survey
will be using. At least many of the larger ones will.

But they will tend to be ignored for the most part, as unless they have
some *convenient* sized gas giant or ricy bodies in orbit around them,
you could get stuck there. Skimming from a BD is *not* what I'd called
safe. 

So unless you have a ship that can jump there and back without
refueling, it's not wise to vist them. Any planets around them will be
*really* hard to spot with ship carried sensors.

Still, if you did locate one with planets or belts with the right mice
of ices, CHONdrites, rocky and metal bodies I'm sure that there'd be
folks willing to move out there, <insert reason>.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 09:30:57 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2209

>From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
>The civvie and mil both use the PP for all their energy needs *except* the 
>jump drive needs.  In CT and MT (my forte's) the PP had nothing whatsoever 
>to do with jumping (you could, for example, jump with a destroyed power 
>plant).  Has T4 changed this?

No.

In Classic Traveller, a power plant was required in order for the jump drive
to function.  Book 2 requires that a ship's power plant number be at least
equal to the jump drive number or maneuver drive number (whichever is larger).
Book 5 spells out the requirement in greater detail, but the effect is the
same.  Both books also indicate that a jump drive requires both power input
AND jump fuel (Book 5 does so explicitly, in the section on Black Globes).

MegaTraveller changed this by stating that a jump drive was a high-output
power plant of some type, in the Starship Operators' Manual.  This rationale
allowed a ship to jump without a working power plant.  Traveller: The New Era 
wasn't terribly clear on the point, and glossed over the subject.  T4 returns
to the Classic Traveller model (and jump fuel consumption rates).

When working on FF&S2 for T4, Dave Golden and I took a look at a lot of these
options, to decide which one "worked" as part of an integrated design system.
The "jump drive as power plant" idea was out of line with other Traveller
power sources (producing MUCH more power per ton, even when the high fuel
consumption was worked in), while the "jump capacitors" from High Guard had
an energy storage density several times the next-best items in FF&S.

SO, we worked out an explanation for the jump drive (included in FF&S2) that
preserves the Classic Traveller "look and feel" (that jump drives require
both power and fuel, take a certain amount of time to prepare for jump, and 
must execute the jump within a limited amount of time after initiating the 
process) without requiring any of the problematic technologies.

>Your logic is absolutely correct.  But my understanding was that the Power
>Plant incorporated a power generator which could initiate (and sustain) a
>Jump.  I also believe the Jdrive has a "capacitor" which can store the
>energy for some period of time (Starship Operator's manual was certainly
>specific about how much time, earlier publications were certainly not, I do
>not remember what SOM said.)  

>In the years I've received this list I can remember many suggestions, but my 
>favorite was the existence of a flywheel (a few hundred tons or so)
connected 
>to an alternator which can be fed the power in a trickle and store it as 
>kinetic energy.  When the power is needed the alternator's turns into a 
>"brake", quickly converting the kinetic energy back into electricity for use 
>in the Jdrive unit.

This is the basic idea behind a homopolar generator, or HPG, which is the
power-storage device of choice in FF&S (both editions).  Unfortuately, while
FF&S2 HPGs are considerably better than the current equivalents, they still
don't store enough energy per ton that one could store enough energy for a
jump, and still fit within the jump drive.

>This does lead to some unwanted implications, why not just have your
>capacitor "spun up" at the local starport by their 'ship-to-shore' power
>umbilical?

That's exactly the sort of thing I mean by "problematic technologies".



wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "It's Science Fiction, if, presuming technical competence on the part of the
    writer, he genuinely believes it could happen."  --- John W. Campbell,
Jr.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 07:22:55 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Speculations on Terran vs Vilani agression

On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, HAL wrote:

> I don't remember the specifics of the "background" behind the game
> Imperium, but I suspect that it was supposed to represent the solomani
> expansion versus the Villani (ok, maybe it wasn't - but it sounds good
> <grin>).
> 
>   Ok, two cents worth appended below...
> 
> 
>   A few background pieces of information are needed about how things were
> at the time.  The first thing that comes to mind is "did Terra know how
> big the Villani empire was"?  Also, is it possible that the Villani were
> crowding the Terrans at the getgo, and Terra finally pulled the trigger
> that started the war?  It is entirely possible that some diplomatic envoy
> left the impression that earth will be assimalated into the Villani Empire
> wether it wanted to or not?
> 
>   All wars are not started as a result of naked aggression.  If I recall
> history correctly, Yamato designed the attack versus the American Navy at
> Pearl Harbor as a defensive move, not offensive - and supposedly (or my
> history is garbled perhaps?) even he didn't like the prospect of tackling
> the American forces.

Planning for Pearl Harbor started in the Japanese Naval College in 1914.
Not the attack per se, but planning for a war with the US in the Pacific,
as the Japanese rightly saw that the US was the power to be reckoned with
there, once they had defeated the Russians.

Yamato did not want to attack the US like they did, and predicted,
particularly if the attacking force missed the US carriers, that Japan
would ultimately lose the war. The Japanese High Command gambled on US
isolationism forcing a negotiated peace if the US Pac fleet was destroyed. 

Yamato who had been to college in the US and knew America extensively,
knew differently, that a surprise attack would likely galvanize the US
into the war. He gambled that catching the US carrier fleet in Pearl would
keep the US from carrying the war to Japan until the Japanes Pacific
empire was well entrenched with protected supply lines for Japanese
industry, particularly petroleum supply which was their vital weak point.

ISTR reading that when he was told that no US carriers were lost at Pearl,
he turned to his aides and said "We have lost."
 
>   Possible scenario that I can see at this point (and I am thinking in 3d
> space terms, not 2d!):
> 
>   1) the ratio of habitable stars to unhabitable and distance from Earth
> may have had something to do with the decision to expand closest to Earth
> with respect towards habitable stars.

I don't see much evidence for this. There a LOT of space to rimward. Not
mapped within canon Traveller, but we're not on the galactic rim by any
stretch of the imagination. 

>   2) it is possible that Earth saw Villani in "it's own form" in the sense
> that they could not believe they would be assimalated into the empire.
> Believing themselves in danger, they attacked first with the most
> ferocity.

The Terrans, in any case would not have likely submitted lightly to
becoming a mere chattel of the Vilani Empire. You also have to realize
that the Vilani had not run into a race that had developed Jump drive on
its own in what, a couple thousand years? There was no precedent for
handling the contact between Vilani and another major race except in the
very early Vilani wars. Undoubtedly there were also things said to the
effect that Terra owed huge amounts of royalties on the jump drive patents
and other inventions that there already 'owned' by Vilani megacorps. There
were probably some questions about who had 'given' us Jump drive
technology.

>   3) it is possible that a translation error in languages caused a major
> misunderstanding.  I recall an old film where a man was offered a chance
> to go to the homeworld of aliens with trans stellar capacity.  They told
> the humans they would like the humans to come along with them to their
> world so that they could serve man.  He eventually got on board the ship,
> but unfortunately for him, as the ramp door of the ship was closing, he
> heard his female lover's voice despairingly cry out something to the
> effect "they are not here to give service to man, they are here to eat
> man!".  So, that kind of error in translation could have happened to
> trigger a war.

"To Serve Man", My favorite Twilight Zone Episode of all time, and a short
story by Damon Knight? The quote is "To Serve Man... it's a COOKBOOK!" It
was redone for the modern Twilight Zone series as well. 

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:48:18 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Jumping away from pirates

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/08/98 12:48 PM

>Derek Wildstar said...
>Basically (thus the Vilani tradition of "jump dimming" - dimming the
lights
>and shutting down all non-essential systems to ensure that the jump drive
>gets enough power).  The results of an aborted jump are up to the referee;
>personally, I'd allow a "safe" abort up through at least halfway into the
>jump sequence.

Hmm. Like the airplane takeoff routine, V1 being when you're going fast
enough to have a chance of liftoff, V2 being when you have no other choice,
and "rotate" being when you actually unstick. I can hear those voices on
the black box recorders now...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:32:52 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2208

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/08/98 12:32 PM

>From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
>Subject: Welcom Andy Slack
>Are you THE Andy Slack?  As in the classic articles in White Dwarf for
>Traveller?

Yes. And as in the 2300 AD articles in Challenge. But I've paid my debt to
society now, and I'm out on parole. I promise I won't do it again. Well,
not much anyway. (Seriously, it's nice to be remembered. Thanks.)
>Did I miss any?  (I'd hate to be seen as 'fan' or anything - but could you
>autograph your next e-mail?!!)
Maybe, I'm at work and don't have my back issues with me. Hmm.. not sure
how you autograph an email, but how's this?

Andy Slack

X

His mark

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:36:28 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2208

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/08/98 12:36 PM

On 06 January 1998 13:33, Bruce Johnson [SMTP:johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU]
wrote:
> (snip)
> The Deluxe T4, AKA T4.1 is still being worked on by Marc. He's released
> bits and pieces for comment, such as chargen rules, task systems, and some
> other stuff which escapes me now. It would be in the archives though, at
> mpgn. I think it was posted last fall.
>
> He's stated that he wants it done right, and is willing to slip release
> dates in favor of achieving that aim. (Yaaay!)

Amen to that. Slipping release dates to do it right is absolutely the right
thing to do, IMHO. I wish it had been done with the first release.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:31:49 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Terran Confederation

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/08/98 01:31 PM

>>
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:01:18 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Crew accomodations
   Sat around this past weekend watching old WW II naval movies and came up
with some additions to the accomodations table.  While they are intended for
ships of the Terran Confederation, they could theoretically be used in other
eras (M:1200 in particular where crew are rather large).  Basic staterooms,
etc. are included for comparison:<<

Aha! The campaign I'm currently putting together is going to be set in the
Terran Confederation time period, sounds like you have already done that.
Any thoughts, advice, interest in sharing ideas either here or in a private
discussion? I plan to use the CHVIEW star viewing programme and Gliese
local star data to build a 3D map, other than that I'm basing things on
Imperium the boardgame and CT.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:45:12 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Jumping away from pirates

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/08/98 12:45 PM

>...my understanding was that the Power
>Plant incorporated a power generator which could initiate (and sustain) a
>Jump.  I also believe the Jdrive has a "capacitor" which can store the
>energy for some period of time (Starship Operator's manual was certainly
>specific about how much time, earlier publications were certainly not, I
do
>not remember what SOM said.)  In the years I've received this list I can
>remember many suggestions, but my favorite was the existence of a flywheel
>(a few hundred tons or so) connected to an alternator which can be fed the
>power in a trickle and store it as kinetic energy.  When the power is
>needed the alternator's turns into a "brake", quickly converting the
>kinetic energy back into electricity for use in the Jdrive unit.
Hey, neat idea! What happens when you try to turn the ship? Helluva
gyroscope you got there... is it in some kind of gimbals? (I can just
visualise some poor PC having to climb inside to fix something during
combat manoeuvres... evil GM smirk...)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 09:22:08 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: THUDDD 8: Specifications

>>                           THUDDD 8: January 1998
>>                            Subsidized Merchant
>
>[snip]
>
>I regret to announce that certain of our comrades received this notice and
>fed it through an experimental machine translation project.

It now appears that the aforementioned comrades did, in fact, receive the
remaining portion of the route analysis and permitted their experimental
language processing systems to "translate" it.  It can be found at
<http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayisba.html>.

XITF #15 would like to request that the Imperial Navy withhold firing on
any large, spherical starships with a minimized sensor profile which may
suddenly appear in-system during the next week.  This slight confusion
should be cleared up by that point.

Thank you.

Tunngardaya
Number 15 Xenopolitical Investigative Task Force (Sylea)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:17:37 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Speculations on Terran vs Vilani agression

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/08/98 05:17 PM

<<
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:58:26 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: Speculations on Terran vs Vilani agression
1) the ratio of habitable stars to unhabitable and distance from Earth
may have had something to do with the decision to expand closest to Earth
with respect towards habitable stars.
>>
Looking at the Gliese data and the current assumptions for habitable stars
(single, main-sequence, luminosity 0.4 to 2.0) I reckon there are only half
a dozen candidates within 15 pc of Sol (out of several hundred stars in
that volume), and most of 'em are in an arc with Tau Ceti in the middle. If
I remember rightly, that's rimward of Sol, so the logical expansion would
be that way - maybe the Vilani had gone around us? They only had Jump-2,
which would make them lean towards 2300 AD style tramlines between stars
(unless ships routinely carried extra jump fuel); maybe they could only
approach one way. And if Earth thought it was already surrounded...

<<
2) it is possible that Earth saw Villani in "it's own form" in the sense
that they could not believe they would be assimalated into the empire.
Believing themselves in danger, they attacked first with the most
ferocity.
>>

The Consolidation Wars mentioned in several canonical sources leave me with
the strong impression that when the Vilani found you, you joined their
empire - voluntarily or feet first...
<<
Personally?  I would suspect it was a matter of Earth saying "That star
is in our back yard only 14 light years away, while the Villani's capital
planet is some 165+ light years away - how dare they!"
>>

That's pretty much what it says in the MT Imperial Encyclopedia. I reckon
you go with whatever makes for the best campaign, and that could well mean
setting it up so it looks like one of these is right, then having the PCs
find out later on that it's really another cause entirely...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:10:22 -0400 (AST)
From: Ron Dawson <rdawson@cgc.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2210

John D. Muncy <jmuncy@siscom.net> wrote:

> I believe that I have the latest release of the original novel in front
> of me.  It is an artists rendition of the famed "gorrilla suit", w/Rico
> holding a "flamer" at port arms. IIRC, the copy that you saw at K-Mart
> ("attention shoppers...today's bluelight special...")<g>, is the screen
> version released to book form. 

Yes, I was wondering whether it was a novelization of the movie screen
play or if it was the original novel with the movie photos splashed on the
cover.  I'll have to take a closer look whenever I see it again.  Maybe if
it really is a bluelight special (hmnn, that means something else in
Canada) I'll pick it up and compare with the original. 

- - Ron

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 10:31:48 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: THUDDD 8: Specifications

At 09:22 AM 1/8/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>>                           THUDDD 8: January 1998
>>>                            Subsidized Merchant
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>I regret to announce that certain of our comrades received this notice and
>>fed it through an experimental machine translation project.
>
>It now appears that the aforementioned comrades did, in fact, receive the
>remaining portion of the route analysis and permitted their experimental
>language processing systems to "translate" it.  It can be found at
><http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayisba.html>.
>
>XITF #15 would like to request that the Imperial Navy withhold firing on
>any large, spherical starships with a minimized sensor profile which may
>suddenly appear in-system during the next week.  This slight confusion
>should be cleared up by that point.

Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball......

- --
+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "Some days, you just can't get rid  |
|  of a bomb!"                        |
|     -Adam West, the REAL Batman     |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:55:17 EST
From: DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Speculations on Terran vs Vilani agression

In a message dated 98-01-08 00:53:03 EST, you write:

<< If I recall
 history correctly, Yamato designed the attack versus the American Navy at
 Pearl Harbor as a defensive move, not offensive - and supposedly (or my
 history is garbled perhaps?) even he didn't like the prospect of tackling
 the American forces. >>

Yamamoto indeed did NOT relish the idea of attacking the US Navy...he knew
(and told the Imperial Staff) that he would only be victorious for the first 6
months of the war.  The rationale behind the Pearl Harbor attack was to
eliminate the Pacific Fleet as a force that could intervene in Southeast Asia
(Sumatra, the Dutch East Indies, etc)  which was Japan's PRIMARY objective
(which he did).  The idea being that after this was done, America would rather
accept the situation than fight a war...one of the grosser miscalculations in
history!  :-)

So this was indeed an offensive move...just not the primary one.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2211
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 8 1998     Volume 1997 : Number 2212



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Droyne Beds and Toilets
re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design
Re: Brown dwarfs
Re: Question for Marc
Re: Astronomy & Brown Dwarves
Re: THUDDD 8: Specifications
The start of the first Interstellar War
Who Really Started The FIW?
Re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design
Re: Startrek Architect's Manual?
Re: Brown dwarfs
Re: Classic Traveller:  sandcasters
Re: GURPS Traveller -- Metrics Intuitive?!
Re: FF&S2 Questions
Re: Interstellar Wars
Pacific war & the Terran Confed
Classic Traveller: sandcasters

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 22:33:43 +0100
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Droyne Beds and Toilets

> >I sort of ran into this problem in the adventure I'm currently writing for my
> >party.  It is an Ancient research complex.  What would droyne-like toilets
> >look like?  I've finally settled on round hollow stools with a small support
> >for the lower back.  Each would be set a bit away from the walls because of
> >the wings.
> >
> >Droyne beds, on the other hand, are more confusing.  I've settled on a perch
> >that runs around the perimeter of the room and is set 1 to 1.5 meters off the
> >floor, in the barracks for the warriors the perch is higher then in the
> >barracks for the other types.

Hey that sounds pretty interesting. Would you like to submit a
description of the base to my Ancients-sites-list. I am always on the
lookout for new site descriptions, canon or self-made. As a matter of
fact, i am writing up some of them to be added when i update my site end
of the month.
Anyway, i would be happy to quote some of your material with
acknowledgements, of course.

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
*Volker A. Greimann...Am Weidengraben 86, C6...54296 Trier*
********http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061*********
****grei5001@uni-trier.de* or try * greimann@geocities.com****
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 09:32:48 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design

At 10:03 AM 1/7/98 -0800, bmac wrote:
>The other big question I'm wrestling with in this is whether to go with the
>current USD chart (for converting weapon damages from "centimeters of steel"
>to a simpler scale) or replace it with a pure log chart - the latter has
>all sorts of mathematical advantages but would mean a fair amount of 
>effort to convert T4.0 designs to the new system.

Lose the current USD chart - it is goofy enough that I would prefer one
with logic.

BTW, while I do not expect this to fly, I would rather leave the (cm of
steel) numbers in, as it turns a random small integer into a real world
unit.  I do not expect to win that, as Traveller has never been happy with
real world units in damage systems. :)

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 09:46:48 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Brown dwarfs

>Stars at 8%-12% of 
>> a sun mass can burn deuterium at their core to GREATLY increase this 
>> energy budget. This type of burning lasts 3 million years MAX. 

>1) the presumed age of the sun is approximately 5 billion years (give or
>take).  If the max lifetime of the brown dwarfs with respect to radiating
>energy is 3 million years, that should imply that there are going to be a
>lot of burnt out brown dwarfs out there.

It's the deuterium-burning phase that lasts only a few million years, not
the whole radiating phase - the brown dwarf still has lots of 
left over gravitational energy to radiate. As Archie T. wrote, they'll radiate
for up to several billion years at increasingly low temperatures.
(For example, a 40 jupiter mass brown dwarf has a surface temperature
of about 1200K when it's a billion years old, and 700 K if it's 4.6 billion
years old (solar-age.)) Still, a jupiter-sized object (all brown dwarfs are
about jupiter-radius in size) that's 700K is quite hard to find, which is 
why so few of them are known. (The coolest brown dwarf detected through
direct imaging is around 1000 K.) So there *could be* a lot of undetected
brown dwarfs out there, but it doesn't mean that there necessarily are;
as I said, the best guess is that they're about as common as very low mass
M-dwarfs.

>how long does it take relatively speaking for enough
>"hydrogen" mass to collapse inward to form such a beast?
Accretion/star-formation is pretty quick - sort of million-year timescales
for low mass stars, hundres of kiloyears for bigger stars.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:26:18 -0600 (CST)
From: Don Stark <stark@glacier.nrlssc.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Question for Marc

I have a question for Marc and the general audience,
back a couple months ago there was a vast discussion about putting 
some of the old out of print CT stuff on a CD rom. Another idea
comes to mind. For something difficult to get like the original issues 
of the Journal (I've got a complete set from issue 2+) what if someone 
were willing to scan the issues and put them in some form on a personal 
web site. What sort of copyright issues would they face? Who's permission
would they need?


- -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
                                |                                   |
Don Stark                       |           ,/7_                    |
                                |          /   _`,                  |
Naval Research Lab, Code 7322   |         (.)\) \|_                 |
Bay St. Louis, MS 39529         |          0    /^~'                |
- --------------------------------|                                   |
e-mail: stark@nrlssc.navy.mil   |                                   |
- --------------------------------|                                   |
Phone: (228) 688-4151 work      |              ' )( `               |
       (228) 688-4759 fax       |   ~~~~~~~~~~~''  ``~~~~~~~~~~~~   |
- --------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:28:45 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: Astronomy & Brown Dwarves

Jim Vassilakos writes:

>A little bit off topic perhaps, but I'm working on my 3d-starmap
>data, and I've stumbled into a little quandary regarding the
>inclusion (or exclusion) of brown dwarves. As some of you may know,
>brown dwarves are those "failed stars" as it were... stars that
>might have been, except that they were too small, never got nuclear
>fusion going, and so ended up not being stars at all. These brown
>dwarves have anywhere from 10-84 times the mass of Jupiter and
>could conceivably have a planetary disk, however, all the worlds of
>such a system would be shrouded in perpetual darkness.

   Unless you can see in infrared--most of the light a brown dwarf would put
out is of that spectra.  Also, while brown dwarfs can have substanial mass,
diameter-wise they wouldn't get anymore than 2-3 times that of Jupiter.
Why?  Because the material that makes up a brown dwarf is more densely
packed together due to gravity.

>Do you think: (1) brown dwarfs systems are exceedingly rare, that
>usually, if a brown dwarf occurs, it'll be orbiting a star, not out
>in interstellar space, (2) brown dwarf systems do happen, but they
>are no more common than normal star systems, (3) brown dwarf
>systems are very common, more common than "normal" star systems...
>perhaps much more common, (4) perhaps more than a thousand times
>as common...

   In reality (based upon the knowledge of someone who has had 9 credit
hours of Astronomy in college, and has read extensively on the subject
since), brown dwarfs are probably much less common than gas giants.  Going
on the order of scale from planetismals to moons to "rocky" planets like
Mercury and Earth up to gas giants like Jupiter and Neptune, you see fewer
and fewer objects as you go up in scale.  If nature (contrary to 51 Pegasi)
favors smaller objects, because the circumstances of substellar object
formation or some mechanics we aren't aware of yet, then brown dwarfs would
be rarer still.  Recent survey results of the Pleiades (in the estimation of
experts, the best place to look), yielded only a very few brown dwarfs, this
despite predictions that many would be found.

   This just in from the Internet, regarding the most recent observations
(source - Marcy and Butler
http://cannon.sfsu.edu/~williams/planetsearch/planetsearch.html):

"Bottom line: Approximately 3% of Solar Type stars harbor planetary
companions that have masses from 1 - 10 Mjup and orbit within a several
Astronomical Units (AU).  Approximately 1% of stars harbor brown-dwarf
companions within several AU. Their masses are spread out from 10 - 70 Mjup,
as demonstrated beautifully by the data of Michel Mayor, Antoine Duquennoy,
and Didier Queloz at Geneva Observatory and L'Observatoire d'Haute Provence."

   The studies conducted thus far on brown dwarfs have only considered them
as companions to "real" stars, not as "rogue objects" as you are suggesting.
Brown dwarfs are so dim that spotting a rogue at interstellar distances is
considered extremely difficult (read: they haven't found any).  *However*,
there have been theories advanced concerning the possibility of rogue gas
giants that would lend hope to the possibility of rogue brown dwarfs as
well, so it doesn't mean that rogue brown dwarfs don't exist at all.

   For *game purposes*, I would place a brown dwarf in a star system only if
a '12' were rolled for gas giant nature, and then I would declare the orbits
on either side of where it is place to be empty.  Further, the occurance of
rogue brown dwarfs that have anything resembling a planetary system around
them (or even an asteroid field substantial enough to draw interest) is
going to be too low for it to be something that you would put on a star
system generation chart.  My advice would be that if you want to have such a
system in a region you are developing for your campaign, go ahead, but I
won't have more than one or two per sector.

>This question has obvious importance for any sfrpg, because if they
>are common, then brown dwarves would represent possible deep space
>fueling stations for interstellar craft. 

   Using a brown dwarf as a fuel source is probably not a good idea.  While
they do not get as hot as a star, they are still *hot* (particularly when
they are massive enough and young enough to undergo deuterium burn), and
would have a pretty strong gravity well besides (as you would expect of an
object that is much more massive than Jupiter but only somewhat larger in
diameter).

>There could even be an
>entire society of belters and whatnot living in a brown dwarf
>system. Such entities would be too important to leave off the
>starcharts.

   This bring up another important point.  The fact is that when you look at
a subsector chart, you are probably not looking at every posssible object in
that region of space, and you may not even be looking at all the stars
either.  Real space is more crowded than the way it is presented in
Traveller, but on the other hand, no one wants to look at a subsector map
that has named systems in every hex, a significant percentage of which are
uninhabited and/or planetless stellar objects.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:14:37 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: THUDDD 8: Specifications

Douglas Berry wrote:

>>XITF #15 would like to request that the Imperial Navy withhold firing on
>>any large, spherical starships with a minimized sensor profile which may
>>suddenly appear in-system during the next week.  This slight confusion
>>should be cleared up by that point.
>
>Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball......

According to the standard Sayat technical manual (_Batteries, Pottery, and
Polymers_, expurgated edition), verbal ridicule of jump-capable starships
is classified as "inauspicious", especially on days which are cubes of
primes.  Today is the 8th day of the year.  Woe!

However, once the vessel in question arrives (and after the appropriate
blood sacrifices, of course) there will in fact be a happy, fun ball, to
which all members of ISBA and friends shall be invited.  All the
rum-and-sardine punch you can drink, I promise!

Tunggardaya
Number 15 Xenopolitical Investigative Task Force (Sylea)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 11:02:30 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: The start of the first Interstellar War

This is one of my favourite subjects, I spent a lot of time on this
(Andrew inserts shameless plug for his history of the Interstellar Wars
at <http://users.netacess.co.nz/amv/trav/library/int_wars.htm>).

The way I've always thought of it was the first war was accidental.
Tensions had been building up for sometime and a minor incident started
a shooting war; nothing too unusual about that.

Why did the Terrans not just ignore the Vilani and expand rimward? This one
is simple, even though the Terrans did not actually realise just how big
the Vilani were at the start; they knew that were much bigger than them,
they knew that the Vilani had a history of forcing races with jump drive
into the Empire, they knew the Vilani policy on resistance was extermination,
they knew that the Vilani culture was just about entirely anathematic to the
Terran, and most importantly, they knew that the Vilani were just a single
jump-2 from Terra itself. Just take a quick look at the map and it becomes
very clear from the Terran PoV why they had to force the Vilani back. It's
a classic case of imperialism by suction; the Terrans have to go that way
or they risk annihilation by the much larger and more advanced Vilani.

Also according to AM6 and S$A during the Interstellar Wars, the Terrans were
also frantically expanding rimward. Presumably in an attempt to build a
base for survival if Terra should fall.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm (general)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/abuse/abuse.htm (sexual abuse pages)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/traveller.htm (Traveller pages)

****************************************************************************
We're digging a hole in the road, you can't go up, you can't go down
you'll have to wait to drive around
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:57:13 -0500 (EST)
From: "Frank Frey (SOK)" <ffreyiii@luna.cas.usf.edu>
Subject: Who Really Started The FIW?

Greetings, 
Well, it seems as if the thread I started has evolved into a discussion of
mid 20th century Japanese strategic policy. To bring it back onto topic
again let me share with you some ideas from my notebook. 

The only Yamamoto that I'm familiar with from the First Interstellar War
(FIW) is the Terran "Admiralty" Class Destroyer Leader(DDL).
The Yamamoto (DDL-09) and her sisters were command variants of the 3000
ton "Battle" Class Destroyers. The extra tonnage was used for additional
fuel, life support, and C3I capability.

As for Vilani aggresion, IMO there wasn't any per se. In 2096, the Croome
Deep Space Array at Gateway Station (3.1 LY from Terra) began picking up
radio transmission from the Barnard System. The US Space Force dispatched
two Exploratory Survey Vessels, the ESV Challenger and the ESV Discovery
to investigate. Needless to say, the first contact with the Vilani caused
a great deal of shock. Although the expedition made its discovery in
August of 2096 it wasn't until almost a year later on July 2nd,2097 that
Carolyn Chandler-Davies, President of the United States of North America
(USNA) announced to the world that contact with another intelligent, star
faring civilization had been made. 

Prior to this announcement, President Davies, UN Secretary General Dr.
Matthias Kangele', Yuri Khorsakhov(Director-General of the UN Space
Agency), and several other major world leaders had been meeting in secret.
Kangele and Chandler-Davies had managed to convince the others that the
Terrans
were in serious trouble. The people of terra were still divided along
nationalistic lines. In fact, there had been a pretty savage war fought
between PanAsia and the EuroUnion over asteroid mining rights in 2088. 

All agreed that it would only be a matter of time before the Vilani and
their Ziru Siirka absorbed the Terrans and their cultures. The Group set
forth a ten year plan that would culminate in a war between the Terrans
and the Vilani that would serve to unify the Terrans. There was of course
the danger that the Vilani would win but the general feeling among the
Group was that the Vilani were going to win in the long run anyway.

 It was actually 13 years before the 4,000 ton Guided Missle
Frigate, Krasny Sturm (Red Storm) fired the opening salvo in the Barnard
System and began a centuries long cycle of war. 

Frank Frey 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:43:18 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design

From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net>
Date: Thursday, January 08, 1998 1:03 AM


>On 01/07/98 at 10:03 AM,  bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh) said:
>
>>My system adjusts the severity of a hit (No effect/Light Damage/Heavy
>>Damage/ Critical Damage) based on the weapons damage value and target's
>>size; and  separates penetration of armour from total damage of a battery.
>
>Bruce, this might be more complicated, but how about actually giving
>various systems hit points and using those to assess damage. Have two
>scales side by side, one with damage and one with capability, as damage
>builds capability falls.  Trying to actually use the same scale would be
>asking too much, probably not possible, but if we could make this work it
>would allow us to model degrading performance and damage builds.


An excellent idea, but don't forget that different systems would probably
react differently to damage.  Some would be put out of commission by any
damage.  Others could sustain almost total destruction before becoming
inoperative.

>>The other big question I'm wrestling with in this is whether to go with
>>the current USD chart (for converting weapon damages from "centimeters of
>>steel" to a simpler scale) or replace it with a pure log chart - the
>>latter has all sorts of mathematical advantages but would mean a fair
>>amount of  effort to convert T4.0 designs to the new system.
>
>I vote to change it to a rational scale.  Some sort of log scale would be a
>good choice.
>
>Eris


Me too!  (My email has been a little weird lately, so if you have read my
opinion earlier, disregard this last line.)
_______________

I must be Travelling,

Richard
_______________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:54:51 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Startrek Architect's Manual?

>The "standard" term for this in American SF seems to be "spacing". As
>in "he was spaced", "They'll space you for this" etc.

I was aware of that (90% of the fiction I read is american SF) but I
thought the term (spacing) sounded too corny.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:35:08 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Brown dwarfs

HAL said,
>1) the presumed age of the sun is approximately 5 billion years (give or
>take).  If the max lifetime of the brown dwarfs with respect to radiating
>energy is 3 million years, that should imply that there are going to be a
>lot of burnt out brown dwarfs out there.


Not if they took longer to form, say about 3 or 4 million years more.  If,
for example, they formed from smaller pockets of prestellar matter, with
shallower gravitational wells, it would probably take them longer to coless.
IMHO.

>2)...
_______________

I must be Travelling,

Richard
_______________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:02:36 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Classic Traveller:  sandcasters

>>Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 08:36:52 +0100
>>From: anders.lindborg@akribi.se (Anders Lindborg)
>>Subject: Re: Classic Traveller: sandcasters
>>
>>Thanks, but this does not help at all. I know the reference you're talking
>>about,
>>but it doesn't make any sense to me. Does the sandcaster...
>>
>>1) Eject a can of sand that explodes outside the ship, creating a cloud of
>>sand
>>that follows the ship on one side and protects from lasers on that side
>>only?
>
>Yep. The sand cloud is big enough for the ship to maneuver behind.
>
>>
>>2) Channel the contents of a can of sand through many orifices on the
>>ship's
>>hull, spreading a cloud of sand around all of the ship?
>>
>>3) None of the above?
>>
>>And when the sand from this single can has been launched... How many cans
>>of sand
>>does it take to cover 25 mm of map space with sand (to get that
precious -3
>>DM)?
>
>One can protects one ship from fire from one ship for one turn.
>
>>And where does this cloud go? 25 mm away from the ship in every direction or only
>>on one side? Which side? Does a 1000 ton ship get the same protection from a
>>single can of sand as a 200 ton ship? What if the laser gunner aims at the bridge
>>but the sand only covers the power plant? How long does it take a cloud of sand
>>to spread so thinly that it does not stop laser anymore? Another thing: 25 mm is
>>a linear distance, but a cloud of sand would surely spread in 2D, right?
>
>25mm was a translation to map scale. In "reality", the sand would spread to
>the tens of kilometers. The sand is ablative crystals that expands into
>laser-absorbant plasma when struck by laser fire.
>
>>
>>In short, how are cans of sand actually used in game play? How are they
>>translated into DM's?
>
>One can, one dm vs fire from one ship.
>
If you are under acceleration (probably since you are trying to save your
ship), don't forget the effects that moving will have on your protection.
Once the enemy ship moves through the sand or around it (if they are coming
up along side) it's effectiveness is eliminated.

If neither predator nor prey are accelerating, probably the effects still
wouldn't last forever.  However, they would last as long as most space
combats could be expected to.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:04:31 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller -- Metrics Intuitive?!

>When I was in grade school (lower forms(?)/elementary school) we had never
>even heard of a metric system.  I am still learning it, but as I said for
>many parts, it IS more intuitive.  Especially for ship design, whether 1 Td
>= 3 cubic meters or 14 cubic meters.

It (metrics) is simpler because it is decimal (how many cubic inches in a
cubic yard?) but most importantly it is THE ONLY WAY TO GO when dealing
with physics/engineering ie ship design, rules design but not necessarily
actual roleplaying.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:08:59 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: FF&S2 Questions

>That's correct.  radio-isotope reactors - including the SNAP series, as well
>as the power sources for recent deep-space probes, aren't included in FF&S2.
>I have some good data on the SNAP series of reactors, but not on newer
>items.  I suspect that (due to the type of conversion technology used) that
>the Russian Topaz reactor would be more correctly handled by rules like this.
>
>It's something that would be nice to include, but I don't know if there
>will be a follow-on volume to FF&S2 from IG, let alone what will be included.

Drool. Could you post the radio-isotope reactor data you have (perhaps on
GDW-beta if here is inapporopriate)?

I'm always searching for real world data to increase the difficulty of ever
creating my Ultimate Design System ;)


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:15:50 -0600
From: "Steven Bonneville" <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Interstellar Wars

Eric Evans <ebevans@fas.harvard.edu> wrote:

> Remember, these aren't the Solomani, they're (more or less) people just
> like us. The sense that I've gotten from reading the sketchy sources on the
> IW period is that the Vilani controlled the hospitable planets near earth
> (examine the Imperium map--the Vilani get by far better position than the
> Terrans). [...]

The Terrans get Prometheus (Alpha Centauri A), which is a hospitable world.
However, most of the rest inside their natural defensive area are pretty
poor; how else did so many worlds in the Sol subsector get great names like
"Dismal" and "Hades"?  

Note that the Vilani control the only jump-2 route out of the Dingir-Sol
region.  Look at a Solomani Rim map -- the Dingir-Sol area is a pocket of
mostly jump-2 spaced worlds separated from the rest of the sector by a
jump-3 "moat" on most sides.  The Vilani probably entered Dingir subsector
from the spinward-coreward side, where a major main leading back to the
core through Vegan space connects to the pocket.  The first seven or so
Interstellar Wars are confined to that pocket.  Once the Terrans invent
jump-3 drive, it's a lot easier to mount and supply attacks into the 
Vilani rear in Vegan space and cut off communication between Dingir and
the core.  But before they invent the jump-3 drive, they're confined to
the pocket unless they use the "deep space refueling station" trick.

I'd have to look, but I seem to recall that the First Interstellar War
gets started over a dispute when a Vilani merchant convoy refuses to
obey Terran traffic signals at the Terran colony in the Barnard system.
(What did you say, Eneri?  A minor human race on the Rim has the jump
drive, and are using unlicensed ships to plant a colony on top of one
of our mining stations?  And they have the nerve to think *they* can
control interstellar traffic in the system when their own homeworld's 
government is still *balkanized*?  What a joke.)  For basic planetary
defense and sovereignty reasons, the Terrans can't tolerate this. 
(The only difference between a sub trader and a meteor is whether it
is under control and what its course is.) 

I get the impression that these wars were fairly small scale skirmishes
at first.  It seems to me that some Terran national fleet or the UN got
into the fight trying to enforce a territorial claim on Barnard, and 
ended up in over their heads when the local Vilani provincial governor
retaliated.  Between the internal infighting and Vargr raids, I'd think
the Vilani could easily overlook the brush-fire wars on the Rim until
the Terrans broke out of their little pocket with their unheard-of new
technologies.  

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:57:36 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Pacific war & the Terran Confed

Yamato was, if I recall, the name of a ship, nameed for the unifier of
Japan, Prince Yamato? Yamamoto was the admiral.

Anyhow, the Western policies towards the expanding Japanese in the 1930s
forced the war in the 40s. The US in particular tried to use embargo (oil
and other stuff) to make the Japanese back down. In doing so, they forced
them into a corner and seriously miscalculated the Japanese psyche. The
Japanese were forced to take action, and Pearl Harbour was the only way
they'd have any chance. Take it out (most especially the airfields and fuel
depots) and the US fleet would have to operate from California. The Pacific
would beliong to Japan.

But I'm wondering, did some Ziru Sirka commander, beset with Victory
Disease, make the fatal decision...?

'It's just some crummy little world. They know they can't win. We'll show
them a few gunboats and they'll surrender.'

Which led to:

'They haven't surrendered? They SHOT at the gunboats? Don't these people
know they can't win!?! Send in a cruiser.'

'They shot the cruiser?!? OK, send a strike group... oh, no need for
anything too big. The 11932nd will do. Yes, you can leave some of the
escorts behind to save logistics costs. Hah! Once they eyeball this lot
they'll trip over themselves on the way to the negotiating table.'

'The 11932nd was wiped out? Must have been a fluke. Send in the 22492nd
Strike fleet. And the 22493rd.'

'Yes, I really do think we need to ask for more ships....'

'What? Send in the....'

'What do you mean I'm sacked? No, don't just send two cruisers! Send them
all!'

'I told you that'd happen.'

(much later)

'Don't these people realise we've got 110 more major battlefleets? They
can't possibly win!'

'I REALLY don't think it was a fluke, sir.'

'Yes, I really do think we need to move seven more fleets down from
Coreward.'

(much much later)

No, of course they can't possibly attack the Capital. Don't they know it's
defended by the biggest, newest, BEST fleet we have...?'

'I think we might have underestimated these Terrans.'

'Umm... we surrender?'

'Let's see YOU try to govern 11,000 worlds, then...!'

There we are. The Fall of the Ziru Sirka, in a nutshell.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:32:08 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Classic Traveller: sandcasters

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/08/98 05:32 PM

<<
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 08:36:52 +0100
From: anders.lindborg@akribi.se (Anders Lindborg)
Subject: Re: Classic Traveller: sandcasters
Does the sandcaster...
1) Eject a can of sand that explodes outside the ship, creating a cloud of sand
that follows the ship on one side and protects from lasers on that side only?
2) Channel the contents of a can of sand through many orifices on the
ship's
hull, spreading a cloud of sand around all of the ship?
3) None of the above?
>>

If I remember rightly, none of the above but the effect was closest to (2).
You fired it out of a turret and it spread out all around the ship in a
cloud. However, once cast, the sand couldn't accelerate, so if you changed
vector at all you lost the sand completely. <<

And when the sand from this single can has been launched... How many cans of sand
does it take to cover 25 mm of map space with sand (to get that precious -3 DM)?
And where does this cloud go? 25 mm away from the ship in every direction or only
on one side? Which side? Does a 1000 ton ship get the same protection from a
single can of sand as a 200 ton ship? What if the laser gunner aims at the bridge
but the sand only covers the power plant? How long does it take a cloud of sand
to spread so thinly that it does not stop laser anymore? Another thing: 25 mm is
a linear distance, but a cloud of sand would surely spread in 2D, right?
In short, how are cans of sand actually used in game play? How are they
translated into DM's?
>>

Phew. In order, as best I can remember: (1) Just the one. Remember, it
wears off every time you change course or speed (including any kind of
evasion programme) or enter atmosphere. (2) 25mm in all directions. (3)
Yes, size doesn't count. (4) It covers the whole ship. (5) Good point. In
my games people dodge about so much I've never really worried about it -
they lose it every turn or two. (6) Spreading in 2D - you know, I never
thought about that, but it must do. You eject it somehow, and I don't see
any way to cancel the momentum that imparts, unless you invoke a 2300 AD
electrostatic field holding it in place. (7) The best I could figure out
was that each canister gives you the DM, so the only reasons for multiple
sandcasters are either so you have a spare in case of damage, or to blast
the natives on the ground - sort of a giant shotgun for close in ship
defence. This is balanced by the fact that every time you dodge etc you
lose it all.

From memory the Mayday! boardgame had much clearer rules on this than CT
itself. I'll see if I can find my copy (haven't used it in about 10 years
but it should still be in the cupboard somewhere) and check it out.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2212
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Friday, January 9 1998      Volume 1997 : Number 2213



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Fwd (#2):  Re:  ISP - phone charges, a responce
QSDS
Re: Pirates & Brown Dwarves
Re:  Starship Troopers
Re: Who Really Started The FIW?
Re: GURPS Traveller -- Metrics Intuitive?!
Good Times are back.
Re: Santa's Sleigh (a late breaking report)
Re: Fwd:  ISP - Phone charges
Re: Question for Marc
some more about brown dwarfs
Re: Pacific war & the Terran Confed
Re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:51:30 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Fwd (#2):  Re:  ISP - phone charges, a responce

Hello US Netizens,

A couple of friends of mine used to work for PacBell out in California.
When I informed Joshua, he came up with an excellent response.  Which he
forwarded to Curtis (his dad).  This is the result of their thinking.
Perhaps it could help you decide how to respond to the government.

One person can change the world.  Will it be you today?

_______________

I must be Travelling,

Richard
_______________

PS:  I have removed all personal data from the forward to protect the
privacy of my friends.  I WILL forward any questions or comments (w/ or w/o
contact information, your choice).

>----------------- Forwarded from Curtis via Joshua and me ----------------

To: isp@fcc.gov

Subject: The telephone company sold me my phone lines with an agreement...

The telephone company sold me my phone lines with the agreement that I
could make as many local calls as I liked, and of any duration I liked, for
a set monthly fee.  The cost of the local network divided by the number of
loops (lines) is the major part of the formula for calculating the monthly
cost of a line.  If the cost of the network has in fact gone up, then they
should apply for a re-rate.  If it hasn't, and they want to charge for
certain types of calls, such as internet log-on, then they are prying into
my private business.  It's none of their business what I use my phone for,
as long as I'm making local calls.


Charging per-minute for phone calls for Internet access (as opposed to
"regular" calls) will violate the phone company's agreement with me.  Also,
it will violate my right to equal protection under the law.  To sell me and
"Trish Teenager" both a line at the same monthly rate, and allow her to use
hers to talk for four hours a day as part of the monthly rate but to charge
me per minute to use mine, even though we're both making local calls, just
because I'm calling an Internet provider with my PC, is an infringement on
my right to "talk to" whomever I please (Free Speech).


It is also an infringement of my right to privacy: it's no one's business
what I use my phone line for.


Additionally, the use of email has reduced the amount of time people spend
talking on phones, particularly in the business and long-distance markets,
and THIS is what upsets the phone company.  If there were no Internet, given
the cheap long distance provided by deregulation, people would be spending
far more to
talk to each other.


Further, if, in an attempt to "fairly" assess per-minute charges, phone
companies switch to per-minute charges for EVERY call, then that will ONLY
be just if local competition is forced upon them before they can make the
change, so that a company can come in and offer me the same level of service
I'm receiving now at a competitive rate.


Yet further, FCC officials are appointed by elected officials.  If you
allow, help, or encourage the local companies to get per-minute charges for
Internet usage, I will begin pressuring my elected officials for your firing
in disgrace, at the very least for your removal.

Internet usage already costs too much for what you get out of it.  It's a
useful communication tool, and not much more.  It will at one point become
very powerful, but it's really still in its infancy.  Only free-market
forces can set its price at the proper level, and we do not have a free
local telephone market yet.  Until we do,

                                 let it be.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

[Curtis's full name and snail mail address were removed to protect his
privacy.]
Proud member of the "silent majority".  Big stick equipped.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 22:09:18 -0500
From: Tal Meta <talmeta@cybercomm.net>
Subject: QSDS

Does anyone have a copy of this available? All of the links I've been
able to find have expired.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:09:46 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Pirates & Brown Dwarves

Maybe they are all hiding out at their secret bases around the brown
dwarves.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 18:48:08 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re:  Starship Troopers

From: Ron Dawson <rdawson@cgc.ns.ca>
Date: Thursday, January 08, 1998 1:16 PM

>John D. Muncy <jmuncy@siscom.net> wrote:
>
>> I believe that I have the latest release of the original novel in front
>> of me.  It is an artists rendition of the famed "gorrilla suit", w/Rico
>> holding a "flamer" at port arms. IIRC, the copy that you saw at K-Mart
>> ("attention shoppers...today's bluelight special...")<g>, is the screen
>> version released to book form.
>
>Yes, I was wondering whether it was a novelization of the movie screen
>play or if it was the original novel with the movie photos splashed on the
>cover.  I'll have to take a closer look whenever I see it again.  Maybe if
>it really is a bluelight special (hmnn, that means something else in
>Canada) I'll pick it up and compare with the original.


Hey Ron,

Just what does bluelight special mean in Canada?

Back on topic,  if the version you are refering to is an adaptation of the
screen play, then you really need to get a copy of the original.  Otherwise,
you'll never know what Hollywood left out.
_______________

I must be Travelling,

Richard
_______________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:28:42 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Who Really Started The FIW?

- -----Original Message-----
From: Frank Frey (SOK) <ffreyiii@luna.cas.usf.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Thursday, January 08, 1998 8:00 PM
Subject: Who Really Started The FIW?


>Greetings,
<snipped>
>
> It was actually 13 years before the 4,000 ton Guided Missle
>Frigate, Krasny Sturm (Red Storm) fired the opening salvo in the Barnard
>System and began a centuries long cycle of war.
>
>Frank Frey
>

A couple of points to remember, from AM6 (Solomani)  page 5 ...

"In 2118, a minor incident by a Vilani merchant caravan (it ignored traffic
control signals from the Terran base on Bernard) sparked the First
Interstellar War."

As I understand the situation at that time the Vilani had basically STOPPED
expansion of the First Empire.

Bernard was the site of a small Vilani minig base. When the Terrans found
the Vilani in residence, but NOT planting a permanent colony, Terra did, and
claimed the world. I believe from reading AM6 that the Terran claim was
basically ignored by the Vilani, who continued to mine the planet, but also
started to trade with the minor race (Terrans) as a side business.

There were probably a number of minor incidents that occured as the Vilani
calmly continued to work their mines, totally ignoring any Terran authority.
Possibly they even reacted with force when Terran colonists attempted to
"jump their claims". All of this leading to the outbreak of open
hostilities.

In part the start of the Wars was just arrogence. The Vilani were there
first, and were Masters of an Empire spanning thousands of stars. The
Terrans were upstarts from a single system. When the Terran Colony traffic
control ordered the Vilani ships to take up a certain (maybe less desirable)
parking orbit, or to wait while a Terran ship jumped ahead in line, the
Vilani Captain just ignored them.

I'm pictureing something akin to the "bumping" incedents that occured
between US and USSR naval vessels during the height of the Cold War. Only in
this case an armed Terran ship reacted to the "nudge" or a patrol ship
responded to the deliberate, arrogent ignoring of orders from Traffic
Control, with force. From there things escolated.


Just my 2 cr on the subject.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:19:57 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller -- Metrics Intuitive?!

From: Anders Backman <anders.backman@aniware.se>




>>When I was in grade school (lower forms(?)/elementary school) we
>> had never even heard of a metric system.  I am still learning it, but
>>as I said for many parts, it IS more intuitive.  Especially for ship
>> design, whether 1 Td = 3 cubic meters or 14 cubic meters.
>
>It (metrics) is simpler because it is decimal (how many cubic inches
> in a cubic yard?) but most importantly it is THE ONLY WAY TO GO
> when dealing with physics/engineering ie ship design, rules design
> but not necessarily actual roleplaying.


Well, Anders,

I guess you are right.  When dealing with anything else that requires this
sort of thing, I always convert to metrics, then back to the original
system.  Example, in my D&D game, the players wanted to know how much wine
they could carry, so I remembered that a gallon is c. 4 liters and that a
liter of most liquids weigh about 1 kg and that 1 kg = c. 2.2 lbs so, I told
them that a gallon of wine weighs 8.5# and made them figure it from there.

No, you can't carry a hogshead apiece.  However, with harness and carrying
poles...

Does anyone know how much wine actually weighs?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 19:40:31 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Good Times are back.

	Based on recent email on both the Traveller and TNE mailing
lists, I know this one's coming, so I just wanted to get in a
preemptive strike in on everybody who's contemplating sending out
a virus warning:

          Here is some important information. Beware of a file
called Goodtimes. Happy Chanukah everyone, and be careful out
there. There is a virus on America Online being sent by E-Mail.
If you get anything called "Good Times", DON'T read it or
download it. It is a virus that will erase your hard drive.
Forward this to all your friends. It may help them a lot.

Goodtimes will re-write your hard drive. Not only that, it will
scramble any disks that are even close to your computer. It will
recalibrate your refrigerator's coolness setting so all your ice
cream goes melty. It will demagnetize the strips on all your
credit cards, screw up the tracking on your television and use
subspace field harmonics to scratch any CDs you try to play.

It will give your ex-girlfriend your new phone number. It will
mix Kool-aid into your fishtank. It will drink all your beer and
leave dirty socks on the coffee table when company comes over. It
will put a dead kitten in the back pocket of your good suit pants
and hide your car keys when you are late for work.

It will seduce your grandmother. It does not matter if she is
dead, such is the power of Goodtimes, it reaches out beyond the
grave to sully those things we hold most dear.

Goodtimes will make you fall in love with a penguin. It will give
you nightmares about circus midgets. It will pour sugar in your
gas tank and shave off both your eyebrows while dating your
girlfriend behind your back and billing the dinner and hotel room
to your Discover card.
It moves your car randomly around parking lots so you can't find
it. It will kick your dog. It will leave libidinous messages on
your boss's voice mail in your voice! It is insidious and subtle.
It is dangerous and terrifying to behold. It is also a rather
interesting shade of mauve.

Goodtimes will give you Dutch Elm disease. It will leave the
toilet seat up. It will make a batch of Methamphetamine in your
bathtub and then leave bacon cooking on the stove while it goes
out to chase gradeschoolers with your new snowblower.

Goodtimes will cause your cakes to fall and your blood pressure
to rise. It will increase the ability of your radio to pick up
reactionary talk stations at the expense of others. It prevents
scurvy, but it gives you mega garlic breath as it does so, which
makes the net results negative. It cheats at Scrabble.

It can forge your signature. It plays the bagpipes in your
basement. It shaves over your bathroom sink and then leaves the
hair to clog your drain. It does bad celebrity impersonations in
front of your friends.
Listen to me. Goodtimes does not exist.

It cannot do anything to you. But I can. I am sending this
message to everyone in the world. Tell your friends, tell your
family. If anyone else sends me another E-mail about this fake
Goodtimes Virus, I will turn hating them into a religion. I will
do things to them that would make a horsehead in your bed look
like Easter Sunday brunch.

<can't actually claim credit for this, but I thought it was
humorous>
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj
- --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he
establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:51:23 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Santa's Sleigh (a late breaking report)

I'm terribly sorry of the late nature of this report.  This is the bare
bones, thumbnail sketch version of the full report.  But, as you can see
(even from this limited report), the research was exhaustive.  Look for the
full report of results soon (to be published by Vilani Press).



IS THERE A SANTA CLAUS?

I am pleased to present the results of a scientific inquiry into Santa
Claus.

1)  No known species of reindeer can fly.  BUT there are 300,000 species of
living organisms yet to be classified, and while most of these are insects
and germs, this does not COMPLETELY rule out flying reindeer which only
Santa has ever seen.

2)  There are 2 billion children (persons under 18) in the world.  BUT since
Santa doesn't (appear) to handle the Muslim, Hindu, Jewish and Buddhist
children, that reduces the workload to 15% of the total - 378 million
according to Population Reference Bureau.  At an average (census) rate of
3.5 children per household, that's 91.8 million homes.  One presumes there's
at least one good child in each.

3)  Santa has 31 hours of Christmas to work with, thanks to the different
time zones and the rotation of the earth, assuming he travels east to west
(which seems logical).  This works out to 822.6 visits per second.  This is
to say that for each Christian household with good children, Santa has
1/1000th of a second to park, hop out of the sleigh, jump down the chimney,
fill the stockings, distribute the remaining presents under the tree, eat
whatever snacks have been left, get back up the chimney, get back into the
sleigh and move on to the next house.  Assuming that each of these 91.8
million stops are evenly distributed around the earth (which, of course, we
know to be false but for the purposes of our calculations we will accept),
we are now talking about .78 miles per household, a total trip of 75-1/2
million miles, not counting stops to do what most of us must do at least
once every 31 hours, plus feeding and etc.

This means that Santa's sleigh is moving at 650 miles per second, 3,000
times the speed of sound.  For purposes of comparison, the fastest man-made
vehicle on earth, the Ulysses space probe, moves at a poky 27.4 miles per
second - a conventional reindeer can run, tops, 15 miles per hour.

4)  The payload on the sleigh adds another interesting element.  Assuming
that each child gets nothing more than a medium-sized lego set (2 pounds),
the sleigh is carrying 321,300 tons, not counting Santa, who is invariably
described as overweight.  On land, conventional reindeer can pull no more
than 300 pounds.  Even granting that "flying reindeer" (see point #1) could
pull TEN TIMES the normal amount, we cannot do the job with eight, or even
nine.  We need 214,200 reindeer.  This increases the payload - not even
counting the weight of the sleigh - to 353,430 tons.  Again, for
omparison  - this is four times the weight of the Cunard Lines' Queen
Elizabeth.

5)  353,000 tons traveling at 650 miles per second creates enormous air
resistance - this will heat the reindeer up in the same fashion as
spacecraft re-entering the earth's atmosphere.  The lead pair of reindeer
will absorb 14.3 QUINTILLION joules of energy.  Per second.  Each.  In
short, they will burst into flame almost instantaneously, exposing the
reindeer behind them, and create deafening sonic booms in their wake.  The
entire reindeer team will be vaporized within 4.26 thousandths of a second.
Santa, meanwhile, will be subjected to centrifugal forces 17,500.06 times
greater than gravity.  A 250-pound Santa (which seems ludicrously slim)
would be pinned to the back of his sleigh by 4,315,015 pounds of force.

In conclusion - There may have been a Santa Claus, but it is not likely he
ever accomplished everything he's purported to have done.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 19:34:48 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Fwd:  ISP - Phone charges

At 10:03 pm 1/7/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Hey Everyone in the United States,

	Hey everyone in the world: Since nobody else has beat me to the
punch, allow me to be the first to congratulate Mr. Flores for
falling victim to one of the oldest chain letter hoaxes in
Internet history. Next, I anticipate a spate of warnings about
the Good Times Virus, followed by a no-really-this-one's-for-real
warning about the Pen Pal Virus. After all, all kinds of gullible
suckers got modems for Christmas, and they'll eagerly help these
mental viruses spread.

	Piece of advice: if you get any emails about a dying boy's last
wish, kidney harvesting, drugrunners grabbing american kids in
Mexico to carry cocaine across the border in their dead bodies,
or any other such ludicrousness, delete it before it rots your
mind.

A few resources: ciac.llnl.gov is the Computer Incident Advisory
Capability, with clues on how to recognize virus and chain letter
hoaxes, as well as security flaw and real virus information.
www.cert.org is the Computer Emergency Response Team, which also
provides trustworthy virus information.

>I want you to take a look at the attached message that I
received.  Please,
>everyone, write to isp@fcc.gov and let the government
authorities know what
>you think.  Lets be vocal and try to stop any further charges to
our access
>to the internet.
>
>In the past (and in the foreseeable future) I have been (and
will try to be)
>non-political (except within the confines of the RPG's under
discussion on
>the list).  But, this thing cuts across political boundaries.
If we let
>them tap this cash cow now, before long, she won't be anything
but skin and
>bones.  Then they may take the skin for leather and the bones
for dog food.
>
>
>All US Netizens may and probably WILL be affected by this.
>_______________
>
>I must be Travelling,
>
>Richard
>_______________
>
>PS:  I try to be a funny guy, but this is no joke.  If you only
spend 1 hour
>per day on the net and they only charge a cent per minute,  this
will cost
>you over $200 per year.  You have probably heard that old saw,
"Give them an
>inch and they will take a mile."  Those of you who know anything
about our
>government (any government really), know that this is especially
true of
>politicians (in general).
>
>
>------- FORWARD, Original message follows -------
>
>>Subject: ISP - Phone charges
>>
>>I am writing you this to inform you of a very important matter
currently
>>
>>under review by the FCC. Your local telephone company has filed
a
>>proposal with the FCC to impose per minute charges for your
internet
>>service. They contend that your usage has or will hinder the
operation
>>of the telephone network.
>>
>>It is my belief that internet usage will diminish if users were
required
>>
>>to pay additional per minute charges. The FCC has created an
email box
>>for your comments, responses must be received by February 13,
1998. Send
>>
>>your comments and tell them what you think.
>>
>>                  mail to:   isp@fcc.gov
>>
>>Every phone company is in on this one, and they are trying to
sneak it
>>in just under the wire for litigation. Let everyone you know
hear this
>>one. Get the e-mail address to everyone you can think of.
>
>
>
>
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj
- --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he
establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:29:44 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Question for Marc

In a message dated 98-01-08 19:18:03 EST, you write:

<< I have a question for Marc and the general audience,
 back a couple months ago there was a vast discussion about putting 
 some of the old out of print CT stuff on a CD rom. Another idea
 comes to mind. For something difficult to get like the original issues 
 of the Journal (I've got a complete set from issue 2+) what if someone 
 were willing to scan the issues and put them in some form on a personal 
 web site. What sort of copyright issues would they face? Who's permission
 would they need?
  >>

I would like to put the entire Traveller previous to T4 on CD Rom. There are
some people working on the preliminaries to that project, evaluating
practicalities and such.

I have a proposal on my desk to make CT available on line, which I am
evaluating.

For individuals to put scanned versions of these items on line would be a
violation of copyright unless I gave permission. I'm not inclined to do that
at the moment. I do give permission for scanned covers and some texts for web
sites (from time to time).

I am considering a limited edition photocopy run of JTAS #1 (cover would be
thicker cover stock; all would be in black and white only). The issue would
probably run $10.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:52:18 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: some more about brown dwarfs

Harold writes

> brown dwarfs are probably much less common than gas giants.  Going
>on the order of scale from planetismals to moons to "rocky" planets like
>Mercury and Earth up to gas giants like Jupiter and Neptune, you see fewer
>nd fewer objects as you go up in scale.  If nature (contrary to 51 Pegasi)
>favors smaller objects, because the circumstances of substellar object
>formation or some mechanics we aren't aware of yet, then brown dwarfs would
>be rarer still.  

It's a mistake to extrapolate up from planets to brown dwarfs - brown dwarfs
are, by definition, objects that form like stars (accreting out of 
their own blob of gas), not like planets (small planetesimals in the disk
surrounding a young star sticking together into bigger and bigger planetesimals,
optionally sucking up neighbouring gas once they get big enough.) Brown 
dwarfs are the low end of the star population, not the high end of the
planet distribution.

>Recent survey results of the Pleiades (in the estimation of
>experts, the best place to look), yielded only a very few brown dwarfs, this
>despite predictions that many would be found.
I think the Hyades is a better place to look, but I'm prejudiced.

The Pleiades surveys have only found a handful of objects, but that's
because they haven't covered much space, and the pleiades is fairly diffuse,
and may be depleted of low-mass objects compared to its initial formation.
It's certainly consistent with there being about the same number of brown 
dwarfs and late M-dwarfs.

>   The studies conducted thus far on brown dwarfs have only considered them
>as companions to "real" stars, not as "rogue objects" as you are suggesting.
>Brown dwarfs are so dim that spotting a rogue at interstellar distances is
>considered extremely difficult (read: they haven't found any).

The Pleiades brown dwarfs are field members of their cluster, not companions.
The two all-sky near-IR surveys (DENIS (European) and 2MASS (American) have
begun to find some field objects that they interpret as brown dwarfs
(though I remain skeptical.)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 23:42:58 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: Pacific war & the Terran Confed

>From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
>The US in particular tried to use embargo (oil and other stuff) to make the 
>Japanese back down. In doing so, they forced them into a corner and seriously 
>miscalculated the Japanese psyche. 

Yes, and to compound the error, the US was reading the Japanese Embassy's
cable (telegram) traffic*.  UNfortunately, the translations were fairly bad; 
a recent book compared the translations from US archives with translations 
done by modern scholars.  The lattitude available in translating many of the 
messages was great, and the US translators usually picked the most bellicose 
of the available choices.  This tends to prejudice negotiations.

* This was a standard US practice for most of the interwar years;  This 
  practice was partly responsible for the American success in negotiating 
  the Washington Naval Treaty.

>The Japanese were forced to take action, and Pearl Harbour was the only way
>they'd have any chance. Take it out (most especially the airfields and fuel
>depots) and the US fleet would have to operate from California. The Pacific
>would beliong to Japan.

UNfortunately for the Japanese, the tactical commander (Nagumo, I believe)
missed the point, and thought he was done when he'd sunk as many ships
as he could.  While the destruction of ships and planes was great,
most of the facilities were lightly damaged - in particular, most of the
tank farms were not destroyed, and the bulk of the naval facilities (dry
docks, repair yards, workshops, and submarine facilities) were not
damaged.

This meant that those ships that weren't sunk (primarily the carriers)
could continue to operate from Pearl Harbor, and that the ships that were
sunk (with a few exceptions) could be relatively easily raised and put
back in action (many of the battleships that pounded beaches in the latter
part of the pacific war were in fact sunk at Pearl, and later raised).

The failure to destroy the facilities in Pearl Harbor had two primary
effects on the conduct of the war.  Since submarine facilities at Pearl
escaped destruction, war patrols against Japan by the US fleet subs
(arguably the best subs in the war, on any side) could begin immediately+.
The second was that the repair yards at Pearl were back in operation
almost immediately.  Had those repair facilities been destroyed, at least
one of the US carriers that participated in Midway would not have been
present.

+ Unfortunately, the US subs were equipped with (arguably) the worst
  torpedo in the war.  In addition to the magnetic exploder problems that
  it shared with the German torpedo, the US model also had guidance and
  depth-keeping problems.  This means that this advantage was mostly wasted.

Compounding all of this, the Japanese failed to use their submarine forces
(equipped with arguably the best torpedo in the war) to cut the supply
lines from the mainland to Pearl Harbor.

>But I'm wondering, did some Ziru Sirka commander, beset with Victory
>Disease, make the fatal decision...?

Maybe.  Or maybe it was just translation error.  To use Kenji's favorite
trick:

What the Terrans Sent: "Unidentified convoy: identify yourselves and state
your intentions and destination.  Traffic control will give you a
vector and landing instructions.  Show transponders at all times and do
not deviate from the assigned heading."

What the Vilani Recieved: "Convoy not identified: indicate and indicate you 
your intentions and target unit.  The ordering of traffic gives you a vector 
and reports/ratios of landing. The transponders of aspect constantly and do 
not bring back an assigned text of heading 

What the Vilani Sent: "This fleet has not targetted any of your units.  We are a convoy of bulk ore transports with destroyer escort.  We do not recognize your sovergnity over us, and demand immediate clearance to land at our loading 
facility."

What the Terrans Recieved: "This fleet does not have targetted a few its 
units.  We are a convoy the transport of the ore with the escort of the 
destroyer. We do not detect his sovergnity on we and let us not require the 
immediate reduction with abundance with the mass of our facility of 
forwarding.

Things probably went downhill rapidly from there.



wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "It's Science Fiction, if, presuming technical competence on the part of the
    writer, he genuinely believes it could happen."  --- John W. Campbell, Jr.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 98 00:41:18 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design

On 01/08/98 at 04:43 PM,  "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> said:

>An excellent idea, but don't forget that different systems would probably
>react differently to damage.  Some would be put out of commission by any
>damage.  Others could sustain almost total destruction before becoming
>inoperative.

Not that I've given this more than a few cursory thoughts, but I was
considering a two track line with the top being capability and the bottom
being damage, something like...
                  
 Lidar  Rate    4       3     2      1      0    
        Damage                                      
                                                   
Each "hit" would be marked in the damage boxes as a slash.  As the hits
accumulate the ability of the device would fall toward zero.  In *this*
case it takes 6 hits to reduce capability one point.  The number of hit
points per hit would vary.  I'd add that after the damage row is filled the
device isn't functioning, additional damage would would be shown by a
backslash in each box..fill the row a second time and the device is
*destroyed* and can't be repaired..must be replaced.

Examples of what I mean...
 
 Power  Rate                5  4  3  2    1     0   
 Plant  Damage                                   
                                                 
 The Power Plant takes several points of damage before losing any
 capability, then loses it quickly down to a low level where it
 maintains some function for quite awhile.

 Jump   Rate                      3 0
 Drive  Damage                       
                                     
 The Jump Drive is armored and shielded so it takes many hits with no
 lose of function, but once it's damaged enough to affect capability it
 loses it all at once.

As I said, this complicates things, and might not be appropriate for the
"pretzels and beer" version, but I think it *is* doable.

Eris

- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2213
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com

Traveller-digest      Friday, January 9 1998      Volume 1997 : Number 2214



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Space Combat System
Re: Crew accomodations
Re: Speculations on Terran vs Vilani agression
Starship Troopers novel (was Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2210)
Re: Question for Marc
Re: Fwd (#2):  Re:  ISP - phone charges, a responce
Re: Santa's Sleigh (a late breaking report)
Re: Question for Marc
Re: Jumping away from pirates
Metrics
Droyne as PC's? 
Re: Pacific war & the Terran Confed
Re: Space Combat System; part 2
Re:Space Combat System

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 21:07:36 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Space Combat System

Has anyone else here used the space combat system from The Babylon
Project's Earthforce Sourcebook?

It is supposed to be similar to Full Thrust (which I've never played), and
is nicely done.  Counters are included with the supplement, or you can use
miniatures.  The vector movement is simple (and simultaneous).  Fighters
and fighter screens are handled a bit more abstractly but again very
simply.  Sensors aren't included. Firing is simple and quick.

Even more importantly (for an RPG supplement), there are guidelines for
what player characters can do to change the course of the battle (for
better or worse) depending on their duty station, including task
difficulty levels.

Overall I am very impressed.  The game is fast, simple, and quick to
learn.  Hopefully T4.1 will be as good.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 22:33:17 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Crew accomodations

Harold D. Hale wrote:

> Small Crew Bay*    0.002         70.0            5.0       0.14
> (sleeps 8)
> Large Crew Bay*    0.004        140.0           10.0       0.24
> (sleeps 16)
>
> * - Intended only for use on large ships which have adequate recreation
> facilities such as gyms, lounges, multipurpose rooms, etc.  Crew bays
> contain bunks which are stacked two high.

 Two high is ok, I prefer 3 high myself. Have seen 4 high in marine berths.

- --
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Yuppie Hunter of the Forgotten Surf
 Fortalice Desertum
 AD. 1998

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 22:40:21 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Speculations on Terran vs Vilani agression

Richard A. Flores wrote:

> Because Terran's are a bunch of warmongering pigs? ;-)

Yes, we are. What were y'all thinking. We have the right to rule allcreatures of
terran origin.

> Actually, I can think of several good reasons for starting a war to coreward
> that have nothing to do with economy or patriotism.
>
> 1.)  Sure there was plenty of room to expand rimward, but, what happens when
> you get there?  Nothing, that's it you've just "painted yourself into a
> corner" and are stuck.  However, if you expand coreward, you have so much
> more room to expand.
>
> 2.)  Besides, you can always expand rimward later.
>
> 3.)  War is good for the economy.  So much has been said on this in so many
> historical contexts that I don't feel the need to say more.  Except to quote
> an old saw that often comes up during war-time.  "It is an ill wind indeed
> which blows nobody any good."
>
> 4.)  War is good for the technology.  Especially medical, weapons
> transportation (especially in space) and related technologies.  And with
> those three, what isn't related (technologically speaking).
>
> 5.)  War is good for the heart of a people.  Especially if you are winning.
> If you're not, then you lie about it and get the same effect until the war
> comes home.  If you are lucky the tides will turn and the people will never
> be the wiser (except historically perhaps).  After all what raises the moral
> of a people more than knowing that they or their loved ones are paying the
> ultimate price in a noble and righteous endeavor?

 Cool. I can live with this.

- --
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Yuppie Hunter of the Forgotten Surf
 Fortalice Desertum
 AD. 1998

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:48:16 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Starship Troopers novel (was Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2210)

Ron Dawson <rdawson@cgc.ns.ca> wrote:

>John D. Muncy <jmuncy@siscom.net> wrote:
>> I believe that I have the latest release of the original novel in front
>> of me.  It is an artists rendition of the famed "gorrilla suit", w/Rico
>> holding a "flamer" at port arms. IIRC, the copy that you saw at K-Mart
>> ("attention shoppers...today's bluelight special...")<g>, is the screen
>> version released to book form.
>Yes, I was wondering whether it was a novelization of the movie screen
>play or if it was the original novel with the movie photos splashed on the
>cover.  I'll have to take a closer look whenever I see it again.  Maybe if
>it really is a bluelight special (hmnn, that means something else in
>Canada) I'll pick it up and compare with the original.

I have in my hands a copy of the original work by RAH with a new cover
showing a scene from the film published by ACE in the US, isbn
0-441-78359-9, dated May 97 inside the cover.

When I received it I was a little concerned that it was a movie
novelisation, not the original, but it is the original.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 02:24:04 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Question for Marc

> I would like to put the entire Traveller previous to T4 on CD Rom. There are
> some people working on the preliminaries to that project, evaluating
> practicalities and such.
> 


Marc, if you do so, I WILL buy this.  Would the CDROM include ALL CT
material?  i.e. books, supplements, alien modules, dragon articles?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:34:36 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Fwd (#2):  Re:  ISP - phone charges, a responce

Ignore this. Someone on another list checked with the FCC, and this is
in response to a proposal that was shelved about 5 years back. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 13:21:43 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Santa's Sleigh (a late breaking report)

>IS THERE A SANTA CLAUS?
>
>   <most of the post removed>
>
>In conclusion - There may have been a Santa Claus, but it is not likely he
>ever accomplished everything he's purported to have done.

And if he ever tried, he is surely dead by now.


Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm  (Link=F6ping, Sweden)
E-mail: jenry023@student.liu.se
UIN: 3844745   Get ICQ at http://www.mirabilis.com
Homepage: http://spacejens.ml.org
- ---------------------------------------------
"And I froze there, crouching in the small of plastique from the bolts,
because that was when the Fear found me, really found me, for the first=
 time"

Hinterlands, William Gibson
- ---------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:30:01 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Question for Marc

In mail you write:

> I have a question for Marc and the general audience,
> back a couple months ago there was a vast discussion about putting 
> some of the old out of print CT stuff on a CD rom.

The project is currently being dealt with on the Trav-CD list.

> Another idea
> comes to mind. For something difficult to get like the original issues 
> of the Journal (I've got a complete set from issue 2+) what if someone 
> were willing to scan the issues and put them in some form on a personal 
> web site. What sort of copyright issues would they face? Who's permission
> would they need?

Well, we seem to have a complete set of JTAS available. I've got all
but one of them myself (in near mint condition), and other folks have
similar collections, but with different "holes". 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:17:06 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Jumping away from pirates

In mail you write:

> Hmm. Like the airplane takeoff routine, V1 being when you're going fast
> enough to have a chance of liftoff, V2 being when you have no other choice,
> and "rotate" being when you actually unstick. I can hear those voices on
> the black box recorders now...

I think there's a "V3" as well, which is the velocity you *want* to
have when you take off.

I *like* this!

"Charge levels coming up on E1...."

"Coming up on E2....."

"Damn, they hit us..."

"We can't abort now!"

"I've got E3!"

"Jump!"

This is just *too* cool sounding to *not* incorporate into the game
mechanics. We'll have to work out the details, but I think it'd cover a
*lot* of "holes". 

E1 = energy level where you *might* be able to jump, but it's still
     possible to abort. 

E2 = energy level where you *must* continue onto a jump or else the
     drive and storage units will fail catastrophically.

E3 = energy level level required for a safe jump.

Below E1, jump is not possible. Between E1 and E2 misjump is virtually
certain (treat like jumping inside 10 diameters). Between E2 and E3
misjump is likely (treat like a jump inside of 100 diameters, but
outside 10 diameters). At E3 jump is normal.

What do you think guys?

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 11:59:41 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Metrics

On Thu, 8 Jan 1998 21:01:15 -0500, you wrote:

>Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:04:31 +0100
>From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
>Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller -- Metrics Intuitive?!
>
>>When I was in grade school (lower forms(?)/elementary school) we had never
>>even heard of a metric system.  I am still learning it, but as I said for
>>many parts, it IS more intuitive.  Especially for ship design, whether 1 Td
>>= 3 cubic meters or 14 cubic meters.
>
>It (metrics) is simpler because it is decimal (how many cubic inches in a
>cubic yard?) but most importantly it is THE ONLY WAY TO GO when dealing
>with physics/engineering ie ship design, rules design but not necessarily
>actual roleplaying.

Being just a *tad* insular there, what! "THE ONLY WAY TO GO" ... well, its
worked so far. But that's the *only* battle the Frogs have won -- they lost over
Prime Meridian (runs through Greenwich, London, not Paris), GMT as "Standard"
time, English as international language.

There is, of course, nothing special about metrics. The 10-100-1000 progression
makes it easier, but it didn't have to be metrics per se. And, after all, a
*lot* of engineering was done without using it -- and even before it was
invented!

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 04:45:57 +0000
From: "Will" <panzer@mail.sisna.com>
Subject: Droyne as PC's? 

> From:          "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
> To:            <traveller@MPGN.COM>
> Subject:       Re: K'Kree?
> Date:          Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:57:39 -0800
> Reply-to:      traveller@MPGN.COM

> I also have the Megatraveller "Vilani and Vargr". I also have "Solomani and
> Aslan" (Same series). If I could ever get my CT books back that I loaned to
> a friend (biggest mistake of my life) I have information on the Droyne.
> 

Mr. Electric Stitch or anyone have how to make a Droyne Pc?
Anything that could be used for T4 in a format like the K'kree
post?

Please!

Thanks


The Official Firebase Games Web Site
http://www.sisna.com/users/panzer/
Sister Site
Cicero's Lair
http://freespace.virgin.net/em.bis/mark.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:42:13 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Pacific war & the Terran Confed

>Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 23:42:58 -0500
>From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
>Subject: Re: Pacific war & the Terran Confed

>>From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
>>The US in particular tried to use embargo (oil and other stuff) to make the 
>>Japanese back down. In doing so, they forced them into a corner and seriously 
>>miscalculated the Japanese psyche. 

>Yes, and to compound the error, the US was reading the Japanese Embassy's
>cable (telegram) traffic*.

It does help when you can read the enemies mail :*>

>UNfortunately, the translations were fairly bad; 
>a recent book compared the translations from US archives with translations 
>done by modern scholars.  The lattitude available in translating many of the 
>messages was great, and the US translators usually picked the most bellicose 
>of the available choices.  This tends to prejudice negotiations.

Actually the US and Japan were very near to agreement in the peace talks,
just neither side realised it. The US had demanded that the Japanese get out
of China (meaning only China proper). This was the outcome the Japanese
negotiators were aiming for, but because of a translation problem the
Japanese never understood that the US was willing to let them keep Manchuria.

>* This was a standard US practice for most of the interwar years;  This 
>  practice was partly responsible for the American success in negotiating 
>  the Washington Naval Treaty.

>>The Japanese were forced to take action, and Pearl Harbour was the only way
>>they'd have any chance. Take it out (most especially the airfields and fuel
>>depots) and the US fleet would have to operate from California. The Pacific
>>would beliong to Japan.

>UNfortunately for the Japanese, the tactical commander (Nagumo, I believe)
>missed the point, and thought he was done when he'd sunk as many ships
>as he could.  While the destruction of ships and planes was great,
>most of the facilities were lightly damaged - in particular, most of the
>tank farms were not destroyed, and the bulk of the naval facilities (dry
>docks, repair yards, workshops, and submarine facilities) were not
>damaged.

You have fallen victim to one of the most common misconceptions of Pearl
Harbour. Nagumo had given the flight crews two attack plans, one for if
the carriers were in port and one for if not. If the carriers were in port
half the force was to attack them and the other half the remainder of the
fleet and port; if the carriers were not in port, the aircraft allocated to
the carriers were to attack the port facilities and the others only the fleet.
The first option was to be signalled by the flight leader with two flares
the latter with one. The flight leader fired one flare indicating carriers
not in port but the aircraft allocated to attack the carriers did not see the
flare; therefore he fired another; which was seen by both attack forces. The
results was all the aircraft attacked the fleet and nobody attacked the port
facilities (there has to be some hints for referees in there!)

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm (general)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/abuse/abuse.htm (sexual abuse pages)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/traveller.htm (Traveller pages)

****************************************************************************
We're digging a hole in the road, you can't go up, you can't go down
you'll have to wait to drive around
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 04:59:46 +0000
From: "Will" <panzer@mail.sisna.com>
Subject: Re: Space Combat System; part 2

SAMPLE SHIPS:  
These ship designs have been adapted from Classic Traveller Supplement 9: Fighting Ships.  They 
are representative of the ship classes available to the Imperial Navy in the period immediately 
before the start of the Second Civil War.  Ship designs from the other races in Traveller, being 
rare and hard to find, are left open to the players' interpretation.

Midu Agashaam Class Destroyer
Mass 6   3 DP
Jump 4, Maneuver 6, Fuel (49% total)/2 boxes  = 3 (3 mass remaining)
1 fire con (free)
2 Laser Battery (C Batts, 3 arc) = 2 (1 remaining)
1 Nuclear Damper (PDAF) = 1 (0 remaining)

Sloan Class Fleet Escort
Mass 10   5 DP
Jump 4, Maneuver 6, Fuel (49% total)/2 boxes  = 5 (5 mass remaining)
1 fire con (free)
2 Laser Batteries (C Batts, 3 arc) = 2 (3 remaining)
1 Missle Battery (3 arc) = 2 (1 remaining)
1 Ammo Rack = 1 (0 remaining)

Gionetti Class Light Cruiser
Mass 60    30 DP
Jump 5 (7%) = 4
Man 5 (15%) = 9
Fuel (29.5%) = 18 (4 boxes)
31 mass used, 29 remaining
2 fire cons (free)
1 Light Spinal Meson Gun = 6 (23 remain)
1 Fusion Battery (B Battery, 3 arc) = 2 (21 remain)
3 Missle Battery (3 arc) = 6 (15 remain)
4 Ammo Racks = 4 (11 remain)
2 Laser Batteries (C Batts, 3 arc) = 2 (9 remain)
3 Nuclear Dampers (PDAF) =  3 (6 remain)
Sandcaster Level 1 = 3 (3 remain)
1 Repulsor Bay (ADAF) = 3 (0 remain)

Arakoine Class Strike Cruiser
Mass 100   50 DP
Jump 3 (5%) = 5
Maneuver 4 (12%) = 12
Fuel Tankage (19%) = 19  (4 boxes)
36 mass used, 64 remaining
3 Nuclear Damper/PDAF = 3 (61 remain)
Sandcaster Level 1 = 3 (58 remain)
Meson Screen Level 3 = 9 (49 remain)
1 Repulsor/ADAF = 3 (46 remain)
2 Fire Cons (free)
Heavy Spinal Meson Gun = 12 (34 remain)
1 Particle Accelerator Battery (A batteries, 3 arc) = 3 (31 remain)
4 Missle Racks (3 arc) = 8 (23 remain)
3 Ammo Racks = 3 (20 remain)
2 Laser Batteries (C batts, 3 arc) = 2 (18 remain)
2 Planetary Ortillery = 6 (12 remain)
2 Fighter Bays (1 std, 1 atk) = (0 remain)

Ghalalk Class Armored Cruiser
Mass 100   50 DP
Jump 4 (6%) = 6
Maneuver 5 (15%) = 15
Fuel Tankage (24.5%) = 25  (4 boxes)
51 mass used, 49 remaining
3 Nuclear Damper/PDAF = 3 (46 remain)
Sandcaster Level 1 = 3 (43 remain)
Meson Screen Level 2 = 6 (37 remain)
Armor Level-1 (5%) = 5 (32 remain)
2 Fire Cons (free)
Light Spinal Particle Accelerator = 5 (27 remain)
2 Fusion Gun Battery (B Battery, 3 arc) = 4 (23 remain)
6 Missle Racks (3 arc) = 12 (11 remain)
6 Ammo Racks = 6 (5 remain)
5 Laser Batteries (C batts, 3 arc) = 5 (0 remain)

High Lightning Class Frontier Cruiser
Mass 120   60 DP
Jump 5 (6%) = 7
Maneuver 2 (7%) = 8
Fuel Tankage (28%) = 37  (4 boxes)
52 mass used, 68 remaining
Hull armor Level 1 (5%) = 6  (62 remain)
2 Nuclear Damper/PDAF = 2 (60 remain)
Sandcaster Level 3 = 9 (51 remain)
Meson Screen Level 2 = 6 (45 remain)
2 Fire Cons (free)
Heavy Spinal Particle Accelerator = 10 (35 remain)
4 Fusion Batteries (B batteries, 3 arc) = 8 (27 remain)
4 Missle Racks (3 arc) = 8 (19 remain)
4 Ammo Racks = 4 (15 remain)
9 Laser Batteries (C batts, 3 arc) = 9 (6 remain)
1 Fighter Bay (standard fighters) = 6 (0 remain)

Atlantic Class Heavy Cruiser
Mass 150   75 DP
Jump 4 (6%) = 11
Maneuver 5 (15%) = 23
Fuel Tankage (24.5%) = 37  (4 boxes)
71 mass used, 79 remaining
Hull armor Level 2 (10%) = 15  (64 remain)
2 Nuclear Damper/PDAF = 2 (62 remain)
Sandcaster Level 3 = 9 (53 remain)
Meson Screen Level 2 = 6 (48 remain)
2 Fire Cons (free)
1 Extra Fire Con = 3 (45 remain)
Heavy Spinal Meson Gun = 12 (33 remain)
4 Particle Accelerator Batteries (A batteries, 3 arc) = 12 (21 remain)
4 Missle Racks (3 arc) = 8 (13 remain)
2 Ammo Racks = 2 (11 remain)
11 Laser Batteries (C batts, 3 arc) = 11 (0 remain)

Skirmish Class Light Carrier
Mass 58    29 DP
Jump 4 (6%) = 3
Man 2 (6%) = 3
Fuel (23%) = 13 (4 boxes)
19 mass used, 39 remaining
2 fire cons (free)
1 Meson Bay Battery (A+ Battery, 3 arc) = 4 (35 remain)
1 Particle Accelerator Battery (A Batt, 3 arc) = 3 (32 remain)
2 Fusion Batteries (B Battery, 3 arc) = 4 (28 remain)
1 Missle Battery (3 arc) = 2 (26 remain)
1 Ammo Rack = 1 (25 remain)
4 Laser Batteries (C Batts, 3 arc) = 3 (21 remain)
3 Nuclear Dampers (PDAF) =  3 (18 remain)
Sandcaster Level 2 = 6 (12 remain)
2 Fighter Bays (1 sqdn standard, 1 sqdn attack)= 12 (0 remain)

Wind Class Strike Carrier
Mass 150    75 DP
Jump 3 (5%) = 8
Man 6 (18%) = 27
Fuel (20%) = 30 (4 boxes)
65 mass used, 85 remaining
2 fire cons (free)
1 extra fire con =3 (82 remain)
1 Light Meson Spinal Mount = 6 (76 remain)
1 Particle Accelerator Battery (A Batt, 3 arc) = 3 (73 remain)
1 Fusion Gun Battery (B Battery, 3 arc) = 2 (71 remain)
6 Missle Battery (3 arc) = 12 (59 remain)
6 Ammo Racks = 6 (53 remain)
9 Laser Batteries (C Batts, 3 arc) = 9 (44 remain)
3 Nuclear Dampers (PDAF) =  3 (41 remain)
Meson Screen Level-3 = 9 (32 remain)
Armor Level-1 (5%) = 8 (24 remain)
2 Repulsor Bays (ADAF) = 6 (18 remain)
Sandcaster Level 2 = 6 (12 remain)
2 Fighter Bays (1 sqdn standard, 1 sqdn attack)= 12 (0 remain)

Antiama Class Fleet Carrier
Mass 200    100 DP
Jump 4 (6%) = 12
Man 2 (6%) = 12
Fuel (23%) = 46 (8 boxes)
70 mass used, 130 remaining
3 fire cons (free)
1 Meson Gun Battery (A+ Batt, 3 arc) = 4 (126 remain)
1 Particle Accelerator Battery (A Batt, 3 arc) = 3 (123 remain)
2 Fusion Gun Batteries (B Battery, 3 arc) = 4 (119 remain)
8 Missle Battery (3 arc) = 16 (103 remain)
16 Ammo Racks = 16 (87 remain)
7 Laser Batteries (C Batts, 3 arc) = 7 (80 remain)
3 Nuclear Dampers (PDAF) =  3 (77 remain)
Meson Screen Level-3 = 9 (68 remain)
Armor Level-1 (5%) = 8 (60 remain)
1 Repulsor Bays (ADAF) = 3 (57 remain)
Sandcaster Level 3 = 9 (48 remain)
8 Fighter Bays (3 std, 3 atk, 2 int,)= 48 (0 remain)

Sylea Class Battleship
Mass 200    100 DP
Jump 3 (5%) = 10
Man 6 (18%) = 36
Fuel (20%) = 40 (8 boxes)
86 mass used, 114 remaining
3 fire cons (free)
1 extra fire con = 3 (111 remain)
1 Heavy Meson Spinal Mount = 12 (99 remain)
9 Missle Battery (3 arc) = 18 (81 remain)
16 Ammo Racks = 16 (65 remain)
15 Laser Batteries (C Batts, 3 arc) = 15 (50 remain)
3 Nuclear Dampers (PDAF) =  3 (47 remain)
Meson Screen Level-2 = 6 (41 remain)
Armor Level-2 (10%) = 20 (21 remain)
2 Repulsor Bays (ADAF) = 6 (15 remain)
Sandcaster Level 3 = 9 (6 remain)
1 Fighter Bay (1 standard) = 6 (0 remain)

Plankwell Class Battleship
Mass 400    200 DP
Jump 4 (6%) = 24
Man 5 (15%) = 60
Fuel (24.5%) = 98 (8 boxes)
182 mass used, 218 remaining
3 fire cons (free)
1 extra fire cons = 3 (215 remain)
1 Heavy Meson Spinal Mount = 12 (203 remain)
16 Particle Accelerator Batteries (A Batt, 3 arc) = 48 (155 remain)
6 Fusion Gun Batteries (B Battery, 3 arc) = 12 (143 remain)
12 Missle Battery (3 arc) = 24 (119 remain)
20 Ammo Racks = 20 (99 remain)
9 Laser Batteries (C Batts, 3 arc) = 9 (90 remain)
4 Nuclear Dampers (PDAF) =  4 (86 remain)
Meson Screen Level-1 = 3 (83 remain)
Armor Level-2 (10%) = 40 (43 remain)
4 Repulsor Bays (ADAF) = 12 (30 remain)
Sandcaster Level 3 = 9 (21 remain)
7 Planetary Ortillery = 21 (0 remain)

Kokirrak Class Battleship
Mass 400    200 DP
Jump 4 (6%) = 24
Man 6 (18%) = 72
Fuel (25%) = 100 (8 boxes)
196 mass used, 204 remaining
3 fire cons (free)
1 extra fire con = 3 (201 remain)
1 Heavy Meson Spinal Mount = 12 (189 remain)
10 Particle Accelerator Batteries (A Batt, 3 arc) = 30 (159 remain)
9 Fusion Gun Batteries (B Battery, 3 arc) = 18 (141 remain)
9 Missle Battery (3 arc) = 18 (123 remain)
18 Ammo Racks = 18 (105 remain)
15 Laser Batteries (C Batts, 3 arc) = 15 (90 remain)
5 Nuclear Dampers (PDAF) =  5 (85 remain)
Meson Screen Level-3 = 9 (76 remain)
Armor Level-2 (10%) = 40 (36 remain)
4 Repulsor Bays (ADAF) = 12 (24 remain)
Sandcaster Level 3 = 9 (15 remain)
5 Planetary Ortillery = 15 (0 remain)

Tigress Class Superdreadnought
Mass 1000    500 DP
Jump 4 (6%) = 60
Man 5 (18%) = 180
Fuel (25%) = 250 (8 boxes)
490 mass used, 510 remaining
3 fire cons (free)
5 extra fire cons = 15 (495 remain)
1 Heavy Meson Spinal Mount = 12 (483 remain)
25 Particle Accelerator Batteries (A Batt, 3 arc) = 75 (408 remain)
35 Fusion Gun Batteries (B Battery, 3 arc) = 70 (338 remain)
35 Missle Battery (3 arc) = 70 (268 remain)
48 Ammo Racks = 48 (228 remain)
24 Laser Batteries (C Batts, 3 arc) = 24 (204 remain)
7 Nuclear Dampers (PDAF) =  7 (187 remain)
Meson Screen Level-3 = 9 (178 remain)
Armor Level-2 (10%) = 100 (78 remain)
10 Repulsor Bays (ADAF) = 30 (48 remain)
Sandcaster Level 2 = 6 (42 remain)
8 Fighter Bays (2 std, 3 atk, 2 int, 1 lng rng) = 42 (0 remain)

Empress Troyhune Class Planetoid Monitor (Rorise Planetary Navy, Mora Subsector)
Mass 100   50 DP
No Jump Drives
Maneuver 6 (18%) = 18
Fuel Tankage (5%) = 5  (4 boxes)
23 mass used, 77 remaining
Hull armor Level 1 (5%) = 5  (72 remain)
2 Nuclear Damper/PDAF = 2 (70 remain)
Sandcaster Level 2 = 6 (64 remain)
2 Fire Cons (free)
Light Spinal Meson Gun = 6 (58 remain)
4 Fusion Batteries (B batteries, 3 arc) = 8 (50 remain)
6 Missle Racks (3 arc) = 12 (38 remain)
6 Ammo Racks = 6 (32 remain)
8 Laser Batteries (C batts, 3 arc) = 8 (24 remain)
1 Fighter Bay (standard fighters) = 6 (18 remain)
18 empty cargo spaces

Lurenti Class Battlecarrier
Mass 600    300 DP
Jump 4 (6%) = 24
Man 2 (15%) = 60
Fuel (24.5%) = 98 (8 boxes)
182 mass used, 218 remaining
3 fire cons (free)
1 extra fire con = 3 (215 remain)
6 Meson Gun Bays (A+ Batteries, 3 arc) = 24 (191 remain)
12 Particle Accelerator Batteries (A Batt, 3 arc) = 36 (155 remain)
12 Fusion Gun Batteries (B Battery, 3 arc) = 24 (131 remain)
15 Missle Battery (3 arc) = 30 (101 remain)
15 Ammo Racks = 15 (86 remain)
12 Laser Batteries (C Batts, 3 arc) = 12 (74 remain)
5 Nuclear Dampers (PDAF) =  5 (69 remain)
Meson Screen Level-3 = 9 (60 remain)
5 Repulsor Bays (ADAF) = 15 (45 remain)
Sandcaster Level 3 = 9 (36 remain)
6 Fighter Bays (3 std, 1 atk, 1 int, 1 long rng) = 36 (0 remain)
Note: ships carries 7 Nolikian Class Battle Riders in tow

Nolikian Class Battlerider
Mass 40    20 DP
No Jump Drives
Man 6 (18%) = 7
Fuel (5%) = 2 (4 boxes)
9 mass used, 31 remaining
2 fire cons (free)
1 Light Meson Spinal Mount = 6 (25 remain)
2 Particle Accelerator Batteries (A Batt, 3 arc) = 6 (19 remain)
1 Fusion Gun Battery (B Battery, 3 arc) = 2 (17 remain)
1 Missle Battery (3 arc) = 2 (15 remain)
3 Laser Batteries (C Batts, 3 arc) = 3 (12 remain)
1 Nuclear Dampers (PDAF) =  1 (11 remain)
Meson Screen Level-1 = 3 (8 remain)
Armor Level-1 (5%) = 2 (6 remain)
1 Repulsor Bays (ADAF) = 3 (3 remain)
Sandcaster Level 1 = 3 (0 remain)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 04:58:40 +0000
From: "Will" <panzer@mail.sisna.com>
Subject: Re:Space Combat System

> It is supposed to be similar to Full Thrust (which I've never played), and
> is nicely done. 
> Overall I am very impressed.  The game is fast, simple, and quick to
> learn.  Hopefully T4.1 will be as good.
Here is the Full Thrust to Traveller rules for owners of FT

FIFTH FRONTIER THRUST:
A FULL THRUST CONVERSION FOR STARSHIP COMBAT 
IN THE UNIVERSE OF MARC MILLER'S TRAVELLER

by Steve Parsonage 10/27/97 -- steve1@i1.net
Written on Microsoft Word Pad 3.2 in .txt format

Introduction:
One of my all-time favorite backgrounds for science fiction gaming is the far future setting of 
GDW's Traveller Role Playing Game.  Since I'm also a big fan of Full Thrust, I decided to go 
about creating a set of rules converting Travellers' mostly abstract "High Guard" starship 
combat system to Full Thrust.  Most of the weapon systems available to Traveller ships have 
been represented by Full Thrust systems, and ship systems that don't apply to the Traveller 
universe have been noted in the text.  Several changes have been made to the capabilities of 
system to better represent Traveller combat (examples:  ships carry large multi-volley missle 
launchers; laser "C" batteries are both offensive and defensive weapons, etc).  These rules 
focus on combat between massive capital ships bristling with dozens of weapons' batteries.  
Smaller Traveller ships (ie: Millenium Falcon sized) are too small a scale to be detailed here, 
but the author is preparing a set of Traveller small craft rules.  Also included is a brief history
of the Traveller Universe to aid players in designing battle scenarios.
5th Frontier Thrust has not been thoroughly playtested, and the author invites commentary to 
improve these rules.  Feel free to contact steve1@i1.net with your suggestions.
Note: material adapted from the Traveller Universe, formely the property of GDW (now Sweetpea 
Entertainment) is used without permission.  The author has created these rules out of admiration 
and respect for the designers of Traveller, and out of gratitude for the countless hours of 
enjoyment it has provided him.  It is the author's intention that these rules help promote the 
play of his two favorite games: Traveller and Full Thrust.

Movement Conversions:
Movement works exactly as it does in full thrust.  Sublight ship drives are called Maneuver 
Drives in Traveller, and only range from 1-6.  FTL drives are called Jump drives, and dictate 
(in parsecs--or, hexes) how far a ship can travel during a 1-week jump, before refuelling.  
According to Traveller convention, solar systems usually occur within 1-3 parsecs of one another.  
Note, Jump Drives have no bearing on the game except during a campaign that the players might 
devise.  They only exist to take up Hull Points on a ship during design.  Most of the ship 
designs listed here have a Jump Rating of 3-6, allowing them to reach most systems at the 
densities at which they occur in Traveller.

System Conversions:
Maneuver Drive:  Unlike Full Thrust, a ship's Maneuver rating costs a percentage of ship mass per 
point, regardless of ship type.
Drive Number--          1       2       3       4       5       6
Percentage of Mass:     3       6       9       12      15      18      round fractions up

Jump Drive:  Ship Jump ratings also cost a percentage of ship mass per point, regardless of ship
 type.  All modern capital ships should be built with a rating of 3 or more (Ships w/Jump 1-2 lack
the mobility to respond to enemies w/longer jump ranges, and risk being strategically outmaneuvered.
Drive Number--          1       2       3       4       5       6
Percentage of Mass:     3       4       5       6       7       8       round fractions up
NOTE: when jump drives take damage, reduce them as per maneuver drives in combat.

Fuel Tanks:  Ships require fuel to operate their drives.  A percentage of the ship's mass must 
be reserved for fuel use, depending upon the jump rating and maneuver rating.  Fuel tanks are 
partitioned off into boxes and when a threshold check occurs, each box (ie: tank) rolls for 
damage.  When a ship runs out of half of its fuel boxes, it must choose to disengage or fight.  
Ships which stay to fight may no longer disengage.  Ships which run out of fuel are not allowed 
to alter thrust, jump, or fire spinal mount weapons.  
Jump Drive #--  1       2       3       4       5       6
Percentage of Mass:     5       10      15      20      25      30      round fractions up
Maneuver Drive #--      1       2       3       4       5       6
Percentage of Mass:     2.5     3       3.5     4       4.5     5       round fractions up

Number of fuel boxes:  
Escort ships: 2         Cruiser ships: 4                Capital ships:  8

Fighters: Operate as per normal fighters in the rules.  Each individual fighter in a squadron 
represents about 10 actual ships in Traveller scale.  If positioned such that they are in the 
line of fire between a missle firing ship and a friendly ship, the fighter squadron may choose 
to forfeit its normal attack and make a point defense attack to reduce the enemy missles' 
strength.  Each 5 or 6 rolled reduces the potential damage of the enemy missle volley by 1 
point.  Fighters may intercept incoming missles regardless of the squadron's facing.

Systems not available:  Torpedo Fighters, Sensors, ECM, Weasel Decoys, Normal Screens, Normal 
PDAF & ADAF that work vs. fighters, Reflex Fields, Unmodified (ie: non-black globe generator) 
Cloaking Fields

Weapon Conversions:
OFFENSIVE WEAPONS:
Beam Lasers:  C batteries
Energy Weapon barbettes/bays (plasma & fusion beams): B batteries
Particle Accelerator barbettes/bays: A batteries
Meson Accelerator bays:  A batteries that ignore armor, but not meson screens--add 1 mass 
Missle Batteries: Operate as submunition packs.  Instead of one shot weapons, a missle launcher
 is purchased.  The missle batteries come with one submunition pack already loaded.  Additional 
packs may be purchased as ammo racks.  Missle Batteries are bought with firing arcs, just as 
normal A, B, or C batteries:  Launcher:  Mass 2  Cost 2+1/arc;  Ammo rack:  Mass 1  Cost 1.  
Note: ammo racks may resupply any intact launcher on a ship.  Normal submunitions packs are not 
available.
Spinal Mount Particle Accelerator:  Fires a 1" wide particle beam out the front centerline of 
the ship in a straight line.  Requires 1 turn of charging between firings.  There are two sizes 
available: light and heavy.  Ships may have only one spinal weapon.  
Does damage by range as follows:  
                                Heavy:  Mass 10  Cost 25 
Range           0-3             4-12            13-24           25-36           37-48
                5d6             4d6             3d6             2d6             1d6
                                Light:  Mass 5  Cost 12 
Range           0-2             3-6             7-12            13-24           25-36   
                5d6             4d6             3d6             2d6             1d6
Damage rolled is equal to the number on the dice.  Subtract 1 per level of armor encountered 
(all dice do a minimum of one damage).
Spinal Mount Meson Accelerator:  Fires a 1" wide meson beam directly out the front centerline 
of the ship in a straight line.  Unlike the spinal particle beam, the meson beam passes through 
ship armor, and can pass through and damage multiple ships in a straight line, until it encounters 
a target with a functioning meson screen, at which point it stops.  Requires 1 turn of charging 
between firings.  Light and heavy sizes are available.  Ships may only have one spinal weapon.  
Does damage by range as follows:   
                                Heavy:  Mass 12  Cost 40
Range           0-6             7-12            13-24           25-36           37-48
                5d6             4d6             3d6             2d6             1d6
                                Light:  Mass 6  Cost  20
Range           0-2             3-6             7-12            13-24           25-36
                5d6             4d6             3d6             2d6             1d6
Damage rolled is equal to the number on the dice.  Subtract 1 per level of meson screen encountered
 (all dice do a minimum of one damage).

Offensive weapons not available:  Normal Submunitions Packs, Full Thrust Missles, AA Batteries, 
Needle Beams, Pulse Torpedoes, Railguns, Scatterguns, Wave Guns, Nova Cannons

DEFENSIVE WEAPONS:
Beam Lasers:  C batteries may be used as PDAF vs. fighters, and may fire at incoming missle shots 
(ie: submunitions packs).  See "Point Defense Rules" below.
Repulsors:  ADAF, but only vs. missle attacks.  See Below.
Meson Screens:  Operate as normal screens, but only block damage from Meson guns (bays and spinal 
mounts)
Nuclear Dampers:  PDAF, but only vs. missle attacks.  See Below.
Black Globe Generators:  Operates as a cloaking field, except that the ship may not change thrust 
or direction, and may not fire while the field is operating.  Only the number of turns the field 
is on is predetermined.  Mass 1, but only as a rare artifact experimentally installed.
Sandcasters:  Sandcaster batteries fire clouds of anti-laser and energy weapon granules that 
envelop the firing ship.  Each sandcaster battery creates a cloud that acts as a level-1 shield 
versus Laser Beam, Fusion Beam, and Missle Fire (though does not protect against Particle or Meson
 weapons).  A counter is placed next to the firing ship for each sandcaster battery firing, 
representing 1 level of shielding per counter, up to level-3.  Ships may fire through their own 
Sand without penalty.  Sand has the same direction & velocity as the firing ship, and protects 
the ship until it makes a course or speed change, then the sand drifts away and is lost.  The 
ship must get another chance to fire to re-envelop itself with protective sand.  Firing sand 
does not require a fire con.
        Sandcasters:  Mass/level  3       Cost/level  20
Ship Armor:  Can be installed up to level 2, and does require a percentage of the ship's mass 
to be installed.  Level-1 = 5% Mass.  Level-2 = 10% Mass.

POINT DEFENSE rules:  
These are modified from normal full thrust.  Nuclear Dampers may "fire" at incoming missle volleys, reducing the potential damage by 1 point per 4 or 5, and 2 points per 6 rolled on each die.  Repulsors may do so at range, just as an ADAF system in full 
thrust.  Roll for each ADAF, 1 point reduced
 for a 4 or 5, 2 points for a 6.
Laser "C" batteries may be fired in a point defense role versus missles, destroying 1 potential damage point on a roll of 6 only.  If a C battery is fired in this way, it may not fire later in the turn, nor may it be used for point defense if it has alre
ady fired this turn.  C batteries may also f
ire against fighter groups in range, again destroying 1 fighter on a roll of 5 or 6 (just as in more thrust).  Remember that firing any number of C batteries in a turn as point defense weapons uses up a fire con for that turn.

Point defense procedure versus incoming "submunition" missles:
1) Declare the missle attack.
2) The attacked ship chooses how many Nuclear Dampers, Repulsors and Laser Batteries he wants to
 commit to shooting down the incoming missles.
3) The attacked ship rolls dice, and totals the number of "potential" damage points negated by 
the point defense.
4) The attacking player rolls his missle dice and does his damage, modifying his roll as per the
 normal rules for each level of obscuring sand.  He then subtracts the point defense total from 
the hits he just inflicted.  Excess hits strike the ship.  Excess point defense is fired and lost 
(not saved from turn to turn)

Traveller Fleet Background Info:
The Traveller Universe is composed of several major empires, the largest of which is the human-
dominated 3rd Imperium.  There have been a number of major wars between these powers, as well 
as many conflict in the Imperium's pre-history that are worthy of gameplay, so I'm also going 
to detail some of the major events in the galaxy's past that might be fun to play out.  But 
first, the Traveller empires:
THE (3rd) IMPERIUM:  Centrally located, largest of all the powers.  The Imperium is over 1100 
years old.  After the stagnant first (Vilani-human) imperium was overthrown and replaced by the 
Terran (Solomani-human) second imperium, the long decay of the galactic economy caused a major 
collapse of interstellar civilization, leading to a 1000 year dark age called the Long Night.  
A small cluster of worlds called The Silean Federation survived, and after a slow buildup of 
industrial power, began to expand and recontact the worlds of it's predecessors.  After recontacting 
and absorbing about a hundred worlds, the Silean Federation declared itself the 3rd Imperium, 
inheritor of the previous empires' legacy.  Over the course of a thousand years, the 3rd Imperium
 grew until expanding beyond the borders of its predecessors.  It now contains over 10,000 member
 worlds, maintaining order by allowing its members local autonomy in return for feudal loyalty 
to the Empire, backed by a powerful military.  The Imperium allows its worlds to be free, instead
 controlling the space between the worlds.  The Imperial core is heavily settled, and although 
expansion has stopped (and there are alien empires surrounding the Imperium), the vast border 
regions are still under development as frontiers.  
The Imperial Navy enjoys a slight technological advantage over rival empires, and vast industrial
 resources.  The Navy is structured on a three-level system of command.  At the top is the Imperial
 Fleet itself, consisting of the best ships and crews.  It defends the Imperium from external threats,
 protects the spacelanes, and enforces (when necessary) the will of the Imperial government.  
Supplementing the Imperial Fleet is the Colonial Navy.  Organized by sector, these are 2nd Rate 
ships, funded by regional governments to perform less important duties, and to delay invaders 
until the main Imperial Fleet can respond.  Colonial Forces are composed of older, less mobile 
Cruisers and Battleships, as well as substantial commerce protection forces.  Finally, there 
are the planetary navies.  These are mostly small ships designed for system defense and patrol 
duties (too small to be detailed with these rules).  Occasionally, wealthier planets will 
procure small capital ships, but the Imperium prefers it's member worlds to not maintain 
separate battle fleets.  A separate organization, the Scout Service maintains its own fleet of 
ships to explore new worlds, survey the empire, and deliver the mail by express service.  The 
Scouts have a small fleet of older Imperial Cruisers converted for exploration and diplomatic 
duty.
THE ZHODANI CONSULATE:  A race of humans to spinward of the Imperium that is ruled by psionically 
talented elite.  Despite a lack of freedom, the prevalence of telepathic screening prevents 
mental illness or lying in Zhodani culture, creating satisfaction with a society composed of 
a few nobles ruling many "proles".  The Zhodani have fought 5 major wars along the frontier 
with the Imperium (the Frontier Wars) over the developing Spinward Marches Sector.  These wars 
have been mostly inconclusive.  The Zhodani have a large fleet organized along similar lines to 
the Imperium.  Though slightly behind the Imperium in technology, the Zhodani use telepaths to 
efficiently coordinate their battle fleets.  RULE:  The Zhodani may roll 1d6 per firecon they 
possess.  For each one rolled, the Zhodani may either add one to the next turn's initiative roll
, or look at one enemy ship's movement plot.
THE VARGR EXTENTS:  To coreward of the Imperium lay a vast area of petty states ruled by the 
Vargr.  These are canines, wolves transplanted from Terra and genetically manipulated to intelligence 
by the Ancients for regions unknown.  Though Vargr raiders are daring, they lack long-term 
organizational abilities.  With a pack-mentality, Vargr constantly strive for social dominance, 
and pocket empires rise and fall with the fortunes and charisma of their leadership.  The 
Imperium suppressed Vargr raiding early on during it's expansion in a series of small wars 
called "The Vargr Pacification Campaigns".  During each of the frontier wars, individual Vargr 
states have been induced by the Zhodani to strike the Imperium along its flank.  Vargr Navies 
are often composed of mercenary Corsair squadrons, who use plunder to finance capital ship 
development.  There are some larger Vargr powers though, who have significant fleet assets.
THE ASLAN HIERATE:  The Aslan are vaguely reminiscent of Terran lions (or rather lion-men), and 
dominate a large area to spinward and rimward of the Imperium.  The 29 clans of the Hierate seek 
to expand feudal land holdings for their male leadership, while its administration and economy 
are run by the technically-minded Aslan females.  Aslan expansion is limited by conflicts between 
clans, and by the Imperium, who fought a series of border wars against them in the Imperial years 
400-500.  Each of the clans maintains its own Fleet.  There are many more splinter clans that 
maintain fleets, but lack capital ships.
THE SOLOMANI SPHERE:  Located rimward to the Imperium, the Solomani Sphere is dominated by humans 
originating from the Sol system (ie: Terra).  Originally the sphere was a province of the Imperium 
allowed to develop independently.  The Sphere expanded to rimward and governed its worlds without 
oversight from the Imperial government.  When these worlds complained to the Empress that the 
Solomani were racists, enforcing a code of racial superiority of "True" Terran Humans, she 
revoked their charter.  The Solomani seceeded from the Empire and war broke out in the late 
1000s.  The Solomani Rim War began with an invasion of Imperial space that was eventually 
repelled with heavy losses.  The Imperium began a two-pronged invasion of the Sphere, aimed at 
capturing Terra.  After a costly siege, Terra was conquered, but neither power could afford to 
continue the pitched fighting.  A ceasefire was signed that has lasted ever since.  Today 
relations are outwardly tense, but the need for trade between the two powers maintains a 
fairly stable peace.  The Solomani Sphere maintains a sizeable fleet, slightly less advanced 
than the Imperium, but lacking the vast industrial resources of their neighbor.
THE HIVER CONFEDERATION:  Located to trailing and rimward of the Imperium, the Hivers are a 
technologically advanced, insatiably curious race of quadrepedal/starfish like aliens.  They 
have had no notable conflicts with the Imperium, although tensions exist with the bordering 
Solomani Sphere.  The Hivers, while peaceful, maintain a navy after experiencing a bloody 
conflict with the K'Kree to coreward.  The Hivers are masters of advanced computer technology, 
and social sciences.  In the face of the militant K'Kree navy, the Hivers forced a peace by 
threatening to use Psychohistory techniques (a la the Foundation series) to fundamentally 
change the K'Kree culture.  The socially rigid xenophobic K'Kree backed down.  The Hiver fleet 
is designed to protect the borders, protect merchant ships, and explore the frontiers.
THE K'KREE:  Called Centaurs by humans due to their resemblance to the creatures of Terran 
legend, the K'Kree are separated from the Imperium to trailing by a large number of small human 
and alien client states.  The K'Kree Empire is called the Two-Thousand Worlds after the number 
of stars visible in the night sky on their homeworld.  The K'Kree are intelligent herbivorous 
grazers, who crave social contact, open spaces (they're claustrophobic), and the safety of the 
herd.  Early in their history, their world was invaded by a race of carnivores.  The K'Kree 
defended their world and exterminated the invaders.  The realization that other carnivores 
might exist in space motivated them to control the stars.  As they encounter new races, they 
force them to conform to K'Kree society.  If the aliens refuse to become Herbivores with a herd 
mentality, the K'Kree ruthlessly exterminate them.  They have fought one war with the Hivers, 
which they lost when the Hivers threatened to use Psychohistory to fundamentally change K'Kree 
society.  K'Kree ships are larger than normal, to prevent claustrophobia-induced insanity in their 
crews.  The Navy is run by a Leader "caste" and staffed by the "Warrior" caste.  There is no 
division between ground and space services.
THE DARRIAN CONFEDERATION:  is a small cluster of worlds located between the Zhodani and Imperium.  
They are a minor human race that developed ultra-high technology during the long night.  An 
accident destroyed their civilization, but now they command a few powerful artifacts that keep 
them autonomous from either power.  The are presently allied with the Imperium, against their 
neighbor, the Sworld Worlds.  They otherwise maintain a small fleet with a lower technology 
than the Zhodani or Imperium.
THE SWORD WORLDS: is a small client state on the Imperial Border founded during the long night. 
 The Sword Worlds are fiercely independent, often fractious, but when unified have allied with 
the Zhodani against the Imperium.  The Sword Worlds maintain a small fleet of captial ships that 
are significantly technologically inferior to the Imperium's.

A BRIEF HISTORY OF THE TRAVELLER UNIVERSE:
300,000 years ago, a race of beings known only as the Ancients, controlled this area of the galaxy. 
 For reasons unknown, they transplanted primitive humans from their home planet of Terra to over
 100 worlds in the region.  Three of these human races eventually discovered the secret to the Jump 
Drive and founded galactic empires.  The first were the Vilani (homeplanet: Vland) who slowly 
developed a stable, but socially rigid caste based interstellar society.  The rigidity of the 
Vilani social system to change led them to force differing alien races on their borders to conform 
to the Vilani order.  Between 1000BC and 2100 AD, the Vilani conquered all their neighbors, ordered 
the halt to all "dangerous" technological innovation, and turned inward.  They closed the borders of 
their stagnating empire until suddenly contacted by human aliens along their frontier.
In 2100 AD, the nations of Earth had become unified under a UN based world government and had 
collectively discovered the secret to the Jump Drive.  They were surprised to find that the 
first aliens they contacted were humans calling themselves "Vilani".  They were alarmed to 
discover that the Vilani already owned the entire galatic arm.  Peaceful relations broke down 
during disputes over Terran economic expansion, and over the next 200 years, innumerable wars 
were fought between the upstart Terrans and the corrupt, inefficient Vilani Empire.  Eventually 
the Vilani surrendered to the Terran Navy, who declared a new Second Empire, the joint "Rule of 
Man".  The Terrans tried to stop the decay of of the First Imperium by introducing Terran social 
ideas, but it didn't work.  The Interstellar economy was disrupted by too much social change too 
fast, and slowly fell apart.  After 300 years of trying to prevent the First Empire from collapsing, 
the Second Empire itself fell apart.  The resulting 2000 year dark age, in which interstellar trade 
all but stopped, was called the Long Night.
The Long Night ended when a small group of trading worlds in the galactic core, the Sylean 
Federation, began rebuilding itself into an industrial powerhouse.  Under the leadership of 
Cleon Zhunastu, the Sylean Federation either defeated its rivals, or economically enticed others 
into joining it.  After swelling to a size of 100+ worlds, Cleon declared himself Emperor, 
founding the Third Imperium on the ashes of its predecessors.  Cleon's Imperium used Feudalism 
to control the vast distances between worlds.  Worlds were mostly left to govern themselves.  
They need only swear loyalty to the Imperium, and follow certain basic rules.  The Imperium 
controlled the space between the stars (and the profitable interstellar trade).  Over the next 
1100 years, The Imperium expanded beyond the borders of it's predecessors, until stopped by 
foreign powers, or lack of desire to expand the vast frontier.  Today, in the 57th century AD, 
The Imperium contains over 10,000 worlds, is home to scores of sentient races, and has fought 
wars with all of its neighbors.  On the surface, Imperium is the most stable empire in all of 
human history, though the seeds of Imperial assassination and factional Civil War lie just 
around the corner...
WARS IN TRAVELLER HISTORY:
- -1000 BC:  Vilani Consolidation Wars
2100-2300 AD:  The Interstellar Wars (Terran/Solomani vs. Vilani)
2600-2800 AD:  Internicine Wars during Collapse of 2nd Imperium. Conflicts w/Aslan & Vargr
2800-4500 AD:  Sporadic conflicts between pocket empires during the Long Night
4500-4600 AD:  Sylean Federation fights wars with neighbors.  Founds Imperium.
Year Zero declared upon foundation of 3rd Imperium.  All years hence listed from the foundation date.
100-290:  Vargr Pacification Campaigns.  Many short conflicts fought as Imperium expands.
400-500: Aslan Border Wars.
600: First Frontier War w/Outworld Coalition (Zhodani & Vargr/Sword World client allies)
610-630:  Civil War in Imperium.  Assassination of Empress Nicole leads to countless battles between
self proclaimed emperors and regents backed by private naval elements.  Member worlds stay neutral.
625: Second Frontier War w/Outworld Coalition (see above).  Zhodani try to take advantage of Civil War
but are strategically checked.
630: Admiral Alkalihoi, heroine of Second Frontier War defeats last of "Barracks Emperors" and returns
stability to government.  Civil War ends.
1030-40: Solomani Rim War
1035-40: Third Frontier War w/reformed Outworld Coalition
1080-2:  Fourth Frontier War "False War" accidentally breaks out.  Lack of preparation prompts ceasefire.
1107-10:  Fifth Frontier War w/Outworld Coalition.  Daring Zhodani advances and Imperial mismanagement lead
to apparent Zhodani victory.  Dramatic Imperial counterattack leads to a stalemate and armistice.
1120-1130:  Assassination of Emperor Strephon leads to Second Civil War.  This time multiple claimants to the 
throne establish regional power bases.  The Imperium splits into a dozen regional states, and destructive
warfare shatters much of the Imperial core.  Border states fight with Aslan, Vargr and Solomani incursions.
1150: From Traveller The New Era (official history pending): The virus spreads through much of the Imperium, 
destroying computer technology and ushering in a new dark age.


Ship Designs:
A note on ship classes:  most commercial and patrol vessels are small (averaging 400 MT of 
hydrogen displacement--The Millenium Falcon masses 200 MT).  Fleet escort vessels and destroyers
 average at least 1000-8000 MT of hydrogen.  Light Cruisers start at about 20,000 MT, and Cruisers 
average 50,000 MT, about 1/4 the size of a Star Destroyer in Star Wars.  In Traveller, Cruisers 
are very large ships which are capable of carrying spinal mount weapons, the standard heavy 
armament for fleet actions.  Thus, the disparity in size between escorts and cruisers is very 
great.  I have used a conversion rate of 1 Mass = 500 MT/1 DP per 1000 MT.  The following is a 
revised ship class chart:

Ship Class                              Type                    Mass                    DP

Frigate                         Escort                  4                       2
Destroyer                               Escort                  6                       3
Fleet Escort/Hvy Destroyer      Escort                  10                      5
Light Cruiser                   Cruiser                 40                      20
Cruiser                         Cruiser                 100                     50
Heavy Cruiser                   Cruiser                 150                     75
Battlecruiser                   Capital                 200                     100
Battleship                              Capital                 400                     200
Superdreadnaught                        Capital                 1000                    500
Lt. Carrier                             Cruiser                 60                      30
Heavy Carrier                   Cruiser                 120                     60
Fleet Carrier                   Capital                 200                     100

When designed, ships start with all mass available to fill with weapons AND drive/fuel systems. 
Thus ships with poor drive performance can be fitted with more weapons, and ships with better 
range and drive ability have to be stocked with less weaponry.

SAMPLE SHIPS:  
These ship designs have been adapted from Classic Traveller Supplement 9: Fighting Ships.  They 
are representative of the ship classes available to the Imperial Navy in the period immediately 
before the start of the Second Civil War.  Ship designs from the other races in Traveller, being 
rare and hard to find, are left open to the players' interpretation.

Midu Agashaam Class Destroyer
Mass 6   3 DP
Jump 4, Maneuver 6, Fuel (49% total)/2 boxes  = 3 (3 mass remaining)
1 fire con (free)
2 Laser Battery (C Batts, 3 arc) = 2 (1 remaining)
1 Nuclear Damper (PDAF) = 1 (0 remaining)

Sloan Class Fleet

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2214
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Friday, January 9 1998      Volume 1997 : Number 2215



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Kessel run
Re: Question for Marc
Re: Speculations on Terran vs Vilani agression
Re: Fwd (#2):  Re:  ISP - phone charges, a responce
Re:Kessel run
Re:Kessel run
Re: Cylons in TNE
Re: Metrics aren't Intuitive
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2184
Re: Active Sensors
Re: FFS2 question (fission/isotope power plants.)
Re: THUDDD 8: Specifications
Re: the Assassination
Re: Metrics aren't Intuitive?
Re: 101 Lessons and 101 Sports
Re: Santa's Sleigh (a late breaking report)
Re: Starship Troopers novel (was Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2210)
Re: Droyne as PC's? 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:12:00 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: Kessel run

Leonard Erickson writes:

>> Also, fun to think of Han not really being that bright after all.  Gives
>> hope to the dimmest of us.
>
>And I quote, from the book "Star Wars", describing the scene where Han
>goes charging (by himself!) at that group of stormtroopers. 
>
>	Han reacted naturally, that is to say, without thinking...

   Then he is crazy...like a fox.  He knew instinctively that *nobody*
conducts a frontal assault against storm troopers unless they have numbers
on their side.  The storm troopers also know this fact, which is why when he
charged, they turned and run.

   IIRC, Han soon realizes that it will only be a matter of time before the
stormtroopers figure out his ruse.  Sure enough they did, but not before he
bought the other PCs err..I mean the rest of his group valuable time to
escape.  Han being Han, he also gets away without a scratch.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 16:45:51 +0100
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Question for Marc

At 22:29 1998-01-08 EST, Marc Miller wrote:
>I would like to put the entire Traveller previous to T4 on CD Rom. There=
 are
>some people working on the preliminaries to that project, evaluating
>practicalities and such.

I would certainly buy such a CD-ROM, since I recently got started playing
Traveller, and only have access to T4 rulebooks and supplements. Having
more background material, milleus and other stuff would be great.

>I have a proposal on my desk to make CT available on line, which I am
>evaluating.

Also a good thing. I doubt it will gain many new players, but the existing
players would be very happy about this.

>I am considering a limited edition photocopy run of JTAS #1 (cover would be
>thicker cover stock; all would be in black and white only). The issue would
>probably run $10.

Would the CD-ROM include Traveller material from JTAS and other magazines ?


Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm  (Link=F6ping, Sweden)
E-mail: jenry023@student.liu.se
UIN: 3844745   Get ICQ at http://www.mirabilis.com
Homepage: http://spacejens.ml.org
- ---------------------------------------------
"And I froze there, crouching in the small of plastique from the bolts,
because that was when the Fear found me, really found me, for the first=
 time"

Hinterlands, William Gibson
- ---------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 10:41:24 -0500
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: Speculations on Terran vs Vilani agression

Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU> wrote:
> The Terrans, in any case would not have likely submitted lightly to
> becoming a mere chattel of the Vilani Empire. You also have to realize
> that the Vilani had not run into a race that had developed Jump drive on
> its own in what, a couple thousand years? 

Uh, try never. The Genoee (sp?) and the Surreat (sp?) _seemed_ to
have discovered Jump on their own, but it was later uncovered that
that had copied Ancient relic drives. Thus the major race - minor race 
dichotomy was born.

This is not to say that the Vilani and Terrans didn't copy it 
themselves - they simply managed to hide the fact. 

I suppose the First Imperium had already encountered the Vargr
and maybe the K'kree (I don't have my stuff to check right now..)
but they sure as heck didn't conquer them.

> There was no precedent for
> handling the contact between Vilani and another major race except in the
> very early Vilani wars. Undoubtedly there were also things said to the
> effect that Terra owed huge amounts of royalties on the jump drive patents
> and other inventions that there already 'owned' by Vilani megacorps. There
> were probably some questions about who had 'given' us Jump drive
> technology.

Indeed. 

Also, it seems that Terrans and Vilani are much more similar than
(Terrans|Vilani) and members of most other minor human races, for
example, the Surreat and Genoee. How many monir human races did the
Vilani meet that were interfertile with themselves before they met the
Terrans? Possibly none, or certainly none that were as advanced as the 
Terrans.

Ethan
- --
Ethan Henry                              egh@klg.com
Java Evangelist                          http://www.klg.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 02:44:49 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd (#2):  Re:  ISP - phone charges, a responce

Richard A. Flores wrote:
>_____
> 
> PS:  I have removed all personal data from the forward to protect the
> privacy of my friends.  I WILL forward any questions or comments (w/ or w/o
> contact information, your choice).
> 
> 

I emailed this site and they replied that there is NO PLAN for what you
are talking about.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 18:06:45 +0000
From: "Ashley.greenall" <ashley.greenall@virgin.net>
Subject: Re:Kessel run

- --------------F9A890EE53FAA56D8ED22958
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Just putting my two penny's in.

This is from the star wars technical manual.

"At the time of Solo's first encounter with Kenobi and Skywalker, the FALCON'S
greatest claim to fame was that she was the ship that held the completion record
for the Kessel Run, something of a smuggler's speed and endurance contest. Those
ship's hired to make the run must deliver specified loads of certain substances
(usually spice from the mine of Kessel) to a number of moving trade ships before
they all pass beyond the limits of the free trade lanes near the planet."

So you could quote the distance you had travelled to get to all the trade ships.

Ash.


- --------------F9A890EE53FAA56D8ED22958
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>


<P>Just putting my two penny's in.

<P>This is from the star wars technical manual.

<P>"At the time of Solo's first encounter with Kenobi and Skywalker, the
<I>FALCON'S </I>greatest claim to fame was that she was the ship that held
the completion record for the Kessel Run, something of a smuggler's speed
and endurance contest. Those ship's hired to make the run must deliver
specified loads of certain substances (usually spice from the mine of Kessel)
to a number of moving trade ships before they all pass beyond the limits
of the free trade lanes near the planet."

<P>So you could quote the distance you had travelled to get to all the
trade ships.

<P>Ash.
<BR>&nbsp;</HTML>

- --------------F9A890EE53FAA56D8ED22958--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 18:06:45 +0000
From: "Ashley.greenall" <ashley.greenall@virgin.net>
Subject: Re:Kessel run

- --------------F9A890EE53FAA56D8ED22958
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Just putting my two penny's in.

This is from the star wars technical manual.

"At the time of Solo's first encounter with Kenobi and Skywalker, the FALCON'S
greatest claim to fame was that she was the ship that held the completion record
for the Kessel Run, something of a smuggler's speed and endurance contest. Those
ship's hired to make the run must deliver specified loads of certain substances
(usually spice from the mine of Kessel) to a number of moving trade ships before
they all pass beyond the limits of the free trade lanes near the planet."

So you could quote the distance you had travelled to get to all the trade ships.

Ash.


- --------------F9A890EE53FAA56D8ED22958
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>


<P>Just putting my two penny's in.

<P>This is from the star wars technical manual.

<P>"At the time of Solo's first encounter with Kenobi and Skywalker, the
<I>FALCON'S </I>greatest claim to fame was that she was the ship that held
the completion record for the Kessel Run, something of a smuggler's speed
and endurance contest. Those ship's hired to make the run must deliver
specified loads of certain substances (usually spice from the mine of Kessel)
to a number of moving trade ships before they all pass beyond the limits
of the free trade lanes near the planet."

<P>So you could quote the distance you had travelled to get to all the
trade ships.

<P>Ash.
<BR>&nbsp;</HTML>

- --------------F9A890EE53FAA56D8ED22958--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 22:17:05 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Cylons in TNE

>While every one putting in there two cents worth, here my cent and half.
>
>from Fantastic Films mag. April 1979.
>
>Ship name : Galactica
>Class: Battlestar   12 made ?

I was always of the understanding that they were so big that each colony
only had one, and control of them was almost heriditary.

>Deadweight tonnage, Metronic 273,000
>Flank Speed: 10^7 M.P.D

OK, at the risk of sounding really stupid, what is M.P.D.?

>"viper" attack fighter compliment: 36,  the Galatica had more because it
>took on the survivors.
>Shuttlecraft compliment: 8

Hmmm.  I'd alway's figured more.  I thought the standard compliment of
Vipers was ~80.  I also thought that with the number lost due to the ambush
of the fleet, and a lack of fuel to meet up with the Galactica that they
ended up with less than a full complement even with the surviving pilots of
the other Battlestars.  On that Token, the Pegasus did have pretty much a
full compliment when they ran into each other, and I believe the Galactica
ended up with most or all of them.

As for shuttles, I've not idea, but 8 sounds reasonable.

>Length Overall: 3,280 d.m

Again at the risk of sounding stupid, what is a 'd.m'?

Anyone have any figures on the crew size of either the Galactica, or a Base
Star?  For that matter, any estimates on the number of Cylon Raiders
carried by a base star?

				Zane


| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                       |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them.    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html            |

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 02:08:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Metrics aren't Intuitive

In mail you write:

>>BTW, what does a stone equal?  Are those US pounds or Imperial?  Does a
>
> A Stone = 14 pounds. As far as I know US lbs and Imperial lbs were the same.
>
>>pound of silver weigh the same as a pound of iron?  Don't know the answers
>
> You're joking? And which falls to the earth faster? a *pound* of iron weighs 
> one pound, as does a *pound* of feathers. That's about as old as methuselah!
>
> Now, if you're specifying Pounds Avoirdupois (12 ozs rather than 16 ozs to 
> the pound), then thats diffent.

Sorry, but Avoirdupois  *is* "Imperial". 1 oz =28.35 grams, 16 oz to
the pound. 

In *Troy* weight (used for precious metals), there are 12 oz to the
pound. But the ounces are a different size! Around 35 grams as I recall.

So a "pound" of iron and a "pound" of silver *don't* weigh the same if
you are using the "default" type of pound for each!

>>right off the top of your head to the last two?  Don't feel bad the only =
>>of
>>those questions I could have answered off the without a reference book wa=
>>s
>>the one about silver and iron.  (The answer is no for those of you who
>>don't know.  A pound of iron weighs 7000 grains and a pound of silver
>>weighs less.)
>
> 12ozs as opposed to 16ozs.

As I note, different size ounces, not merely a different *number*!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 20:56:36 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2184

At 10:15 PM 12/31/97, you wrote:
>
>>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
>>Subject: Coronation- done right.

>This is a ship I can easily imagine the Imperium building.
>
>It has a frightenly short-ranged punch and is too big to hide, too slow to
>run, and it has a glass jaw.
>
>The combination of seventy minimum meters diameter and 1.1 gees makes it's
>"hit certain" range about 1.5 light seconds. If Dave Golden's equations are
>right, a Coronation class can be consistently tagged out to about a million
>kilometers, under battlefield conditions.
>
>The 12.5 cm of superdense is grossly inadequate, being penetrated by a 3600
>megajoule PAW. The relative lack of nuclear dampers is, in my opinion,
>criminal, and the thinness of the meson screens worse.

Note that I said that these ships operate in pairs, as part of an extended
group of cruisers and escorts.

>The main weapon barely extends to one light-second, and the secondary
>weapons suite is questionable in it's ability to stop a strike of 250 or so
>nuke-det missiles.

See above mention of escort support.

>As a warship, it is built neither to run nor to fight.

I built this design based on the canonical mention of 90,00ton BBs.  This
called for compromise.  In playtests (using a BL/Mayday fusion) Royals have
acquitted themselves with great honor.

>In time of war, it will be a safe posting, for no sane admiral will ever
>risk one in line of battle.

I *eagerly* await your design for a TL12 90kton battleship.
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/    |
|-------------------------------------|
| "It is not the big armies that win  |
|  battles, it is the good ones"      |
|             -Maurice de Saxe        |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 02:17:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Active Sensors

In mail you write:

> Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com> wrote:
>
>>SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote:
>>> Not wishing to restart the flames on the piracy debate -
>>> Why doesn't the Imperium insist that all commercial (ie non-military)
>>> vessels operate with Active Sensors lit up all the time. Anything that
>>> doesn't could then be assumed to be potentially hostile and intercepted or
>>> avoided..
>>
>>Well, because it does (but not exactly).  That's what a transponder* is for.
>
> Sure - I realise how the transponder works (but thanks for the explaination
> anyway). The question popped into my head when driving home at night,
> looking at the distance that I could see with my lights, and the distance
> at which I could see other vehicles... I was wondering if there was any use
> in a Traveller setting  for this.

Well, you see, that's the "trick" with transponders. They see your
radar pulse (or traffic control's) and respond by "echoing" it along
with a "piggyback" of their ID/altitude (in current models).

So you get the effect of someone flicking on their "headlights" when
they see your "headlights" sweep across them. 

I expect that in the Traveller universe, STC(Space Traffic Control)
will be doing something like we see in C.J. Cherryh's Chanur series.
That is, broadcasting a "display" of the system as they see it,
including ship locations and types. 

Since they'll have *much* better radar than you do, this will be
*better* than what you'll get by running your radar, except for *close*
objects/ships. 

It also provides a nice touch in wartime. Either they shut it down, or
they run it encrypted so their side can read it and the other side can't.
Another nasty trick is to "edit" the display to omit lurking warships.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 01:46:39 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: FFS2 question (fission/isotope power plants.)

In mail you write:

>
>>2.    The minimum size of a fission reactor seems to be inconsistent with
>>reality.  The Russian Topaz reactor is quite small due to the use of direct
>>conversion using thermionic diodes.
> This is true. We inherited reactor sizes from FFS1, and they're quite
> big. Possibly we should introduce low-efficiency/low-size reactors
> like Topaz...though it's a niche technology for anything above TL9.
>
>>5.    It doesn't seem possible to reproduce the thermo electric batteries
>>that are used on spacecraft such as Gallileo.  Is there any plan to add in
>>these designs?
>
> Isotope RTG's like Galileo (or Cassini) are pretty much a niche 
> technology by traveller standards - there are very few cases at high
> TL's in which they're useful. (There aren't even a whole lot of 
> cases at low TLs...) They're hard to model, too, since power
> requirements in Traveller are (historically) very high. On the whole
> I didn't think they were a big omission. If you want to include them,
> someone should look up how much Cassini's RTG weighed (including
> shielding...)

Actually, I think RTGs will be fairly widespread, though, as you note,
they'll definitely be a "niche" technology. 

They are perfect for "stationary" applications where you need a
*reliable* power source with a long life and very low (zero!)
maintenance.

Given the fact that the folks a few centuries from now don't seem to
have the *unreasonable* fears of "nuclear" whatever that are common
now, I can see them being a normal item of commerce. And they are also
a handy way to deal with nuclear wste. Seperate it and *use* it, rather
than just bury it somewhere.

So I'd expect to see them as "emergency" power on planetary and
asteroid installations (where you can use a few meters of rock as
shielding). And I'd even expect to see them as the *primary* power
source for some uses. Nav beacons for one. And some types of colonies
and mining settlements might use them, again because they don't need
fuel or maintenance.

Heck, just consider how many folks in isolated areas *now* would go for
a power source that would work regardless of the weather, need no fuel
or maintenance, and havbe a power output that drops on a smooth curve
to 50% after a number of *years* (say 40 or so). No worries about
parts. No downed lines, or busted generator. Just a concrete box a few
dozen meters from the building, with a *buried* power cable. Sure in 50
to 100 years your kids will want to swap out the unit for a new one. So
what?

And yes, there are units with shorter and longer half-lives.

But for "frontier" installations, I think they'll compete well with
fusion merely from the *maintenance* point of view. And I'd damn well
rather have an RTG supplying the power for the lights, heat and air,
even if I had the fusion unit to run the stuff that takes real power.

Of course, a lot depends on the relative *cost*, but I still think the
long life would make the RTG come out ok in many cases.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 16:03:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: THUDDD 8: Specifications

(Quoting with permission from Michael's private email to me...)

On Fri, 2 Jan 1998, Michael Koehne wrote:

> 	Times are changing ;-)

Yeah, take a nap for a millennium and suddenly you need a new
encyclopedia... :)  (Michael is comparing M:0 and M:1100 values for
the systems on my THUDDD 8 route.)

> >    	1919 Khula         B-475AAA-C  HiPop, Ind
> 	     Khula         B-475977-F  N Hi In

This strikes me as an interesting progression...massive population drop
and conversion from single world government to balkanization.  Given that
the tech continued to be state-of-the-art, I'd guess a relatively
nondisruptive, drawn-out disaster...plague, perhaps, in humans or food
crops...?

> >    	2017 Tahwer        C-769A88-8  HiPop
> 	     Tahaver       B-769978-A    Hi

Another population die-back and conversion to balkanization...what's the
connection with what happened on Khula?  Same cause, or different?

> >    	2016 Guuiish       C-736344-6  NonInd, LoPop  2 GG
> 	     Zurrian       C-463436-F  S Ni

Makes you wonder why Zurrian wasn't the original mainworld.  My guess is
that there was a particularly hostile ecosystem there, which higher tech
made manageable.

> >    	1817 Tauri         A-130899-0  NonAg, Poor
> 	     Tauri         A-130998-E    Hi Na Po De

Guess the VCTI (see THUDDD 8 specs) worked! :)

> >    	1717 Vland         B-967A44-B  Hi, Capital
> 	     Vland         A-967A9A-F  N Hi Cx
> >    	1719 Uushiish Uun  E-586466-5  Owned:1717     3 GG
> 	     Sazisi        E-586620-8    Ag Ni

One has to wonder why the starport has never been upgraded...or was it
upgraded then destroyed at some point?  Perhaps terrorism connected with
breaking away from Vland?

> 	Some of the systems changed names, most change government
> 	in the 1000 years reich (3rd empire). At 2016 they even changed
> 	their mainworld. But the main thing I wonder is how are starships
> 	build at TL0 ? The only class A starport on the route is at Tauri.

They aren't.  My ruling has always been that A ports have the prevailing
maximum tech or one less regardless of the hosting world, all in a
relatively isolated clump within and just outside the extrality fence. 
Shipbuilding capacity will be seriously limited where the 'port tech' is
far above local tech, due to parts and skill shortages, but such a port
can still build a few small vessels a year, if need be.

Such 'tech-isolated' A (and B) ports are in practical terms rated for
their fuel supply, maintenance facilities, cargo-handling capacity, and
other starship support services.  Shipbuilding is a sideline.  In some
cases there's just barely enough ship construction in progress to get a
Vilani/Newt bureaucrat team to certify it's going on, in order to nab the
coveted 'A' rating. :)  Rumor has it that some remote, underpopulated
A-starport worlds have had the same ships 'under construction' for
decades, dutifully inspected by many generations of Imperial officials
during port certification review...

Obviously, Tauri is unlikely to be building *many* ships at the time of
the VCTI;  instead, they'll be built elsewhere and sent into the region.

> 	I also wonder why Vland does'nt have an class A starport,

Me too!

>       a second
> 	problem with that route is that Guuiish does'nt have the power to
> 	feed Tauris starport with technology.

Imports of high-tech *goods* aren't the primary goal on Tauri.  Those that
are needed will be handled by the 1/5 of subsidized merchants expected to
run the loop 'backward'.  Also recall that Guuiish *is* six tech levels
higher than Tauri, and that Guuiish tech may be just the *right*
stepping-stone for Tauri's culture during the recovery process.  It's a
lot easier to train someone to maintain (and later build) an
internal-combustion engine than a CG lifter, after all. 

> 	Well its not our problem, we have just to build the ships.

Spoken like a true government contractor! :)

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 09:00:06 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: the Assassination

At 10:43 PM 1/3/98 EST, you wrote:

>     Well the Rebellion Sourcebook says that the Illelish Guard (being from
>Dulinors Domain) was stocked w/ troops loyal to him and they picked off
all >of the personal guards while Dulinor took out the Emperor, the
Empress, the
>Yerla-whatever ambassador and the Grand Princess.  To top it off, they had
>all the other guards ammunition substitued w/ dummies (or was it blanks?).

But the IISS Guard?  Simple logic has them drawing ammo from a different
supply than the Imperial Guard Regiments.  These guys are supposed to be
the final line of defence for the personage of the Emperor!  It would be a
damning condemnation of the state of the Imperial Household if security was
so lax as to allow Dulinor to learn which 12-sophont detail was to be in
the Throne room that day, along with pictures so the Illelish Guard could
pick them off.

If I were on that detail, the moment the first shot went off, my first
thought would be "the Grand Princess is in the room."  Insure the safety of
the line, since the Emperor has probably been hit already.  Six men grab
Iphengia and run like hell, while the other six die slowing down Dulinor
and his men.  Hell, spray the crowd with gunfire if necessary, the
situation has already gone to absolute shit.

Now there's an interesting alternate..  Empress Iphengia, taking the throne
as a young woman, and leading a United Imperium against the abortive Second
Illelish Revolt.

- --
+---------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net |
|        http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
+---------------------------------------------+
| "Strategy is the art of making use of time  |
|  and space.  I am less concerned about the  |
|  latter than the former.  Space we can      |
|  recover, lost time never."                 |
|         -Napoleon Bonaparte, French soldier |
+---------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 09:42:06 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Metrics aren't Intuitive?

I may be wrong, but I would have assumed the object with the most 'mass'
 not 'weight', would reach the ground faster? Aren't mass and weight
different though similiar?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 11:20:28 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: 101 Lessons and 101 Sports

Andy has pointed out that I wasn't very clear about the status of these
books.

They are both manuscripts that I am working on.  Obviously, I am following
the CORE format, but they are not official CORE products yet (and may
never be).

Sorry for any confusion.


Now that's out of the way, I would welcome comments (and submissions).  I
think 101 Lessons has a better chance of being published, because I may
have lined up a grant to subsidize it, but 101 Sports would probably be of
more use in the average campaign.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:32:50 EST
From: DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Santa's Sleigh (a late breaking report)

In a message dated 1/8/98 23:19:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, cybernot@gte.net
writes:

<< I'm terribly sorry of the late nature of this report.  This is the bare
 bones, thumbnail sketch version of the full report.  But, as you can see
 (even from this limited report), the research was exhaustive.  Look for the
 full report of results soon (to be published by Vilani Press). >>

I'm glad you were able to find this article...it was in my local newspaper
(Las Vegas Review-Journal) on Xmas day and I thought it would make a great
giggle on the list, but someone threw away the paper before I could cut it out
and bring it home.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 98 19:19 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Starship Troopers novel (was Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2210)

In-Reply-To: <l03110704b0db93b196e6@[194.119.133.88]>

SD,

> I have in my hands a copy of the original work by RAH with a new cover
> showing a scene from the film published by ACE in the US, isbn
> 0-441-78359-9, dated May 97 inside the cover.
>  
> When I received it I was a little concerned that it was a movie
> novelisation, not the original, but it is the original.

Apparently there's a graphic novel version of the film available.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:56:21 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: Re: Droyne as PC's? 

Please, call me Shawn.

I wish I could give you the info, but like I said, I let a friend of mine
borrow my CT books... I've been trying to get them back for over a year
now... I think they may be lost forever. The book went into all the details
of creating a droyne, including the coyne ceremonies. If I ever get the
books back, or I manage to replace them, I'll let you know.


>Mr. Electric Stitch or anyone have how to make a Droyne Pc?
>Anything that could be used for T4 in a format like the K'kree
>post?

>Please!

>Thanks

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2215
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 10 1998     Volume 1997 : Number 2216



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Question for Marc
Re:Space Combat System
Re: Droyne Beds and Toilets
Re: GURPS Traveller -- Metrics Intuititive?!
Re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design
Re: Crew accomodations
Re: Pacific War and Terran Confed
Re: Who Really Started The FIW?
Re: Metrics aren't Intuitive
Re: Addaxur
Re: the Assassination
Re: Traveller to 2300Ad
Travlist:  need help on a series of artwork
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2173
Re: Starship Troopers
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2200
Re: Pacific war & the Terran Confed
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2200

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:54:15 +0000
From: "Will" <panzer@mail.sisna.com>
Subject: Re: Question for Marc

> > I would like to put the entire Traveller previous to T4 on CD Rom. There are
> > some people working on the preliminaries to that project, evaluating
> > practicalities and such.
> > 
> 
> Marc, if you do so, I WILL buy this.  Would the CDROM include ALL CT
> material?  i.e. books, supplements, alien modules, dragon articles?
> 

Dam Skippy, I would buy a copy
 
The Official Firebase Games Web Site
http://www.sisna.com/users/panzer/
Sister Site
Cicero's Lair
http://freespace.virgin.net/em.bis/mark.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:41:35 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re:Space Combat System

>> It is supposed to be similar to Full Thrust (which I've never played), and
>> is nicely done.
>> Overall I am very impressed.  The game is fast, simple, and quick to
>> learn.  Hopefully T4.1 will be as good.
>Here is the Full Thrust to Traveller rules for owners of FT
>
>FIFTH FRONTIER THRUST:
>A FULL THRUST CONVERSION FOR STARSHIP COMBAT
>IN THE UNIVERSE OF MARC MILLER'S TRAVELLER

[snip]

>Spinal Mount Particle Accelerator:  Fires a 1" wide particle beam out the
>front centerline of
>the ship in a straight line.  Requires 1 turn of charging between firings.
>There are two sizes
>available: light and heavy.  Ships may have only one spinal weapon.
>Does damage by range as follows:
>                                Heavy:  Mass 10  Cost 25
>Range           0-3             4-12            13-24           25-36
>37-48
>                5d6             4d6             3d6             2d6
>1d6
>                                Light:  Mass 5  Cost 12
>Range           0-2             3-6             7-12            13-24
>25-36
>                5d6             4d6             3d6             2d6
>1d6
>Damage rolled is equal to the number on the dice.  Subtract 1 per level of
>armor encountered
>(all dice do a minimum of one damage).

I was very interested in this conversion until I found out that a 60k ton
Frontier Cruiser (Azhanti High Lightning) had the same Spinal Mount as a
500kton Dreadnought (Tigress).

This is a bit of a problem.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 18:33:02 -0500 (EST)
From: John H Bogan <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: Droyne Beds and Toilets

I didn't get this back, so I'm not sure it actually went out:

>Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 23:15:40
>To: traveller@MPGN.COM
>From: John H Bogan <jbogan@pipeline.com>
>Subject: Re: Droyne Beds and Toilets
>Cc: traveller@MPGN.COM
>
>At 10:33 PM 1/2/98 +0100, Volker A. Greimann replied to someone who wrote:
>>> >I sort of ran into this problem in the adventure I'm currently writing
>>> >for my party.  It is an Ancient research complex.  What would 
>>> >droyne-like toilets look like?  I've finally settled on round 
>>> >hollow stools with a small support for the lower back.  
>>> >Each would be set a bit away from the walls because
>>> >of the wings.
>
>They might use some variation of a squat toilet -- I've
>seen depictions of these things in some Japanese manga.
>Basically, it's a ceramic latrine, i.e., a little trench
>in the ground you squat over and do your business.
>The artificial version is hooked up to plumbing
>that flushes it clean, same as a sit-toilet.
>
>
>>> >Droyne beds, on the other hand, are more confusing.  I've settled on a
>>> >perch that runs around the perimeter of the room and is set 1 to 
>>> >1.5 meters off the floor, in the barracks for the warriors 
>>> >the perch is higher then in the barracks for the other types.
>
>It wouldn't really be a "perch." Remember, Droyne wings are
>almost vesigal. But it would be some place they could hinch
>down and snooze (without going horizontal). I'm not too clear
>why warrior (and worker -- they're big too) perches would have
>to be higher.
>
>
>
>JB
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:08:03 -0600 (CST)
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller -- Metrics Intuititive?!

On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Phillip McGregor wrote:
> As someone old enough to have gone through school at the time Australia was
> converting from Lsd to Decimal currency and from Imperial Weights and Measures
> to Metrics I can assure you that metrics are *not* any more "intuitive" than
> Imperial measures. I think we could say that any system one is brought up with
> is *intuitive*, but I still find it easier and more meaningful to convert to
> Imperial measures when I need to know the magnitude of something.

Metric units are not necessarily more 'intuitive' than other units.  That's
not the advantage of metric units.  The advantage is that the units are all
decimal, so scaling is simply a matter of moving the decimal point.  Also,
the base units measure intrinsic properties (mass, length, time) instead
of extrinsic properties (specifically: weight) so they are more useful in
scientific calculations (more useful = simpler).

People can get used to anything but will most likely find the units they
grew up with more 'intuitive' because they are more used to them.

Bolie IV


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 98 00:41:18 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design

Sorry, my first post lost the nice ASCII lines I drew, so I'm reposting
with boxes made of ASCII-7 characters. ;->

On 01/08/98 at 04:43 PM,  "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> said:

>An excellent idea, but don't forget that different systems would probably
>react differently to damage.  Some would be put out of commission by any
>damage.  Others could sustain almost total destruction before becoming
>inoperative.

Not that I've given this more than a few cursory thoughts, but I was
considering a two track line with the top being capability and the bottom
being damage, something like...
                  
 Lidar  Rate    4       3     2       1     0    
               +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
        Damage | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
               +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
                                
Each "hit" would be marked in the damage boxes as a slash.  As the hits
accumulate the ability of the device would fall toward zero.  In *this*
case it takes 6 hits to reduce capability one point.  The number of hit
points per hit would vary.  I'd add that after the damage row is filled the
device isn't functioning, additional damage would would be shown by a
backslash in each box..fill the row a second time and the device is
*destroyed* and can't be repaired..must be replaced.

Examples of what I mean...
 
 Power  Rate               5  4  3  2    1     0   
 Plant          +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+                                  
        Damage  | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |                                  
                +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
                
 The Power Plant takes several points of damage before losing any
 capability, then loses it quickly down to a low level where it
 maintains some function for quite awhile.

 Jump   Rate                       3 0
 Drive          +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
        Damage  | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
                +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
 
                                     
 The Jump Drive is armored and shielded so it takes many hits with no
 lose of function, but once it's damaged enough to affect capability it
 loses it all at once.

As I said, this complicates things, and might not be appropriate for the
"pretzels and beer" version, but I think it *is* doable.

Eris

- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:51:40 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: Crew accomodations

>>    Let me know what you think...
>
>Anything is better than the experimental U-Boat you can see in
>the museum in Bremerhaven. Intendet for one week, and the crew
>(2 people) had to sleep in their seats. Even if I think about the
>larger one laying in the bay in front of the museum, your crew
>accomodation is luxus.

   When you consider that the crew of a spacecraft can't exactly surface and
open a hatch to get some fresh air (not healthy for a U-boat after 1943
either, but you know what I mean), I estimate the figures I came up with are
probably about as cramped as you want to go on a routine basis. 

>On a height of about 1,80 was a floor, on both sides of the floor
>had been 3 beds. The floor had about 80cm, while each bed perhaps
>70cm. So 6 people in half of a displacement ton ;-)

   And 18 if you have three shifts and use "hot bunking".  ;-)

>Just the class of ships governments with a code of A&B prefer ;-(

   Or any government desperating trying to win naval superiority with few
capital vessels to speak of, and no way to fight a coordinated surface action.

>I prefer to replace 1 crew member with 2 robots, if I'm short on
>space or have to worry about crew size.

   We know that the Terrans used TL 12 robots on their warships during the
Interstellar Wars (probably from the 8th on).  These would have probably
performed routine maintenance tasks only, replacing some low ranking
personnel who would have to have been relatively closely supervised anyway.

   By the Modern ("Imperial") Era, we are told that such functions that
could be handled by robots are performed within the "box" (the computer
systems and electronics) itself.  This explains why robots are not routinely
used on naval vessels (or merchants for that matter) in the Third Imperium.
Near sentient intelligent robots were being tested by the navy as
replacements for humans as pilots and other for other tasks, but that
testing ceased with the Rebellion.

   In the Post-Modern ("New") era, fears of Virus infestation would prohibit
the use of the kind of automated systems employed by the Third Imperium.  On
the other hand, it would also prohibit the use of robots as well (trust of
mechanical devices that can move independently being in short supply).  This
explains why New Era crews have to be so much larger.

   Your table could work for cultures outside the Third Imperium however,
including perhaps the Solomani.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 12:29:25 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: Pacific War and Terran Confed

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> wrote:
>Actually the US and Japan were very near to agreement in the peace talks,
>just neither side realised it.

Quite true.  On top of the translation problem that the Japanese had (which
prevented them from realizing how close the two sides were), the US had a
translation problem which led them to believe that the Japanese were
being deliberately difficult.

> [Confusion of attack signals at Pearl Harbor]

I know about that.  However, after the initial attacks, the strike commander
(Genda, I think, but my memory may be playing tricks on me) specifically
mentioned to Nagumo that the base facilities were not adequately destroyed,
and recommended an additional strike (aircrew, aircraft, and ordinance
were available).  Nagumo declined to execute the strike - at least IMHO
placing the failure to destroy the facilities squarely on his shoulders.

Nagumo's primary reason was that the location of the US carriers was unknown,
and he didn't want to risk his fleet to a counterstrike from them.  He was 
not critisized for this decision in Japan, although some postwar books 
(written by both sides) have been critical of this decision.

ObTraveller: Would the Vilani mindset in the early Interstellar Wars have
been similar?  Risking valuable ships (and therefore one's career) to achieve
total destruction of the enemy may not be percieved as worthwhile,
particularly when you have already achieved a significant victory simply on
the number of enemy ships damaged and destroyed.



wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "It's Science Fiction, if, presuming technical competence on the part of the
    writer, he genuinely believes it could happen."  --- John W. Campbell, Jr.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 16:30:26 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: Who Really Started The FIW?

Frank Frey (SOK) writes:

>Well, it seems as if the thread I started has evolved into a discussion of
>mid 20th century Japanese strategic policy.

   One wonders what would have happened if the Japanese had sided with the
Allies instead of the Axis in WW II.  Remember that they gained a
considerable amount of territory when they assumed control of Germay's
Pacific island colonies after the Treaty of Versailles.

   Imagine Japan in 1960 with the H-bomb, a navy as large as any other in
the world, territory that includes Korea, Manchuria, Taiwan, and a good
chunk of the western Pacific, with trade deals that give them access to
Indonesian and Arab oil, and markets in the U.S., Europe and elsewhere.

   Assuming of course they didn't lose it all in a nuclear war with the
Soviets...    

>As for Vilani aggresion, IMO there wasn't any per se. In 2096, the Croome
>Deep Space Array at Gateway Station (3.1 LY from Terra) began picking up
>radio transmission from the Barnard System. 

   According to my timeline (as in the one I established for my campaign),
the Terrans detect the prescence of the Vilani much earlier than this.  A
SETI II site in Siberia first detects Vilani transmissions in 2047.  This
fact is kept secret from the general population until after the Interstellar
Wars begin.  Knowledge of the Vilani helps to explain the sudden increases
in government spending on aerospace research and exploration worldwide after
that date.

>The US Space Force dispatched
>two Exploratory Survey Vessels, the ESV Challenger and the ESV Discovery
>to investigate.

   As a point of Traveller canon, Star Leaper I, an American vessel, is the
first ship to make contact with the Vilani.  It leaves Terra just before the
expedition to Alpha Centauri (IIRC, an ESA mission).  The Americans make
first contact with the Vilani, and then quietly return back to Earth using
the hoopla over the discovery of Prometheus as a cover.

   According to my timeline, things were done that way on purpose.  Had the
Americans left for Barnard and returned without the Prometheus mission as
cover, the public and the mass media would have much more closely
scrutinized the mission results.  As it was, a cover story was fabricated
(complete with phoney crew logs) and no one outside a few government
officials in the major powers was the wiser.

>Needless to say, the first contact with the Vilani caused
>a great deal of shock. Although the expedition made its discovery in
>August of 2096 it wasn't until almost a year later on July 2nd,2097 that
>Carolyn Chandler-Davies, President of the United States of North America
>(USNA) announced to the world that contact with another intelligent, star
>faring civilization had been made. 

   According to Traveller canon, knowledge of the results of the mission to
Barnard were kept secret for 20 years, enough time to prepare the public for
the shock of the knowledge that most of local space was claimed by landlords
many, many parsecs away, and human ones at that.

   In my timeline, the time was spent quietly preparing for war, or at least
the possibility of it.  The Terrans realized from their listening in on the
Vilani for the past 50+ years that the Vilani Empire (what they called the
'Ziru Siirka') was so vast, and had so many resources that conflict was a
very distinct possibility if the Terrans were to grow too powerful for
Vilani comfort.  Through "cultural exchanges" with the Vilani, the Terrans
were also able to find out what happened to worlds that became a
threat--they were absorbed (forget the fact that the Vilani at the local
level were in no condition to invade a high population world and were
unlikely to get approval for it from above in any event).  The perception of
threat was enough to unite the Terrans in common cause.

>The people of terra were still divided along
>nationalistic lines. In fact, there had been a pretty savage war fought
>between PanAsia and the EuroUnion over asteroid mining rights in 2088.

   I would love to see something official along those lines, and I have done
a great deal of speculation myself, but other than the EU and the United
States, no specific details were ever given about what conflicts or factions
that might exist on latter 21st century Earth, other than some vague
references to battles over Europa and some other moon IIRC.

>All agreed that it would only be a matter of time before the Vilani and
>their Ziru Siirka absorbed the Terrans and their cultures. The Group set
>forth a ten year plan that would culminate in a war between the Terrans
>and the Vilani that would serve to unify the Terrans. There was of course
>the danger that the Vilani would win but the general feeling among the
>Group was that the Vilani were going to win in the long run anyway.

   This seems unlikely since the Terrans were clearly not ready for what
followed.  While the Terrans certainly standing up for their rights (IIRC,
Barnard was actually outside Vilani space) as claimants to the system, they
in no way actually tried to stop the Vilani from mining there.   I believe
that the the original canon explanation, a simple dispute that turned ugly
and escalated out of control with no one really at fault is the best one.

   This of course is not to say that the Terrans didn't have war hawks
amongst them, or that there wasn't actually a plan to take on the Vilani
eventually.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 21:37:23 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Metrics aren't Intuitive

In mail you write:
>
>>>BTW, what does a stone equal?  Are those US pounds or Imperial?  Does a
>>
>> A Stone = 14 pounds. As far as I know US lbs and Imperial lbs were the
same.
>>
>>>pound of silver weigh the same as a pound of iron?  Don't know the
answers
>>
>> You're joking? And which falls to the earth faster? a *pound* of iron
weighs
>> one pound, as does a *pound* of feathers. That's about as old as
methuselah!
>>
>> Now, if you're specifying Pounds Avoirdupois (12 ozs rather than 16 ozs
to
>> the pound), then thats diffent.
>
>Sorry, but Avoirdupois  *is* "Imperial". 1 oz =28.35 grams, 16 oz to
>the pound.
>
>In *Troy* weight (used for precious metals), there are 12 oz to the
>pound. But the ounces are a different size! Around 35 grams as I recall.
>
>So a "pound" of iron and a "pound" of silver *don't* weigh the same if
>you are using the "default" type of pound for each!
>
>>>right off the top of your head to the last two?  Don't feel bad the only
=
>>>of
>>>those questions I could have answered off the without a reference book
wa=
>>>s
>>>the one about silver and iron.  (The answer is no for those of you who
>>>don't know.  A pound of iron weighs 7000 grains and a pound of silver
>>>weighs less.)
>>
>> 12ozs as opposed to 16ozs.
>
>As I note, different size ounces, not merely a different *number*!
>
>--
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

I'm glad to see that at least on person "got it" so I can quit beating this
drum.  The Imperial (or English) weight standard includes avoirdupois, Troy
and apothecary.  They are fundamentally different in what is weighed and
relative weights.  That is the last thing I will say on the topic.
_______________

I must be Travelling,

Richard
_______________

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 01:14:06 EST
From: Thorinn3 <Thorinn3@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Addaxur

GypsyComet <GypsyComet@aol.com> wrote:

 <As a By The Way, the home sector of the Addaxur is Tienspevnekr, which
<was done for the HIWG Sector Project several years ago, planet and
<subsector names complete (as was Zhdant Sector; Ziafrplians was never
<finished that I recall, I'll have to look).

What was the HIWG Sector Project? Is there archives available on this project?

Thanks,
Scott

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 98 22:09:48 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: the Assassination

On 01/04/98 at 09:00 AM,  "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> said:

>But the IISS Guard?  Simple logic has them drawing ammo from a different
>supply than the Imperial Guard Regiments.  These guys are supposed to be
>the final line of defence for the personage of the Emperor!  It would be a
>damning condemnation of the state of the Imperial Household if security
>was so lax as to allow Dulinor to learn which 12-sophont detail was to be
>in the Throne room that day, along with pictures so the Illelish Guard
>could pick them off.

I've always thought the same thing, but that's not how the GDW staff worked
it...the first time.  ;->

>If I were on that detail, the moment the first shot went off, my first
>thought would be "the Grand Princess is in the room."  Insure the safety
>of the line, since the Emperor has probably been hit already.  Six men
>grab Iphengia and run like hell, while the other six die slowing down
>Dulinor and his men.  Hell, spray the crowd with gunfire if necessary, the
>situation has already gone to absolute shit.

It wasn't *just* Iphengia, it was Valerian being killed by Lucan at the
same time...just too darn coincidental.  Oh well, it coulda happened that
way, shouldn't have, but coulda.

>Now there's an interesting alternate..  Empress Iphengia, taking the
>throne as a young woman, and leading a United Imperium against the
>abortive Second Illelish Revolt.

The civil war could have been played out over several years and then wound
down.  I would have liked to have seen the Imperium broken into a half
dozen large states, each a few sectors in size.  Along with the Zhodani,
Sword Worlders, Aslan and Vargr States we'd have ended up with a
multi-polar quadrant with all kinds of wonderful possibilities.  Put
Iphengia on the throne of a shrunken Imperium around Core, Norris out in
the Marches, Dulinor among the Illelish, Margie behind the veil, an
expanded Solomani presence around Sol, etc...etc.  

Imagine all the possibilities! ;->


Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 20:02:03 EST
From: RSpake2064 <RSpake2064@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller to 2300Ad

i have a question....

i am tring to merge the aliens form the Traveller Universe into my 2300Ad
game....  and i was wondering if anyone out there had any ideas where i could
start....

IE...  i need help decideing their attributes and how to introduce them with
the Terrans.....

Richard

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:07:07 EST
From: RSpake2064 <RSpake2064@aol.com>
Subject: Travlist:  need help on a series of artwork

any one out there got some ideas on what the viliani unifroms looked like
during hte interstellar wars?
any sugessions on the following:
1.  Viliani Uniforms and fashions (male and female)
2.  K'ree (what do these guys look like really?) poses that would show how
their society interacts.
3.  Vargar fashions (male and female)
4.  K'ree fashions and cermonial armour
5.  Aslan military uniforms
6.  Zhodani unifroms and fashions (dose every one were the rags on their heads
or what?)
7.  a pose idea for the Hiver...

and if any one has a pic of them...  i could use a picture of the K'ree.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:47:14 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2173

In a message dated 97-12-22 12:21:32 EST, you write:

<< Is there any possibility that IG had 'aquired' the GDW people responsible
 for the Traveler (sic) project while it was in GDW's inventory?
 
 Scott Spieker
 scspieker@ncweb.com >>

Aside from Tim Brown, I don't think any ex-GDW person is employed full time by
IG. 

Loren Wiseman
     GDW Emeritus, and 
      one of "the GDW people responsible for the Traveler (sic) project"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:14:15 -0600
From: "John D. Muncy" <jmuncy@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Starship Troopers

> 
> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:45:52 +0000
> From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
> Subject: Re: Starship Troopers
> 
> If you want to know what the great one really meant.. Read the Book..
> 
Deffinitely-excellent story with a good political background!
>
> BTW That book was want started my traveller career 17 years ago.
> 
> (wow. Must be getting old)
> 
I can relate to that-I remember when the "little black books" were on the
shelves,
in droves!
I think that I'll go have my milk and prunes now...

Best Regards,
John Muncy

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:05:57 -0600
From: "John D. Muncy" <jmuncy@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2200

> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 98 20:26 GMT0
> From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
> Subject: Starship Troopers
> 
> Went to see it yesterday. 
> Bloody hell!
> That must be the most violent/gory film I've ever seen! How the hell 
> that got through with only a 15 certificate I'll never know.
> Do the military's tactics make the Charge of the Light Brigade look 
> like a carefully thought-out surgical strike? Absolutely.
> Is it a Nazi recruiting film? No, it's pretty obvious we're not 
> supposed to approve of the Fascist society.
> Is it pro-war? Definitely not. War is hell.
> Is it made in the style of a WW2 war movie with nice touches of black 
> humour and some of the best FX you've ever seen? Yup.
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
>  "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"
> 
> ------------------------------

Yep, that pretty well sums it up! Proof that movie directors do hallucinogenics.
(Of course, Verhoven is the man who did "Show Girls", IIRC, thus, I rest my
case).

"Wha' tactics, we don' need nuh stink'in tac'tics!".

Though, the black humor was deffinitely some of the best highlights of the
film, and the FX 
were impressive, to say the least. Overall, I enjoyed the movie for what it
was(?)-entertaining.
(Gawd-it hurt me to say that!)

Well, I'll be re-reading Heinlein's version soon, and then I'll be cleansed
of Verhoven's sacrilege

Best Regards,
John Muncy

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 03:15:47 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Pacific war & the Terran Confed

In mail you write:

> The failure to destroy the facilities in Pearl Harbor had two primary
> effects on the conduct of the war.  Since submarine facilities at Pearl
> escaped destruction, war patrols against Japan by the US fleet subs
> (arguably the best subs in the war, on any side) could begin immediately+.
> The second was that the repair yards at Pearl were back in operation
> almost immediately.  Had those repair facilities been destroyed, at least
> one of the US carriers that participated in Midway would not have been
> present.
>
> + Unfortunately, the US subs were equipped with (arguably) the worst
>   torpedo in the war.  In addition to the magnetic exploder problems that
>   it shared with the German torpedo, the US model also had guidance and
>   depth-keeping problems.  This means that this advantage was mostly wasted.

You forgot the problem with the impact detonators not working on "head
on" impacts. It took at least a year (maybe two?) to convince Naval
Ordinance that the torpedos were at fault.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:05:57 -0600
From: "John D. Muncy" <jmuncy@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2200

> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 98 20:26 GMT0
> From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
> Subject: Starship Troopers
> 
> Went to see it yesterday. 
> Bloody hell!
> That must be the most violent/gory film I've ever seen! How the hell 
> that got through with only a 15 certificate I'll never know.
> Do the military's tactics make the Charge of the Light Brigade look 
> like a carefully thought-out surgical strike? Absolutely.
> Is it a Nazi recruiting film? No, it's pretty obvious we're not 
> supposed to approve of the Fascist society.
> Is it pro-war? Definitely not. War is hell.
> Is it made in the style of a WW2 war movie with nice touches of black 
> humour and some of the best FX you've ever seen? Yup.
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
>  "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"
> 
> ------------------------------
Yep, that pretty well sums it up! Proof that movie directors do
hallucinogenics.
(Of course, Verhoven is the man who did "Show Girls", IIRC, thus, I rest my
case).

"Wha' tactics, we don' need nuh stink'in tac'tics!".

Though, the black humor was deffinitely some of the best highlights of the
film, and the FX 
were impressive, to say the least. Overall, I enjoyed the movie for what it
was(?)-entertaining.
(Gawd-it hurt me to say that!)

Well, I'll be re-reading Heinlein's version soon, and then I'll be cleansed
of Verhoven's sacrilege

Best Regards,
John Muncy

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2216
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 10 1998     Volume 1997 : Number 2217



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Santa's Sleigh (a late breaking report)
Re: New Traveller Page
Re: Killer Bee Class Light Fighter
Re: Coronation- done right.
Wine Weight
Re: Travlist:  need help on a series of artwork
Re: Who Really Started The FIW?
Re: the Assassination
Re: GURPS Traveller -- Metrics Intuitive?!
Re: Metrics aren't Intuitive?
Re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design
THUDDD Impact on Sylean Ecology
Re: Travlist:  need help on a series of artwork
Re: Jumping away from pirates
4% city
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2204
Re: Feedback
Re: Metrics aren't Intuitive?
Re: Mayday !?!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 07:28:37 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Santa's Sleigh (a late breaking report)

From: DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com>
Date: Saturday, January 10, 1998 3:49 AM


>I'm glad you were able to find this article...it was in my local newspaper
>(Las Vegas Review-Journal) on Xmas day and I thought it would make >a great
giggle on the list, but someone threw away the paper before I
>could cut it out and bring it home.

I got from a friend who...
got it from a friend who..
etc.
It's kinda nice to know the source.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 09:15:56 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: New Traveller Page

At 07:31 AM 1/6/98, you wrote:
>I've just added my page to the Traveller webring.
>
>It's located at http://www.inrete.it/games/traveller/trav.html
>
>Please visit and send me some feedback.

Nice work!  Well put together and nicely organized.  One suggestion:  just
grab the Web Ring graphic from some where and put it directly on the page..
that thing never loads correctly otherwise.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 09:19:35 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Killer Bee Class Light Fighter

At 07:09 AM 1/6/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I have been interested in developing a 10 dton light fighter for some
>time. This is what I tinkered together. I would be interested in any
>comments you have for improvements. Thanks to Andrew Akins for
>developing the FFS2 spreadsheet (vsn. 1.6) that I used for this design.
>
>I put together two versions. The basic single seat version and the two
>seat Killer Bee Commander version. Stats for the Commander version,
>where they are different, are in parenthesis after the basic models
>stats.


Nice design.  One question: since I assume that the command varient will be
used to control squadrons of these ships, wouldn't a radio and shorter
range lascoms be more useful?
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 14:20:06 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Coronation- done right.

"Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> wrote:


>1.  The weapons ranges on the Coronation are in 300,000km increments.
>2.  I was attempting to reproduce the oft-mentioned 90kton Battleship.  I
>feel I succeeded.
>3.  FFS2 allows more detail from the design.  I included space for
>armories, a medium security brig, several crew gymnasiums, drop capsule
>facilities, mess halls, etc.  This takes up space but is more realistic.
>
>When finished, I had about 200 *liters* of space left and a power overage a
>few hundred Watts.  This design is tight.

Moreover - Imperial Squadrons states "Coronations are found at the heart of
Imperial Battle Squadrons. Operating in teams of two, with supporting
cruisers and destroyers....  ....powerful as these ships are, a battleship
caught without support is considered an easy kill."

So you are only likely to see a Coronation within the context of a full
squadron - hopefully there won't be any Prince of Wales and Repulse type
operations with these ships.

Additionally, I took M0 to imply that the Imperium had few real enemies
capable of meeting their might directly.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 19:13:17 +-1100
From: Scott Levy <becubed@connexus.apana.org.au>
Subject: Wine Weight

Richard A. Flores asked
>Does anyone know how much wine actually weighs?

I can't tell you exactly but it must be pretty heavy as I have real trouble walking if I try and carry one 750ml bottle internally.
%^)

Scott

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 07:57:58 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Travlist:  need help on a series of artwork

R. Spake wrote:
>any one out there got some ideas on what the viliani uniforms looked like
>during hte interstellar wars?
>any sugessions on the following:
>1.  Viliani Uniforms and fashions (male and female)
>2.  K'ree (what do these guys look like really?) poses that would show how
>their society interacts.


I kinda got he impression that they look like the Pierson's Puppeteers
(created by Larry Niven).  As for poses, go to any barnyard and look at the
cows for inspirations.  :-)  Those would be the city K'ree.  For your more
independant/rural types, a good source would be wild ruminants like the
bison (America buffalo, if there are any still wild).


>3.  Vargar fashions (male and female)
>4.  K'ree fashions and cermonial armour
>5.  Aslan military uniforms
>6.  Zhodani uniforms and fashions (does everyone wear the rags on their
heads
>or what?)
>7.  a pose idea for the Hiver...
>
>and if any one has a pic of them...  i could use a picture of the K'ree.

o  o
 \_/
(__)
 | |  ||

Here's a stick figure "drawing."  If you want to see what some real artists
think a Puppeteer looks like visit their home page (yes they have a
homepage)...
http://members.aol.com/Nessus/puppet.htm
It has all kinda cool/neato stuff including links and a Larry Niven Web
Ring.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:47:05 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Who Really Started The FIW?

Harold,
Without it sounding like a smart as*ed question, where does this info come
from? Is it part of the Rats and Cats book? Alien 6 Solomani does not make
any mention of hiding the Vilani presence for 20 years, nor does it imply
that the Prometheus exploration occured concurrently with the Barnard
mission, in fact it states that Barnard was chosen instead of Alpha Centuri.
It did return early and somewhat secretly to inform the UN of the Vilani
presence. Following that report (again according to AM 6) "...joint UN
expeditions were quickly launched - to meet and deal with the Vilani on
Barnard and later on the Vilani-settled worlds of Nusku and Gashidda, and to
explore the as yet unsettled worlds of Alpha Centauri. A quick effort was
also made to settle Barnard even as Vilani prospectors were working that
world."

If all of this was later expanded on or changed by "Rats and Cats" (a book I
regretfuly do not have) please let me know. It'll mean modifying some of the
early history of my own campagn setting,

Thanks
Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: Harold D. Hale <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Saturday, January 10, 1998 6:22 AM
Subject: Re: Who Really Started The FIW?

<info snipage occurs at this point>


>   As a point of Traveller canon, Star Leaper I, an American vessel, is the
>first ship to make contact with the Vilani.  It leaves Terra just before
the
>expedition to Alpha Centauri (IIRC, an ESA mission).  The Americans make
>first contact with the Vilani, and then quietly return back to Earth using
>the hoopla over the discovery of Prometheus as a cover.
>
<with more occuring here>

>   According to Traveller canon, knowledge of the results of the mission to
>Barnard were kept secret for 20 years, enough time to prepare the public
for
>the shock of the knowledge that most of local space was claimed by
landlords
>many, many parsecs away, and human ones at that.
>
>Regards,
>
>Harold
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 22:31:34 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: the Assassination

In mail you write:

> But the IISS Guard?  Simple logic has them drawing ammo from a different
> supply than the Imperial Guard Regiments.  These guys are supposed to be
> the final line of defence for the personage of the Emperor!  It would be a
> damning condemnation of the state of the Imperial Household if security was
> so lax as to allow Dulinor to learn which 12-sophont detail was to be in
> the Throne room that day, along with pictures so the Illelish Guard could
> pick them off.
>
> If I were on that detail, the moment the first shot went off, my first
> thought would be "the Grand Princess is in the room."  Insure the safety of
> the line, since the Emperor has probably been hit already.  Six men grab
> Iphengia and run like hell, while the other six die slowing down Dulinor
> and his men.  Hell, spray the crowd with gunfire if necessary, the
> situation has already gone to absolute shit.

Actually, going by what's know of US Secret Service guard detail
routine, there will several agents assigned *exclusively* to each
member of the Imperial family on any given shift. 

Their *sole* duty is to protect *that* person. So Iphengia's guards
would grab her at the first sign of trouble. Ditto for the Guards on
the other members of the family.

This setup is so that there will always be someone who is responsible
for a given "target" and who *won't* be conflicted by having to worry
about the other targets.

Likewise, there's going to be someone (more likely *several* in crowd
like the Throne room) whose duty is to *report* the attack *before*
doing anything. That way the guard details elsewhere in the palace will
start dragging their charges to safety *then*.

This means that getting a "clean sweep" of the Emperor *and* the heirs 
requires incredible synchronization. 

Several of Clancy's "Jack Ryan" novels go into some detail about this
sort of thing. And "Patriot Games" goes into a bit about how the
British protect some sites such as the Tower of London. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 22:58:57 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller -- Metrics Intuitive?!

In mail you write:

> I guess you are right.  When dealing with anything else that requires this
> sort of thing, I always convert to metrics, then back to the original
> system.  Example, in my D&D game, the players wanted to know how much wine
> they could carry, so I remembered that a gallon is c. 4 liters and that a
> liter of most liquids weigh about 1 kg and that 1 kg = c. 2.2 lbs so, I told
> them that a gallon of wine weighs 8.5# and made them figure it from there.
>
> No, you can't carry a hogshead apiece.  However, with harness and carrying
> poles...
>
> Does anyone know how much wine actually weighs?

About the same as water.

And there's a "rule of thumb" that helps. "A pint's a pound, the world
round". That is, a pint of water weighs about a pound. 

Some useful conversion factors (these are *exact* figures, for the US
version of the "English" system):

  1 inch = 25.4 mm (legal definition)
 1 ounce = 28.35 g (legal definition)
1 gallon = 231 cubic inches (legal definition?)

These three figures cover a *lot* of things. Knowledge of the standard
rules for length, weight and volume under the American system will let
you cover almost anything.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 22:24:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Metrics aren't Intuitive?

In mail you write:

> I may be wrong, but I would have assumed the object with the most 'mass'
>  not 'weight', would reach the ground faster? Aren't mass and weight
> different though similiar?

Mass is absolute. Weight is mass times local gravity. So if two objects
have the same mass they'll have the same weight. If one has twice the
mass of the other, it'll also have twice the weight.

Of course, in zero g they both weigh nothing. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 98 00:41:18 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design

Sorry, my first post lost the nice ASCII lines I drew, so I'm reposting
with boxes made of ASCII-7 characters. ;->

On 01/08/98 at 04:43 PM,  "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> said:

>An excellent idea, but don't forget that different systems would probably
>react differently to damage.  Some would be put out of commission by any
>damage.  Others could sustain almost total destruction before becoming
>inoperative.

Not that I've given this more than a few cursory thoughts, but I was
considering a two track line with the top being capability and the bottom
being damage, something like...
                  
 Lidar  Rate    4       3     2       1     0    
               +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
        Damage | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
               +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
                                
Each "hit" would be marked in the damage boxes as a slash.  As the hits
accumulate the ability of the device would fall toward zero.  In *this*
case it takes 6 hits to reduce capability one point.  The number of hit
points per hit would vary.  I'd add that after the damage row is filled the
device isn't functioning, additional damage would would be shown by a
backslash in each box..fill the row a second time and the device is
*destroyed* and can't be repaired..must be replaced.

Examples of what I mean...
 
 Power  Rate               5  4  3  2    1     0   
 Plant          +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+                                  
        Damage  | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |                                  
                +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
                
 The Power Plant takes several points of damage before losing any
 capability, then loses it quickly down to a low level where it
 maintains some function for quite awhile.

 Jump   Rate                       3 0
 Drive          +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
        Damage  | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
                +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
 
                                     
 The Jump Drive is armored and shielded so it takes many hits with no
 lose of function, but once it's damaged enough to affect capability it
 loses it all at once.

As I said, this complicates things, and might not be appropriate for the
"pretzels and beer" version, but I think it *is* doable.

Eris

- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:24:22 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: THUDDD Impact on Sylean Ecology

FR:  Osikattalkarai
TO:  Sylea Creatures for Open-Volumetric Traffic
DT:  45/2367
RE:  Impact Specifications

Sayatful Vehicularish Researcherites for Optimizationing and
Operationalizing and Manufacturementing herewards have got.  And within
your requested research vessel came bringing it also.  You, at which's
location for "thud" will wish?  Also liquorous profusion came bringing.
From which location are the nubiles?


TO:  Osikattalkarai
FR:  Number Fifteen Xenopolitical Investigative Task Force, Sylea
DT:  45/2367
RE:  Parking

Get into a parking orbit at
<http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayosika.html> and stand by.
With your machine translator OFF.  You pinheads.


TO:  ISBA
FR:  Tunggardaya
DT:  011-0002
CC:  INI, Sylea COACC
RE:  THUDDD-8 Results

It is my great pleasure to announce the arrival of the Osikattalkarai, an
example of the starship submitted by the Sayat Concourse in response to the
RFD currently circulating.  While design philosophies between our
civilizations are somewhat divergent, it is my earnest hope that this
vessel will assist in solving the problems of development on the Vilani
Main.

Owners of livestock, small pets, and children are advised not to bring them
on tours of the facility; in fact, it may be prudent to keep them tightly
guarded while the Osikattalkarai is visiting Sylea.

Visitors are herewith invited to begin touring the facility at their
convenience.  SayVROOM have unfortunately suffered certain technical
difficulties with their translation packages and have not yet mastered
Galanglic, so I shall make myself available to answer any questions you
might have.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:16:04 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Travlist:  need help on a series of artwork

At 12:07 AM 1/10/98 EST, you wrote:
>any one out there got some ideas on what the viliani unifroms looked like
>during hte interstellar wars?
>any sugessions on the following:
>1.  Viliani Uniforms and fashions (male and female)

Traditionally, Vilani fashion features draped headdresses, and flowing
lines, similar to Bedouin or Mongolian clothing.  Higher classes/ranks wore
sleeves and mittens that covered the hands, since the upper crust had
servants to do the work for them.

I did a write up of Vilani soldiers once (pre-computer, so it's long gone),
as I recall, I put the rank on a vambrace (fore-arm guard.)

>2.  K'ree (what do these guys look like really?) poses that would show how
>their society interacts.

Think of a horse with two arms coming out of the forequarters.  That's a
vague idea, but pretty close.

>3.  Vargar fashions (male and female)

Well, Since Vargr color eye-sight is very poor, the colors tend to be
*bright* and clash.  Vargr seem to enjoy militaristic accessories, like
braid, medals, cords and the like.

>4.  K'ree fashions and cermonial armour

K'kree tend to go nude.  Their warriors wear a flanged helmet when doing
ceremonial work.  The mane is clipped according to caste: full hair for
nobles, top of head shaved for Merchants, shaved bald for the Servants.
IIRC, K'kree go in for jewelry.

>5.  Aslan military uniforms

Ornate.  Usually covered in Trokh (the male script), and probably very
customized.  I doubt that Aslan ground forces would have much of a uniform
beyond clan/family symbols.

>6.  Zhodani unifroms and fashions (dose every one were the rags on their
heads or what?)

Only nobles wear the turban.  Since Zhodani are human, anything that
humanity has done on Earth will probably have happened on Zhdant.  Except
Punk/Grunge..  I can't imagine the Tavrchedle condoning that!  We really
don't know that much about Zhodani military uniforms beyond the
oft-depicted Combat Armor, with its clam-shell helmet and scalloped breast
plate.

>7.  a pose idea for the Hiver...

A Hiver examining something would be typical.

- --
+--------------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry                 dberry@hooked.net   |
|             http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/             |
+--------------------------------------------------------+
| "In the long run luck is given only to the efficient." |
|     -Helmuth von Moltke, founder, German Imperial Army |
+--------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:00:24 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Jumping away from pirates

There are plenty of places to hide..

Gas Giants (a gotcha during wilderness refueling)
Moons (depends on how small and close).
etc..

I doubt that pirates will be all that active in a highly active 
system. I also doubt that pirates will just be after the cargo. But, 
heck, You capture _one_ stupid merchant that is shaving some money 
off by GG refueling, and even at 1/10th the ship's value, that is a 
lot of bucks, and op expenses for quite some time. We are talking a 
few Million Credits here.. Get one every six months, and you are 
rolling in the dough.

Having seen enough merchants try to shave costs now days, I really 
doubt that there would be any lack of silly GG dippers in traveller.

> Not a bad point. It's true that a merchant can't always jump away from a
> pirate; if he is surprised, he is in trouble. However, I still don't
> understand how the pirate achived the surprise in the first place. In
> space there is nowhere to hide. The best suggestion I've seen so far
> is for the pirate to linger in port until his prospective prey takes
> off and then file a flight plan that allows him to take off almost
> immidiately afterwards on the same vector. There's only two things
> wrong with that: First of all I don't believe that a ship can set down
> on a manned starport without leaving sufficient evidence behind to
> identify it afterwards. And secondly I don't see how anyone can behave
> like that without arousing deep suspicions in with prey and authorities.
> The very fact that such behaviour is the only practical way to get a
> shot at a victim will make it so very suspicious.
> 
> 
> 
>       Hans Rancke
> University of Copenhagen
>      rancke@diku.dk
> ------------
>         "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
>          events based on the individual situation."
>                                 _76 Patrons_, p. 8
> 
************************************************************************
tykoduk@sprynet.com       http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    Intuition (n): an uncanny sixth sense which tells people 
    that they are right, whether they are or not.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:54:11 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: 4% city

Anyone heard of a ship going 4% city?

If you have, can you tell me what it means?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:54:10
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2204

>The primary offensive capability of the Killer Bee is the three standard
>half ton displacement anti-ship missiles. A Master Fire Director is 
>provided to allow greater accuracy and control of the missiles. The
>short 
>range fixed laser is operated by the pilot aiming the ship at the target
>
>and firing. It is also equipped with a Master Fire Director. The
>missiles 
>can be replaced with deadfall ordinance or a variety of smaller tactical
>
>missiles.

The three det laser missiles will do well against ships without
sophisticated point defenses (eg civilians or a civilian turned pirate).

The laser just isnt big enough to hurt anything with heavier armour than
the absolute minimum. The fixed mount will make it more difficult to use as
a point defense weapon against inbound missiles as well.

You might also play with dropping the MFD and investing in more missiles -
the problem with missiles isnt hitting once they get to their 15 000 km
range, it's achieving that range in the face of enemy laser and
counter-missile fire. This means you need to saturate the target with more
missiles than they can deal with.

>
>The Killer Bee has relatively light armor for space combat which is 
>supplemented by electro static armor, doubling the effective protection
>for
>the ship. It has basic drive and neutrino masking, limited stealth in
>the
>form of an EMS absorbing hull, plus military black coatings.

Electrostatic armour is good against HEAP warheads and fusion beams, but
ineffective against PAWs and lasers. The ESA will help if the fighter is in
the atmosphere, playing against grav tanks and such, but wont do a lot in
space.

Personally, I think Mil Black hulls and EMM are not cost effective - normal
passive sensors still detect you at lightsecond ranges. But thats just a
personal view.

Congrats on the design and posting it - it's a good low-end dual-role
fighter for space and atmosphere work.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 98 17:12 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Feedback

In-Reply-To: <34AD538A.B4062D03@iname.com>

J-Man,

> > What's in it for us? The chance to officially become a part of the Traveller 
> > universe.
> > 
> > More importantly, what's in it for IG? Answer = *MONEY!* We give them money and 
> > receive 'nothing' in return, and they get the chance to pay their writers 
> > 'nothing'. The fact that this 'nothing' is actually worth quite a bit to us 
> > doesn't matter to their accountants. 
>   
> I take it you aren't really serious.  :)

I'm rarely 100% serious about anything, but that was a real suggestion. What's the 
problem?
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:16:09 -0600 (CST)
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: Re: Metrics aren't Intuitive?

On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, J-Man wrote:
> I may be wrong, but I would have assumed the object with the most 'mass'
>  not 'weight', would reach the ground faster? Aren't mass and weight
> different though similiar?

Mass is a measure of how much stuff is there.  It is used to calculate
things like kinetic energy, potential energy, inertia, etc...

Weight is a measure of how hard something is being pulled on by gravity.

An object's mass never changes.

Weight varies depending on the strength of the gravitational field.

Since the weight (force pulling on an object) and the inertia (resistance
to acceleration) are both proportional to mass, all objects fall at the
same acceleration (the mass term cancels out).

There are some non-newtonian effects that supposedly affect this, but
I'm not sure what they are and they are negligible compared to the
newtonian effects.

Bolie IV


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:18:30 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Mayday !?!

>The game uses a time scale of 1 turn = 100 min = 6000 sec, and a hex scale
>of 1 light sec = 3.0 x 10^8 m. They allow each G (=approx. 10 m/s^2) of
>accelleration to alter the future position of the ship 1 hex. However,
>going back to the old physics books, delta x = (1/2)at^2 going solely on
>accelleration. Plugging in the numbers gives delta x for 1G =1.8 x 10^8, or
>roughly half of what's needed.

The relationship between hexsize and turnlength if 1 hex of velocity change
should equal 1G is correct in Mayday. s = (1/2)at^2 is the correct physical
formula but not appliceable here as I will show. The problem has to do with
the fact that Mayday etc run over several gameturns:

Turn    Speed   Distance        s = (1/2)at^2
1       1       1               0.5
2       2       3               2
3       3       6               4.5
4       4       10              8
5       5       15              12.5
6       6       21              18
7       7       28              24.5

As the number of turns increase the relative difference between distance
travelled using Mayday scales (s = at^2) approaches the textbook formula (s
0 (1/2)at^2) and as the Mayday pieces graphically simulates the ships
velocity which should be computed with the formula v = at the scale is
correct right?


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2217
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 10 1998     Volume 1997 : Number 2218



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Question for Marc
Re: Question for Marc
Classic Traveller: sandcasters
Cylon Thinkers in T4
Re:Space Combat System
Re: Droyne Beds and Toilets
Re: Brown Dwarves
Re: QSDS
Jump Drives and GURPS
Re: Metrics aren't Intuitive?
Re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design
Re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design
Shareware registration
Sayat News Service
A Meson Cannon Design Sequence
A Linear PAW Design Sequence

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 15:34:32 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: Question for Marc

On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, J-Man wrote:
> > I would like to put the entire Traveller previous to T4 on CD Rom. There are
> > some people working on the preliminaries to that project, evaluating
> > practicalities and such.
> Marc, if you do so, I WILL buy this.  Would the CDROM include ALL CT
> material?  i.e. books, supplements, alien modules, dragon articles?

(Sorry, a "me, too" post, but I just *had* to do it.)

I would buy this immediately.

Mikko Parviainen
- -- 
Kinky: using feathers.  Perverted: using whole chickens.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 08:10:45 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Question for Marc

J-Man wrote:

> > I would like to put the entire Traveller previous to T4 on CD Rom. There are
> > some people working on the preliminaries to that project, evaluating
> > practicalities and such.
> >
>
> Marc, if you do so, I WILL buy this.  Would the CDROM include ALL CT
> material?  i.e. books, supplements, alien modules, dragon articles?

  I second that. I would buy it on sight.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:06:31 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Classic Traveller: sandcasters

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/08/98 10:06 PM

<<
From memory the Mayday! boardgame had much clearer rules on this than CT
itself. I'll see if I can find my copy (haven't used it in about 10 years
but it should still be in the cupboard somewhere) and check it out.
>>

Right, I've got Mayday in front of me now. It says:

"If sandcasting is performed, missile launch is not allowed." Hmm. Maybe
that explains how the sand is launched from a turret yet surrounds the
ship... you spin the ship while firing, which spreads the sand about but
breaks your missile locks. OK if your inertial compensators are online,
otherwise reach for the barf bag... or maybe you just lob the sand out in
the direction of the enemy, after all you know where he is and incoming
fire must come from that direction.

"Sandcasting
============
Ships equipped with sandcasters may launch clouds of obscuring crystals
(sand) which interfere with laser fire and small weapons such as missiles.
     Sand may be launched in the ordnance launch phase, provided that
missiles are not launched from the ship in that phase. The launch programme
must be running in the computer for the sand to be launched.
     Mark the present position of the launching ship with a blank white
counter. For as long as the ship does not change course, the counter
remains in place, indicating that a cloud of sand surrounds the ship.
     Effects: Sand hinders laser fire. Incoming laser fire is subject to a
DM of -3, outgoing laser fire is subject to a DM -1.
     Sand affects incoming missiles slightly. Missiles receive a DM of -1on
the attack table if the target is in a sand cloud.
     Dispersal: A sand cloud remains in place remains in place for as long
as the ship doesn't change course. It dissipates when the ship changes
course.
     A ship has a store of sand equal to its tonnage (a 100 ton ship has
100 shots of sand), which is effectively unlimited in the course of a
Mayday scenario. Sand can only protect the launching ship; it cannot
protect another ship, a missile, or a small craft."

This last sentence suggests the sand cloud is pretty close to the ship. The
next to last sentence suggests that a "shot" of sand is a canister - 100 x
50 kg canisters is 5 tons. Hope this helps...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:12:14 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Cylon Thinkers in T4

All this talk of Cylons sparked an idea for my own
Traveller campaign.  These are the designs I came
up for the best know types of leaders with w/o
Fusion+.  I've been toying with the idea that
perhaps the reason they are coming is that Cleon
stole the original designs for the Fusion+ power
plants from them.

According to CSC (p 48), "Robots are never self
aware or artificially intelligent, but they can have a
depth of programming capable of thinking ahead
on multiple possibilities and the likelihood of
success in a given situation." Therefore, the
Cylons as depicted on the TV series BattleStar
Galactica actually seem to conform to the
Traveller cannon. Perhaps, this is the reason they
did so badly (relatively speaking) against the
colonial warriors (who were self aware and
capable of an occasional leap of logic).

They never exhibited any innate (internal) ability to
communicate with each other or the larger
computers on board their ships. As I recall the only
way they could communicate was via conventional
communications equipment, so there are no
internal communications links. Even the thinker
types seemed to interact with the large computers
only in their presence (face to face as it were).
There may be a religious reason for this.

If I recall correctly, the weapons they used were
also stand alone, not sub-components. I seem to
recall Colonial Warriors occasionally taking one
of their weapons from a fallen Cylon and using it
on them while running away (excuse me, I mean
"making a strategic advance to the rear").

They even became lost (with out the help of
Colonial Warriors). So, unless they had targeting
systems on-board, they didn't seem to have any
internal electronics (except for their "brains").
This would also be in keeping with the original
design concept of their creators (the True Cylons,
intelligent reptiles of some sort).

These designs were made using FF&S with the
exceptions of the propulsion systems (legs/hands
and arms) which are from CSC. I can't remember
the names used in the series. I guess someone
else will have to supply them. Unless noted
otherwise all systems are TL 12, volume is in
liters, mass is in kg and cost is in credits.

Cylon Thinker
Component                      Volume   Mass     Cost
"Hull"                                  320.00
R 7.15 "brain"                     52.00   10.40    2,600
7.7 kW TL 10+ legs           54.00    54.00   4,860
arms & hands                     10.80    10.80      972
27 kW fuel cell                    36.00    36.00      720
fuel for 24 hours               162.00  145.80      162
2.5 mm advanced
     composites armor/3       2.83    31.11         23
Totals                                317.63  257.00   9,337

Fuel usage:  6.75 liters/hour

Description: the Cylon Thinker is a partially
antropomorphized robot designed to do the
strategic thinking and mission planning for the
Cylon force it commands.

Performance: Strength 5; Dexterity 6;
Endurance 5; Intelligence 10*; Education NA;
Social Standing varies; Psi NA; top running
speed 27 m/turn (45 kph)

Agility: +0 DM to be hit

*for purposes of perception and problem solving

Improved Cylon Thinker
Component                    Volume    Mass      Cost
"Hull"                                380.00
TL 13/R 8.35 "brain"        58.00    11.60     2,900
7.7 kW TL 10+ legs         54.00    54.00     4,860
arms & hands                   10.80    10.80        972
34,760 watt fuel cell         46.35    46.35          93
fuel for 24 hours             208.32  187.49        188
     composites armor/3     3.18     34.98          20
Totals                              377.47   345.22  10,033

8.69 liters of fuel per hour
2.5 mm advanced

Description: the Improved Cylon Thinker is a
partially antropomorphized robot designed to
do the strategic thinking and mission planning
for the Cylon force it commands.

Performance: Strength 5; Dexterity 6;
Endurance 5; Intelligence 11*; Education NA;
Social Standing varies; Psi NA; top running
speed 18.4 m/turn (30.667 kph)

Agility: +0 DM to be hit

*for purposes of perception and problem solving

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 05:46:16 +0000
From: "Will" <panzer@mail.sisna.com>
Subject: Re:Space Combat System

> 
> I was very interested in this conversion until I found out that a 60k ton
> Frontier Cruiser (Azhanti High Lightning) had the same Spinal Mount as a
> 500kton Dreadnought (Tigress).
> 
> This is a bit of a problem.
> 
 I seen the problem when I first read the text, but never
emailed Steve Parsonage about it.
I only play Babylon 5 with Full Thrust.
The Full Thrust web site were I got the Traveller rules at
is http://www.uwm.edu/~cthulhu/FT/thrust.html

Just thought I would help

Will
Tucson AZ
ICQ#2739566
http://www.sisna.com/users/panzer/t4.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:15:33 -0500 (EST)
From: John H Bogan <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: Droyne Beds and Toilets

At 10:33 PM 1/2/98 +0100, Volker A. Greimann replied to someone who wrote:
>> >I sort of ran into this problem in the adventure I'm currently writing
>> >for my party.  It is an Ancient research complex.  What would 
>> >droyne-like toilets look like?  I've finally settled on round 
>> >hollow stools with a small support for the lower back.  
>> >Each would be set a bit away from the walls because
>> >of the wings.

They might use some variation of a squat toilet -- I've
seen depictions of these things in some Japanese manga.
Basically, it's a ceramic latrine, i.e., a little trench
in the ground you squat over and do your business.
The artificial version is hooked up to plumbing
that flushes it clean, same as a sit-toilet.


>> >Droyne beds, on the other hand, are more confusing.  I've settled on a
>> >perch that runs around the perimeter of the room and is set 1 to 
>> >1.5 meters off the floor, in the barracks for the warriors 
>> >the perch is higher then in the barracks for the other types.

It wouldn't really be a "perch." Remember, Droyne wings are
almost vesigal. But it would be some place they could hinch
down and snooze (without going horizontal). I'm not too clear
why warrior (and worker -- they're big too) perches would have
to be higher.



JB

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:57:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Vassilakos <jimv@e2.empirenet.com>
Subject: Re: Brown Dwarves

bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh) writes:
>Unfortunately, in spite of the discoveries, the number of brown dwarfs
>(especially at the low mass end) is poorly known. It's pretty clear that
>they're not extremely common (not thousands of BDs per star...) It's fairly
>technical, but opinion is probably divided between a flat mass function (
>brown dwarfs about as common as 0.2 - 0.1 solar mass M-dwarfs) and a mildly
>rising mass function (brown dwarfs 2-5 times as common as M-dwarfs) with a
>falling mass function (brown dwarfs ten times rarer than M-dwarfs) not
>yet excluded. Personally I believe in flat-to-falling (Macintosh et al
>1996 BAAS 189 #120.05, Macintosh et al 1998 ApJ in preparation) because
>I spent 6 years of my life looking for the damn things in the Hyades, but 
>I may be prejudiced.
>
>Overall - they should be fairly rare; about as many brown dwarfs as the
>lowest-mass M-dwarfs, I think.

Okay, I'm not too clear on the probability distribution of various
sorts of MV's, so I'm taking a very flat and guesswork approach here,
and trusting that you will correct me if you think this is off-base.

MVs vary is mass from .08 - .50 Sols (this is a guess, obviously, please
correct). BrnDrvs vary in mass from .01 - .08 Sols (this is a little
firmer). So... MVs have a range of .42 Sols vs BrnDrvs which have a
range of .07 Sols.

..07/.42 = 1/6, so there are about one-sixth as many BrnDrvs as MVs.

Fair enough?

Also, do you think it is likely for Brown Dwarves to occur in pairs
(i.e. binaries) when occuring as the hub of their own "solar" system?
I take it that MVs frequently do this, so it ought to be as common
for their lesser cousins, right?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:46:15 -0600
From: "vanya" <vanya@partyline.net>
Subject: Re: QSDS

> From: Tal Meta <talmeta@cybercomm.net>
> To: traveller@mpgn.com
> Subject: QSDS
> Date: Thursday, January 08, 1998 9:09 PM
> 
> Does anyone have a copy of this available? All of the links I've been
> able to find have expired.

Yes, me too!  I would like to place on the (hopefully, proposed) new IG
Website.

- -Vanya                                         UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ---------------- Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future
Meyers-Briggs personality type:ENTJ          | vanya@partyline.net
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." | dmoody@bridge.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Jan 98 23:25:22 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Jump Drives and GURPS

On 01/08/98 at 09:30 AM,  Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com> said:

>When working on FF&S2 for T4, Dave Golden and I took a look at a lot of
>these options, to decide which one "worked" as part of an integrated
>design system. The "jump drive as power plant" idea was out of line with
>other Traveller power sources (producing MUCH more power per ton, even
>when the high fuel consumption was worked in), while the "jump capacitors"
>from High Guard had an energy storage density several times the next-best
>items in FF&S.

>SO, we worked out an explanation for the jump drive (included in FF&S2)
>that preserves the Classic Traveller "look and feel" (that jump drives
>require both power and fuel, take a certain amount of time to prepare for
>jump, and  must execute the jump within a limited amount of time after
>initiating the  process) without requiring any of the problematic
>technologies.

You might want to know that the Jump Drive IS fusion reactor, al bit
high-throughput fusion reactor, is being pushed *really* hard on the GURPS
mailing list.  The MT/SOM vision of Jump Drives is being presented as the
classic and currently accepted technobabble.

If you, and others, don't agree, you might want to let Loren know.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 21:16:41 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Metrics aren't Intuitive?

From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Date: Friday, January 09, 1998 7:43 PM


>I may be wrong, but I would have assumed the object with the
> most 'mass' not 'weight', would reach the ground faster?
> Aren't mass and weight different though similar?


This sounds like a serious question, so, I will attempt to give you a
serious answer.

All material objects have mass.  Anything that is in a gravitational well^
will also have a weight.  On earth, the mass and the weight are the same.

Let's say that there is a bar of platinum that has a mass of exactly 1 kg
(like the ones in the Standards and Measures Offices around the world).  If
you had a ideal scale, and you were to place that platinum bar on it, you
would find that it weighed exactly 1 kg.  If you took the same scale and bar
to the moon you would find that it only weighed about 1/6th kg.  The mass
didn't change, but the gravity (and therefore the mass) did.

I believe the question which started this part of the discussion, "Which one
[a pound of silver or a pound of iron] would hit the ground first?" was
intended to be rhetorical or perhaps facetious (with me at the butt of the
joke), and completely overlooked the point about the English (or Imperial)
standard vs. the metric standard.


But, back to your question.  The fact is that neither the weight, nor the
mass have much bearing on the question.  Instead, it is the density that
matters most (assuming the same relative shape of objects).  The pound of
silver weighs less than the pound of iron, but because it has a higher
density, it would hit the ground first (if you were using an ideal timer you
could tell the difference).

Density is the mass of an object divided by its volume.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 21:11:27 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design

I always make sure that each charactor is involved in the ship to 
ship cbt, however I feel that structure is needed (especially with my 
players)...

Any totally freeform system would be usless in my mind..

> 
> I'd just like to add that from a strictly roleplaying point of view, there
> don't have to be distinct "phases" in a ship combat system. I admit to
> *almost* completely winging it, but my goal in a ship-to-ship combat
> between a PC run and a NPC run ship is for each PC to be intimately
> involved in the action. Try to make it so nothing is cut and dried, nor is
> there an ordered sequence of phases. 
> 
> Eris
> -- 
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
************************************************************************
tykoduk@sprynet.com       http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    A penny saved is ridiculous.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 21:23:40 -0800
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
Subject: Re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design

Richard A. Flores <cybernot@gte.net> wrote:

>An excellent idea, but don't forget that different systems would probably
>react differently to damage.  Some would be put out of commission by any
>damage.  Others could sustain almost total destruction before becoming
>inoperative.

The simplest way to model this is by making systems that are very fragile
only have one point of damage. Also, no one said that the "effectiveness"
scale had to be linear or the same for all systems. If you wanted to model
a bulky system that was easily knocked out, simply have the first point of
damage put it out of commision, and have all the rest be "free hits."

If you wanted to keep things even more simple than has thus far been
suggested, you could assign systems a set number of "hits," and just make
them fail when destroyed.


Schoon

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 18:30:11 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Shareware registration

Sorry to burden the list with this, but maybe it'll scare up a couple other
registrants as well.

ROB PRIOR.  METATOR, IGS, CSC: COOL WAREZ.

Email to the last address I have for you (Rob) keeps bouncing back.  Please
let me know how I can send you money.


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 18:33:28 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Sayat News Service

For those what are interested, there've been some adjustments to the Sayat
Annex webpage.  The original info that's on Freelance Traveller has been
touched up here and there and put back up on the Annex, with "Adventures in
Darkest Sayatia" and "Batteries, Pottery and Polymers" broken out for ease
of reference.  There's also another Happy Fun Ball design, as some might
have gathered from recent list postings.

Constructing a mock-up of the Pelvic-Mount Plasma Projector proved to be
well beyond my negligible technical skills.  I'm _not_ good with my hands
:|   The Sayat Barbie is getting underway, however; I'll try to get
pictures up on the webpage if she's presentable.  I'll even do a
RoboReindeer doll if I can.

But no Jet Bong!  I swear!  That would encourage drug abuse among the
youthful converts to T4/MMT!

Vaguely in the works: a short essay on why the Sayat have the draft but no
Starship Troopers (per se), and a sketch of their language's inflectional
morphology.

If anyone sees my life -- please shoot to kill.

Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 98 16:30:53 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: A Meson Cannon Design Sequence

Similar to the PAW sequence I posted earlier, here is a design sequence for
Meson Cannon.

      Meson Cannon Systems for FFS2

1.  Choose Tunnel Length (L)

2.  Choose Discharge Energy (DE) 

3.  Effective Tunnel Len:        Table 132: Meson Tunnel Modifiers 
                                   TL  LenMult  VolMult  MassMult
     Leff = L * LenMult            ==============================
                                   11    0.8     0.020     1.00 4.  Tunnel
Volume (V)              12    1.0     0.010     0.75
                                   13    1.0     0.010     0.75
     V = L * DE * VolMult          14    1.2     0.005     0.60
                                   15    1.2     0.005     0.60 5.  Tunnel
Area (A)                16    1.4     0.005     0.50
                                   17    1.4     0.005     0.50
     A = V / L                     18    1.5     0.005     0.40
                                   19    1.5     0.005     0.40 6.  Tunnel
Mass                    20    1.6     0.002     0.30
                                   21    1.6     0.002     0.30
     Mass = V * MassMult           22    1.8     0.002     0.20
                                   23    1.8     0.002     0.20 7.  Tunnel
Cost                    24    2.0     0.001     0.10

    Cost = MCr0.1 * V                                
                               
8.  Effective Range:  Reff = Leff * 1000km
                              
9.  Calculate Maximum Damage Value:   DVmax = (DE^.5) * 5


10. Short Range (SR):                  Table 181 (Abbreviated)
                                                  Range in km 
     Choose Beam Pointer from Table 181                  0.5  
                                                         5     11. Choose
Range Bands for combat from                  50    
        Table 126 (or other)                           500    
                                                     5,000    
                                                    50,000
          Table 126                                500,000
 DM Name            Distance                                                       

 ==============================   
  0 Contact             0 - 3 m   
  1 Very Short          4 - 15 m  
  2 Short              16 - 45 m  
  3 Medium             46 - 150 m 
  4 Long              151 - 450 m 
  5 Very Long         451 - 1500m 
  6 Distant               5 km    
  7 Very Distant         50 km    
  8 Regional            500 km    
  9 Continental       5,000 km    
 10 Planetary        50,000 km    
 11 Far Orbit       500,000 km    
 12 Interplanetary        1 AU    
 13 Outsystem            10 AU    
 14 Oort                100 AU    

12. Calculate Damage Values at all ranges 

    a. DV at all ranges out to Reff is:  DV = DVmax

    b. DV at ranges beyond Reff is:  DV = 5*(DE/(Range/Reff)^2)^0.5

        1.  Intensity = DE / (Range/Reff)^2, round to nearest .5 before
                                             dividing DE
        2.  DV = 5 * Intensity^.5
    
13. Input Energy Per Shot = DE * 5

14. Choose Rate of Fire, max = 3 per minute

15. Power Required = ROF * Input Energy / Length of turn (in min)

16. Crew Required = 0.01 * Tunnel Volume * Computer Modifer (CM)



Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 98 15:55:28 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: A Linear PAW Design Sequence

I've always had trouble understanding and using the design sequences as
they are laid out in the FFS books.  Maybe it's just me. ;->

Anyway, I've been trying to make some of the sequences easier for me to
follow.  Last week I posted a draft for discussion, and this is the
revision based on that discussion.  What follows is a PAW design sequence
for FFS2 in a format that I can work with. 

  Linear Partical Accelerator Weapon (PAW) Systems for FFS2

1.  Choose Tunnel Length (L)

2.  Choose Tunnel Diameter (D), max = 1/8 of L

3.  Choose Discharge Energy (DE), max = L^2Mj

                                        Table 129
                                   Len Mod    FAM    
4.  Tunnel Area (A)             TL    LM   CPAW  NPAW  MM
                                ===========================
     A = pi*(D^2)/4              8   0.12   1     -    1.2
                                 9   0.14   1     1    1
5.  Effective Tunnel Len (Leff) 10   0.16   2     1    1
                                11   0.20   3     2    0.75
     Leff = L * LM              12   0.25   3     3    0.75
                                13   0.30   4     3    0.75
6.  Effective Focal Area (AF)   14   0.50   4     4    0.75
                                15   1.00   5     4    0.75
     CPAW AF = A * CPAW.FAM     16   1.25   5     5    0.6
                                17   1.30   5     5    0.5
     NPAW AF = A * NPAW.FAM     18   1.40   6     5    0.4
                                19   1.50   6     6    0.4
7.  Damage Modifier             20   1.60   6     6    0.3
                                21   1.70   6     6    0.3
     DM = (8 * D/L)^2           22   1.80   7     6    0.2
                                23   1.90   7     7    0.2
8.  Theoret. Eff. Range (TER)   24   2.00   7     7    0.1
                              
     TER = Leff * AF * 1000                Table 130
                                  Atmos      CPAW.RM NPAW.RM
9.  Actual Eff. Range (AER)       ==========================
                                  Vacuum (0)   0.001   1.0
     CPAW.AER = TER * CPAW.RM     Trace  (1)   0.005   1.0
                                  V.Thin (2,3) 0.01    0.1
     NPAW.AER = TER * NPAW.RM     Thin   (4,5) 0.05    0.02
                                  Stand. (6,7) 0.1     0.01
     NPAW in vaccum = TER         Dense  (8,9) 0.1     0.005
                                  Exotic (A+)  0.05    0.001

10. Short Range (SR):                  Table 181 (Abbreviated)
                                                  Range in km 
     Choose Beam Pointer from Table 181                  0.5  
                                                         5     11. Choose
Range Bands for combat from                  50    
        Table 126                                      500    
                                                     5,000    
                                                    50,000
          Table 126                                500,000
 DM Name            Distance                                                       

 ==============================   
  0 Contact             0 - 3 m   
  1 Very Short          4 - 15 m  
  2 Short              16 - 45 m  
  3 Medium             46 - 150 m 
  4 Long              151 - 450 m 
  5 Very Long         451 - 1500m 
  6 Distant               5 km    
  7 Very Distant         50 km    
  8 Regional            500 km    
  9 Continental       5,000 km    
 10 Planetary        50,000 km    
 11 Far Orbit       500,000 km    
 12 Interplanetary        1 AU    
 13 Outsystem            10 AU    
 14 Oort                100 AU    

12. Calculate Maximum Damage Value:   DVmax = 5*(DE^.5)

13. Calculate Damage Values at all ranges 

    a. DV at all ranges out to AER is:  DV = DVmax

    b. DV at ranges beyond AER is:  DV = 5*(DE/(Range/AER)^2)^0.5

        1.  Intensity = DE / (Range/AER)^2
    
        2.  DV = 5 * Intensity^.5
    
14. Tunnel Volume  = A * L

15. Tunnel Mass = (Tunnel Volume) * MM

16. Tunnel Cost:  CPAW Cost = (Tunnel Volume) * 0.09 MC

                  NPAW Cost = (Tunnel Volume) * 0.1 MC
                  
17. Input Energy Per Shot = DE * 5

18. Choose Rate of Fire

19. Modify Volume, Mass, & Cost using Table 131

    a.  Volume = Vol * FA                   Table 131
                                    ROF per minute  FA Mul
    b.  Mass = Mass * FA            ======================
                                      3 and below     x1
    c.  Cost = Cost * FA               4 - 6          x1.3
                                       7 - 12         x1.7
                                      13 - 24         x2.2

20. Power Required = ROF * Input Energy / Length of turn (in min)

21. Crew Required = 0.01 * Tunnel Volume * Computer Modifer (CM)


The only remaining question about this sequence comes from Thanasis Kinias. 
He feels that DV should be divided by 0.7, increasing it by 43%, to take
into account the changes in armor values between FFS1 and FFS2.  I'm not
sure if this is right, and haven't heard either way from Dave or Guy.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------





To sign off, send "unsubscribe" in e-mail to trav-tech-request@qrc.com.
Traveller is a trademark of FFE.  The use of any trademark or copyright in
posts to this list is not a challenge to trademark or copyright status.


- -----------------------------------------------
 -- End of reposted message
- -----------------------------------------------

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2218
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 10 1998     Volume 1997 : Number 2219



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: GURPS Traveller -- Metrics Intuitive?!
Re: Barbie's Own Particle Accelerator Rifle
FFS2 Questions: DM for PAWS & Size of a Weapon
Gas Giants (was formulas)
Coalition ships
Re: >*field mice*.
Dulinor and the plugged Emperor!
re"Space Combat System
Re: Barbie Stuff
Re: Travlist:  need help on a series of artwork
Re: Black Curtain
Re: Cylons in TNE
T4.1 Ship Combat & Design
A Meson Cannon Design Sequence
A Linear PAW Design Sequence
Re: Formulas for real

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 05:24:46 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller -- Metrics Intuitive?!

>
>Does anyone know how much wine actually weighs?
>
>

It weighs much less if you drink it first!  ;-)

G

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:26:05 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Barbie's Own Particle Accelerator Rifle

Ian wrote:

>PS Roderick, if Mattell's lawyers come knocking, it's Kenji's fault.
>
>PPS Kenji, can we convince Babes in Toyland to sell our Third Imperium
>Barbie line ???

Ask Roderick; he's the F.S. legal counsel <G>.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 98 20:52:31 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: FFS2 Questions: DM for PAWS & Size of a Weapon

Two questions...

1. Exactly how is the PAW Damage Modifier applied?  

It's not used in the design sequence, just calculated and said to affect DV
in later calculations. I'd think DV should really be calculated as:

  DV = DM * 5 * (Intensity)^.5

....but the book never actually says.

2.  On page 13 under Standard, the maximum length of a weapon is limited to
25% of the shortest dimension of the ship's hull. This applies to Fixed
Mount weapons and does *not* apply to spinal or parallel weapons...I don't
think? It certainly *could* apply to a fixed laser or PAW on a small ship,
and *really* limit it's length. 

I don't think it applies to turret and/or bay weapons either, right?  

IAC, the maximum weapon diameter isn't addressed anywhere.  Even with
spinals the width of the accelerator tube shouldn't be more than x% of the
hull's smallest dimension.  What should x be?  What do you think..50%, 60%,
75% of the hull's smallest dimension?


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 03:02:40 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Gas Giants (was formulas)

Hello Folks,
  One thought that struck me about a recent post regarding failed stars is
that perhaps the massive "giant" Jovian like planets are really stars that
failed to ignite.  Had they been able to do so, the system might have been
a binary star system rather than a solo star.  And if the situation occurs
in binary systems, then it is possible it could have been a trinary star
etc...

  Just a thought.


      Hal

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:05:44 -0500
From: Robin Cantin <rcantin@oricom.ca>
Subject: Coalition ships

Another question from the newbie...

In TNE Path of Tears sourcebook is described the entire RC fleet, but there
are several desings I'm unfamiliar with. Could someone give me at least the
tonnage of the Valor-class Corvette, the Petty-class Merchant, the Vixtrix,
the Fusilier-class destroyers and Leviathan-class assault transport?

Robin

Il y a deux genres de personnes, ceux qui font le travail et ceux qui en
prennent le crdit. Tentez d'tre dans le premier groupe, il y a moins de
comptition.
- -Indira Gandhi

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 22:10:06 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

"Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> wrote:
>Ever serve a Japanese person a cheeseburger?  I can't figure out how a
>culture that considers raw fish a delicacy can turn down a nicely aged
>cheddar.

Raw fish prepared properly is Good Food; clearly fresh, healthy, and good
for you.  Cheese is milk that's been allowed to rot; how can that possibly
compare?

Personally, I'm fond of cheeseburgers, and also like sushi.


                                        --- Derek Wildstar

wildstar@qrc.com -------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 98 17:33 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Dulinor and the plugged Emperor!

Moin Eris Reddoch,

> I've wondered the same thing.  Just *how* did Dulinor get his pistol in
> there, in the first place?  You'd think no one would be allowed into the
> audience chamber armed with a concealed weapon without big, bad armed
> guards standing all around.

	The weapon was not concealed, it was worn open. It was a cermoninal
	weapon used - a Tl:7 Magnum revolver. Think about the picture of
	the Sha of Perisa who allways had a scimitar, even when he meet
	with other politicans, its a question of protocol not of security.

> This *had* to be an IISS inside job! Dulinor was just the trigger man.

	This is of course posible - like Herrhausen who was an CIA inside job.

	But intelligence agencies prefer to leave some letter from a terrorist
	group to point in the wrong direction. Perhaps it was an IRIS inside
	job, failed the goal that both Dulinor and the complete Emperial
	household had to die, to bring Magaret on the Iridum Throne. She
	was allways the "good guy" in MT. This should make us suspicious.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 18:25:08 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re"Space Combat System

Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior) wrote:

>Has anyone else here used the space combat system from The Babylon
>Project's Earthforce Sourcebook?

Yep.

>It is supposed to be similar to Full Thrust (which I've never played), and
>is nicely done.  Counters are included with the supplement, or you can use
>miniatures.

The UK printing didn't have counters. However CE have the counters and the
(corrected) ship forms as PDFs on their website, an admirable approach to
errata - something IG could do with looking at.

>The vector movement is simple (and simultaneous).  Fighters
>and fighter screens are handled a bit more abstractly but again very
>simply.  Sensors aren't included. Firing is simple and quick.

I was impressed with it, the combat rules have been separated out, along
with the sheets and I hope to play it RSN..

>Overall I am very impressed.  The game is fast, simple, and quick to
>learn.  Hopefully T4.1 will be as good.

Something that I wholeheartedly agree with. Although if I play TBP I'll be
using T4 or T4.1 as the rules.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:26:09 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Barbie Stuff

Chris Cox wrote:

>Suz forwarded the following from Kenji Schwarz:
>>I've assumed that Barbie? and her friends (sold separately) are 1/10 human
>>height, and thus occupy 1/1000 the volume.
>Actually Barbie, along with other 11 1/2" fashion dolls and 12" poseable
>action figures, are 1/6 scale not 1/10. Sorry, but your just going to have
>to go back to the drawing board and start over 8^)

Heck's bells.  I'll get on it.  Unless someone else, someone more inventive
and clever, beats me to it... </hint>

>and from Ian Whitchurch
>>Subject: Barbie's Own Particle Accelerator Rifle
>>
>>4 cm long, 0.5 cm diameter, 500 joules output.
>
>
>4 cm long and your calling this a rifle?  The barrel on my 12" fully
>poseable Princess Leia figure's blaster is about 7 cm with a barrel length
>of about 5 cm.

I was thinking that the effective atmospheric range (6~ cm) and the 1D
damage combine to produce a lot of singed and irradiated little sophonts
out there in toyland!  (Mothers For Barbie Disarmament ?)

>I think it fairly obvious, that despite having achieve a mastery of FF&S
>designing, you all still have a lot to learn about Barbie 8^)

<self_location="FLOOR"><worm_emulation="ON"> Teach us, O master!


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:45:00 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Travlist:  need help on a series of artwork

This is a correction to my earlier posting.  I left out an s in the addresSs
below.
R. Spake wrote:
>any one out there got some ideas on what the viliani uniforms looked like
>during hte interstellar wars?
>any sugessions on the following:
>1.  Viliani Uniforms and fashions (male and female)
>2.  K'ree (what do these guys look like really?) poses that would show how
>their society interacts.

I kinda got he impression that they look like the Pierson's Puppeteers
(created by Larry Niven).  As for poses, go to any barnyard and look at the
cows for inspirations.  :-)  Those would be the city K'ree.  For your more
independant/rural types, a good source would be wild ruminants like the
bison (America buffalo, if there are any still wild).

>3.  Vargar fashions (male and female)
>4.  K'ree fashions and cermonial armour
>5.  Aslan military uniforms
>6.  Zhodani uniforms and fashions (does everyone wear the rags on their
heads
>or what?)
>7.  a pose idea for the Hiver...
>
>and if any one has a pic of them...  i could use a picture of the K'ree.

 o  o
  \_/
(__)
 | |  ||

Here's a stick figure "drawing."  If you want to see what some real artists
think a Puppeteer looks like visit their home page (yes they have a
homepage)...
http://members.aol.com/NesSsus/puppet.htm
It has all kinda cool/neato stuff including links and a Larry Niven Web
Ring.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:35:47 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Black Curtain

This is indeed the 'Black Curtain'. All ships to pass this point have
never returned. Exactly what it is is anyone's guess and only Frank, Dave
and Loren's actual knowledge. Guesses by the list so far tend to be that
it is a large Virus society centered around Core "I am Lucan of
Borg...resistance is futile...BANG.. you're dead...I didn't like the way
you looked at me." 

Alternatives have Doomslayer viruses holding Lucan alive indefinitely in
endless torture.

WhatEVER's in there is bound to be interesting.

Loren...now that JTAS is incommunicado, any chance of that you guys will
publish (say in The Traveller Chronicle) or post (yaaaay!) that TNE
wrap-up explaining all of those loose ends sometime?

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, Robin Cantin wrote:

> Hello guys.
> 
> Thanks for all those who gave me some answers to the Longbow and Wave
> mysteries.
> 
> On page 79 of the TNE big book, I see an ugly "black curtain" covering
> space from Core to beyond Empty Quarter.What's this?
> All the info I found so far (don't remeber where) describes something akin
> to a black hole or at least having an event horizon.
> 
> Robin
> 
> "J'ai compris qu'il est des hommes, peut-tre la plupart des hommes, pour
> qui il n'est pire tourment que la vrit"
> 
> - Martin Gray, Au Nom de Tous les Miens
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 22:14:34 +0000 (GMT)
From: Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Cylons in TNE

Harold D. Hale writes:

>Douglas E. Berry writes:
>
<snip>

>>Dr. Who:  Great concept, wonderful actors, stories covering everything from
>>light comedy to the deaths of major characters (who didn't cry at the end
>>credits of the final episode of Earthshock, with Adric's broken pin..) Well
>>done on a miniscule budget.
>
>   We disagree here.  Enemies (particularly arch villians) were
>cardboard cutouts.  Originial Star Trek series done on probably about
>the same amount of money and had much better special effects, and more
>believable gadgets.  The protrayal of Dr. Who depended largely on the
>person playing the part (they were definately not equal).

Sorry but the info that I have is a bit different:

The Star Trek Pilot ("The Cage") cost $630,000
(source "The Star Trek Compendium")
or $686,000 (source "Star Trek Movie Memories").

The Dr Who Pilot cost 2,143(episode 1); 4,307; 2,181 and 2,316.
Plus 4,328 for the Tardis interior sets.
(Source "The Handbook - The First Doctor")

Indeed I seem to recall calculating that, allowing for exchange rates,
the first three years of Dr Who (126 episodes) cost less than the
Star Trek pilot.

I also recall reading somewhere that the per episode cost of Battlestar
Galatica was >$1million due to the cost of the effects.

<snip>
- - --
  Philk@btinternet.com (don't blame BT for any of this, they only pay me:)
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:51:50 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: T4.1 Ship Combat & Design

CardSharks wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 97-12-19 04:50:13 EST, you write:
> 
> << I don't think that it is a basic flaw of the systems idea
>  or intents just in the form of the presentation and ease of use. >>
> 
> I agree.
> 
> The Traveller ship design system has to be
> 
> 1. Integrated with the combat system (in the sense that the combat system has
> to be understandable so people know what poarts to put in their ship).
> 
> 2. Chart based, so designers can turn to the information they need and find it
> (and understand it).
> 
> 3. Driven by a checklist, and supported by a usable, user friendly form,
> 
> 4. Supported by a reasonable format for the ship card / USP so one can
> understand what that means, and
> 
> 5. supported by examples.


Seems to me a reasonable outline.

I couple questions, to Marc and the list in general:

1. Is Wildstar still working on QSDS v2, or has this become vapourware?
;-)

2. If 1. is true, will this be considered as the new ship design system
to be included in T4.1?

3. Has anyone been using the RPSCS (Role-playing ship combat system), or
done any other work on it? (latest version I've seen is 0.9)

4. Will the RPSCS be considered as the basis of the new ship combat
system?


My hopes:

I think QSDS is an admirably quick and simple way to build a starship,
if QSDS2 is updated for compatibility with FF&S2 and the combat system;
and if easy to follow flowcharts/checklists are included, I think it
would serve quite well as the design system.

I'd hate to see yet another design system that isn't a direct decendant
of or compatible with any other previously published system.

The RPSCS seems just the ticket for a combat system. I haven't
playtested it yet, but ISTM that *role-play* being the focus (as opposed
to wargame, ala BL & BR) is a good premise for the basic rulebook.

The presentation of RPSCS could be tweaked a bit, with the addition of a
clear flowchart, checklist, turn sequence or whatever you'd like to call
it.

I *definitely* would like to keep the basis for combat being
detect-lock-fire, _please_ don't water it down to just a basic "to hit"
task roll. Don't skip the important considerations of detection with
active/passive sensors, keeping a fire control lock on target, *then* 
firing.

Combat is much more suspenseful and realistic with the additional step
of tracking the target down, evasion, sensor jamming, spoofing, worrying
about "lighting up" the active sensors, powering down equipment to
reduce signature, and all the other fun stuff. :)

Glenn Hoppe
Still pining for the ultimate complete space combat solution . . .

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 98 16:30:53 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: A Meson Cannon Design Sequence

Similar to the PAW sequence I posted earlier, here is a design sequence for
Meson Cannon.

      Meson Cannon Systems for FFS2

1.  Choose Tunnel Length (L)

2.  Choose Discharge Energy (DE) 

3.  Effective Tunnel Len:        Table 132: Meson Tunnel Modifiers 
                                   TL  LenMult  VolMult  MassMult
     Leff = L * LenMult            ==============================
                                   11    0.8     0.020     1.00 4.  Tunnel
Volume (V)              12    1.0     0.010     0.75
                                   13    1.0     0.010     0.75
     V = L * DE * VolMult          14    1.2     0.005     0.60
                                   15    1.2     0.005     0.60 5.  Tunnel
Area (A)                16    1.4     0.005     0.50
                                   17    1.4     0.005     0.50
     A = V / L                     18    1.5     0.005     0.40
                                   19    1.5     0.005     0.40 6.  Tunnel
Mass                    20    1.6     0.002     0.30
                                   21    1.6     0.002     0.30
     Mass = V * MassMult           22    1.8     0.002     0.20
                                   23    1.8     0.002     0.20 7.  Tunnel
Cost                    24    2.0     0.001     0.10

    Cost = MCr0.1 * V                                
                               
8.  Effective Range:  Reff = Leff * 1000km
                              
9.  Calculate Maximum Damage Value:   DVmax = (DE^.5) * 5


10. Short Range (SR):                  Table 181 (Abbreviated)
                                                  Range in km 
     Choose Beam Pointer from Table 181                  0.5  
                                                         5     11. Choose
Range Bands for combat from                  50    
        Table 126 (or other)                           500    
                                                     5,000    
                                                    50,000
          Table 126                                500,000
 DM Name            Distance                                                       

 ==============================   
  0 Contact             0 - 3 m   
  1 Very Short          4 - 15 m  
  2 Short              16 - 45 m  
  3 Medium             46 - 150 m 
  4 Long              151 - 450 m 
  5 Very Long         451 - 1500m 
  6 Distant               5 km    
  7 Very Distant         50 km    
  8 Regional            500 km    
  9 Continental       5,000 km    
 10 Planetary        50,000 km    
 11 Far Orbit       500,000 km    
 12 Interplanetary        1 AU    
 13 Outsystem            10 AU    
 14 Oort                100 AU    

12. Calculate Damage Values at all ranges 

    a. DV at all ranges out to Reff is:  DV = DVmax

    b. DV at ranges beyond Reff is:  DV = 5*(DE/(Range/Reff)^2)^0.5

        1.  Intensity = DE / (Range/Reff)^2, round to nearest .5 before
                                             dividing DE
        2.  DV = 5 * Intensity^.5
    
13. Input Energy Per Shot = DE * 5

14. Choose Rate of Fire, max = 3 per minute

15. Power Required = ROF * Input Energy / Length of turn (in min)

16. Crew Required = 0.01 * Tunnel Volume * Computer Modifer (CM)



Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 98 15:55:28 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: A Linear PAW Design Sequence

I've always had trouble understanding and using the design sequences as
they are laid out in the FFS books.  Maybe it's just me. ;->

Anyway, I've been trying to make some of the sequences easier for me to
follow.  Last week I posted a draft for discussion, and this is the
revision based on that discussion.  What follows is a PAW design sequence
for FFS2 in a format that I can work with. 

  Linear Partical Accelerator Weapon (PAW) Systems for FFS2

1.  Choose Tunnel Length (L)

2.  Choose Tunnel Diameter (D), max = 1/8 of L

3.  Choose Discharge Energy (DE), max = L^2Mj

                                        Table 129
                                   Len Mod    FAM    
4.  Tunnel Area (A)             TL    LM   CPAW  NPAW  MM
                                ===========================
     A = pi*(D^2)/4              8   0.12   1     -    1.2
                                 9   0.14   1     1    1
5.  Effective Tunnel Len (Leff) 10   0.16   2     1    1
                                11   0.20   3     2    0.75
     Leff = L * LM              12   0.25   3     3    0.75
                                13   0.30   4     3    0.75
6.  Effective Focal Area (AF)   14   0.50   4     4    0.75
                                15   1.00   5     4    0.75
     CPAW AF = A * CPAW.FAM     16   1.25   5     5    0.6
                                17   1.30   5     5    0.5
     NPAW AF = A * NPAW.FAM     18   1.40   6     5    0.4
                                19   1.50   6     6    0.4
7.  Damage Modifier             20   1.60   6     6    0.3
                                21   1.70   6     6    0.3
     DM = (8 * D/L)^2           22   1.80   7     6    0.2
                                23   1.90   7     7    0.2
8.  Theoret. Eff. Range (TER)   24   2.00   7     7    0.1
                              
     TER = Leff * AF * 1000                Table 130
                                  Atmos      CPAW.RM NPAW.RM
9.  Actual Eff. Range (AER)       ==========================
                                  Vacuum (0)   0.001   1.0
     CPAW.AER = TER * CPAW.RM     Trace  (1)   0.005   1.0
                                  V.Thin (2,3) 0.01    0.1
     NPAW.AER = TER * NPAW.RM     Thin   (4,5) 0.05    0.02
                                  Stand. (6,7) 0.1     0.01
     NPAW in vaccum = TER         Dense  (8,9) 0.1     0.005
                                  Exotic (A+)  0.05    0.001

10. Short Range (SR):                  Table 181 (Abbreviated)
                                                  Range in km 
     Choose Beam Pointer from Table 181                  0.5  
                                                         5     11. Choose
Range Bands for combat from                  50    
        Table 126                                      500    
                                                     5,000    
                                                    50,000
          Table 126                                500,000
 DM Name            Distance                                                       

 ==============================   
  0 Contact             0 - 3 m   
  1 Very Short          4 - 15 m  
  2 Short              16 - 45 m  
  3 Medium             46 - 150 m 
  4 Long              151 - 450 m 
  5 Very Long         451 - 1500m 
  6 Distant               5 km    
  7 Very Distant         50 km    
  8 Regional            500 km    
  9 Continental       5,000 km    
 10 Planetary        50,000 km    
 11 Far Orbit       500,000 km    
 12 Interplanetary        1 AU    
 13 Outsystem            10 AU    
 14 Oort                100 AU    

12. Calculate Maximum Damage Value:   DVmax = 5*(DE^.5)

13. Calculate Damage Values at all ranges 

    a. DV at all ranges out to AER is:  DV = DVmax

    b. DV at ranges beyond AER is:  DV = 5*(DE/(Range/AER)^2)^0.5

        1.  Intensity = DE / (Range/AER)^2
    
        2.  DV = 5 * Intensity^.5
    
14. Tunnel Volume  = A * L

15. Tunnel Mass = (Tunnel Volume) * MM

16. Tunnel Cost:  CPAW Cost = (Tunnel Volume) * 0.09 MC

                  NPAW Cost = (Tunnel Volume) * 0.1 MC
                  
17. Input Energy Per Shot = DE * 5

18. Choose Rate of Fire

19. Modify Volume, Mass, & Cost using Table 131

    a.  Volume = Vol * FA                   Table 131
                                    ROF per minute  FA Mul
    b.  Mass = Mass * FA            ======================
                                      3 and below     x1
    c.  Cost = Cost * FA               4 - 6          x1.3
                                       7 - 12         x1.7
                                      13 - 24         x2.2

20. Power Required = ROF * Input Energy / Length of turn (in min)

21. Crew Required = 0.01 * Tunnel Volume * Computer Modifer (CM)


The only remaining question about this sequence comes from Thanasis Kinias. 
He feels that DV should be divided by 0.7, increasing it by 43%, to take
into account the changes in armor values between FFS1 and FFS2.  I'm not
sure if this is right, and haven't heard either way from Dave or Guy.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------





To sign off, send "unsubscribe" in e-mail to trav-tech-request@qrc.com.
Traveller is a trademark of FFE.  The use of any trademark or copyright in
posts to this list is not a challenge to trademark or copyright status.


- -----------------------------------------------
 -- End of reposted message
- -----------------------------------------------

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:18:38 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: Formulas for real

Hello Folks,
  What follows are the formulas that I have dug out of old magazines, old
astronomy magazines, old game book resourses, or from the Self teaching
Astronomy book I bought about a year ago <grin>.
  A few people have helped me to understand things (or so I hope I
understand!), and any errors I have made, is my fault.  Also, if anyone
sees a glaring major mistake, feel free to correct me, but if you do,
stand ready to point out the reference that will permit me to check this
up <chuckle>.

Luminosity of star = (100^.2)^(4.85-absolute magnitude of star)

The original equation I was using for mass of star was take from a book
explaining that luminosity is equal to approximately (note the word
approximately <frown>) mass^3.5.  I reworked it from the point of view
that mass now equals:

Star's mass = star's luminosity^(1/3.5)

  However, recently, I came across a new set of formulas that state
Luminosity of star/luminosity of SOL = (mass of star/mass of SOL)^N where
N is equal to 

1.75*(Mass of star/mass of Sol)-.1)+3.325

  if the ratio of mass of star/mass of Sol is less than 1, otherwise, N is
equal to:

..5(2-Mass of sun/mass of SOL) + 4.4

  if the ratio of mass was greater than 1.  To use this formula, one would
have to set up a decision making routine in a program to ascertain by
"Brute" force computing, what the value for mass was.  As it turns out, if
the luminosity is greater than 1, you use the second equation, if the
luminosity is less than one, it turns out you use the first equation.
Probably, the easiest way to do this, would be to use a "do until
calculated luminosity is greater than target luminosity" in increments of
..0001 masses or so.  Eventually, the Loop will create a luminosity that is
greater than the one you are searching for, and then all you have to do is
subtract one "increment" from the final answer that dumped you out of the
loop.

Radii of stars is calculated from luminosity.  It's formula is:

Radius of star/radius of Sol = (Luminosity star/luminosity of Sol)^.5
times Temperature of Sol/Temp of star)^2

  This ended up being used in my program as:

Setellar raddii =  lum^.5 * (5800/stellar_temp)^2

  5800 is the temperature of Earth's sun.  The stellar Temperature can be
calculated by interpolation of the ranges of temperatures for different
Spectral types.  What follows are the upper Temperature limits for each
spectral type.  These temperatures are the same for each spectral type
regardless of what class the star is (ie if it is a dwarf G2 star, it will
have the same surface temperature as a Super Giant G2 star).

O = 40,000
B = 28,000
A = 10,000
F =  7,500
G =  6,000
K =  5,000
M =  3,500

  From I have been able to find, it would appear that the lowest
temperature a star can exist (surface temperature that is) at 3,000
degrees Kelvin.  Rather than write out the method for interpolation of
stellar temperatures, I will show you the "structure" for my program that
I used, and give an example of how it is done (whew!).

Let O_differential = (-40000 + 28000)/10
let B_differential = (-28000 + 10000)/10
let A_differential = (-10000 +  7500)/10
let F_differential = (- 7500 +  6000)/10
let G_differential = (- 6000 +  5000)/10
let K_differential = (- 5000 +  3500)/10
let M_differential = (- 3500 +  3000)/10

 Multiply the "decimal" portion of the star spectral class by the
differential that matches it's letter portion of the spectral lable.  Then
add this value to the "upper limit" of that class's temperature.

Thus, a G2 star, would have a differential of -100.  -100 x 2 = -200.
Additing this to the upper limit of 6000 degrees Kelvin for a G0 class, we
find that stellar temperature is 6000 + (-200) or 5800 degrees Kelvin,
which matches what Earth's expected surface temperature is.  A F4 star
then, would be -150 x 4, or -600.  Adding this to the top temperature for
an F class star, and we get 7500-600= 6900 degrees Kelvin.

  According to Terry Kepner's book PROXIMITY ZERO second edition, the
mass of the sun is equal to approximately 1.989 x 10^30 kilograms.
Unfortunately, I failed to bring my old Physics book that lists the radius
of the Sun in Kilometers (ack!).  Terry Kepner also uses the inner and out
limits of habitation equal to .75 AU * Luminosity for the inner, and 1.4
AU * luminosity for the outer limits of life sustaining habitation.  I
have come across references that state the inner and outer limits are
actually closer to .93 and 1.04!  However, it would seem that most prefer
to use the somewhat wider zone of habitability <grin>.

  Also available in Terry Kepner's book, is the theory that Binary stars
can have stable orbits up to 1/5th the separation in AU's.  Thus, if the
separation of two stars is listed as being 80 AU's, the stable orbits
would go out to 16 AU's.  Bear in mind, that if you have two stars with
eccentricities that bring the stars as close as 16 AU's but as far as 64
AU's would have an average separation of only 40 AU's.  Therefore,
calculate the max distance for stable orbits from the "closest" approach
of the stars.
  For the record, Terry's book has quite a few Near Earth stars already
listed.  He indicates their special features, and their likelyhood for
having planets and such.  He lists lifezones, Luminosity, and Stellar
Masses of each star.  For the price of approximately $20 (if I recall
correctly), it is well worth picking up.  You can find his website
location by  either looking it up at

http://www.clark.net/pub/nyrath/starmap.html

  or by using a net search for Terry Kepner or PROXIMITY ZERO.

Let's see, one last formula that I have, is how to calculate the absolute
magnitude given the apparent magnitude and the distance to the star.  This
is done by:

Absolute Magnitude = Apparent Magnitude + 5*log(distance)


  Hope this helps people with their quests for creating a program for
randomly generating stars.  

       Hal

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2219
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 11 1998      Volume 1997 : Number 2220



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Designing Turrets and Bays
Re: Who Really Started The FIW?
Re: GURPS Traveller -- Metrics Intuititive?!
Re: Gas Giants (was formulas)
Re: Droyne as PC's?
Re: Droyne Beds and Toilets
MFD's and LIDAR
Re(2): Addaxur
New Star Trek RPG
Re: Answers
CT Alien Modules for sale!
Traveller Adventure
Re: Crew accomodations
Re: Wine Weight
Public Apology
Re: Jumping away from pirates
Re: Formulas
Re: Gas Giants (Pro-piracy)
Re: Formulas
2300 AD
Torpedos et al.
Re: Jumping away from pirates

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 98 21:52:19 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Designing Turrets and Bays

The calculations in FFS2 for building Turrets and Bays is less than clear,
at least to me, so I worked out the following sequences.

Standard Dimension Turrets

 1. Socket Size in stere:
 
 2. Socket Volume = Size - (0.005 * Size^(5/3))
 
 3. Socket Diameter = (1.091 * Size)^(1/3)
 
 4. Socket Height = 1.1667 * Diameter
 
 5. Socket Mass = Size - Volume
 
 6. Socket Area = pi * Diameter^2 / 4
 
 7. Socket Power = 0.01 * Size
 
 8. Retrofitting a Turret
 
    a. Retro Volume = Normal Volume * 1.1
    
    b. Cost = Retro Volume * 0.1MCr
    
    
Standard Dimension Bays (Height & Width equal)

 1. Bay Size in stere:
 
 2. Bay Volume = Size - (0.001 * Size^(5/3))
 
 3. Bay Length:
 
 4. Bay Height = (Volume/Length)^.5
 
 5. Bay Depth = Height
 
 6. Bay Mass = Size - Volume
 
 7. Bay Area = Length * Height
 
 8. Bay Power = 0.005 * Size
 
 9. Retrofitting a Bay
 
    a. Retro Volume = Normal Volume * 1.1
    
    b. Cost = Retro Volume * 0.1MCr
      

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:27:56 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Who Really Started The FIW?

Michael D. Peters writes:

>Without it sounding like a smart as*ed question, where does this info come
>from? Is it part of the Rats and Cats book? Alien 6 Solomani does not make
>any mention of hiding the Vilani presence for 20 years, nor does it imply
>that the Prometheus exploration occured concurrently with the Barnard
>mission, in fact it states that Barnard was chosen instead of Alpha Centuri.
>It did return early and somewhat secretly to inform the UN of the Vilani
>presence.

<snip>

>If all of this was later expanded on or changed by "Rats and Cats" (a book I
>regretfuly do not have) please let me know. It'll mean modifying some of the
>early history of my own campagn setting,

   Not at all.  It was indeed expanded upon by AM6.  Naturally enough my
books are in Lexington as I type this (I'm in Dayton at the moment about
2 hours away), but I'm sure someone can quote you chapter and verse if I
don't get to it first.

   The important thing to remember is that the results of the American
expedition were kept secret for a time, and whether is was done out of
concern for the reaction of the population or whether it was done
because of some larger conspiracy is left up to the interpretation of
the referee.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 98 21:32 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller -- Metrics Intuititive?!

Moin Bolie Williams IV,

> Metric units are not necessarily more 'intuitive' than other units.  That's
> not the advantage of metric units.  The advantage is that the units are all
> decimal, so scaling is simply a matter of moving the decimal point.  Also,
> the base units measure intrinsic properties (mass, length, time) instead
> of extrinsic properties (specifically: weight) so they are more useful in
> scientific calculations (more useful = simpler).

	First of all, I'm german and germany is using metrics for a long
	time. I have'nt learned other scales in school. But there are
	occasions where other scales are more usefull.

	If I'm designing something for print, I'm thinking in points and
	inches, and not in centimeter. Somebody who tries desk top publishing
	and scales in meteric deserves shooting imho.

	In other occasions imperial scales are anachronism. E.g I have a
	motorbike, a BSA imported from england, and I enjoy driving up to
	50mph (even if german does'nt have a speed limit ;-) and I'm now
	used to think in miles when planing longer journeys.

	But unlike seamiles, land miles does'nt make any sense, its
	anachronism. Seamilies are a different thing, its easier to
	convert knots in seamiles, and seamiles in degrees than with
	using metrics. The first one is possible in brain, while the
	I would need a calculator for metrics. So as I've learned
	navigation with a sextant,compass and circle, I allways set
	GPS to miles scale when on board.

	ObTrav: I can think about low tech planets, where anytime the
	old lord dies, and a new one takes power. His first official
	act, is to define new scales for "foot", "ell" and "mile" based
	on his size.
- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:46:46 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Gas Giants (was formulas)

HAL writes:

>  One thought that struck me about a recent post regarding failed stars >is that perhaps the massive "giant" Jovian like planets are really 
>stars that failed to ignite.  Had they been able to do so, the system 
>might have been a binary star system rather than a solo star.  And if 
>the situation occurs in binary systems, then it is possible it could 
>have been a trinary star etc...

   Where or not an object "ignites" is entirely dependent upon whether
or not there is sufficent mass present.  Imagine if you will if Jupiter
had mass subtracted from it.  Take enough of its core or other elements
away and eventually Jupiter loses its ability to retain a large quantity
of hydrogen in its atmosphere as it does know.  Take enough away, and it
would lose size rather dramatically and eventually become more like the
terrestial planets (Earth, Mars, Venus, Mercury, etc.) in our system. 
Conversely if we add mass to Jupiter, it will become a brown dwarf.  Add
more and more until it goes past the 80 Juipter-mass point, and
eventually a sustained fusion reaction will happen--it is not a question
of "if the circumstances are right" it *will* happen.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 00:06:20 EST
From: DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Droyne as PC's?

In a message dated 1/10/98 3:18:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, electric-
stitch@w-link.net writes:

<< Please, call me Shawn.
 
 I wish I could give you the info, but like I said, I let a friend of mine
 borrow my CT books... I've been trying to get them back for over a year
 now... I think they may be lost forever. The book went into all the details
 of creating a droyne, including the coyne ceremonies. If I ever get the
 books back, or I manage to replace them, I'll let you know.  >>

I believe that a copy of Twilight's Peak (CT Adventure 3?)  has the chargen
for Droyne in it...I can provide photocopies if need be.

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 00:09:05 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Droyne Beds and Toilets

>It wouldn't really be a "perch." Remember, Droyne wings are
>almost vesigal. But it would be some place they could hinch
>down and snooze (without going horizontal). I'm not too clear
>why warrior (and worker -- they're big too) perches would have
>to be higher.

There is no reason other than to add color to the adventure.  I'm working on
the assumption that the wings actually do work, I don't remember seeing
anything about them being useless in either Library Data: A-N or the
MegaTraveller Library book.  In fact, the picture in the A-N book showed a
Droyne with pretty large wings.

The warriors would be higher off the ground because I'm the GM, and its just
the way of things.  I wasn't analyzing it when I did it, I just wanted the PCs
to be confused by what these things were (although, if I really wanted to
handwave, I could probably make up a half decent reason).  All of the doorways
were circular, but, again, no real reason, just liked it that way (actually, I
had just seen Full Metal Jacket again, and at the end the main character is
hunting a sniper in this burned out building, and all of the doorways were
circular and I thought it looked pretty neat).

>They might use some variation of a squat toilet -- I've
>seen depictions of these things in some Japanese manga.
>Basically, it's a ceramic latrine, i.e., a little trench
>in the ground you squat over and do your business.
>The artificial version is hooked up to plumbing
>that flushes it clean, same as a sit-toilet.

That would be just as well I guess.  I didn't think about it too long.  Just
did it and moved on.  I now like the idea of the teleporting/disintegrating
floor thingie that others have pointed out.  Could combine the two.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 00:14:32 EST
From: DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com>
Subject: MFD's and LIDAR

Is there any reasoning behind the requirement for pencil-beam Active EMS or
Radar systems only being used on a MFD (From FF&S1)???  It would seem logical
to use a LIDAR instead, since you are not going to be making the initial
detection w/ the MFD?  Does this seem out of line to anyone?

Ed Jenkins (DustyLV769@aol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 01:43:53 EST
From: GypsyComet <GypsyComet@aol.com>
Subject: Re(2): Addaxur

Thorinn3 <Thorinn3@aol.com> asks:



>GypsyComet <GypsyComet@aol.com> wrote:

>

> <As a By The Way, the home sector of the Addaxur is Tienspevnekr, which

><was done for the HIWG Sector Project several years ago, planet and

><subsector names complete (as was Zhdant Sector; Ziafrplians was never

><finished that I recall, I'll have to look).

>

>What was the HIWG Sector Project? Is there archives available on this
project?

>


  About the time MegaTraveller came out a loose organization of Traveller
fans formed to flesh out the details of the battlegrounds of the
Rebellion (ie. the entire Imperium). The sector files generated during
the development of the Classic Traveller book "Atlas of the Imperium"
were the basis for the early work. Most of the systems in the Third
Imperium's borders were eventually named, along with the subsectors.
By the time I found out about this group, the "History of the Imperium
Working Group" ("HIWG"), it had grown to nearly 200 past and present
members. Several subgroups had formed to develop extra-Imperial space,
starting from scratch or fragments in print. A good chunk of rimward
Vargr space was done, as was a fair bit of Aslan space.
 Several people were (and may still be) doing the details of Zhodani
space (my own area of interest). I know that Zhdant, Tienspevnekr, and
Yiklerzdanzh are all done to the basic sector listing or beyond (well
beyond in the case of Yiklerzdanzh), as is the upper half of Afachtiabr.
Chunks of Ziafrplians exist in some detail, though I don't think the
sector listing is completely named as yet. I recall someone was working
on Tsadra and Tsadra Davr, but I don't have any details.
 Iakr was set aside as a Referee's Reserve by GDW, so there will be
nothing (else) official done there if IG holds to the Reserve. I may
post MY version of Iakr at some point...

  HIWG continues to operate as a writer's club for Traveller, though
my own involvement is rather limited these days. A bad case of the real
world...
  I don't know if all of the work is collected in one coherent set
on the net. The upper half of Afachtiabr (aka Far Frontiers) was
published in Traveller Chronicle two-three years ago, and one subsector
of Ziafrplians appeared in HIWGs internal newsletter. I don't believe
anything else from Zhodani space has appeared in widespread print...

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 02:05:32 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: New Star Trek RPG

For those of you who don't monitor the newsgroups, the competition for
sci-fi RPG money just got more complicated:

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted last week to the Last Unicorn Games mailing list by LUG
spokesperson Christian Moore (monomyth@aol.com):

Also, for everyone's information, on Thursday of last week we signed a
multi-year deal with Paramount Pictures giving us the right to produce
roleplaying games, accessories, miniatures, and LARP books based on Star
Trek: The Next Generation, ST: DS9, ST: TOS and ST: Voyager. We're very
excited about these developments. Last Unicorn will be re-locating to
the Los Angeles area in January. We'll post new contact info as soon as
we have it ourselves. :)

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:09:31 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Answers

Thius was dated Dec 23, but just got here?

In mail you write:

>> Besides, my disintegration chamber is busy dealing with door-to-door
>> preachers. 
>
> Ooooh! Good one! And I thought I was on to something by handing the 
> phone to my toddler when the solicitors get pushy... <G>
>
> Suz 

No, no. That's why we have *modems*. <eg>

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:26:22 -0800
From: Joel Pratt <jpratt@ucla.edu>
Subject: CT Alien Modules for sale!

Traveller Alien Modules for sale.

I'm selling some of the classic Alien Modules for GDW's Traveller, namely:

Alien Module 1 - Aslan
Alien Module 3 - Vargr
Alien Module 4 - Zhodani
Alien Module 7 - Hivers
Alien Module 8 - Darrians

All are in excellent to near-mint condition.

They will be sold in a loose auction format. Email me your bid (on
individual items - I am not selling them as a lot). If someone outbids you,
I'll let you know and give you a chance to beat them. Bids will include
shipping. Allen Shock is expressly forbidden from bidding on these items. I
expect the auction to wrap up around Sunday, January 18, unless bidding for
some item gets hot and heavy. Each item has a $15 minimum bid.

If you are interested, please email me your bid at: jpratt@ucla.edu


- --Joel Pratt
jpratt@ucla.edu
http://www.seas.ucla.edu/~jpratt

"Bill Clinton does not have the moral fiber to be a mass murderer."
 -- Nobel Peace Prize recipient Dr. Henry Kissinger, Spring 1997

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:31:44 +0800
From: "Benjamin Barton" <aramis3d@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Traveller Adventure

I have and old Red Book labeled "The Traveller Adventure" Vol2
.....GDW202....A4 size
just wondering if there was ever a Vol 1.....I have never seen it on any
list of products.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 04:04:53 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Crew accomodations

Evyn MacDude writes:

>> Small Crew Bay*    0.002         70.0            5.0       0.14
>> (sleeps 8)
>> Large Crew Bay*    0.004        140.0           10.0       0.24
>> (sleeps 16)
>>
>> * - Intended only for use on large ships which have adequate recreation
>> facilities such as gyms, lounges, multipurpose rooms, etc.  Crew bays
>> contain bunks which are stacked two high.
>
> Two high is ok, I prefer 3 high myself. Have seen 4 high in marine berths.

   True, but I was being relatively generous, allowing for the
possibility of storage lockers under the beds, etc.  Also, we're talking
bunks in a space ship not a wet navy ship, and I'm pretty sure they are
significantly differnet.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 08:32:39 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Wine Weight

Scott Levy wrote:

> Richard A. Flores asked
> >Does anyone know how much wine actually weighs?
>
> I can't tell you exactly but it must be pretty heavy as I have real trouble walking if I try and carry one 750ml bottle internally.
> %^)

Well, you could just treat it as water. So, 1 litre of wine weights 1 kilogram. Throw in a bit more for the bottle/bag/container,
though.

- --
Erwin Fritz
Unix/NT/LAN Guy
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:50:23 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Public Apology

Folks,
	Several people have suggested I owe Mr. Flores a public apology,
and I agree. My response to his "FCC Modem Tax" warning failed
miserably in its attempt to be a gentle jab, and came across
instead as a public attack and an attempt to humiliate him.

Mr. Flores,
	I apologize for the tone of my response to your email. My
sarcasm, in an attempt to stop the hoax dead in its tracks, went
way over the line, and was uncalled for. I should have simply
pointed out that the information was a hoax, and left it at that.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj
- --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he
establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 09:09:17 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Jumping away from pirates

In mail you write:

>This is just *too* cool sounding to *not* incorporate into the game
>mechanics. We'll have to work out the details, but I think it'd cover a
>*lot* of "holes".
>
>E1 = energy level where you *might* be able to jump, but it's still
>     possible to abort.
>
>E2 = energy level where you *must* continue onto a jump or else the
>     drive and storage units will fail catastrophically.
>
>E3 = energy level level required for a safe jump.
>
>Below E1, jump is not possible. Between E1 and E2 misjump is virtually
>certain (treat like jumping inside 10 diameters). Between E2 and E3
>misjump is likely (treat like a jump inside of 100 diameters, but
>outside 10 diameters). At E3 jump is normal.
>
>What do you think guys?


Well, Shadow,  I think you've got something there.  Is there a definition of
these energy levels or do we need to work on it?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:52:13 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <edf@atlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Formulas

Good luck, I'm writing my own little program as well.  Nothing special, but
I'll be able to use it as a gaming tool.  Generating systems by hand for 
a new universe can be a real pain.

Eric

- -----Original Message-----
From: hal@buffnet.net <hal@buffnet.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: Formulas


>Hello Eric,
>  The formula from OTHER SUNS, from what I understand, takes into account
>the escape velocity of the planet in question, and takes into account the
>temperature of the planet in question with respect to the "hydrogen" gas
>escaping.  How "accurate" it is, I don't know, but when cross checking it
>against TRAVELLER 2300 AD, it does tally well with what GDW says should be
>a gas giant, and what the calculated value says it should be.  <Grin>
>  That is one reason why I am looking to use it in the program I wanna
>write...
>
>     Hal
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 00:17:48 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Gas Giants (Pro-piracy)

Hello,
>I doubt that pirates will be all that active in a highly active 
>system. I also doubt that pirates will just be after the cargo. But, 
>heck, You capture _one_ stupid merchant that is shaving some money 
>off by GG refueling, and even at 1/10th the ship's value, that is a 
>lot of bucks, and op expenses for quite some time. We are talking a 
>few Million Credits here.. Get one every six months, and you are 
>rolling in the dough.

  I agree on all points except the last - cash out and go for something
relatively safe - smuggling, fraud, backing up without broadcasting the
correct rumbling/beeping soundtrack, etc.

>Having seen enough merchants try to shave costs now days, I really 
>doubt that there would be any lack of silly GG dippers in traveller.

  Skimming is only cheaper if there are no finance payments to be made,
and if the financial opportunity cost is fairly low; i.e., no extra cargo
runs per quarter with the time required for the side-trip.

        Yours truly,
                Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:48:11 -0500
From: "Eric Freitas" <edf@atlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Formulas

The equation uses the escape velocity, distance from primary, and luminosity
of the primary to determine the smallest molecular weight retained.  It
doesn't
account for gas giants that somehow are closer than they should be.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: Formulas


>In mail you write:
>
>>>  Hmmm, what else can I recall off the top of my head?  Ah yes, in
another
>>>gaming suppliment from FGU (name eludes me at this point, but it was a
>>>brown two book set) lists the ability of planets to be a Hydrogen based
>>>atmosphere as being based on the planet's mass plus distance from primary
>>>along with the primary's luminosity
>>
>> You're thinking of _Other Suns, Book 2: Starships & World Building_
>> by Neil Shapero, page 39, section 12.3.2 "Planetary Atmospheres".
>
>Gee, does it allow for things like the *close* in gas giants the
>astronomers have found?
>
>--
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:22:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Larry Hadley <lhadley@peterboro.net>
Subject: 2300 AD

On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Traveller-digest wrote:
> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:09:09 -0500 (EST)
> From: "Frank Frey (SOK)" <ffreyiii@luna.cas.usf.edu>
> 
> Has anyone out there worked out any TNE stats for the Kafers? Next to the
> Hivers and the K'Kree they are one of the finest alien races ever
> realized. Also, what has happened to 2300 ? 

  2300 AD died with GDW. One would best describe it as "in hiatus";
Tantalus has possession of the copyright but so far as expressed no desire
to do anything with it. Their still is a HUGE following on the net for
this most excellent game, however - look on my homepage for some pointers
to some sites (I'll soon be upgrading the list to be more current)

  Ahh, to have a few million bucks to play with... ;)

  I haven't tried to convert the Kafers to TNE (or any other Traveller
product) mainly b/c I'm more interested in 2300 right now.

- -- DLH                                 lhadley@peterboro.net

homepage: http://text.peterboro.net/~lhadley/index.html
bio: http://text.peterboro.net/~lhadley/Profile.html

  "Fight to fly, fly to fight, fight to win." - TOPGUN motto.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:38:08 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Torpedos et al.

Wildstar remarked:

> + Unfortunately, the US subs were equipped with (arguably) the worst
>   torpedo in the war.  In addition to the magnetic exploder problems that
>   it shared with the German torpedo, the US model also had guidance and
>   depth-keeping problems.  This means that this advantage was mostly wasted.

Worse. The torpedo in question usually didn't detonate when it hit straight
on, but would often work when it struck a glancing blow. This meant that the
least skilled skippers who managed by stubborn persistance or dumb luck to
graze a target would often be rewarded by a sinking, whereas the skilled
skippers who managed to maneuver in close and achieve good, square hits
failed. This meant that the less competent sub commanders began getting a
greater chance at promotions and their pick of the newer boats. Furthermore,
the problems with the torpedo were detected fairly early in the war, but it
was not replaced for a distressingly long time.

Ya can't make up stuff this strange. 

If I had written a novel about a fictional war, and tried to make stuff like
this up, or if I had put something equivalent to this into Traveller, it would
have been driven from this list by hoots and catcalls...

In re FIW:

> Things probably went downhill rapidly from there.

Someone noted a comment in Babylon 5 about the traditional Membari gesture of
respect: approaching with gunports open. I am reminded of the traditional Hun
gesture to open trade negotiations: riding towards the village at full gallop,
screaming and shooting arrows of friendship.

Loren Wiseman
   GDW Emeritus

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 11:30:04 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Jumping away from pirates

An excellent addition to the role playing side. You can almost feel the
tension! Some form of this will definately find it's way into my own games!

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Sunday, January 11, 1998 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: Jumping away from pirates


>In mail you write:
>
>> Hmm. Like the airplane takeoff routine, V1 being when you're going fast
>> enough to have a chance of liftoff, V2 being when you have no other
choice,
>> and "rotate" being when you actually unstick. I can hear those voices on
>> the black box recorders now...
>
>I think there's a "V3" as well, which is the velocity you *want* to
>have when you take off.
>
>I *like* this!
>
>"Charge levels coming up on E1...."
>
>"Coming up on E2....."
>
>"Damn, they hit us..."
>
>"We can't abort now!"
>
>"I've got E3!"
>
>"Jump!"
>
>This is just *too* cool sounding to *not* incorporate into the game
>mechanics. We'll have to work out the details, but I think it'd cover a
>*lot* of "holes".
>
>E1 = energy level where you *might* be able to jump, but it's still
>     possible to abort.
>
>E2 = energy level where you *must* continue onto a jump or else the
>     drive and storage units will fail catastrophically.
>
>E3 = energy level level required for a safe jump.
>
>Below E1, jump is not possible. Between E1 and E2 misjump is virtually
>certain (treat like jumping inside 10 diameters). Between E2 and E3
>misjump is likely (treat like a jump inside of 100 diameters, but
>outside 10 diameters). At E3 jump is normal.
>
>What do you think guys?
>
>--
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2220
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Monday, January 12 1998      Volume 1997 : Number 2221



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: some more about brown dwarfs
Re: GURPS Traveller -- Metrics Intuititive?!
Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
Re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design
The Annililik Run: Worse than Starships? POSSIBLE SPOILER
The Fall of the Rule Of Man, some questions and ideas
Re:Traveller Adventure
A cry for help
Re: Who Really Started The FIW?
Testing
List problems or the usual Virus Attack
Re: Droyne as PC's?
Re: Population Growth In Traveller (was: Re: THUDDD 8: Specifications) 
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: Chocoholics
Star Info
QSDS Availability
Annililik Run
Re: K'Kree?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 04:21:36 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: some more about brown dwarfs

Bruce Alan Macintosh writes:

>It's a mistake to extrapolate up from planets to brown dwarfs - brown dwarfs
>are, by definition, objects that form like stars (accreting out of 
>their own blob of gas), not like planets (small planetesimals in the disk
>surrounding a young star sticking together into bigger and bigger planetesimals,
>optionally sucking up neighbouring gas once they get big enough.) Brown 
>dwarfs are the low end of the star population, not the high end of the
>planet distribution.

   An extrapolation on my part.  Not to quibble, but wouldn't that
depend upon whether the object in question was closer in size to a red
dwarf than a gas giant?  I could easily see a scenario where a gas giant
drew in enough mass to cross the line and become a brown dwarf.

>>Recent survey results of the Pleiades (in the estimation of
>>experts, the best place to look), yielded only a very few brown dwarfs, this
>>despite predictions that many would be found.
>
>I think the Hyades is a better place to look, but I'm prejudiced.

   I wonder why.  :-)

>The Pleiades surveys have only found a handful of objects, but that's
>because they haven't covered much space, and the pleiades is fairly diffuse,
>and may be depleted of low-mass objects compared to its initial formation.
>It's certainly consistent with there being about the same number of brown 
>dwarfs and late M-dwarfs.

   I was just paraphrasing the article.

>The Pleiades brown dwarfs are field members of their cluster, not companions.
>The two all-sky near-IR surveys (DENIS (European) and 2MASS (American) have
>begun to find some field objects that they interpret as brown dwarfs
>(though I remain skeptical.)

   The text I've read on the subject (not related to the article on the
Pleiades brown dwarfs, which may be the problem) indicated that the
brown dwarfs being studied were companions to stars, not out by
themselves.  If you say so, then it must be the case.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 22:25:27 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller -- Metrics Intuititive?!

>Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:08:03 -0600 (CST)
>From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
>Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller -- Metrics Intuititive?!

>On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Phillip McGregor wrote:
>> As someone old enough to have gone through school at the time Australia was
>> converting from Lsd to Decimal currency and from Imperial Weights and
Measures
>> to Metrics I can assure you that metrics are *not* any more "intuitive" than
>> Imperial measures. I think we could say that any system one is brought up
with
>> is *intuitive*, but I still find it easier and more meaningful to convert to
>> Imperial measures when I need to know the magnitude of something.

>Metric units are not necessarily more 'intuitive' than other units.  That's
>not the advantage of metric units.  The advantage is that the units are all
>decimal, so scaling is simply a matter of moving the decimal point.  Also,
>the base units measure intrinsic properties (mass, length, time) instead
>of extrinsic properties (specifically: weight) so they are more useful in
>scientific calculations (more useful = simpler).

>People can get used to anything but will most likely find the units they
>grew up with more 'intuitive' because they are more used to them.

It's more a matter of congnition. People think in the units they are brought
up with, which is why people brought up with Imperial units find themselves
picturing things in Imperial units; it's how their brain works.

However for Traveller, I think that metrics has to be the way to go. Canon
dictates it. The RoM grows out of the UN and the various national governments.
And as far as I'm aware the UN and all the worlds major governments use
metrics (even the US govt uses metrics, its only the general population which
sticks with Imperial units :*>).

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm (general)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/abuse/abuse.htm (sexual abuse pages)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/traveller.htm (Traveller pages)

****************************************************************************
We're digging a hole in the road, you can't go up, you can't go down
you'll have to wait to drive around
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 11:11:15 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

TO:  Faculty of Numerology
     Teloran Theological Institute, Ishag

FR:  Redeye
     Scientific Exchange Group
     Number 15 Xenopolitical Investigative Task Force (Sylea)

DT:  011-0002

RE:  Astropolitical Influences of the Number 4


I am delighted to learn that you, too, have noted the interesting situation
that every integer is the sum of no more than four squares.  So far as we
have been able to determine, this was first conclusively proven by the
Solomani comrade Lagrange.  Interesting, yes?  The very same person who
discovered the stable orbital points so useful in building large space
habitats and other facilities.  Clearly this is not a coincidence.  You
will note that she made the former proof in the Solomani year 1770, and
that the standard Imperial astrography is constructed so as to contain a
coordinate marked 1770 in each sector.  We suggest an immediate armed
reconnaissance of all such locations.

(I'm sure you will agree that Solomani-derived cartography exhibits many
interesting encodings of 4 -- the subsector grid within a sector (4x4 or
4^2 ?), for example -- all of which demand serious analysis.)

The signficance of only one in six of all numbers actually _requiring_ four
squares is unclear to us.  Clearly, 4^n(8m+7) is worthy of further study
and interpretation vis-a-vis the secret patterning of space settlement.

Furthermore, you will note that the probable solution to the "map coloring
problem" (as described by Solomani mathematicians) is four.  To us this
suggests (if proven) that the secular profusion of geopolitical units on
the interstellar map are reducible to four unique and perfectly
noncontiguous power blocs.  Our colleagues [CLASSIFIED], as you might well
imagine.

I must note that your faith (as I am able to understand it at this time)
may neglect to fully account for the ontonumeric properties of _one_.
Consider, for example, the children's game (among us in the Concourse --
your people, too?) of taking any number, forming a new number from the sum
of the squares of its digits, and iterating.  As you know, the sequence
always either lands at 1, or settles into the loop based on 4 (4, 16, 37,
89, 145, 42, 20, 4...).  That is why we in the Concouse [CLASSIFIED] or
until such a time.

Furthermore, as Brocard, another late Solomani comrade, pointed out, n!+1
is a square when n=4 -- that is, 4!+1=5.  Five, yes?  [CLASSIFIED] Guaran
[CLASSIFIED].  Think about it!

Your gift of sulfuric acid bath salts were most appreciated by myself and
other Slimy members of the embassy (though our Sayat comrades did rather
object to its unusually pungent bouquet!), and I hope you will all enjoy
the copper oxide breakfast-cereal flakes which I have taken the liberty of
enclosing.


Enclosure: (1)
tr: Tunngardaya

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 09:23:20 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: T4.1 Starship Combat & Design

On 01/11/98 at 08:42 AM Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net> said:


>Sorry, my first post lost the nice ASCII lines I drew, so I'm reposting
>with boxes made of ASCII-7 characters. ;->
>
>On 01/08/98 at 04:43 PM,  "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> said:
>
>>An excellent idea, but don't forget that different systems would probably
>>react differently to damage.  Some would be put out of commission by any
>>damage.  Others could sustain almost total destruction before becoming
>>inoperative.
>
>Not that I've given this more than a few cursory thoughts, but I was
>considering a two track line with the top being capability and the bottom
>being damage, something like...
>
> Lidar  Rate    4       3     2       1     0
>               +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>        Damage | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
>               +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>Each "hit" would be marked in the damage boxes as a slash.  As the hits
>accumulate the ability of the device would fall toward zero.  In *this*
>case it takes 6 hits to reduce capability one point.  The number of hit
>points per hit would vary.  I'd add that after the damage row is filled the
>device isn't functioning, additional damage would would be shown by a
>backslash in each box..fill the row a second time and the device is
>*destroyed* and can't be repaired..must be replaced.
>
>Examples of what I mean...
>
> Power  Rate               5  4  3  2    1     0
> Plant          +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>        Damage  | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
>                +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
> The Power Plant takes several points of damage before losing any
> capability, then loses it quickly down to a low level where it
> maintains some function for quite awhile.
>
> Jump   Rate                       3 0
> Drive          +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>        Damage  | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
>                +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>
> The Jump Drive is armored and shielded so it takes many hits with no
> lose of function, but once it's damaged enough to affect capability it
> loses it all at once.
>
>As I said, this complicates things, and might not be appropriate for the
>"pretzels and beer" version, but I think it *is* doable.


That covers my concerns quite admirably.  Us gearheads don't mind a little
extra paperwork for the added realism it brings to a game.  We don't need a
description cards when we can have an actual detail sheet covering the
actual state of repair using statistics like you have described.
_______________

I must be Travelling,

Richard
_______________

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:41:52 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: The Annililik Run: Worse than Starships? POSSIBLE SPOILER

Yesterday I probably bought the worst Traveller product I have ever had the
misfortune to own. Starships is superb compared to it and generally has
better deckplans (I mean SSDS ain't bad!). Bear in mind that this is
written having read the first part in detail and skimmed the other two (as
I haven't the stomach for reading them in depth).

The Annililik Run, by James M Ward.

Hereafter I'll call it AR for short.

AR Pros:
- --------
1) One of the best Foss covers to date (Very attractive and almost
Travelleresque).

2) Nice art by Steve Bryant inside.

3) layout isn't bad at all.

AR Cons.
- -------
1) The scenario does not meet the blurb on the back. Cpt Tanner is not the
owner of the Annililik, rather he owns the Phoenix in the first scenario.

2) The three parts are only vaguely linked by the fact that they allegedly
occur on the route from Core to Vland. Why allegedly? There are *no*
starmaps and not even a reference to First Survey (flawed though it is).

3) In what appears to be an attempt at simplifying the writing, most
locations in the first part of the scenario are asteroids. These have lousy
deckplans/layouts, and in most cases are unbelievable.

4) The Phoenix is not detailed, and is probably totally uneconomic (5000
dt, J0, M4, 500dt cargo and running on incidental contraband).

5) the J0 must be a typo else it coudn't enter all the different systems
described, could it?

6) A total lack of understanding of the Traveller ethos, background, or
rules - examples include references to the "Vland Territories", loads of
>TL12 (TL15!) artifacts in the cargo IN MILIEU 0, loads of almost AI
robots, Marines commonly refered to as 'Space Marines', no references to
the Sylean Federation, an ex-Vilani Military officer called 'Blackjack
Tanner', robots programmed by Tanner who has no computer or robotics skill,
main npcs, magic neutron grenades, magic plasma devices, the magic
gravitron spike, assorted non-canon TL11 aliens and ships...

7) A scenario written to randomly kill characters - the final attack on the
ship should butcher the players if played by T4 rules.

8) Little bits of egotism by the author (may characters/npcs are named with
variations on his name).

9) Lack of understanding of FFS2/QSDS etc. (Eg magic laser weapons that can
obtain double the power from a laser pack).

10) three different scenarios with three different ships with no reason for
the players to run through these.

In short this is an AD&D scenario written for Traveller that is totally
insensitive to the published background. Before, we've seen IG ignore the
previously published background and rules. Here we see them ignore the T4
rules and supplements they have published. DO NOT BUY THIS PRODUCT - its
glossy finish means that it can't even serve as a mouse mat like Starships.

A final note - the credits read 'Based on an Original Concept by BITS/CORE
(Andy Lilly, Jo Grant and David Burden)'. Somehow I think that the
'Original Concept' here has less to do with the published scenario than
Starship Troopers had to do with Heinlein's book. I guess that the CORE
concept writers wouldn't mind their name being taken off this unmitigated
rubbish.

Dom

PS Usually those of you in the US manage to spot these turkeys for us in
the UK before we buy them...

PPS Wasn't James Ward a TSR writer?

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:46:36 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: The Fall of the Rule Of Man, some questions and ideas

I'm currently about a third of the way through Dune (the original novel) for
the nth time after seeing the movie and having it perk my interest again.
So, what does this have to do with Traveller, you ask? Well the novel is a
very rich source for information on the long distance control of an
interstellar empire without FTL commo, if you read between the lines, and it
has made me think about the fall of the 2nd Empire.

There was a short lived thread on the list a while back about the break
apart of the ROM and I would like to see it restarted. Basically, as i
remeber it, it discussed the rules of succession in the ROM and how the
Emperors councillors may have broken up into warring factions over the
succession. How CANON is this idea? Relating some of this to the Dune story
line, what does the list think the chances were that some of the Great
Houses (to use the Dune term) went "renegade" during the struggles for
power? Tearing off into the unknown with their technology and retainers to
set up Pocket Empires in non-Imperial Space. Would you expect these PE's to
retain and even improve on the 2I base tehlevel? If they did miss the Long
Night, about what tech level would they be expected to be at by M:0? Where
is the most likely place for these PE's to be found?

What information is out there about the ROM? I have none of the MetaTrav
books, how much and what books contain, information partaining to the fall
of the ROM? Is there anyone else out there working in this millieu?

Thanks for listeming
Mike Peters@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 01:08:15 -0000
From: "Nicholas Wright" <xgr52@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re:Traveller Adventure

Benjamin Barton wrote:
>I have and old Red Book labeled "The Traveller Adventure" Vol2
>....GDW202....A4 size
>just wondering if there was ever a Vol 1.....I have never seen it on any
>list of products.

Vol 1.....GDW 201.....A4 size
is   The Traveller Adventure
basically the first 3 LBBs, the half adventure Shadows and another small
adventure Exit Visa.
Under the glossy full colour dust jacket it looks like an LBB except its
hardback and A4

Nick Wright

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:15:58 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: A cry for help

help

I remember coming across a webpage with some info on one of these races,
but I can't for the life of me remember who's it was. Can anyone help.

Thank you

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm (general)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/abuse/abuse.htm (sexual abuse pages)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/traveller.htm (Traveller pages)

****************************************************************************
We're digging a hole in the road, you can't go up, you can't go down
you'll have to wait to drive around
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:15:35 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Who Really Started The FIW?

Harold D. Hale wrote:

>>If all of this was later expanded on or changed by "Rats and Cats" (a book I
>>regretfuly do not have) please let me know. It'll mean modifying some of the
>>early history of my own campagn setting,
>
>   Not at all.  It was indeed expanded upon by AM6.  Naturally enough my
>books are in Lexington as I type this (I'm in Dayton at the moment about
>2 hours away), but I'm sure someone can quote you chapter and verse if I
>don't get to it first.

   Oops!  Meant to say I was indeed in "Rats and Cats" not AM6.  Sorry
for the confusion.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:46:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Testing

We have made several changes to our mail processor over the weekend 
to try and speed up delivery.

Just checking to make sure things work well.

Rob
- -- 
Rob Miracle
rwm@mpgn.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:12:10 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: List problems or the usual Virus Attack

First... Sorry to waste bandwith! But if anyone sees this can they drop me a
private mail. I haven't recieved message from the TML in about 24 hours.
Trav-tech comes through but nothing else. Major_domo at MPGN still has me
listed as a member, and answers my queries fine. I've also checked a noted
that there are new Digests on the FTP site. Is this just me or everyone else
too.

Mike Peter
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:18:56 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Re: Droyne as PC's?

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/11/98 09:18 PM

>Mr. Electric Stitch or anyone have how to make a Droyne Pc?
>Anything that could be used for T4 in a format like the K'kree
>post?

I haven't seen the relevant AM, but there is a CT generation sequence in
the back of Adventure 3, Twilight's Peak. I have a copy of that unless
someone has a better sequence.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:31:04 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Population Growth In Traveller (was: Re: THUDDD 8: Specifications) 

Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net> wrote

> Subject: Re: THUDDD 8: Specifications
> 
> (Quoting with permission from Michael's private email to me...)
> 
> On Fri, 2 Jan 1998, Michael Koehne wrote:
> 
> >       Times are changing ;-)
> 
> Yeah, take a nap for a millennium and suddenly you need a new
> encyclopedia... :)  (Michael is comparing M:0 and M:1100 values for
> the systems on my THUDDD 8 route.)
> 
> > >     1919 Khula         B-475AAA-C  HiPop, Ind
> >            Khula         B-475977-F  N Hi In
> 
> This strikes me as an interesting progression...massive population drop
> and conversion from single world government to balkanization.  Given that
> the tech continued to be state-of-the-art, I'd guess a relatively
> nondisruptive, drawn-out disaster...plague, perhaps, in humans or food
> crops...?

Maybe the population simply did not breed rapidly enough to replace
itself and the population decreased naturally without any disasters at
all.

Suppose that each woman on Khula in Milieu 0 had an average of 1.7
children.  Assuming that emigration and immigration balanced and that
the number of clone births & birth by men is insignificant each
generation on Khula will be 85% of the size of the previos generation. 
If Khula averaged 3 generations per century then the population of Khula
would drop 62% in only 200 years and by over 91% in only 500 years.  In
1100 years its population would drop 99.5%+, if its Milieu 0 population
was 90 billion its Milieu 1100 population would then be about 400
million (population 8).  Obviously these figures are slightly simplified
since many people from previous generations will still be alive in
Milieu 1100 and the Milieu 0 population was (presumably) not all of
child bearing age (whatever that is by TL 12).

These fertility rates are fairly consistant with those seen right now in
native born populations in some northern european countries so this is
by no means an implausible scenario.  This rate of population loss could
also be mandated by the government, similar to China one child policy,
please note that it is Governmnet A & Law Level A in Milieu 0.  It is
not too implausible to relate the change to balkanization as being
related to the population loss - as the population grew less dense it
became less easy and less necessary to maintain a world government.  A
cynic could even make a story out of this, for instance:

Khula's governmnet in Milieu 0 adopted a one child per woman rule for
its subjects of SOC 2-9 while limiting its SOC 10-12 subjects to 2
children.  This would give an average female fertility rate of 1.17
children.  This policy continued for 200 years during which time the
population dropped from 90 billion to about 3 billion.  The governmnet
was then overthrown (for reasons that may, or may not, have been
related).  The rebels decided that world governmnet was two dangerous
and set up nation states.  With the removal of the 1 child per woman
policy fertility rates climbed back to replacement levels, but no
higher, and Khula's population has remained roughly stable for the past
900 years. 

If each woman on Khula had an average of 1.2 children each generation
would be only 60% as big as the previous generation.  Khula's population
would then drop 95%+ in only 200 years.  In 1100 years (33 generations)
the population would drop 99.999995%+, if its Milieu 0 population was 90
billion its Milieu 1100 population would then be about 4,300 people
(population 5).

As populations grow richer and more technically advanced they tend to
have fewer children.  There is _NO_ reason to presume that this trend
will not continue.  In addition to this general explanation there are
any number of planet specific reasons why the population might tend to
decrease.  For example Khula has a tainted atmosphere.  It is quite
possible that the nature of this taint has a subtle negative effect on
the human reproductive system (male, female, or both).   

> > >     2017 Tahwer        C-769A88-8  HiPop
> >            Tahaver       B-769978-A    Hi
> 
> Another population die-back and conversion to balkanization...what's the
> connection with what happened on Khula?  Same cause, or different?

It could well be the same reason, negative population growth.

I should note that "canonically" in Traveller populations are assumed to
grow.  TNE explains how to convert from the immediate post Virus
pouplation to the Milieu 1200 population by deciding on the population
growth rate of the planet.  Just because the post Final War population
tended to grow does not mean that earlier populations did so.  Nor are
individual Refs bound by this policy if they disagree.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:07:29 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

So, I am back from my internet abstinence, now I've got 800 TML Messages
to read ... I think hardly anyone missed me.

As far as I got I'll say that I await GURPS: Traveller.
I do not know much of GURPS, I by now only read one supplement.
But what I've seen of this system seems very interesting to me. I do not
think of adapting the rules to my campaign yet, but perhaps will use them
in a new one - especially if there are some GURPS experienced players.

Now what makes me think a lot is the idea of an alternate timeline
starting at 1116. This is not because I don't like it, as I do like it -
In fact I am planning to make my campaign into a search of one of
grandfathers unknown artifacts - a time machine. That's why the module I
bought was GURPS: Time Travel ... (for those who think this will be to
powerful - it isn't, as it's not moveable and travel is only possible
within the existance time of this thing with a ship not more than 100 tons
- - hey, that's my part of the universe!.)

Now see what comes to my mind: If my players find out how to use that
thing, and want to make it, they have the possibility to travel into two
different futures - one with and one without the imperium. Or they could
be the ones to travel back in time from the assassination of Strephon and
alter history!

I wonder if anyone would publish the adventures in my mind - they now get
very complex. Pray my group won't kill me for them!

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:22:00 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Chocoholics

On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Richard A. Flores wrote:

> > Vargr would also get drunk on alcohol just as easily as humans too. I'd
> > guess chocolate liqueurs would be *big* sellers among Vargr.  ;->
> > 
> > Now, what about Aslan, K'kree, and <snicker> Hivers?  What recreational
> > stimulants/depressants will they use?
> 
> Alcohol would probably do just fine for the Aslan.  Perhaps cat-nip tea
> would be a real "picker-upper."
> 
> As for K'kree, have you ever seen a stoned cow?  I have, here in the
> heartland, dairy and beef farmers are constantly on the look-out for them. 
> If you have one stoned cow, look out, because soon you may have more.  They
> get stoned on a local weed called Locoweed (spelling varies by locality). 
> Perhaps the K'kree would enjoy something like that.
> 
AFAIK, there was a canon trade good called "highleaf", perhaps this is a
kind of this locoweed ... as it was restricted to non-Imperial trade, I
wonder what impact it had on humans ... or horses, as the K'kree resemble
more of them than cows. I wonder if catnip is the same what in Germany is
called Baldrian ...

Now let's think about the diverse human drinks with their substances:

Coffee - coffeine
Tea    - teine
Cacao  - theobromine
Chocl. - theophylline

As these are quite similar substances, what would do tea to an
Vargr/Aslan/K'kree?
Does anybody know more (mildly) intoxicating substances?
Enter the chemistry of Traveller ...

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:21:00 -0500
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: Star Info

Hal wrote:
(a lot of stuff about stars)

Thank you for the information about stars. I love this stuff

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:54:06 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: QSDS Availability

QRC's employee web server has been down or unavailable for the last few months.
Since this is clearly a non-mission-critical system, it has taken a while to
get the serve back up.  The reasons for the outage include the installation of 
a new operating system and web server, and an attack on the machine by some
"crackers" who clearly have far too much time on their hands and too little
useful work to do.

The system is now back up, and I have loaded created a "temporary" Traveller
page until I can finish revamping my website.  The temporary page includes
downloadable copies of QSDS 1.5 and RPSC 0.9.  These are the most current
releases of both packages.  The URL is:

     http://users.qrc.com/~wildstar/traveller




wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "It's Science Fiction, if, presuming technical competence on the part of the
    writer, he genuinely believes it could happen."  --- John W. Campbell, Jr.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 22:58:33 -0800
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@engr.orst.edu>
Subject: Annililik Run

Just picked up a copy of this a week or so ago at Powell's Books
in Beaverton, OR.  They've generally been pretty good about keeping
a handful T4 books on the shelves, including the latest stuff that's
out.

Ships are described using IS ship cards.  Deck plans are taken from
Starships (all staterooms aboard "The Hope" have wheel hatch doors and
the stateroom access corridor is 20 meters wide, including a 40 meter
long dead end in the bow).

The book has 64 pages, broken into three related adventures.  Haven't
had a chance to read it in detail yet, but what I've seen of the writing
looks okay.  Plentiful character write ups, some new hand weapons, TL 1
- - 15 explosives (looking to be straight out of Gamma World), 4
starships, some robots, an asteroid, other goodies.

Worth buying at $12.95 US; just try not to look at any of the floor
plans.  8-)


Clark

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:18:55 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: K'Kree?

On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Will wrote:

> > vielen Dank fr jene Anmerkungen auf dem K'Kree. Ich habe nahe bei > nichts auf allen
> mglichen Laufstckrennen an allen und habe missied die auslndischen Module.
> 
> > habe ich MegaTraveller-Ergnzung, " Vilani u. Vargr ", aber das ist es
> ich wrde lieben, stats
> auf den anderen Rennen zu sehen.
> 
> Samehere mit mir, ich alle meine CT-Module zurck in 89 ' hat verlor jemand getan mehr mit den
> Hauptrennen?
> 
> Dieses wrde ein Hauptbost zu meinem Spiel:- sein),
> 
> Dank
> 
> " neuer TNE Aktualisierungsvorgang " Willenslaufstck-homepage
> http://www.sisna.com/users/panzer/t4.htm
> 

Er ... how do I say it polite? I think, of the three German readers of
this Mailing list, we do understand the English postings quite well.
I am sorry, I do NOT quite understand the German postings without the
English ones, as they seem to be translated word by word, which is the
completely wrong.
So better stop it, these belong to the "funny once" category.

But I would like to give you some hints how to enhance your german as I am
fluent in this language since nearly the 26 years I'm on this earth.

I wish you many efforts in learning new languages, but - later.

L.A.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2221
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Monday, January 12 1998      Volume 1997 : Number 2222



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2219
Re: THUDDD 8: Specifications
Starship Plans
Re: The Assasination
Re: Jumping away from pirates
Re: Mayday !?!
Tainted Atmospheres
Re: Brown Dwarves
Testing
Traveller List(s) ?
TEsting part deux
Testing Part 3
Re: some more about brown dwarfs
Re: Cylons in Traveller
Diagnostic posting
Hello?
Test #4
Test #4
Test #4
Testing #5
[none]
Mailing List Problems (yet again)
Re: Testing #5
Re: The Fall of the Rule Of Man
Re: Mailing List Problems (yet again)
Re: Testing #5
Move over, Sayat machine translators!
Biochemistries
Is this the endd of the Third Imperium?
Re: Move over, Sayat machine translators!
Re: Is this the endd of the Third Imperium?
Re: Biochemistries

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:29:10 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2219

>Sorry to burden the list with this, but maybe it'll scare up a couple other
>registrants as well.
>
>ROB PRIOR.  METATOR, IGS, CSC: COOL WAREZ.
>
>Email to the last address I have for you (Rob) keeps bouncing back. Please
>let me know how I can send you money.

My current email is _supposed_ to be: rob_prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca

My postal address is:

Robert Prior
67 Geenbelt Crescent
Richmond Hill, Ontario
Canada
L4C 5S1


My bank's service charges for cashing cheques in foreign currencies is
large.  Unless you're sending amounts larger than $100, please send me a
postal or money order in US dollars.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:22:20 -0600
From: "Steven Bonneville" <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: THUDDD 8: Specifications

Craig Berry wrote:

> On Fri, 2 Jan 1998, Michael Koehne wrote:
[...]
> > 	Some of the systems changed names, most change government
> > 	in the 1000 years reich (3rd empire). At 2016 they even changed
> > 	their mainworld. But the main thing I wonder is how are starships
> > 	build at TL0 ? The only class A starport on the route is at Tauri.

As Craig said, starships probably *aren't* built at Tauri Down Port; the
local technology isn't up to it.  But, if you've looked at the economics
of the route for THUDDD-8, a class A starport has serious benefits for a
world even if it doesn't build any ships there.

First off, class-A ports have Broker-4 offices which give a big boost to
speculative trade.  Always, always use the best broker you can buy.  The
share they get may be 20% of selling price, but on average you'll get an
increase of 50% in selling price by using them.

Better starport facilities also benefit a trader when buying trade goods.
All other things being equal, goods from a world with a class-A port will
cost kCr 2 less per ton than they would from an identical world that has
a class-C starport.

This encourages trade traffic.  You can buy lower and sell higher at a
world with a good port than anywhere else.  Having a good starport isn't
everything, though.  A tech level much lower than neighbor worlds and a
lack of trade classifications in demand can still make exporting too
unprofitable.

The next target for class-A starport construction should be one of the
high-tech powerhouses like Vland or Khula.  They can certainly afford
the expenditure, would reap serious benefits, and a site that actually
could build modern ships in the area would be nice.  

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:29:40 -0500
From: John Toth <jtoth@erols.com>
Subject: Starship Plans

I am dabbling into Plan making and I was wondering if anyone has a Good Visio
Template 4.0- to make starship plans with.

Any other Information is also greatly Appreciated.

John Toth

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:55:09 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: The Assasination

Eris Reddoch writes:
>On 01/04/98 at 09:00 AM,  "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> said:
> 
>>But the IISS Guard?  Simple logic has them drawing ammo from a different
>>supply than the Imperial Guard Regiments.  These guys are supposed to be
>>the final line of defence for the personage of the Emperor!  It would be a
>>damning condemnation of the state of the Imperial Household if security
>>was so lax as to allow Dulinor to learn which 12-sophont detail was to be
>>in the Throne room that day, along with pictures so the Illelish Guard
>>could pick them off.
> 
>I've always thought the same thing, but that's not how the GDW staff worked
>it...the first time.  ;->

I've never thought about it before, but you're right. The issue should have
been addressed. I don't think the IISS guards could necessarily have saved
Iphegenia -- it dosen't take long to fire three shots -- but Dulinor could
not have felt at all confident of surviving unless the IISS guards had
somehow been dealt with. (Come to think about it, wouldn't there be a
risk of other High Nobles (with ceremonial guns) being present?
 

>It wasn't *just* Iphengia, it was Valerian being killed by Lucan at the
>same time...just too darn coincidental.

There I disagree. There was no coincidence involved. Read the two stories
again. Dulinor had arranged for the two princes to be assasinated
simultaneously (Dulinor must have used up several lifetimes of luck in
setting up such a complicated operations without someone letting the
cat out of the bag). The assasination was bungled but gave Lucan the
opportunity to kill Varian.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:05:30 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Jumping away from pirates

"Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com> writes>

>There are plenty of places to hide..
>
>Gas Giants (a gotcha during wilderness refueling)

Sigh. Gas Giants are big. The odds that a merchant will chose just that
part of the Gas Giant close enough to where you are lurking is... not
good. Furthermore, Gas Giant refuelling takes time and is seldomly
economical (I say seldomly to avoid setting off a new debate on this
line; personally I think the word should be 'almost never', but others
think differently). 

>Moons (depends on how small and close).

If you 'lurk' where you can see a merchant coming, the merchant can see
you. And why should any merchant fly close to a moon? Space is big and
moons are small. There's plenty of room to avoid them. Besides, how did
you get to the moon in the first place? You arrived at the planetary
jump limit and moved there under power. A single SDB will give the
authorities an excellent to track you all the way. A couple will make
it impossible for you to avoid detection.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:34:22 -0800
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
Subject: Re: Mayday !?!

Anders Backman wrote:

>As the number of turns increase the relative difference between distance
>travelled using Mayday scales (s = at^2) approaches the textbook formula (s
>0 (1/2)at^2) and as the Mayday pieces graphically simulates the ships
>velocity which should be computed with the formula v = at the scale is
>correct right?

I don't think so. I think that each turn needs to be viewed as a seperate
event, with time and "inertial frame" (I never thought I'd ever use that
term) reset to zero to start the new bout of accelleration.


Schoon

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:53:41 EST
From: Dedly <Dedly@aol.com>
Subject: Tainted Atmospheres

Has anyone constructed a table to randomly generate the type of taint which
plagues a planet? (Please forgive me if this has been covered in either World
Tamers or World Builders. I don't have either book.)

I've come up with the following taint types so far:
bacterial, viral, fungal spore, volcanic dust, sandstorms, industrial
pollution (coal, carbon monoxide, sulfur dioxide, non-corrosive levels of
chlorine & fluorine), naturally occuring high concentrations of certain gases
(sulfur dioxide, nitrogen dioxide, carbon dioxide, non-corrosive levels of
chlorine & fluorine), thin ozone layer.

If this topic hasn't been discussed elsewhere, please let me know what you
think.

Thanks!
\_/
DED

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:54:37 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Brown Dwarves

>.07/.42 = 1/6, so there are about one-sixth as many BrnDrvs as MVs.
Fair enough - the number is poorly enough known that you can pretty much
make it up.

BTW, in astronomy, the plural of "Dwarf" is "Dwarfs."

>Also, do you think it is likely for Brown Dwarves to occur in pairs
>(i.e. binaries) when occuring as the hub of their own "solar" system?
>I take it that MVs frequently do this, so it ought to be as common
>for their lesser cousins, right?

I think it's likely, but it's debatable - depends on how binary stars form
(which we don't know.) 

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:15:12 -0500
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Testing

This is another test

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:18:02 -0600
From: Mike Marchi <mjm@42north.org>
Subject: Traveller List(s) ?

I have seen references in TML to other Traveller lists, such as Trav CD, TNE,
xboat etc...
Is there a compresensive list of all of these Traveller lists somewhere?

- --
Mike Marchi

*   My WebPage:           http://www.42north.org/~mjm/roleplay/Traveller.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:23:44 -0500
From: rwm@mpgn.com
Subject: TEsting part deux

Test Test Test

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:29:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Testing Part 3

The third test that didn't work.
- -- 
Rob Miracle
rwm@mpgn.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:31:42 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: some more about brown dwarfs

>   An extrapolation on my part.  Not to quibble, but wouldn't that
>depend upon whether the object in question was closer in size to a red
>dwarf than a gas giant?  I could easily see a scenario where a gas giant
>drew in enough mass to cross the line and become a brown dwarf.

It's a good question, and not a quibble. The question is - how does one
define the difference between a brown dwarf and a gas giant? There's no
consensus on a magic mass number to arbitrarily use to define the 
difference, so the main choices are (a) define based on formation mechanism
(brown dwarfs form like stars, gas giants form like planets); (b) define
based on "significant" deuterium-burning early in their life; or (c)
pretend there's no meaningful distinction. It's worth some argument.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:46:31 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Cylons in Traveller

>If you're going to have Cylons in Traveller, remember that their rifles
>are mostly for show.  Their targetting systems are such that they cannot
>actually hit and mortally wound a human with their rifles, although they've
>(on rare occasion) managed to graze or wound someone.

They must suffer from the same disease that the storm troopers in Star Wars
suffer from.  :)

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:43:34 -0500 (EST)
From: "David E. Brooks Jr" <dbj@pelops.com>
Subject: Diagnostic posting

(Sorry 'bout this guys, but we're trying to diagnose a problem with
our mailing lists...)

- --
David E. Brooks Jr			mailto:dbj@pelops.com
Tantalus Incorporated			http://members.iglou.com/dbj/
130 Fairfax Avenue, Suite 1D		
Louisville, KY 40207			finger dbj@iglou.com for public key

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 98 19:51 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Hello?

Is the list down?
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:12:45 -0500
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Test #4

Send Mail is sooooo much fun.

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:12:45 -0500
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Test #4

Send Mail is sooooo much fun.

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:12:45 -0500
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Test #4

Send Mail is sooooo much fun.

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:41:19 -0500
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Testing #5

This one might work . . . . .

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:13:53 -0000
From: "Stephen Price" <steve.price@virgin.net>
Subject: [none]

subscribe traveller

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:48:31 -0500
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Mailing List Problems (yet again)

We think we have the list working again.  Things seem to be operating a lot
smoother now.  Give it a spin.

Rob
- --
Rob Miracle
Play WebDrakkar (http://www.mpgn.com/web-drakkar.html)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:54:06 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Testing #5

Rob Miracle wrote:

> This one might work . . . . .
>
> Rob

  Read you 5x5.

I just subscribed to TML again.  Is it active?

Steve D.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:55:00 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Re: The Fall of the Rule Of Man

Michael D. Peters writes...
>Basically, as i remeber it, it discussed the rules of succession in the
>ROM and how the Emperors councillors may have broken up into
>warring factions over the succession.

To have succession wars, you need to have at least stabalised on
a succession. I hadn't thought there were actually emporers in
the Rule of Man.
  I think a better model for the Rule of Man is the Alexandrian Empire.
There he tore into a vast, old, creaking empire (The Persian Empire,
which was actually larger than the Roman Empire ever got) and
took it over. There was really no way he could rule it even if he hadn't
died. It all, more or less, fell apart afterward with little enclaves
who remembered (anyone see/read The Man Who Would be King?).

>what does the list think the chances were that some of the Great
>Houses (to use the Dune term) went "renegade" during the struggles for
>power? Tearing off into the unknown with their technology and retainers to
>set up Pocket Empires in non-Imperial Space.

I think this was a continuous process throughout Imperial History. I'm
in the middle of creating sector files for all those periferial sectors that
there are just dot-plots for. Man, there are little "Pocket Empires" all
over the bloody place. Even in 1100. I think they are there in all ages,
wherever the edge is.

>Would you expect these PE's to retain and even improve on the
>2I base tehlevel?
Not a chance. It is going to be difficult enough for them to be self
sufficient, let alone prevent backsliding.

>If they did miss the Long Night,

You could say that a Pocket Empire is continually in the dark of a
Long Night. The definition of the Long Night was the cessation
of anything more than very local trade. A Pocket Empire is
always in this state.

>Where is the most likely place for these PE's to be found?

On the edge of _any_ milieu.

Cheers,
Jo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:05:31 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Mailing List Problems (yet again)

I was wondering when we would be back online... :)

Having fun?? <big evil grin>

Cya L8tr

> We think we have the list working again.  Things seem to be operating a lot
> smoother now.  Give it a spin.
> 
> Rob
> --
> Rob Miracle
> Play WebDrakkar (http://www.mpgn.com/web-drakkar.html)
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    Dictatorship (n): a form of government under which everything 
    which is not prohibited is compulsory.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:09:31 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Testing #5

Nope.. we are just figments of our collective conce...

Ahh.. nevermind :)

> 
> I just subscribed to TML again.  Is it active?
> 
> Steve D.
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    Intuition (n): an uncanny sixth sense which tells people 
    that they are right, whether they are or not.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:17:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Move over, Sayat machine translators!

Check out this url:

  http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate

for a really amazingly good machine translator program which handles
translation (both ways) between English and Spanish, Portuguese, French,
and German.  Aim it at a URL, give it the translation desired, and it
outputs that page in the desired language.  I mapped the THUDDD page at

  http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/thuddd.html

into Spanish and was astonished...a few linguistic problems, a lot of
table mishandling, but in the main quite good.

I know this is somewhat off-topic, but there are enough folks on these
lists who will enjoy this that I hope you'll forgive me.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:24:23 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Biochemistries

On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Richard A. Flores wrote:

> > Vargr would also get drunk on alcohol just as easily as humans too. I'd
> > guess chocolate liqueurs would be *big* sellers among Vargr.  ;->
> > 
> > Now, what about Aslan, K'kree, and <snicker> Hivers?  What recreational
> > stimulants/depressants will they use?
> 
> Alcohol would probably do just fine for the Aslan.  Perhaps cat-nip tea
> would be a real "picker-upper."
> 
> As for K'kree, have you ever seen a stoned cow?  I have, here in the
> heartland, dairy and beef farmers are constantly on the look-out for them. 
> If you have one stoned cow, look out, because soon you may have more.  They
> get stoned on a local weed called Locoweed (spelling varies by locality). 
> Perhaps the K'kree would enjoy something like that.

To which Lars Responded:

> AFAIK, there was a canon trade good called "highleaf", perhaps this is a
> kind of this locoweed ... as it was restricted to non-Imperial trade, I
> wonder what impact it had on humans ... or horses, as the K'kree resemble
> more of them than cows. I wonder if catnip is the same what in Germany is
> called Baldrian ...
> 
> Now let's think about the diverse human drinks with their substances:
> 
> Coffee - coffeine
> Tea    - teine
> Cacao  - theobromine
> Chocl. - theophylline
> 
> As these are quite similar substances, what would do tea to an
> Vargr/Aslan/K'kree?

Speculations on Vargr based on the reactions of dogs have some value, but I
point out (yet again) that Aslan and K'kree are no more closely related to
cats and horses (respectively) than they are to eggplants. Both have different
biochemistries than Terran animals, and will probably react differently to
tea, coffee, etc. 

They will probably _have_ intoxicants, but they will probably not be effected
in the same way by catnip/locoweed/tea/.coffee/buttermilk/tofu as humans.

Loren Wiseman
     GDW Emeritus

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:14:05 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Is this the endd of the Third Imperium?

Obviously VIRUS has struck yet again, or maybe it's the Templars. SOMEONE
must have said something they shouldn't have. Kenji was it you again??!!!

;^> Just testing the List.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:59:22 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Move over, Sayat machine translators!

Craig Berry wrote:

>Check out this url:
>
>  http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate
>
>for a really amazingly good machine translator program which handles
>translation (both ways) between English and Spanish, Portuguese, French,
>and German.  Aim it at a URL, give it the translation desired, and it
>outputs that page in the desired language.  I mapped the THUDDD page at

[snip]

Yep.  We were playing with this one over on the TravLang list... well, we
were abusing it, technically.  Well, I was, anyway.

Try doing English -> Portuguese -> French -> English of some of the
delightful prose on alt.sex.*.  Definite nasal Pepsi eruption material.

- --------------------------------------------------------
Kenji Schwarz                      Business Manager
Seattle Institute for Biomedical and Clinical Research
(206) 764 2730                     kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:01:51 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Is this the endd of the Third Imperium?

Michael Peters wrote:

>Obviously VIRUS has struck yet again, or maybe it's the Templars. SOMEONE
>must have said something they shouldn't have. Kenji was it you again??!!!

As a matter of fact... I might have.

Early Sunday morning, a mathematician at the Sayat embassy send a brief
note to the Darmine Theological University regarding numerological evidence
of Solomani astrographic conspiracies.

Mea culpa, mea magna culpa.


- --------------------------------------------------------
Kenji Schwarz                      Business Manager
Seattle Institute for Biomedical and Clinical Research
(206) 764 2730                     kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:19:39 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Biochemistries

On Mon, 01/12/98 at 3:35 PM Loren Wiseman, GDW Emeritus at
GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com> said:


>On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Richard A. Flores wrote:
>
>> > Vargr would also get drunk on alcohol just as easily as humans too. I'd
>> > guess chocolate liqueurs would be *big* sellers among Vargr.  ;->
>> >
>> > Now, what about Aslan, K'kree, and <snicker> Hivers?  What recreational
>> > stimulants/depressants will they use?
>>
>> Alcohol would probably do just fine for the Aslan.  Perhaps cat-nip tea
>> would be a real "picker-upper."
>>
>> As for K'kree, have you ever seen a stoned cow?  I have, here in the
>> heartland, dairy and beef farmers are constantly on the look-out for
them.
>> If you have one stoned cow, look out, because soon you may have more.
They
>> get stoned on a local weed called Locoweed (spelling varies by locality).
>> Perhaps the K'kree would enjoy something like that.
>
>To which Lars Responded:
>
>> AFAIK, there was a canon trade good called "highleaf", perhaps this is a
>> kind of this locoweed ... as it was restricted to non-Imperial trade, I
>> wonder what impact it had on humans ... or horses, as the K'kree resemble
>> more of them than cows. I wonder if catnip is the same what in Germany is
>> called Baldrian ...

Probably not.  The German "Baldrian" translates to the English "Valerian."
Valerian is a medicinal preparation made from the roots of one of a group of
medicial plants known as valerians, the best known of which is Heliotrope.

>>
>> Now let's think about the diverse human drinks with their substances:
>>
>> Coffee - coffeine
>> Tea    - teine
>> Cacao  - theobromine
>> Chocl. - theophylline
>>
>> As these are quite similar substances, what would do tea to an
>> Vargr/Aslan/K'kree?
>
>Speculations on Vargr based on the reactions of dogs have some value, but I
>point out (yet again) that Aslan and K'kree are no more closely related to
>cats and horses (respectively) than they are to eggplants. Both have
different
>biochemistries than Terran animals, and will probably react differently to
>tea, coffee, etc.
>
>They will probably _have_ intoxicants, but they will probably not be
effected
>in the same way by catnip/locoweed/tea/.coffee/buttermilk/tofu as humans.


Good point Loren.  Coming from such different genetic backgrounds, it is
quite possible that the above mentioned stimulants and depressants would
either be deadly poisons or of no effect at all.  However, if they have a
nervous system at all simular to the Terran variety, they (the plants) might
affect them just as they do us and other Terrans.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2222
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, January 13 1998     Volume 1997 : Number 2223



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Is this the endd of the Third Imperium?
Re[2]: Biochemistries
Re[2]: Biochemistries
Strephon's assassination
Re: Re[2]: Biochemistries
A cry for help
Public Apology
Re: Public Apology
The Assasination
A cry for help
Re: Question for Marc
Re: Public Apology
Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
Re: Public Apology
Re: Public Apology

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:21:22 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Is this the endd of the Third Imperium?

Naw, just a brief interruption.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:36:00 -0800
From: "GILLESPIE, BIRD" <bird.gillespie@dfsgl.com>
Subject: Re[2]: Biochemistries

     
     
     Valerian is a plant, not exactly a preparation, and its powdered root 
     is the leading over the counter tranquilizer sold in Europe.  Valerian 
     officinalis, officially.  I suppose its just splitting hairs.....
     
     I often drink an infusion of the root (tea) and it works very well 
     (Laid Back, as SnoopDD would say).
     
     bird


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Biochemistries
Author:  traveller@mpgn.com at -FABRIK/Internet
Date:    1/12/98 3:19 PM


From: traveller@mpgn.com
Date: Mon, Jan 12, 1998 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: Biochemistries
To: GILLESPIE, BIRD; traveller
On Mon, 01/12/98 at 3:35 PM Loren Wiseman, GDW Emeritus at 
GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com> said:
     
     
>On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Richard A. Flores wrote: 
>
>> > Vargr would also get drunk on alcohol just as easily as humans too. I'd 
>> > guess chocolate liqueurs would be *big* sellers among Vargr.  ;->
>> >
>> > Now, what about Aslan, K'kree, and <snicker> Hivers?  What recreational 
>> > stimulants/depressants will they use?
>>
>> Alcohol would probably do just fine for the Aslan.  Perhaps cat-nip tea 
>> would be a real "picker-upper."
>>
>> As for K'kree, have you ever seen a stoned cow?  I have, here in the 
>> heartland, dairy and beef farmers are constantly on the look-out for 
them.
>> If you have one stoned cow, look out, because soon you may have more. 
They
>> get stoned on a local weed called Locoweed (spelling varies by locality). 
>> Perhaps the K'kree would enjoy something like that.
>
>To which Lars Responded:
>
>> AFAIK, there was a canon trade good called "highleaf", perhaps this is a 
>> kind of this locoweed ... as it was restricted to non-Imperial trade, I 
>> wonder what impact it had on humans ... or horses, as the K'kree resemble 
>> more of them than cows. I wonder if catnip is the same what in Germany is 
>> called Baldrian ...
     
Probably not.  The German "Baldrian" translates to the English "Valerian." 
Valerian is a medicinal preparation made from the roots of one of a group of 
medicial plants known as valerians, the best known of which is Heliotrope.
     
>>
>> Now let's think about the diverse human drinks with their substances: 
>>
>> Coffee - coffeine
>> Tea    - teine
>> Cacao  - theobromine
>> Chocl. - theophylline
>>
>> As these are quite similar substances, what would do tea to an 
>> Vargr/Aslan/K'kree?
>
>Speculations on Vargr based on the reactions of dogs have some value, but I 
>point out (yet again) that Aslan and K'kree are no more closely related to 
>cats and horses (respectively) than they are to eggplants. Both have 
different
>biochemistries than Terran animals, and will probably react differently to 
>tea, coffee, etc.
>
>They will probably _have_ intoxicants, but they will probably not be effected
>in the same way by catnip/locoweed/tea/.coffee/buttermilk/tofu as humans.
     
     
Good point Loren.  Coming from such different genetic backgrounds, it is 
quite possible that the above mentioned stimulants and depressants would 
either be deadly poisons or of no effect at all.  However, if they have a 
nervous system at all simular to the Terran variety, they (the plants) might 
affect them just as they do us and other Terrans.
     
     
     
     
- ----------
Received: from Phaser.Showcase.MPGN.com by prague.fabrik.com
        with ESMTP (Fabrik F07.1-000)
        id SINN.4319139@prague.fabrik.com ; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:22:15 -0800
Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)
        by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA12002; 
        Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:19:12 -0500
Received: by lists.MPGN.COM (bulk_mailer v1.5); Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:19:08 -0500

Received: (from majordom@localhost)
        by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA11971 
        for traveller-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:18:56 -0500
X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to 
owner-traveller@lists.MPGN.COM using -f
Received: from Mithril.MPGN.COM (Mithril.MPGN.COM [206.66.87.8])
        by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA11961
        for <traveller@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM>; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:18:45
- -0500
Received: from smtp2.mailsrvcs.net (smtp2.gte.net [207.115.153.31]) by 
Mithril.MPGN.COM (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA23313 for <traveller@MPGN.COM>;
     
Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:18:41 -0500
Received: from default (1Cust164.tnt1.broken-arrow.ok.da.uu.net 
[208.254.16.164])
        by smtp2.mailsrvcs.net  with SMTP id RAA11581
        for <traveller@MPGN.COM>; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:18:17 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <004301bd1fb0$8ecf5720$a410fed0@default> 
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
To: <traveller@mpgn.com>
Subject: Re: Biochemistries
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:19:39 -0600 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 
Sender: owner-traveller@lists.MPGN.COM
Reply-To: traveller@mpgn.com
     
- ----------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:36:00 -0800
From: "GILLESPIE, BIRD" <bird.gillespie@dfsgl.com>
Subject: Re[2]: Biochemistries

     
     
     Valerian is a plant, not exactly a preparation, and its powdered root 
     is the leading over the counter tranquilizer sold in Europe.  Valerian 
     officinalis, officially.  I suppose its just splitting hairs.....
     
     I often drink an infusion of the root (tea) and it works very well 
     (Laid Back, as SnoopDD would say).
     
     bird


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Biochemistries
Author:  traveller@mpgn.com at -FABRIK/Internet
Date:    1/12/98 3:19 PM


From: traveller@mpgn.com
Date: Mon, Jan 12, 1998 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: Biochemistries
To: GILLESPIE, BIRD; traveller
On Mon, 01/12/98 at 3:35 PM Loren Wiseman, GDW Emeritus at 
GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com> said:
     
     
>On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Richard A. Flores wrote: 
>
>> > Vargr would also get drunk on alcohol just as easily as humans too. I'd 
>> > guess chocolate liqueurs would be *big* sellers among Vargr.  ;->
>> >
>> > Now, what about Aslan, K'kree, and <snicker> Hivers?  What recreational 
>> > stimulants/depressants will they use?
>>
>> Alcohol would probably do just fine for the Aslan.  Perhaps cat-nip tea 
>> would be a real "picker-upper."
>>
>> As for K'kree, have you ever seen a stoned cow?  I have, here in the 
>> heartland, dairy and beef farmers are constantly on the look-out for 
them.
>> If you have one stoned cow, look out, because soon you may have more. 
They
>> get stoned on a local weed called Locoweed (spelling varies by locality). 
>> Perhaps the K'kree would enjoy something like that.
>
>To which Lars Responded:
>
>> AFAIK, there was a canon trade good called "highleaf", perhaps this is a 
>> kind of this locoweed ... as it was restricted to non-Imperial trade, I 
>> wonder what impact it had on humans ... or horses, as the K'kree resemble 
>> more of them than cows. I wonder if catnip is the same what in Germany is 
>> called Baldrian ...
     
Probably not.  The German "Baldrian" translates to the English "Valerian." 
Valerian is a medicinal preparation made from the roots of one of a group of 
medicial plants known as valerians, the best known of which is Heliotrope.
     
>>
>> Now let's think about the diverse human drinks with their substances: 
>>
>> Coffee - coffeine
>> Tea    - teine
>> Cacao  - theobromine
>> Chocl. - theophylline
>>
>> As these are quite similar substances, what would do tea to an 
>> Vargr/Aslan/K'kree?
>
>Speculations on Vargr based on the reactions of dogs have some value, but I 
>point out (yet again) that Aslan and K'kree are no more closely related to 
>cats and horses (respectively) than they are to eggplants. Both have 
different
>biochemistries than Terran animals, and will probably react differently to 
>tea, coffee, etc.
>
>They will probably _have_ intoxicants, but they will probably not be 
effected
>in the same way by catnip/locoweed/tea/.coffee/buttermilk/tofu as humans.
     
     
Good point Loren.  Coming from such different genetic backgrounds, it is 
quite possible that the above mentioned stimulants and depressants would 
either be deadly poisons or of no effect at all.  However, if they have a 
nervous system at all simular to the Terran variety, they (the plants) might 
affect them just as they do us and other Terrans.
     
     
     
     
- ----------
Received: from Phaser.Showcase.MPGN.com by prague.fabrik.com
        with ESMTP (Fabrik F07.1-000)
        id SINN.4319139@prague.fabrik.com ; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:22:15 -0800
Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)
        by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA12002; 
        Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:19:12 -0500
Received: by lists.MPGN.COM (bulk_mailer v1.5); Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:19:08 -0500

Received: (from majordom@localhost)
        by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA11971 
        for traveller-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:18:56 -0500
X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to 
owner-traveller@lists.MPGN.COM using -f
Received: from Mithril.MPGN.COM (Mithril.MPGN.COM [206.66.87.8])
        by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA11961
        for <traveller@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM>; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:18:45
- -0500
Received: from smtp2.mailsrvcs.net (smtp2.gte.net [207.115.153.31]) by 
Mithril.MPGN.COM (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA23313 for <traveller@MPGN.COM>;
     
Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:18:41 -0500
Received: from default (1Cust164.tnt1.broken-arrow.ok.da.uu.net 
[208.254.16.164])
        by smtp2.mailsrvcs.net  with SMTP id RAA11581
        for <traveller@MPGN.COM>; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:18:17 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <004301bd1fb0$8ecf5720$a410fed0@default> 
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
To: <traveller@mpgn.com>
Subject: Re: Biochemistries
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:19:39 -0600 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 
Sender: owner-traveller@lists.MPGN.COM
Reply-To: traveller@mpgn.com
     
- ----------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:57:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Tony Zbaraschuk <tonyz@eskimo.com>
Subject: Strephon's assassination

Hans Rancke wrote:

>There I disagree. There was no coincidence involved. Read the two stories
>again. Dulinor had arranged for the two princes to be assasinated
>simultaneously (Dulinor must have used up several lifetimes of luck in
>setting up such a complicated operations without someone letting the
>cat out of the bag). The assasination was bungled but gave Lucan the
>opportunity to kill Varian.

It occurs to me that Dulinor must have had inside help, at a fairly
high level, to pull off what he did.

What if that help was Lucan?  Dulinor could have contacted him,
explained that the Imperium needed a New, Better, Younger government,
and convinced Lucan to help him.  He would have explained to Lucan
that once the others were out of the way, it would be clear for Lucan
to take the throne.

Of course, Dulinor is planning to double-cross Lucan and seize the
throne for himself (and if Lucan didn't realize this, then he wasn't
too bright -- but we have a fair amount of evidence that Lucan wasn't
exactly all there upstairs, especially when it came to long-term
political forethought).  So Lucan is monitoring things, realizes
in the middle of affairs that Dulinor is trying to take the throne himself, andtakes
advantage of the opportunity to eliminate his
older brother...


Tony Z

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:37:22 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Biochemistries

By all means let us split hairs...

Valerian (shrub), common name for a family of plants of the teasel order,
and especially for any of various perennial shrubs or herbs of the
representative genus, native to mainly cool, northern temperate regions.

Valerians vary in height from 0.6 to 1.5 m (2 to 5 ft) and have thick,
acrid-smelling roots and either simple or lobed leaves. The small pink or
white flowers grow in dense clusters and are often highly fragrant. The
common valerian, or garden heliotrope, native to Europe and northern Asia,
is cultivated as an ornamental; its roots are the source of a sedative drug.
It is unrelated to true heliotropes.

Scientific classification: Valerians make up the family Valerianaceae. The
representative genus is Valeriana. The common valerian, or garden
heliotrope, is classified as Valeriana officinalis.


>     Valerian is a plant, not exactly a preparation, and its powdered root
>     is the leading over the counter tranquilizer sold in Europe.  Valerian
>     officinalis, officially.  I suppose its just splitting hairs.....
>
>     I often drink an infusion of the root (tea) and it works very well
>     (Laid Back, as SnoopDD would say).
>
>     bird

>Valerian is a medicinal preparation made from the roots of one of a group
of
>medicial plants known as valerians, the best known of which is ^
Heliotrope.
  ^^^^^^^^^
This word should not have been in my original post, please excuse.
Where the single "^" has been inserted above the world Garden should be
added.

Hopefully, this should clear up the matter.  :-)
_______________

I must be Travelling,

Richard
_______________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:50:36 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: A cry for help

help

I remember coming across a webpage with some info on one of these races,
but I can't for the life of me remember who's it was. Can anyone help.

Thank you

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm (general)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/abuse/abuse.htm (sexual abuse pages)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/traveller.htm (Traveller pages)

****************************************************************************
We're digging a hole in the road, you can't go up, you can't go down
you'll have to wait to drive around
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:19:10 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Public Apology

<It would appear this didn't get throught the first time, so I'm
resending. Apologies if it's a repeat>

Folks,
	Several people have suggested I owe Mr. Flores a public apology,
and I agree. My response to his "FCC Modem Tax" warning failed
miserably in its attempt to be a gentle jab, and came across
instead as a public attack and an attempt to humiliate him.

Mr. Flores,
	I apologize for the tone of my response to your email. My
sarcasm, in an attempt to stop the hoax dead in its tracks, went
way over the line, and was uncalled for. I should have simply
pointed out that the information was a hoax, and left it at that.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj
- --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he
establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:55:54 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

> Mr. Flores,
>         I apologize for the tone of my response to your email. My
> sarcasm, in an attempt to stop the hoax dead in its tracks, went
> way over the line, and was uncalled for. I should have simply
> pointed out that the information was a hoax, and left it at that.
> -- Dave Golden     


I'm not so sure it IS a hoax, anymore.  Mercury News service just ran a
story on it today, claiming the same things Mr. Flores said.  When I
first read his message, I promptly emailed the FCC and got this response
:

> This is an automated response to the message you sent to isp@fcc.gov.  We established this mailbox
> for informal comments about usage of the public switched telephone network by Internet access and
> information service providers for a proceeding on this matter in 1997.  
> 
> If you are responding to a message stating that local phone companies have asked the FCC for
> permission to impose per-minute charges for Internet access, please be aware that this information
> is out of date.  The FCC decided in May 1997 NOT to allow imposition of interstate access charges
> on Internet service providers. There is no comment period currently open in this proceeding.

After receiving this response, I too laughed his message off as
mistaken.  Then I read in today's Mercury Silicon Valley News that such
IS the case.  Now I am wondering who is right and who is wrong?

I emailed Patricia Sullivan at Mercury News to ask what was going on,
and where they got their information.
If indeed the FCC is trying to shove everyone off the internet and make
it an exclusive playground for the rich, I'm all for tearing it down. 
If freedom of speech (including the Internet) isn't for everyone, then
it means nothing and is a sad harebringer of things to come in our
stagnant society.  I fully intend to fight this
if true.  No one is taking MY freedom or putting a high price on it. 
Far as I am concerned the FCC is asking for trouble and I'll be happy to
give them some.

Who else feels this way?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:59:56 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: The Assasination

>>     Well the Rebellion Sourcebook says that the Illelish Guard (being from
>>Dulinors Domain) was stocked w/ troops loyal to him and they picked off
>all >of the personal guards while Dulinor took out the Emperor, the
>Empress, the
>>Yerla-whatever ambassador and the Grand Princess.  To top it off, they had
>>all the other guards ammunition substitued w/ dummies (or was it blanks?).
>
>But the IISS Guard?  Simple logic has them drawing ammo from a different
>supply than the Imperial Guard Regiments.  These guys are supposed to be
>the final line of defence for the personage of the Emperor!  It would be a
>damning condemnation of the state of the Imperial Household if security was
>so lax as to allow Dulinor to learn which 12-sophont detail was to be in
>the Throne room that day, along with pictures so the Illelish Guard could
>pick them off.

You wouldn't have to know the exact identity.  I'd expect the Emperor and
Empress to be dead before anyone else reacts and possibly his third shot (at
Iphegenia, but intercepted by the good ol ambassador) too.  The fourth
requires some explaining to me... i don't know, maybe someone froze.  I can
see a good npc as a remnant in my campaign.  Might be completely looney at his
failure.  Maybe he's like Clint Eastwoods character in In the Line of Fire.
He started for her, is knocked out of the way by the Ambassador enroute to his
destiny and then the Illelish Guard are picking off everyone on the Dias
except Dulinor and the heirs (HE has to be the one to kill THEM) the whole
time.  

>
>If I were on that detail, the moment the first shot went off, my first
>thought would be "the Grand Princess is in the room."  Insure the safety of
>the line, since the Emperor has probably been hit already.  Six men grab
>Iphengia and run like hell, while the other six die slowing down Dulinor
>and his men.  Hell, spray the crowd with gunfire if necessary, the
>situation has already gone to absolute shit.
>
>Now there's an interesting alternate..  Empress Iphengia, taking the throne
>as a young woman, and leading a United Imperium against the abortive Second
>Illelish Revolt.

This was discussed in passing in the Rebellion Sourcebook (as u're no doubt
aware).  Of course, the Imperium may well have collapsed anyways.  Just
replace Lucan and his insanity with Iphegenia at first and then the real
Strephon comes back and she welcomes him.  Margaret... who knows.  Her real
character has been revealed already on this list but she may well have stayed
in line.  Brzk?  Probably stays in line too.  Iphegenia and/or Strephon
wouldn't shortsightedly strip the frontiers bare of their fleets.  This would
leave far less to take on Dulinor, giving him time to acquire some legitimacy.
Maybe he makes a truce w/ the Solomani.  Craig gets split up between Illelish
and the Solomani or maybe he survives in a small enclave or escapes to reclaim
his territory later. Domain of Sol ceases to exist. (whatever happened to
Adair anyways?)  Deneb may not be cut off. 
     The Imperium is now facing 2 opponets (Illelish and the Solomani).  Who
knows about tensions w/ the K'kree.  The Zhodani might not like an Imperium
beating the war drums.  Maybe they invade too. If not, it'll probably take a
few years to eventually grind the Illelish away and hold the Solomani, but i
doubt they'll retake Terra w/ Illelish hanging around.   The Hivers make a
deal w/ the Solomani and declare neutrality to avoid attack. They probably
begin manipulating just about everyone.  
       That's how i'd see it going, anyways.  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:25:18 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: A cry for help

help

Ohpps (Andrew goes all red and embarrised)

I remember coming across a webpage with some info on one of these races,
(Suerrat and Genoee)
but I can't for the life of me remember who's it was. Can anyone help.

Thank you

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm (general)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/abuse/abuse.htm (sexual abuse pages)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/traveller.htm (Traveller pages)

****************************************************************************
We're digging a hole in the road, you can't go up, you can't go down
you'll have to wait to drive around
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:43:53 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Re: Question for Marc

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/12/98 09:43 PM

> > I would like to put the entire Traveller previous to T4 on CD Rom. There are
> > some people working on the preliminaries to that project, evaluating
> > practicalities and such.
> >

Tasty. Where do I sign?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:45:19 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

Quite impressive, not everyday some one admits they were wrong, nice to see.

                        cheers,
                                Colin

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:42:37 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

TO:  Faculty of Numerology
     Teloran Theological Institute, Ishag

FR:  Redeye
     Scientific Exchange Group
     Number 15 Xenopolitical Investigative Task Force (Sylea)

DT:  011-0002

RE:  Astropolitical Influences of the Number 4


I am delighted to learn that you, too, have noted the interesting situation
that every integer is the sum of no more than four squares.  So far as we
have been able to determine, this was first conclusively proven by the
Solomani comrade Lagrange.  Interesting, yes?  The very same person who
discovered the stable orbital points so useful in building large space
habitats and other facilities.  Clearly this is not a coincidence.  You
will note that she made the former proof in the Solomani year 1770, and
that the standard Imperial astrography is constructed so as to contain a
coordinate marked 1770 in each sector.  We suggest an immediate armed
reconnaissance of all such locations.

(I'm sure you will agree that Solomani-derived cartography exhibits many
interesting encodings of 4 -- the subsector grid within a sector (4x4 or
4^2 ?), for example -- all of which demand serious analysis.)

The signficance of only one in six of all numbers actually _requiring_ four
squares is unclear to us.  Clearly, 4^n(8m+7) is worthy of further study
and interpretation vis-a-vis the secret patterning of space settlement.

Furthermore, you will note that the probable solution to the "map coloring
problem" (as described by Solomani mathematicians) is four.  To us this
suggests (if proven) that the secular profusion of geopolitical units on
the interstellar map are reducible to four unique and perfectly
noncontiguous power blocs.  Our colleagues [CLASSIFIED], as you might well
imagine.

I must note that your faith (as I am able to understand it at this time)
may neglect to fully account for the ontonumeric properties of _one_.
Consider, for example, the children's game (among us in the Concourse --
your people, too?) of taking any number, forming a new number from the sum
of the squares of its digits, and iterating.  As you know, the sequence
always either lands at 1, or settles into the loop based on 4 (4, 16, 37,
89, 145, 42, 20, 4...).  That is why we in the Concouse [CLASSIFIED] or
until such a time.

Furthermore, as Brocard, another late Solomani comrade, pointed out, n!+1
is a square when n=4 -- that is, 4!+1=5.  Five, yes?  [CLASSIFIED] Guaran
[CLASSIFIED].  Think about it!

Your gift of sulfuric acid bath salts were most appreciated by myself and
other Slimy members of the embassy (though our Sayat comrades did rather
object to its unusually pungent bouquet!), and I hope you will all enjoy
the copper oxide breakfast-cereal flakes which I have taken the liberty of
enclosing.


Enclosure: (1)

tr: Tunngardaya

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:43:46 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

At 07:55 pm 1/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>I'm not so sure it IS a hoax, anymore.  Mercury News service just ran a
>story on it today, claiming the same things Mr. Flores said. When I
>first read his message, I promptly emailed the FCC and got this response

	/* snip */

>After receiving this response, I too laughed his message off as
>mistaken.  Then I read in today's Mercury Silicon Valley News that such
>IS the case.  Now I am wondering who is right and who is wrong?
>
>I emailed Patricia Sullivan at Mercury News to ask what was going on,
>and where they got their information.

	I'll bet you two bits their information came from a similar
place as the original email. FWIW, this hoax has been going
around since 1987, and everyone was up in arms about the attack
on that bastion of information freedom, the dial-up BBS. Anybody
remember those?

	I also contacted the CIAC via email, and they verified it's a
hoax as well.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj
- --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he
establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:18:05 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

 
> stagnant society.  I fully intend to fight this
> if true.  No one is taking MY freedom or putting a high price on it. 
> Far as I am concerned the FCC is asking for trouble and I'll be happy to
> give them some.
> 
> Who else feels this way?
 
Um, not me. It's your _right_ to have the phone company pay for your
access to the traveller mailing list?  Come again? Or is it just
that you want the people that use the phone for a total of an hour
or two a week to make up the slack for our tying up the phones lines
for hours a day on the net?

The lines have been subsidized (for consumers) by business for
years. All this was based on some average usage (typical call lasts
for so many minutes, people make so many calls per day, etc.). Business
customers pay about twice as much for their service to make rates
cheaper for people in the sticks. It needn't be that way now, but it
stuck. Now you've got people tying up a line all the time and they expect 
to pay the same amount as my grandmother who makes maybe a call a day
for 10 minutes?

They should charge us all _more_ and charge people who use the phone
as a phone _less_ IMHO. I wouldn't use the net nearly as much if I
was paying for it by the minute, but I don't consider the internet
as a requirement for existance, either. Using the "then only the
rich can use the net" arguement is silly---by definition anybody with 
a grand or two to spend on a computer isn't missing any meals (and if 
they are they should've spent their couple grand on food instead of a
computer).

Just my Cr0.07/min :-),

Merrick

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2223
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, January 13 1998     Volume 1997 : Number 2224



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Public Apology
Re: Public Apology
Re: Question for Marc
Re: Public Apology
Re: Droyne as PC's? 
Re: Public Apology
Re: Public Apology
Re: Public Apology
Not the IG Website
Fall of RoM
TL9 Big PAW 
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2223
Re: TL9 Big PAW
Tainted Atmospheres
After the Assassination?
Trade Stations and Red crew/Blue crew
re: The Assasination
Core Sector Geography
Re: The Assasination
Re: Biochemistries

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:28:54 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

>         I'll bet you two bits their information came from a similar
> place as the original email. FWIW, this hoax has been going
> around since 1987, and everyone was up in arms about the attack
> on that bastion of information freedom, the dial-up BBS. Anybody
> remember those?


Well Dave, the only reason I'm wondering is because Silicon Valley News
while not 'big', isn't a tabloid either.  I'd think they would have
their information correct before publishing?

Anyway, I'm still waiting for a response from them.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:41:38 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

J-Man wrote:

[snip apology]

> I'm not so sure it IS a hoax, anymore.  Mercury News service just ran a
> story on it today, claiming the same things Mr. Flores said.  When I
> first read his message, I promptly emailed the FCC and got this response

[snip]

> After receiving this response, I too laughed his message off as
> mistaken.  Then I read in today's Mercury Silicon Valley News that such
> IS the case.  Now I am wondering who is right and who is wrong?

This is the same news service that *admitted* to being totally suckered by the
CIA created the Crack market in California, isn't it?  (thats rhetorical, they
did).

> I emailed Patricia Sullivan at Mercury News to ask what was going on,
> and where they got their information.

I hope you get a response to your query.  Too many news reports aren't investigated or challenged in
such a straightforward manner.  Kudos to you.

> If indeed the FCC is trying to shove everyone off the internet and make
> it an exclusive playground for the rich, I'm all for tearing it down.

I don't see how anyone can believe this, at least with regard to motive.  The net is a tool for
commerce.  The rich get richer by making it cheap and easy.  While I agree that the Telcos' profit
motive might finagle its way into some form of excise, that is the way of commerce.  They'll charge what
the market can bear, if they are allowed to, but the market pressures are likely to keep that extremely
low.  Hell, most big city telcos already have hidden charges per minute for even local calls outside of
your closest exchanges.

Plus, many government departments don't want to see any such scheme established.
The National Telecommunications and Information Administration is part of the Department of Commerce and
is dedicated to *not* regulating the internet until there is a demonstrated need.  Larry Irving, the
adminstrator for that organization, was on CSPAN this weekend making a vociferous case for not
regulating without a demonstrated harm and explaining how the growth of the internet has helped american
business.  His tone was very interesting.  He seemed to have a sincere distaste for Telcos and others
wanting regulations, calling them and their lawyers "K Street Boys" and the "Briefcase Boys."  He showed
how the NTIA's efforts at keeping the internet deregulated were helping the "Blue Jeans Boys."  So, even
if the FCC hoax/ non-hoax, whatever, can be believed, all of the government agencies aren't on the samge
page (which I think is a good thing in this context).


> If freedom of speech (including the Internet) isn't for everyone, then
> it means nothing and is a sad harebringer of things to come in our
> stagnant society.  I fully intend to fight this
> if true.  No one is taking MY freedom or putting a high price on it.
> Far as I am concerned the FCC is asking for trouble and I'll be happy to
> give them some.
>
> Who else feels this way?

Well, no one wants to pay more than they have to, but capitalism, i.e., "Free" trade, is based on
charging as much as you can get.  If the FCC decides to let the Telcos make a little more, sure no one
supports that, and no one will unless and until the Telcos can demonstrate the real financial need.  And
since that just aint gonna happen, I don't think you have to worry about your freedom being taken away
from you.  Not. Much.


Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:40:09 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Question for Marc

In a message dated 98-01-12 23:54:20 EST, you write:

<<Tasty. Where do I sign?>>

No place to sign. Just be patient.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:08:43 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

> They should charge us all _more_ and charge people who use the phone
> as a phone _less_ IMHO. I wouldn't use the net nearly as much if I
> was paying for it by the minute, but I don't consider the internet
> as a requirement for existance, either. Using the "then only the
> rich can use the net" arguement is silly---by definition anybody with 
> a grand or two to spend on a computer isn't missing any meals (and if 
> they are they should've spent their couple grand on food instead of a
> computer).
> 
> Just my Cr0.07/min :-),
> 
> Merrick
> 


Well I may not be very cognizant of phone billing policy, but upping the
'ante' on Internet usage
may very well price me out of the ballpark.  You may be for "by the
minute" surcharges like when you make long-distance calls but I am not. 
It's that very surcharge that keeps me from making them at all.

Also, you may not think the internet is necessary for most, and likely
you are right.  However I do some of my business on the Web, and in the
future will be doing more.  The Internet has allowed me to do things I
could not have done in the small town I live in.

I did spend a small fortune on my computer, but have done so over the
past 3 years.  Because I don't have a lot of money to spend I have
painstakenly put together my system using my tax returns.  So to me,
"only the rich" is not a silly arguement.  If they do make it charge by
the minute, I'll have to stop using the Internet.
As you say, "(and if they are they should've spent their couple grand on
food instead of a computer)."

Very true.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:07:10 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: Re: Droyne as PC's? 

Well, I managed to get my CT books back! It's been 4 years since I loaned
them out... oh, how I missed them.
The book with the droyne was Twilight's Peak.

On another subject from a while back. There was discussion about the effects
of a black globe used while in Jump. If I remember, it was decided that
something terrible would happen to the ship (destruction, misjump, etc.)
After re-reading my CT books I came across a paragraph describing black
globes. (I believe it was in starship book #3) Anyways, it mentioned ships
coming out of jump with their black globes on. Is this an oversight in the
writing of the book or is it actually possible to have a black globe on
while in jump?


>I wish I could give you the info, but like I said, I let a friend of mine
>borrow my CT books... I've been trying to get them back for over a year
>now... I think they may be lost forever. The book went into all the details
>of creating a droyne, including the coyne ceremonies. If I ever get the
>books back, or I manage to replace them, I'll let you know.
>
>
>>Mr. Electric Stitch or anyone have how to make a Droyne Pc?
>>Anything that could be used for T4 in a format like the K'kree
>>post?
>
>>Please!
>
>>Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:31:32 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

> I hope you get a response to your query.  Too many news reports aren't investigated or challenged
> in
> such a straightforward manner.  Kudos to you.


Well so many on this list have been adamant about this being a hoax, and
all things being equal, Occam's Razor is in full effect here.  The only
reason I give the rumour any credence is, as you say, "but capitalism,
i.e., "Free" trade, is based on charging as much as you can get.".  This
is most certainly true, and GREED will always play a big part in
commerce.  That seems only 'human'.

Thank you for your informative message.  I wasn't aware of some of that
stuff.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 23:36:18 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

 
> Also, you may not think the internet is necessary for most, and likely
> you are right.  However I do some of my business on the Web, and in the
> future will be doing more.  The Internet has allowed me to do things I
> could not have done in the small town I live in.

I use the net ofr commerce as well, but that's a business expense
and either comes out of the revenues or you don't have a real
business (I'm dancing on the edge of this myself :-). In any case
unless you really need to be online a lot, your web site can still
collect orders, or tell clients about what you do regardless of the
phone rates (some cheaper solution would appear anyway, so this is
moot :-). In that case all you need to do is dump your mail a few
times a day---shouldn't cost very much even long-distance.
 
Ob Traveller (forgot last time!):
What might data transfer cost in the Imperium? What about Imperium
Express, would it survive?

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:53:13 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

> Ob Traveller (forgot last time!):
> What might data transfer cost in the Imperium? What about Imperium
> Express, would it survive?
> 
> -Merrick


It was my understanding that the Xpress boat network was wiped out by
the VIRUS.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:59:54 -0600
From: "vanya" <vanya@partyline.net>
Subject: Not the IG Website

The latest updates to the Not the IG Website are up:

Links to Wildstarr's QSDS, the RPSC, and Bruce's Definitive sensor rules.

Thanks guys!


- -Vanya                                         UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ---------------- Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future
Meyers-Briggs personality type:ENTJ          | vanya@partyline.net
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." | dmoody@bridge.com
Visit Not the IG Website- http://www.stl-online.net/vanya/default.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:35:48
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Fall of RoM

>From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
>Subject: The Fall of the Rule Of Man, some questions and ideas
>
>I'm currently about a third of the way through Dune (the original novel) for
>the nth time after seeing the movie and having it perk my interest again.
>So, what does this have to do with Traveller, you ask? Well the novel is a
>very rich source for information on the long distance control of an
>interstellar empire without FTL commo, if you read between the lines, and it
>has made me think about the fall of the 2nd Empire.
>
>There was a short lived thread on the list a while back about the break
>apart of the ROM and I would like to see it restarted. Basically, as i
>remeber it, it discussed the rules of succession in the ROM and how the
>Emperors councillors may have broken up into warring factions over the
>succession. How CANON is this idea? Relating some of this to the Dune story
>line, what does the list think the chances were that some of the Great
>Houses (to use the Dune term) went "renegade" during the struggles for
>power? Tearing off into the unknown with their technology and retainers to
>set up Pocket Empires in non-Imperial Space. Would you expect these PE's to
>retain and even improve on the 2I base tehlevel? If they did miss the Long
>Night, about what tech level would they be expected to be at by M:0? Where
>is the most likely place for these PE's to be found?
>

Based on a trip to my local AAB for consultation with Ancient Mysteries of
Past Imperiums (viz Peter's *sob* complete-but-for-Hivers collection of
Aliens modules), this was more-or-less what happened with the Darrians, the
Sword Worlders and the area that later became the Julian
Confederation/League of Antares, except that it was Solomani corporate
interests, rather than nobles per se.

If they do improve their RoM TL from 12 up to 13, then there are Canon
problems IMO, because this technology would "leak" back into the 3rd
Imperium, which contacted all these societies at a fairly early date (yeah,
yeah, I know the Darrians made TL16, but then they blew up their sun by
accident and things went downhill for a long while). The Imperium would
then reverse-engineer or have a target to aim at, and thus raise their TL
faster. 

Generally, the RoM's TL of 12 was as good as it got anywhere until year 350
or so.

There are people, notably Leroy Gautney, who disagree and claim the RoM
achieved a higher level of technology (ie general 14, 15 in some fields).

A compromise position is the RoM had a general TL of 12, and a TL of 14 in
medicine, robotics and genetic engineering, while the Third Imperium was
one TL behind it's "norm" in these fields due to social pressures against
these technologies.

>What information is out there about the ROM? I have none of the MetaTrav
>books, how much and what books contain, information partaining to the fall
>of the ROM? Is there anyone else out there working in this millieu?

The "canon" description of why the RoM fell was economic collapse as the
Terrans stuffed up 8000 years of careful Vilani imperial management with
newfangled technologies, techniques and methods of orginisation. The
"keystone" event was in -1776 when the RoM central trasury disallowed on of
the subsiduary mint's currency issues. This caused a collapsed of
interstellar trade etc etc

Me, I dont think this would have been enough to explain the collapse. Even
also given a disintegration of the delicate Vilani web of trade and
maintainence relationships (anyone else think the Vilani Empire was a
feudal technocracy that maintained tight central control on starships and
fusion drive manufacture and maintainence ?), such a financial collapse
wont kick you into a Long Night.

It'll hurt, but as long as you have TL8/9 contragravity you can easily get
out of gravity wells, and a single TL9 A starport world can build enough
starships to keep quite a lot of trade going at a low level. Lo-tech
low-thrust drives and Hohmann transfer orbits will allow access to system
resources, even at TL8, assuming access to some contragravity.

I suspect that the historians and propagandists of the early Third Imperium
painted the Long Night as blacker than it actually was - I suspect that
whilst interstellar trade and contact would have fallen by 90-95%, it still
happened throughout the Long Night.

Assuming a jump-2 TL11 ship that needs maintainence every 52 weeks, that
means you can jump out for 26 weeks before having to come back to your base
for maintainence. At a jump every 12 days, this translates to about 30
parsecs. With a B starport at the other end, that means you can be 60
parsecs between depots.

What would do it is a secular increase in misjump chances to, say, 3% per
jump. This means a lethal misjump is a probability every 10 years which
leads to much shorter horizons for ship repayment and a higher salaries for
spacers to compensate them for this risk. 

>
>Thanks for listeming
>Mike Peters@Comten.com
>

Thanks for raising the issue.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:41:12
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: TL9 Big PAW 

TL9 4096 Megajoule (DV 160) PAW

64 m long, 8 m diameter, with a 300 000km beam pointer

Crew is 16, assuming a CM 0.5 computer (which is as good as it gets at TL9)

Area 50.27 m2, volume 5392 m3 (386 dt), 7317t, MCr 529

Power demand is 1024 megawatts per second, assuming one shot every 20 seconds.

Theoretical effective range is 386 000 km.

This is a decent weapon. It has enough crunch power to intimidate most
ships, as well as the range to be effective.

For what it's worth, by my numbers the MCr 529 is essentially the annual
income of 50 000 people at TL9 (Striker, First Ed, book 2). Assuming 3%
military spending, it means it takes approximatly 1.5 million TL9 taxpayers
to fund one of these.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:39:47
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2223

>From: Tony Zbaraschuk <tonyz@eskimo.com>
>Subject: Strephon's assassination
>
>Hans Rancke wrote:
>
>
>It occurs to me that Dulinor must have had inside help, at a fairly
>high level, to pull off what he did.
>
>What if that help was Lucan?  Dulinor could have contacted him,
>explained that the Imperium needed a New, Better, Younger government,
>and convinced Lucan to help him.  He would have explained to Lucan
>that once the others were out of the way, it would be clear for Lucan
>to take the throne.
>

Neat theory, but Lucan was, in effect, both the third-string quarterback
and not that smart.

I doubt he had the contacts to do what Dulinor (an Imperial Archduke and
good mate of the Emperor) couldnt do.

Me, I'd suspect the Imperial Chaimberlain, the Naval Chief of Staff and so
on. I wonder, were any of them in on it, and if so who was planning to
double-cross Dulinor ?

On the other hand, what if Dulinor had Varian as the inside man ?

In any case, Dulinor's flight was IMO an admission of illegitimacy. He had
to stay, and win a Moot vote by whatever means, or risk Lucan, Margaret or
whoever getting the Imperium-wide legitimacy that Moot ratification brings.

Once he fled, the coup had failed, and the Second Iliesh Revolt was on.

>Of course, Dulinor is planning to double-cross Lucan and seize the
>throne for himself (and if Lucan didn't realize this, then he wasn't
>too bright -- but we have a fair amount of evidence that Lucan wasn't
>exactly all there upstairs, especially when it came to long-term
>political forethought).  So Lucan is monitoring things, realizes
>in the middle of affairs that Dulinor is trying to take the throne
himself, andtakes
>advantage of the opportunity to eliminate his
>older brother...
>

On the other hand, Tony, we may have been studying that ten-volume set of
Kzinti Succession Procedures Part One too much ...

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 01:02:13 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: TL9 Big PAW

What the heck does PAW stand for?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 05:03:13 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Tainted Atmospheres

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/13/98 05:03 AM

<<
Has anyone constructed a table to randomly generate the type of taint which
plagues a planet? (Please forgive me if this has been covered in either
World
Tamers or World Builders. I don't have either book.)
If this topic hasn't been discussed elsewhere, please let me know what you
think.
>>
I think there was one in JTAS a long time ago - Special Supplement 2,
Atmospheres or some such.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:50:32 -0000
From: "Justin Durkan" <jdurkan@iol.ie>
Subject: After the Assassination?

Hi Folks,

    My group play MT and none of us have any of the materials published
after MT. I too am looking forward to T4.1. Anyway, what I was wondering is,
is there a history of the Imperium and surrounding space available as a net
resourse for the time after the civil war begins. I'm setting a campaign
that begins before the assassination but progresses through the beginning of
the civil war. What I need to know is what events must I include to avoid
invalidating canon and also what event must not occur. I heard in some posts
that Strephon's double was the actual victim, but this and other events I
need confirmed.

Thank you.

PS. Thankls to all who replied regarding my earlier request for NPC's. They
were very helpful. One up for the TML!

/JD

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:54:35
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Trade Stations and Red crew/Blue crew

What are peoples views on how much it would cost to rent office and
warehouse space in a starport ?

What I am thinking of is bending the economics rules in the latest THUDD -
namely, do the route as written *but* have a trade station on each planet,
with the plan being the ship jumps in, meets up with the on-planet broker
who gives them the new speculative cargo, collects their old one, and then
spends a week selling it while the ship is doing it's job travelling
between the stars.

The cycle then repeats at each planet, with the idea being to avoid having
this big expensive asset sitting on the tarmac/in orbit as much as possible.

I figure with such a system you would be able to have a 24 hour turnaround,
thus making the average trip time 10 days rather than 15.

This will do wonderful things to profitability.

I am figuring a on-planet Factor would get paid say Cr 5000 a month, and
the office and warehouse space would cost a similar amount - maybe twice
this at an A starport, 75% at a C starport, 50% at a D and at an E he is
the facility.

What do people think ?

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:14:34 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: The Assasination

TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com> wrote:

>You wouldn't have to know the exact identity.  I'd expect the Emperor and
>Empress to be dead before anyone else reacts and possibly his third shot (at
>Iphegenia, but intercepted by the good ol ambassador) too.  The fourth
>requires some explaining to me... i don't know, maybe someone froze.  I can
>see a good npc as a remnant in my campaign.  Might be completely looney at his
>failure.  Maybe he's like Clint Eastwoods character in In the Line of Fire.
>He started for her, is knocked out of the way by the Ambassador enroute to his
>destiny and then the Illelish Guard are picking off everyone on the Dias
>except Dulinor and the heirs (HE has to be the one to kill THEM) the whole
>time.

Nice idea..

>     The Imperium is now facing 2 opponets (Illelish and the Solomani).  Who
>knows about tensions w/ the K'kree.  The Zhodani might not like an Imperium
>beating the war drums.  Maybe they invade too.

I doubt it - the various sources on the Zhodani make it clear the Frontier
Wars were in fact wars to contain the Imperium. Remember, until the Empress
Wave the Consulate's borders are stable.

>If not, it'll probably take a
>few years to eventually grind the Illelish away and hold the Solomani, but i
>doubt they'll retake Terra w/ Illelish hanging around.   The Hivers make a
>deal w/ the Solomani and declare neutrality to avoid attack.

Aside from the manipulation aspect, why should the Hive get involved at
all? And why should the Solomani risk provoking them especially as they
control at least double the space of the Confederation.

>       That's how i'd see it going, anyways.

I'd disagree with some of your conclusions - eg Daibei. Dulinor will take
time to crush but he will be crushed. If Strephon survived (or there was a
legitimate heir backed by the Moot) the Solomani would probably terminate
their offensive after retaking Terra as the moderates in the Council would
not want to go toe to toe.

Additionally, the Old Expanses fleet may well have been left in place by a
sane heir who listened to military advisers. Daibei can be resupplied
through Diaspora, especially as I assume that Margaret would not split off
from the Imperium if there was a legitimate heir backed by the Moot. You
are talking a period of years to contain the revolt but the Industrial
might of the Imperium should win.

Incidentally, what if the Imperium trades Terra for Solomani peace?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:08:32 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Core Sector Geography

Hi all,

I've just been going through the Core sector data in M0 in detail, and
although I know that the text differs from the First Survey data, here are
the results of what I've found so far....

Chanestin Kingdom (-1304 to 2)

Location	Systems
1938	Keshi

25 other worlds within 5 parsecs of Keshi - suggest the following

1538
1539
1635
1638
1736 ***PROBLEM - SEE FOLLOWING***
1737
1738
1739
1836 ***PROBLEM - SEE FOLLOWING***
1837
1838
1839
1840
1938	KESHI - CAPITAL OF CK
2034
2036
2038
2040
2135
2136
2138
2139
2140
+2 others in sector to Rimward

(Note there is a second Keshi at 0816 but this seems to correspond to the
heart of the Interstellar Confederacy)

The problem worlds are Santry and Cordova...

Interstellar Confederacy (-684 to -1)

Location	World
0622	Sketola (Capital)
0812	Protalus
0714	Marsus
1524	Fr'now (I assume this is the F'now refered to on page 10)
1116	Kelpo (I assume this is also the Keplo refered to on page 10,
Capital after-239)
0905	Oorpic
1317	Belicose
0916	Heraldia
1316	Shibasiim
1120	Eorvin
0112	Ye-Lu

I could not find Velpare in the sector listing.

Note the IC should contain 32 worlds by -623

Note the position of Sketola compared to the other powerhouses of the IC
(Marsus and Protalus) 9 parsecs as the crow flys(!!!!) and 12 or 14 by
fastest J2 route (and 6 jumps). A more logical location for the capital
would be obtained if Sketola was in 0612.

The Santry/Cordova cluster

1736	Santry
1836	Cordova

These are in the middle of the Chanestin Kingdom's cluster, which I would
argue means that it would be swamped and fall during the Chanestin/Sylean
wars.

- ---

So has anyone come up with fixes to match the text to the data?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:55:57 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: The Assasination

Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote:

>I've never thought about it before, but you're right. The issue should have
>been addressed. I don't think the IISS guards could necessarily have saved
>Iphegenia -- it dosen't take long to fire three shots -- but Dulinor could
>not have felt at all confident of surviving unless the IISS guards had
>somehow been dealt with. (Come to think about it, wouldn't there be a
>risk of other High Nobles (with ceremonial guns) being present?

I'm sure I read *somewhere* in the MT material (be it TD/MTJ or a DGP/GDW
book) that Dulinor had requested a private audience and the Aslan
ambassador was asked to stay behind by Strephon. I may be wrong though.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:07:11 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Biochemistries

On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Richard A. Flores wrote:

> 
> Good point Loren.  Coming from such different genetic backgrounds, it is
> quite possible that the above mentioned stimulants and depressants would
> either be deadly poisons or of no effect at all.  However, if they have a
> nervous system at all simular to the Terran variety, they (the plants) might
> affect them just as they do us and other Terrans.
> 
I agree with that - different evolutionary backgrounds, different
biochemistry. Biochem is that complex, I know that, I studied some of it.
But some similarities have to be kept: All life as we know it in the
Traveller Universe uses biochemistry. And, as found in the Astrochemistry,
some amino and nucleic acids have a) been found in space and b) could be
made by only choosing the proposed conditions on pre-age earth.
So those little molecules should exist on quite a lot of worlds.
So even Aslan, K'Kree and Hiver could use parts of the same nucleic acids
for their DNA and make proteins from amino acids, only the transkriptase
will work in an other way. Who knows if Yaskoydray took aout some of his
DNA and put it into human- (and vargr-)kind?
So, what I want to say, as those little molecules are likely to exist on
other worlds, and life is based on little ones as on the macromolecules,
they will also have effects on alien life. That these effects are very
different, I agree, will be right. Think again of the shown molecules:

> >> Coffee - coffeine
> >> Tea    - teine
> >> Cacao  - theobromine
> >> Chocl. - theophylline

If you examine their chemical structure, you will find similarities, as
these are derivatives of one another. The alkaloids are such a big class
of molecules that all have effects on human life. So why wouldn't they on
aliens, too?

Ok, we can discuss that on and on. That's why I asked for more molecules.

L.A.

P.S. The resemblance of Aslan - Cats I think comes from the oftern used
feline aliens in the SF. You don't want to say you didn't think of lions,
when you invented this race for Traveller, did you?

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2224
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, January 13 1998     Volume 1997 : Number 2225



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Geonee Information
Droyne as PC's?
Re: Move over, Sayat machine translators!
Re: Public Apology
[Fwd: Schneeballschlacht]
Re: Public Apology
Re: Re[2]: Biochemistries
Re: Public Apology
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
Re: QSDS
Re: Public Apology
Re: After the Assassination?
After the Assasination
Starport offices
Biochemistries, Part III
Re: Public Apology
RE: Trade Stations

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 06:18:16 -0600
From: Scott Galliand <galliand@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Geonee Information

I had the site that was hosting Carlos Alos-Ferrer's Geonee Online
Sourcebook.  Unfortunately, I recently switched ISPs and I have not had the
chance to put the information back up on the web yet.  I hope to do so in
the near future.

In the meantime, you might want to contact Carlos himself for the info.
His address, if I copied it properly here, is 

Carlos.Alos-Ferrer@univie.ac.at

Scott Galliand

Scott Galliand
Systems Analyst, Systems Engineering and Management Associates, Inc.
E-mail : galliand@ix.netcom.com
WWW : http://www.io.com/~galliand/  (NOT BACK ONLINE YET)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:50:49 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Droyne as PC's?

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/13/98 12:50 PM

<<
On another subject from a while back. There was discussion about the
effects
of a black globe used while in Jump. If I remember, it was decided that
something terrible would happen to the ship (destruction, misjump, etc.)
After re-reading my CT books I came across a paragraph describing black
globes. (I believe it was in starship book #3) Anyways, it mentioned ships
coming out of jump with their black globes on. Is this an oversight in the
writing of the book or is it actually possible to have a black globe on
while in jump?
>>

Black globes didn't appear in CT until Book 5 (OK, Adventure 1 if you want
to get picky). There's a reference in some later work (TNE Regency
Sourcebook?) to black globed ships emerging from jump, coasting up on an
unsuspecting planet which could only detect them by stellar occultation,
and frying them with meson fire. Can't remember if they had to exit jump
before switching the globes on.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 04:11:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Move over, Sayat machine translators!

In mail you write:

> Craig Berry wrote:
>
> Yep.  We were playing with this one over on the TravLang list... well, we
> were abusing it, technically.  Well, I was, anyway.
>
> Try doing English -> Portuguese -> French -> English of some of the
> delightful prose on alt.sex.*.  Definite nasal Pepsi eruption material.

Sounds like a *bad* porn novel I kept because it was *so* bad. They
rather obviously took a story that was hetero and converted it to
"lesbian" by using global search and replace. With *no* further
editing... This makes for stuff that has to be seen to be believed!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 04:21:59 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Public Apology

In mail you write:

> The lines have been subsidized (for consumers) by business for
> years. All this was based on some average usage (typical call lasts
> for so many minutes, people make so many calls per day, etc.). Business
> customers pay about twice as much for their service to make rates
> cheaper for people in the sticks. It needn't be that way now, but it
> stuck. Now you've got people tying up a line all the time and they expect 
> to pay the same amount as my grandmother who makes maybe a call a day
> for 10 minutes?

On the other hand, it has been shown that the *incremental* cost* of
added usage is just about nil. That is, since we are mostly (ab)using
the lines *outside* business hours, we aren't affecting the required
amount of equipment.

Remember, the line between your computer and the phone switch is
*dedicated (except in a *very* small number of cases). So it costs the
same whether you use it or not.

The resources in the switch tend to either be essentially dedicated
(like your line) or to be dependent on the *rate* at which calls are
made (line finders, for example). That is, they get used for a bit at
the start and end of a call, and not at all *during* it. We certainly
aren't hurting *those*. And there are resources that depend on the
number of *simultaneous* calls, that is, the number of calls currently
in progress. These are mostly line cards and interoffice trunks.

But, as I noted above, the peak number of calls is still during the
business day, not "after hours" when we are essentially using the
"spare" capacity required to handle the *peak* call volume during the
day.

Our "long calls" *aren't* costing extra. But the LECs sure would like
to be able to *charge* extra. 

> They should charge us all _more_ and charge people who use the phone
> as a phone _less_ IMHO. I wouldn't use the net nearly as much if I
> was paying for it by the minute, but I don't consider the internet
> as a requirement for existance, either. Using the "then only the
> rich can use the net" arguement is silly---by definition anybody with 
> a grand or two to spend on a computer isn't missing any meals (and if 
> they are they should've spent their couple grand on food instead of a
> computer).

The system I'm using at the moment has exactly *three* parts that I paid
*any* money for. One is the keyboard, it's from a system I bought back
when I made more money. I could easily swap it out for one of the ones
I've been given. The second is the SCSI card. I paid about $50 for it
in 1992. The third is the modem. It's a 14.4 and I paid $20 for it a
couple of years back. 

I'm running a 386DX40, 20 meg of RAM, with a 640meg HD and 350 meg HD,
VGA (VGA mono monitor). 

And the *software* I'm using at the moment was free as well. I'm
running OpenDOS, and some freeware uucp software and a freeware
newsreader. 

I know a *lot* of folks with mail/news access to the net who couldn't
*begin* to afford a grand from their computer. One of the reasons I
have so much donated stuff is because I help put systems together for
low income folks. So I get given a lot of "obsolete" computer gear.

And most of those low income folks get their access via a BBS I help
run. The uucp link for that system is donated by an ISP I know. 

"Per minute" charges would kill *all* of that.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:42:31 +0100
From: "V.A.G" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: [Fwd: Schneeballschlacht]

Received: from SpoolDir by URT-STUD (Mercury 1.32); 12 Jan 98 20:27:02 MET
Return-path: <arctic@pool.informatik.rwth-aachen.de> 
Received: from rzmail.uni-trier.de (136.199.8.220) by urt-stud.uni-trier.de (Mercury 1.32) with ESMTP;
    12 Jan 98 20:25:46 MET
Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by rzmail.uni-trier.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02438 for <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:25:46 +0100 (CET)
Received: from fornost (s3m026.dialup.RWTH-Aachen.DE)
 by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V5.1-10 #23726)
 with SMTP id <01ISAW6OVI8I8WW7G4@mail.rwth-aachen.de> for
 GREI5001@uni-trier.de; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:26:01 +0100
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:24:27 +0100
From: Frank Meinecke <arctic@pool.informatik.rwth-aachen.de>
Subject: Schneeballschlacht
X-Sender: arctic@poolmail.informatik.rwth-aachen.de
To: Stephan Ehren <Stephan.Ehren@data-sciences.de>, hagen@faho.rwth-aachen.de,
        frankj@xs4all.nl, GREI5001@uni-trier.de,
        brandes@heini.fbbwu.fh-lueneburg.de, srieger@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de,
        ur02@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de
Message-id: <3.0.32.19980112192422.0093d380@poolmail.informatik.rwth-aachen.de>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32)
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Gotcha!
 
 it's the first snowball fight of the season.  Consider yourself hit.
 
                      snowballsnowball
                  snowballsnowballsnowball
              snowballsnowballsnowballsnowball
          snowballsnowballsn-EI-llsnowballsnowball
         snowballsnowballs-EISKER-nowballsnowballsn
        snowballsnowballs-EISKERNE-wballsnowballsnow
       snowballsnowballs-EISKERNEIS-allsnowballsnowba
       snowballsnowball-EISKERNEISKE-llsnowballsnowba
       snowballsnowball-EISKERNEISKE-llsnowballsnowba
       snowballsnowballs-EISKERNEIS-allsnowballsnowba
        snowballsnowballs-EISKERNE-wballsnowballsnow
         snowballsnowballs-EISKER-nowballsnowballsn
          snowballsnowballsn-EI-llsnowballsnowball
              snowballsnowballsnowballsnowball
                  snowballsnowballsnowball
                      snowballsnowball
 
 You are now involved in an e-mail snowball fight.  Send this to
 all your friends and relatives.  Have fun with it.  Remember in an
 online snowball fight no one gets hurt and no one gets cold and
 soaking wet.
 
 --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 04:42:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Public Apology

Latest infoi I've heard is that there *isn't* a "modem tax" in the
works, but that the FCC *is* solicting comments on a couple of issues
that could be *confused* with that. 

One is letting the LECs (local phone companies) charge ISPs the same
fees that are charged IXCs (long distance carriers) for connecting to
them. This is something like 3.5 cents a minute per line. (That's why
you don't see LD rates dropping much anymore, the IXC has to pay the
LEC at *each* end of the call 3.5 cents a minute. Which means that if
they charged *nothing* the bill would be 7 cents/minute).

I can't recall the details of the other, but it has to do with applying
some regulations that normally only apply to phone companies to ISPs.

Ask the FCC for info about the "public comments being solicited
regarding regulations regasrding ISPs". 

Note that they are *not* even at the rule making stage. They are jusat
trying to find out what the public thinks about the subject. In other
words, doing some "fact finding" before deciding *if* they want to
write some rules.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 04:14:58 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Biochemistries

In mail you write:

>      Valerian is a plant, not exactly a preparation, and its powdered root 
>      is the leading over the counter tranquilizer sold in Europe.  Valerian 
>      officinalis, officially.  I suppose its just splitting hairs.....
>      
>      I often drink an infusion of the root (tea) and it works very well 
>      (Laid Back, as SnoopDD would say).

It should! Valerian is the basis for *valium*, a rather well known
tranquilizer. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 07:24:50 -0600 (CST)
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

Even big newspapers get their info wrong.  I wince just about any time
I read or watch news about something I'm very familiar with.  Just
because it was in the news doesn't mean that it's even that likely to
be true...  it's a scary thought.

Bolie IV


On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, J-Man wrote:

> >         I'll bet you two bits their information came from a similar
> > place as the original email. FWIW, this hoax has been going
> > around since 1987, and everyone was up in arms about the attack
> > on that bastion of information freedom, the dial-up BBS. Anybody
> > remember those?
> 
> 
> Well Dave, the only reason I'm wondering is because Silicon Valley News
> while not 'big', isn't a tabloid either.  I'd think they would have
> their information correct before publishing?
> 
> Anyway, I'm still waiting for a response from them.
> 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 04:51:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

The message below was found as an unauthorized inclusion in a Sayat
diplomatic pouch. Origin of inclusion unknown.

The last line seems to be a closing. Meaning unclear. The placement of
the numeral at the boottom seems to indicate it is intended as a
signature. Again, significance, unknown.

The message was printed on a cellulose based material (paper) with a
"watermark" image that has been identified as a primitive Solomani
vehicle known as a "bicycle". Again, significance is unknown.

TO:   Redeye
      Scientific Exchange Group
      Number 15 Xenopolitical Investigative Task Force (Sylea)

RE:  Your communication of 011-0002

> Furthermore, you will note that the probable solution to the "map coloring
> problem" (as described by Solomani mathematicians) is four.  To us this
> suggests (if proven) that the secular profusion of geopolitical units on
> the interstellar map are reducible to four unique and perfectly
> noncontiguous power blocs.  Our colleagues [CLASSIFIED], as you might well
> imagine.

The four color theorem was proven sometime in the last two decades of
the 20th century (Solomani reckoning). I don't have the references
handy to pin it down any closer than probably being in the period 1985
to 1995.

Be seeing you!

#1

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:13:51 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: QSDS

>Does anyone have a copy of this available? All of the links I've been
>able to find have expired.

Found It!

try; http://users.qrc.com/~wildstar/traveller/

My previous links were out of date too.  It seems Wildstar is in the
process of refitting his web pages, but he was nice enough to put just QSDS
and RPSC up for download (Thanks Wildstar!).

Pete


Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:01:53 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

Long off topic rant/

Uhhh the Mercury News has been known to be wrong before...IIRC that's the
paper that published the now-discredited CIA-Contras-Crack story.

The per-minute charges that the telcos wanted were essentially a
bargaining ploy to get the favorable stuff they got in the 1996
Telecommunications Bill, like being able to get into the long distance
business, while still maintaining their local monopolies. That one's up in
front of the Supreme Court real soon now.

There are constant rumblings from the telcos to the FCC that they want
ISP's declared common carriers, like the Long Distance companies, which
brings ISP's into a whole new ballgame of regulation and fees such as the 
universal access rules (one reason the Govt allows those  filthy telco
monopolies in the first place).

Unfortunately, they'll have a REALLY hard time with this argument in front
of the FCC because, unlike long distance companies, who tie into the local
telcos at the customer level, all an ISP is is a business line customer.
They rent phone lines from the telcos like any other business. If the
telcos get ISPs declared common carriers, _any_ business that rents a
bunch of lines to provide end user services to us suckers  errr.. local
 telco customers could be declared such. 

It doesn't matter if the company is providing me digital access, camping
gear from LL Bean or phone sex, all of them operate on the same business
model. I have to call their number to get anything, unlike long distance
service which is a network that uses the entire local telco network to
provide service (all I do is dial the end number I want to reach). 

The telcos are whining as usual about how  ISP's put excess loads on thier
networks, but tough sh*t...that's part of the cost of doing business.
Since they're the only game in town, I really can't muster any sympathy
for them. Neither, I suspect, will the FCC. The telcos pet
congresscritters, OTOH, will sell us out in a heartbeat.

Living that blighted land known as the US West (US Pest) service area may
have affected my views of these companies, however. 

I feel the same way about outher legalized monopolies, like cable systems.
It's odd, the great cable deregulation of two years ago, which everyone
claimed would result in lower costs and better service, have gotten us
three price increases and fewer channels Grrrr....

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, J-Man wrote:

> > Mr. Flores,
> >         I apologize for the tone of my response to your email. My
> > sarcasm, in an attempt to stop the hoax dead in its tracks, went
> > way over the line, and was uncalled for. I should have simply
> > pointed out that the information was a hoax, and left it at that.
> > -- Dave Golden     
> 
> 
> I'm not so sure it IS a hoax, anymore.  Mercury News service just ran a
> story on it today, claiming the same things Mr. Flores said.  When I
> first read his message, I promptly emailed the FCC and got this response
> :
> 
> > This is an automated response to the message you sent to isp@fcc.gov.  We established this mailbox
> > for informal comments about usage of the public switched telephone network by Internet access and
> > information service providers for a proceeding on this matter in 1997.  
> > 
> > If you are responding to a message stating that local phone companies have asked the FCC for
> > permission to impose per-minute charges for Internet access, please be aware that this information
> > is out of date.  The FCC decided in May 1997 NOT to allow imposition of interstate access charges
> > on Internet service providers. There is no comment period currently open in this proceeding.
> 
> After receiving this response, I too laughed his message off as
> mistaken.  Then I read in today's Mercury Silicon Valley News that such
> IS the case.  Now I am wondering who is right and who is wrong?
> 
> I emailed Patricia Sullivan at Mercury News to ask what was going on,
> and where they got their information.
> If indeed the FCC is trying to shove everyone off the internet and make
> it an exclusive playground for the rich, I'm all for tearing it down. 
> If freedom of speech (including the Internet) isn't for everyone, then
> it means nothing and is a sad harebringer of things to come in our
> stagnant society.  I fully intend to fight this
> if true.  No one is taking MY freedom or putting a high price on it. 
> Far as I am concerned the FCC is asking for trouble and I'll be happy to
> give them some.
> 
> Who else feels this way?
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:15:47 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: After the Assassination?

The absolute very best source for that is the TNE book Survival Margin. A
more bare-bones source are the TNS postings at IG's web site, and Vanya's
Not-The-IG Web Site.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Justin Durkan wrote:

> Hi Folks,
> 
>     My group play MT and none of us have any of the materials published
> after MT. I too am looking forward to T4.1. Anyway, what I was wondering is,
> is there a history of the Imperium and surrounding space available as a net
> resourse for the time after the civil war begins. I'm setting a campaign
> that begins before the assassination but progresses through the beginning of
> the civil war. What I need to know is what events must I include to avoid
> invalidating canon and also what event must not occur. I heard in some posts
> that Strephon's double was the actual victim, but this and other events I
> need confirmed.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> PS. Thankls to all who replied regarding my earlier request for NPC's. They
> were very helpful. One up for the TML!
> 
> /JD
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:00:54 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: After the Assasination

Dom Mooney writes:
>I'd disagree with some of your conclusions - eg Daibei. Dulinor will take
>time to crush but he will be crushed. If Strephon survived (or there was a
>legitimate heir backed by the Moot) the Solomani would probably terminate
>their offensive after retaking Terra as the moderates in the Council would
>not want to go toe to toe.

One thing you may want to keep in mind: By the time the Solomani takes
Terra THEY are the invaders. In 1105 Terra is about to become a fully
fledged member of the Imperium, all relationships normal. This should
have been accomplished by 1116. Now, do you imagine that the Solomani
leadership is going to 'liberate' Terra and turn over the Confederation
to the Mother World? Not on your life. They're going to start hunting
down "collaborators" and generally behave like invaders throughout time
and space. Except for a tiny minority of fanatics, everybody on Terra
is going to long for the Good Old Days of the Imperium. If the Imperium
gets its act together quickly enough, they may be able to perforn a
genuine liberation of Earth, backed by a massive local support...


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8


 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:01:17 -0500
From: Michael Kent <mkent@atlantic.net>
Subject: Starport offices

Ian Whitchurch wrote:

>What are peoples views on how much it would cost to rent office and
>warehouse space in a starport ?

<Snip>

>I am figuring a on-planet Factor would get paid say Cr 5000 a month, >and
>the office and warehouse space would cost a similar amount - maybe >twice
>this at an A starport, 75% at a C starport, 50% at a D and at an E he >is
>the facility.

Interesting.  I'm in the planning stages for a CT campaign (using MT
rules) set in Glisten/District 268/Five Sisters on the eve of the FFW. 
I've decided that the PCs will crew a Far Trader, and will be members of
a 'Trade Cooperative' with several other ships.  This will give them
several advantages:
1. Warehouse and office space in several of their ports.
2. Brokers on retainers in several ports.
3. Better freight availability.  They can depend on the other ships in
the cooperative for a source of freight.  They will be able to make
better deals with freight originators ("We can carry your freight all
the way to the destination on our ships.")
4. Better able to compete against the larger shippers, such as Al Moria.

Frankly, I don't see why your typical PC traders always have to 'go it
alone'.  Economically, it doesn't make sense.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:13:20 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Biochemistries, Part III

> L.A.
>
> P.S. The resemblance of Aslan - Cats I think comes from the oftern used
> feline aliens in the SF. You don't want to say you didn't think of lions,
> when you invented this race for Traveller, did you?

Partly, yes. Aslan were also partly inspired by Japanese and Muslim warrior
societies, and partly from a few other things.

I apologize if I am over-reacting, but I get a litle tired of people
concluding that Aslan (or other SF feline aliens) behave like cats because
they look like cats. We used to get questions all the time about this. One
JTAS submission lo these many years ago described the most popular Aslan
childrens' toy as being a large ball of yarn. 

I agree with the comments that the various compounds _may_ have similar
effects on humans, aslan, etc. I simply disagree with the notion that they
_must_ have nearly identical effects. 

Part of the fun is coming up with reasons why each race is slightly unique --
I think we all agree on that?

Loren Wiseman
    GDW Emeritus 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:36:00 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

Merrick Burkhardt writes: 

>> stagnant society.  I fully intend to fight this
>> if true.  No one is taking MY freedom or putting a high price on it. 
>> Far as I am concerned the FCC is asking for trouble and I'll be happy to
>> give them some.
>> 
>> Who else feels this way?
> 
>Um, not me. It's your _right_ to have the phone company pay for your
>access to the traveller mailing list?  Come again? Or is it just
>that you want the people that use the phone for a total of an hour
>or two a week to make up the slack for our tying up the phones lines
>for hours a day on the net?

   The Internet Service Providers are already paying for access.  Since I
already pay my ISP for access, what you are advocating is in essence double
billing.  No thanks.

>They should charge us all _more_ and charge people who use the phone
>as a phone _less_ IMHO.

   I don't recall my cable TV company offering me a rebate because I don't
watch as much TV as the family down the street, or I don't watch all the
channels they provide me.  It is an access issue, not a bandwidth issue.
Those who would like to turn it into a bandwidth issue stand to make huge
profits (far beyond the cost of necessary upgrades to the existing system)
if there were a change here in the US.

   As for grandma, no offense (in fact we'll make a generic grandmother),
but people such as her are a dying breed (and no pun intended).  Access to
phone and data lines is increasing with each generation and shows no sign of
slowing down.

   Ultimately however, you can go ahead and raise the tax to $10.00 a minute
for all I care--soon everyone will have the ability to switch their method
of accessing the Internet and phone service to cable, and when the phone
companies are dying off and begging people to come back, I'll smile and wish
them luck in the unemployment line.

>I wouldn't use the net nearly as much if I
>was paying for it by the minute, but I don't consider the internet
>as a requirement for existance, either. 

   You don't, but chances are your children will, and without question your
grandchildren will wonder how you lived without it.

   Real world example: Here at the University of Kentucky, if you want a
copy of the Employee Handbook or Human Resources updates, don't expect that
a paper copy will find its way into your inbox.  All of that kind of stuff
is posted on a Web site.  Our new library, which opens in a few months, will
have power outlets and dataports at 50 percent of all the seats.  I could go
on...

>Using the "then only the rich can use the net" arguement is silly---by 
>definition anybody with a grand or two to spend on a computer isn't 
>missing any meals (and if they are they should've spent their couple grand 
>on food instead of a computer).

   With computer prices crashing through the US$1,000 barrier, telling
someone that they have to then pay hundreds of extra dollars a year just
because they use the Internet to do more than just quickly download e-mail
each day and look up the weather and sports scores is truly silly, and so is
charging people extra just because you can.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:49:03 -0800
From: Jeff Cornish <JCornish@appiangraphics.com>
Subject: RE: Trade Stations

	On  Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:54:35  Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
wrote:

	Subject: Trade Stations and Red crew/Blue crew

	What are peoples views on how much it would cost to rent office
and
	warehouse space in a starport ?


	What I am thinking of is bending the economics rules in the
latest THUDD -
	namely, do the route as written *but* have a trade station on
each planet,
	with the plan being the ship jumps in, meets up with the
on-planet broker
	who gives them the new speculative cargo, collects their old
one, and then
	spends a week selling it while the ship is doing it's job
travelling
	between the stars.

	The cycle then repeats at each planet, with the idea being to
avoid having
	this big expensive asset sitting on the tarmac/in orbit as much
as possible.

	I figure with such a system you would be able to have a 24 hour
turnaround,
	thus making the average trip time 10 days rather than 15.

	This will do wonderful things to profitability.

	I am figuring a on-planet Factor would get paid say Cr 5000 a
month, and
	the office and warehouse space would cost a similar amount -
maybe twice
	this at an A starport, 75% at a C starport, 50% at a D and at an
E he is
	the facility.

	What do people think ?

	Ian Whitchurch

Ian,
	This subject hits my hot button.  I'm from the 'orbital
segregation' school of thought.  In the universe you have Spacers and
you have Groundhogs.  Although there are exceptions, the two generally
don't mix.

	The question comes down to can you trust your factor? There are
displacement tons of adventure ideas right there!

	So, who's going to be the factor?  

- --A local?  You're just asking to get hung out to dry.  If they aren't
some undercover treasury agent or a bomb-building counter-clockwise
radical, they will get called by thier sick Aunt Mnbwa to rake Zobian
tasty-root on the Southern Continent.  The only thing you'll have to
fill your cargo bay with is air with whatever local taint they can't get
rid of.

- --A Spacer?  If the locals don't castigate him, and if he stays sober,
AND if he doesn't blow all the money at the track/aquarium.

Face it, the only way to make a profit out in the Imperium is to do it
face-to-face.  Stay Alert, Trust no one, Keep your Sandcaster handy.

Jeffrey

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2225
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, January 13 1998     Volume 1997 : Number 2226



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Public Apology/ long off topic rant
Re[4]: Biochemistries
ROM, The Long Night and Mileu 0
Re: Public Apology
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
Re: Public Apology
Re: Public Apology
#traveller topic
Re: The Assasination
Strangeness
Re: Starport offices
Re: Starport offices
Re: Question for Marc
re: The Assassination
Re: The Assasination
Re: TL9 Big PAW
RE: Trade Stations
Re: Trade Stations and Red crew/Blue crew
Micro Satellites

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:09:36 -0500
From: ringrose@ascent.com
Subject: Re: Public Apology/ long off topic rant

Short off topic comment, in response to Bruce Johnson's "long off
topic rant"

I recall reading that telephone companies want ISPs declared common
carriers, like long distance companies, because you can purchase
software which allows you to, effectively, make a long distance call
over the Internet.  Free, except for local charges.

With that food for thought, can we _PLEASE_ drop the topic and return
to traveller-related talk?  Do your research and send personal email
with the results to the people who were actually involved in the
telecom conversation, but keep it off the traveller list.

	- Robert Ringrose
	  ringrose@ascent.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:28:00 -0800
From: "GILLESPIE, BIRD" <bird.gillespie@dfsgl.com>
Subject: Re[4]: Biochemistries

     Wooooohoooo!  I stand, um, is my nose bleeding?  Alrighty, then......


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Biochemistries
Author:  traveller@mpgn.com at -FABRIK/Internet
Date:    1/12/98 5:37 PM


From: traveller@mpgn.com
Date: Mon, Jan 12, 1998 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Biochemistries
To: GILLESPIE, BIRD; traveller
By all means let us split hairs...
     
Valerian (shrub), common name for a family of plants of the teasel order, 
and especially for any of various perennial shrubs or herbs of the 
representative genus, native to mainly cool, northern temperate regions.
     
Valerians vary in height from 0.6 to 1.5 m (2 to 5 ft) and have thick, 
acrid-smelling roots and either simple or lobed leaves. The small pink or 
white flowers grow in dense clusters and are often highly fragrant. The 
common valerian, or garden heliotrope, native to Europe and northern Asia, is 
cultivated as an ornamental; its roots are the source of a sedative drug. It 
is unrelated to true heliotropes.
     
Scientific classification: Valerians make up the family Valerianaceae. The 
representative genus is Valeriana. The common valerian, or garden 
heliotrope, is classified as Valeriana officinalis.
     
     
>     Valerian is a plant, not exactly a preparation, and its powdered root 
>     is the leading over the counter tranquilizer sold in Europe.  Valerian 
>     officinalis, officially.  I suppose its just splitting hairs.....
>
>     I often drink an infusion of the root (tea) and it works very well 
>     (Laid Back, as SnoopDD would say).
>
>     bird
     
>Valerian is a medicinal preparation made from the roots of one of a group 
of
>medicial plants known as valerians, the best known of which is ^ 
Heliotrope.
  ^^^^^^^^^
This word should not have been in my original post, please excuse. 
Where the single "^" has been inserted above the world Garden should be 
added.
     
Hopefully, this should clear up the matter.  :-) 
_______________
     
I must be Travelling,
     
Richard
_______________
     
     
     
- ----------
Received: from Phaser.Showcase.MPGN.com by prague.fabrik.com
        with ESMTP (Fabrik F07.1-000)
        id SINN.4320655@prague.fabrik.com ; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:56:23 -0800
Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)
        by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA16654; 
        Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:54:49 -0500
Received: by lists.MPGN.COM (bulk_mailer v1.5); Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:54:26 -0500

Received: (from majordom@localhost)
        by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA16519 
        for traveller-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:53:45 -0500
X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to 
owner-traveller@lists.MPGN.COM using -f
Received: from Mithril.MPGN.COM (Mithril.MPGN.COM [206.66.87.8])
        by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA16461
        for <traveller@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM>; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:52:28
- -0500
Received: from smtp2.mailsrvcs.net (smtp2.gte.net [207.115.153.31]) by 
Mithril.MPGN.COM (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA24807 for <traveller@MPGN.COM>;
     
Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:36:24 -0500
Received: from default (1Cust164.tnt1.broken-arrow.ok.da.uu.net 
[208.254.16.164])
        by smtp2.mailsrvcs.net  with SMTP id TAA18135
        for <traveller@MPGN.COM>; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:36:01 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <00a301bd1fc3$cc32b180$a410fed0@default> 
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
To: <traveller@mpgn.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Biochemistries
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:37:22 -0600 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 
Sender: owner-traveller@lists.MPGN.COM
Reply-To: traveller@mpgn.com
     
- ----------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:07:03 -0500
From: "Scott Spieker" <scspieker@ncweb.com>
Subject: ROM, The Long Night and Mileu 0

	I have been reading an old series of books called "Foundation" written by
Isaac Asimov around 1952.  It high lights the effects of a galactic empire
that is brought down by rebellion, slowing economics, and a general
distrust of the impersonal Imperial government.  The series highlights the
foreshadowed knowledge of such an occurrence which under 'normal'
circumstances would have left the galaxy in ruins for well over 30,000
years.  But one man's psycohistoric examination and projections would lead
a small group of scientists to 'preserve' knowledge through the Long night
following the collapse of the interstellar Imperium.  (Sound a little
traveller like yet?)
	The point to the preservation of this knowledge would be to greatly
shorten the period of time that the galaxy would remain in a state of
barbarism.  The projected period of time would only last 1000 years rather
than the 30k that was first assumed. (Sound any more like traveller yet?)

	As I read through each of the novels it corresponds loosely with the idea
of ROM and the long night.  I thought to myself that this series would make
for an excellent background for a Pocket Empire campaign as well as
Traveller or Imperial Squadrons, but I lean more towards the idea of Pocket
Empires.  The series is a good source for additional mileu ideas for the
period of time spanning the end of ROM to the beginning of the Mileu 0
campaign.  Who knows, maybe the Foundation was a Jump Start Cache left by
one of the governments who foresaw the end of the ROM and the beginning of
the Long night.  Maybe even Cleon had "discovered" the Foundation's hiding
spot and utilized their knowledge to help start the Third Imperium...


	I highly recommend the series for those of you who keep an open mind in
regards to the 'grey area' caused by holes in the Traveller background.  I
also recommend the series for those of you who are interested in intrigue
and 'Empire Building' type literature than the 'hack and slash' first
person approach at stories.


Just my two billion creds worth...

Travelling is my life!

Scott Spieker
scspieker@ncweb.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:13:53 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

 J-Man <j-man@iname.com> wrote:

>> Ob Traveller (forgot last time!):
>> What might data transfer cost in the Imperium? What about Imperium
>> Express, would it survive?

>It was my understanding that the Xpress boat network was wiped out by
>the VIRUS.

Nah! The X-Web is up and running in the Regency....

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:40:33 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

#1 wrote:

>The message below was found as an unauthorized inclusion in a Sayat
>diplomatic pouch. Origin of inclusion unknown.
>
>The last line seems to be a closing. Meaning unclear. The placement of
>the numeral at the boottom seems to indicate it is intended as a
>signature. Again, significance, unknown.
>
>The message was printed on a cellulose based material (paper) with a
>"watermark" image that has been identified as a primitive Solomani
>vehicle known as a "bicycle". Again, significance is unknown.

<BG>
[snip]

>The four color theorem was proven sometime in the last two decades of
>the 20th century (Solomani reckoning). I don't have the references
>handy to pin it down any closer than probably being in the period 1985
>to 1995.

A-HA!  1+9+8+5=23 and 2+3=5 -- i.e, our Guaranese friends again.

While 1+9+9+5=24 and 2+4=6 -- the hoary batwinged fiends from the outer void!

Praise the "coincidence" and pass the ammo... and excuse the, er, sloppy
translation of previous message. Yes! That's what it was.  Translation
errors.

I would like to take advantage of this opportunity to deny any involvement
of members of the Sayat Concourse in the abduction and ritual laser
decapitation of Sylean electronic communications systems supervisors, which
phenomena allegedly resulted in recent disruptions of email service.

Labs 7 through 9 on the Osikattalkarai will be closed to visitors until
further notice.  Due to -- recarpeting.  Yes.  New carpets.

Redeye
SEG/#15 XPITF(S)
<http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:40:39 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Public Apology

Bruce Johnson wrote:

>I feel the same way about outher legalized monopolies, like cable systems.
>It's odd, the great cable deregulation of two years ago, which everyone
>claimed would result in lower costs and better service, have gotten us
>three price increases and fewer channels Grrrr....

You, sir... or should I say, comrade? -- are sounding suspiciously like
some sort of pinko socialist ideologue.  Please try to keep in mind that
Communism Has Been Proven Not to Work :|


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:25:11 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

>	I'll bet you two bits their information came from a similar
>place as the original email. FWIW, this hoax has been going
>around since 1987, and everyone was up in arms about the attack
>on that bastion of information freedom, the dial-up BBS. Anybody
>remember those?

When the modem tax "hoax" started, it wasn't a hoax at the time.  The whole
thing was shot down by the federal government in short order.  The fact that
the letters persisted into the early 90s made it a hoax.

Although, in the same vein, I miss those halcyon days when BBSes roamed the
earth freely (*sigh*)...  There's under a dozen BBSes in the Philadelphia area
now, and the activity level is extremely low.  

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:42:00 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: #traveller topic

Say, does anyone know what the topic for Thursday's IRC bash is going to be?

</cue>

Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:51:32 EST
From: DustyLV769 <DustyLV769@aol.com>
Subject: Re: The Assasination

In a message dated 1/12/98 20:32:02 PM Pacific Standard Time,
TravelrTNE@aol.com writes:

<< Margaret... who knows.  Her real
 character has been revealed already on this list  >>

I am afraid I must have missed this choice little tidbit...could someone clue
me in when they have the time?  

Ed JEnkins (DustyLV769@aol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:55:26 -0500
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: Strangeness

I was bored so....

Homer J. Simpson
4 Terms - Nuclear Technician
952386
Engineering 1, Brawling 2, D'Oh 3, Mmmm....3, Economics (all) -3 (that is
not a dash), Take Repeated Blows to the Head 4, Mechanic -2, Wheeled Vehicle
1

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:07:44 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Re: Starport offices

>Interesting.  I'm in the planning stages for a CT campaign (using MT
>rules) set in Glisten/District 268/Five Sisters on the eve of the FFW.
Gee Michael, so am I. Maybe we should compare notes :-)

>I've decided that the PCs will crew a Far Trader, and will be members of
>a 'Trade Cooperative' with several other ships. ...
>Frankly, I don't see why your typical PC traders always have to 'go it
>alone'.  Economically, it doesn't make sense.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. If you haven't read C.J.Cherryh I suggest
you check her out. (Particularly "Merchanter's Luck", in this instance.) I
generally follow her economic model/setting. She has "trade combines"
which are collections of ships. They don't so much have facilities on the
different worlds but rather bank accounts. It is more important in her
universe.

My players decided they wanted to play "Han and Chewie wannabies". So
they are skut crew on Tramp Freighter. They spend most of their time
locked into their area of the ship by the senior (permanent) crew. The ship
isn't a Pirate, rather it services pirates. A smuggler, or fencer, etc,
etc.

I'll be keeping location notes and so forth in Jim Vassilikos's Galactic.
If
you like we (anyone else running something here right now?) can share
write-ups though this.

Cheers,

Jo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:36:59 -0500
From: Michael Kent <mkent@atlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Starport offices

Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com wrote:
> 
> >Interesting.  I'm in the planning stages for a CT campaign (using MT
> >rules) set in Glisten/District 268/Five Sisters on the eve of the FFW.
> Gee Michael, so am I. Maybe we should compare notes :-)

I would LOVE to share notes.  I too am using Galactic, and while the
world writeups that come with the 2.3 distribution are a great start, I
noticed that many of the writeups are for the TNE error (uhm... make
that 'era' :o), and there are no writeups for the Five Sisters subsector
at all.  Do you have a source of such writeups that I can use as a
jumpstart?

> I agree with you wholeheartedly. If you haven't read C.J.Cherryh I > > suggest you check her out. (Particularly "Merchanter's Luck", in this > instance.)

I've read Cherryh, but not that particular book.  I read the Chanur
series, and a couple others.  Yeah, it's great source material for
Traveller.

> I'll be keeping location notes and so forth in Jim Vassilikos's Galactic.
> If
> you like we (anyone else running something here right now?) can share
> write-ups though this.

As I said, I'd love to.  Let me know how I can help, and what specific
info you're looking for.

If anyone on TML can give either of us pointers to world writeups for
Glisten/District 268/Five Sisters, we'd appreciate it.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:21:55 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Question for Marc

At 12:40 AM 1/13/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-01-12 23:54:20 EST, you write:
>
><< 
> Tasty. Where do I sign?
>  >>
>
>No place to sign. Just be patient.

Marc, I think you're missing a great opportunity here..  Getting people to
sign away their souls for first crack at the Traveller CD would seem to be
an excellent way to garner playtesters and booth slaves for IG.

On the topic of booth slaves, is IG going to have a presence at GenCon this
year?  I'll be there in my Marine Force Leader's uniform (0-3).. I just got
the rough of my MCG back from the guy who is casting it; This costume
*will* rock.
- --

+--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x+
| Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net x
x   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x-+
|          Embrace Fascism.          x
x       The uniforms look cool       |
+-x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x-+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:38:26 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: re: The Assassination

At 09:14 AM 1/13/98 +0000, Dom wrote:

>Incidentally, what if the Imperium trades Terra for Solomani peace?

I can't imagine that happening, especially with Iphengia on the throne.
Iphengia would have been unready for the seat, and might have been
manipulated by senior Naval officers away from any appeasement of the
Solomani.  The Confederation is the only real threat faced by the Imperium
in the early 12th Century.. The Zhodani make contact with the Imperial
border on a very narrow front (one Subsector, basically), and seem to be
fighting wars only to keep the Imperium at bay.  The Vargr are too
disorganized to present a credible threat, the Aslan and Imperium are
separated by Reaver's Deep sector, as are the K'Kree, who also are a full
sector away.  Who knows what the Hivers are doing.  No, it's the Solomani
who are in the Admiralty's mind.

Once the Second Illeish Revolt is suppressed, I wouldn't put it past the
Navy to manufacture an incident to provoke a war with the Solomani to
settle the question once and for all.  These Admirals all grew up on
stories of the Solomani Rim War, and are eager to cover themselves with glory.


- --
+------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry         dberry@hooked.net   |
|         http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
+------------------------------------------------+
| "Only on the surface has the strategic missile |
| race reflected competition between the United  |
| States and the Soviet Union; the real struggle |
| is between the US Air Force and its archrival  |
| the US Navy."              -Samuel H. Day, Jr. |
+------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:27:53 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: The Assasination

At 08:55 AM 1/13/98 +0000, you wrote:

>I'm sure I read *somewhere* in the MT material (be it TD/MTJ or a DGP/GDW
>book) that Dulinor had requested a private audience and the Aslan
>ambassador was asked to stay behind by Strephon. I may be wrong though.

Strephon had just finished greeting the Aslan ambssador, and was to meet
with him privately after recieving Dulinor.  On impulse, the Emperor
invited the Ambassador to remain in the Octogon with him for what was to be
a brief meeting.

TD#9 has Dulinor stripping Strephon of the crown before a horrified
auidence in the Throne Room, or words to that effect.
- --
+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "Some days, you just can't get rid  |
|  of a bomb!"                        |
|     -Adam West, the REAL Batman     |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:39:25 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: TL9 Big PAW

At 01:02 AM 1/13/98 -0800, you wrote:
>What the heck does PAW stand for?

Particle Accelerator Weapon.

Doug.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:21:42 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Trade Stations

<<Subject: Trade Stations and Red crew/Blue crew
What are peoples views on how much it would cost to rent office
and warehouse space in a starport ?

What I am thinking of is bending the economics rules in the
latest THUDD -namely, do the route as written *but* have a trade station 
oneach planet, with the plan being the ship jumps in, meets up with the 
on-planet broker who gives them the new speculative cargo, collects 
their old one, and then spends a week selling it while the ship is doing 
it's job travelling between the stars.

The cycle then repeats at each planet, with the idea being to
avoid having this big expensive asset sitting on the tarmac/in orbit as 
much as possible.

I figure with such a system you would be able to have a 24 hour 
turnaround, thus making the average trip time 10 days rather than 15.

This will do wonderful things to profitability.

I am figuring a on-planet Factor would get paid say Cr 5000 a month, and 
the office and warehouse space would cost a similar amount - maybe twice 
this at an A starport, 75% at a C starport, 50% at a D and at an
E he is the facility.

What do people think ?>>

<<<This subject hits my hot button.  I'm from the 'orbital segregation' 
school of thought.  In the universe you have Spacers and
you have Groundhogs.  Although there are exceptions, the two generally
don't mix.

The question comes down to can you trust your factor? There are
displacement tons of adventure ideas right there!

So, who's going to be the factor?  

- --A local?  You're just asking to get hung out to dry.  If they aren't
some undercover treasury agent or a bomb-building counter-clockwise
radical, they will get called by thier sick Aunt Mnbwa to rake Zobian
tasty-root on the Southern Continent.  The only thing you'll have to
fill your cargo bay with is air with whatever local taint they can't get 
rid of.

- --A Spacer?  If the locals don't castigate him, and if he stays sober,
AND if he doesn't blow all the money at the track/aquarium.

Face it, the only way to make a profit out in the Imperium is to do it
face-to-face.  Stay Alert, Trust no one, Keep your Sandcaster handy.

Jeffrey>>>

Ian:

Your idea is exactly what one of my trading groups does.  The benefactor 
is a count in the Lunion System, who put up the capital for the initial 
downpayments....  His goal is to build a Sector-Wide trading firm, with 
eventual goals of spanning the empire (might take a few generations, but 
hey, it'll run in the family).

The group has grown to 5 ships already, with the captains aboard (mostly 
people he knew from career days) becoming part owners in the company.  
We are working on the factor issue right now (do they become owners 
too?)  

This is how I see the other Subsector and Sector wide lines beginning.  
Your theories of keeping your productive assets producing and your back 
office support supporting is what business is all about.  Besides, if 
you are running speculative business activities too, you may need to 
store some cargo for a while in one of your own warehouses for further 
transfer to another ship going down another "route".  

Keep it up!  Now, where we don't really agree, the group has also 
purchased a patrol cruiser for defense against pirates/corporate 
raiders.  Having the count's deep pockets has helped too.

Question.  I remember reading somewhere in published material about how 
much a royal's holdings should provide him/her on an annual basis, and 
the problems of taxes, and whether or not he is away from the fiefdom, 
etc.  Anybody else remember that? 

Greg

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:36:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Trade Stations and Red crew/Blue crew

> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:54:35
> From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
> 
> What are peoples views on how much it would cost to rent office and
> warehouse space in a starport ?

I'd guess about Cr20/m3 for office space, Cr10/m3 for 'plain' warehouse
space -- but that's off the top of my head.  A smallish office (like, say,
a typical minimall real estate office, for example) occupies about 3x10x5
m = 150 m3, for a monthly rent of Cr3000, which seems reasonable.  This
figure would be much higher at low TLs, when volume aboard space
facilities is at a premium, but is probably reasonable for TL 10+ or so. 

> What I am thinking of is bending the economics rules in the latest THUDD -
> namely, do the route as written *but* have a trade station on each planet,
> with the plan being the ship jumps in, meets up with the on-planet broker
> who gives them the new speculative cargo, collects their old one, and then
> spends a week selling it while the ship is doing it's job travelling
> between the stars.
> 
> The cycle then repeats at each planet, with the idea being to avoid having
> this big expensive asset sitting on the tarmac/in orbit as much as possible.
> 
> I figure with such a system you would be able to have a 24 hour turnaround,
> thus making the average trip time 10 days rather than 15.

I've long taken for granted that this is the natural next step in the
evolution of a trading company.  Free traders operate in marginal niches,
covering no fixed route, without local support at the worlds they visit,
relying on luck with speculative trade to get buy.  Many go bankrupt.

Those free traders that make a healthy profit (and are both smart and
business-inclined enough) plow the money back into developing a trade
infrastructure such as you describe, maintaining brokers on each planet
they routinely visit to have cargoes ready for them when they arrive.
Frequently the warehouse area near the starport is full of tiny, run-down
offices run by contract brokers, each holding accounts with ten or more
small (1 to 3 ship) trading companies which visit the world.

The next stage beyond this is becoming a full-fledged independent shipping
company, with a small fleet of vessels and separate, company-owned
offices and full-time brokers at each major port.

Needless to say, each step along this ladder decreases the scope of
adventure opportunities.  A lone free trader can wander around at will,
taking on odd jobs and 'special cargoes' to stay one jump ahead of the
creditors.  A larger trade company, however, will have fixed routes and
schedules in order to fulfill contractual obligations and meet wider
company goals.  (Lando Calrissian's conversation with Han Solo from
'The Empire Strikes Back' comes to mind.)  That's why many GMs skew events
to keep free traders 'hungry', never letting them accumulate enough cash
to 'settle down' and become respectable.

> This will do wonderful things to profitability.

Yep.  It's yet another example of the old maxim, "It takes money to make
money."

> I am figuring a on-planet Factor would get paid say Cr 5000 a month, and
> the office and warehouse space would cost a similar amount - maybe twice
> this at an A starport, 75% at a C starport, 50% at a D and at an E he is
> the facility.

I came up with my figures without reading yours, and it seems we're in
rough agreement.  I like making the price depend on starport quality in
addition to TL.  Note also that I was assuming orbital facilities; for
on-planet facilities, halve my numbers and eliminate the TL dependency.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:45:39 -0700
From: Eric Holmes <holmes_eric_t@lanl.gov>
Subject: Micro Satellites

Fellow Travellers:

Thought you'd like to read this:

Los Alamos develops microsatellites

SAN FRANCISCO, Dec. 8, 1997 - How small can you make a satellite?

About half an ounce is the startling answer from a team of Los Alamos
National Laboratory researchers who are designing cheap microsatellites with
control systems based on the simplest "twitches" of animal neurons.

These insect-like space vehicles could open up important new space missions,
said Kurt Moore and co-authors Janette Frigo and Mark Tilden in a paper
presented today at the American Geophysical Union's semi-annual meeting. The
paper was part of a session entitled "Science Closure and Enabling
Technologies for Magnetospheric Constellation Missions."

The Los Alamos control systems are designed first and foremost to survive,
then to do useful work.

"Instead of designing systems that withstand their environment, we are
engineering systems that rely on their environment," Moore said.

Among potential missions are measuring solar wind or capturing more precise
images of Earth's features.

From the earliest days of space exploration, engineers made vehicles whose
primary function was to anticipate and overcome the harsh environment of
space. The Los Alamos team has built tiny robotic controllers that survive
in almost any environment.

Nearly half of costly, complex satellites have failed recently due to loss
of their links with Earth control stations, often a result of space
radiation wiping out delicate on-board microprocessors. Satellites increase
in vulnerability as they increase in rigidity and complexity of design,
Moore said.

"We're working on satellites that have no microprocessors or fixed
algorithmic behaviors," Moore said. "Instead, these satellites are survivors
- - designed from the bottom up and domesticated by their sensors and control
payloads into performing high-reliability tasks."

These robust microsatellites represent the logical end of one evolutionary
trend in space exploration - toward clusters of small, cheap satellites that
can achieve results even when some of them fail, Moore said. Microsatellites
are so robust that they even could be used to investigate the Van Allen
radiation belts, which most Earth-orbiting satellites avoid.

The control systems are based on simple "nervous nets," an instinct-like
neural net in which a single electronic neuron is sufficient to produce a
control pulse, or twitch, in a robotic creature lacking an advanced
processor or computer commands.

Tilden, a robotics engineer, found that with just two neurons he could
create a walking, insect-like robot with remarkable survival skills. With
larger arrays of a few neurons, Tilden made larger, more sophisticated
walkers controlled by central pattern generators that were directly coupled
to the environment.

Nervous nets work like the neurons in animal nervous systems, which put out
spiked pulses that hold useful information in the timing between the pulses.
In computer terms, the information needed to do work lives in the firing
rate, not in a coded voltage level.

The more than 200 types of legged robots Tilden built with these central
pattern generators - which work like the simple independent control loop
that sends
messages from one insect leg to the next to keep the creature moving - have
proven reliable, nearly impervious to electrical and mechanical fault and
surprisingly capable of self assembly and collective behavior.

The Los Alamos model demonstrated at AGU is a microsatellite controller
whose primary mission is to orient itself in Earth's magnetic field. Using
only a few
transistors, these space 'bots seek the brightest available light source,
the sun, and set themselves precisely toward it.

Acting like a delay line, electronic pulses from photodetectors travel first
to one neuron, then the next. By adjusting the timing relationship between
the pulses, the control system seeks the light and uses the reaction of the
controller's magnetic field against Earth's magnetic field for the torque
needed to orient the satellite.

With six neurons on three axes, the controller can move or examine different
points in three-dimensional space.

Hundreds of microsatellites could relay simple streams of data to a
communications microsatellite, which could integrate the data and pass it on
to a ground station.

Measuring Earth's magnetosphere is one potential mission. By locating a
swarm of microsatellites on the sunward side of the magnetopause, scientists
could take
real-time measurements of the energy transferred to Earth's magnetic field
by the turbulent solar wind.

"We've never really been able to do real-time monitoring of the position of
the magnetopause as the solar wind pushes it around," Moore explained. "With
hundreds of these microsatellites, we should be able to do that."

Another experiment might place on each microsatellite a single imager
sufficient to gather just one high-resolution piece of an image. By
collecting all the pieces, researchers on the ground could obtain highly
accurate pictures of Earth features.

A half-ounce microsatellite, about three inches in diameter, would be small
enough to orient itself within a single fluctuation in space plasma, Moore said.

"These microsatellites can go where expensive, big satellites can't go and
they can perform a class of business and science missions that no other
platform can do," Moore said.

"Nobody knows how little you can go," he said. "That's what we aim to find out."


Holmes

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2226
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, January 13 1998     Volume 1997 : Number 2227



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: ROM, The Long Night and Mileu 0
Re: Public Apology
Santry and Cordova
Re: Public Apology
Re: Crew accomodations
Re: Droyne as PC's?
Re: Trade Stations and Red crew/Blue crew
Black Globes / MT rules (Was Re: Droyne as PC's?) 
Re: Public Apology
Re: ROM, The Long Night and Mileu 0
Re: re"Space Combat System
Re: Public Apology
Missile Design Question
Re: Public Apology
Re: Public Apology
Black globes in jump
Re: Biochemistries, Part III
Re: Move over, Sayat machine translators!
Re: Public Apology

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:30:00 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: ROM, The Long Night and Mileu 0

Scott Spieker wrote:
> 
>         I have been reading an old series of books called "Foundation" 

I agree, it is as excellent series. I especially liked Foundations Edge.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:59:04 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

Kenji Schwarz wrote:
> 
> Bruce Johnson wrote:
> 
> >I feel the same way about outher legalized monopolies, like cable systems.
<snip>
> 
> You, sir... or should I say, comrade? -- are sounding suspiciously like
> some sort of pinko socialist ideologue.  Please try to keep in mind that
> Communism Has Been Proven Not to Work :|
<snip> 

I do not agree that (true) Communism has proven not to work. Where in
the world have we ever had (true) Communism. It goes against the grain
of Capitalism and so must be obliterated by whatever means or so the
feeling goes. No, I,m not a sympathyser.
May I suggest a book - Looking Backward 2000-1887 by Edward Bellamy -
which has a vaque similarity as to how it could be made to work - such
that everyone benefits - equally - but alas it was all just a dream.

Jim Cooper

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:58:56 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Santry and Cordova

>The problem worlds are Santry and Cordova...
I wrote the bits on Santry and Cordova in the Rules. Someone else decided
to place them at that place in Core. I thought it was daft as they were
supposed to be two pocket empires in conflict, yet their mainworlds were
Jump-1 apart. It doesen't meet at all with the text in the rules unless you
assume that when they split the capital moved. (Like Terra isn't the
capital of the Solomani.)

>These are in the middle of the Chanestin Kingdom's cluster, which I would
>argue means that it would be swamped and fall during the Chanestin/Sylean
>wars.
I haven't been tracking the info on the Chanestin Kingdom. I was going to
get around to placing Santry and Cordova a week or so ago which is when I
noticed that someone had already placed them. Maybe I should just go ahead
a find a place for them and ignore what is in First Survey. After all, it
doesn't match the description in the rules.

Cheers,
Jo

PS: If anyone is interested in more about Santry and Cordova there is some
additional material. Hasn't quite made it into another publication yet...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:58:06 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

Jim Cooper wrote:
> 
> Kenji Schwarz wrote:
> >
> > Bruce Johnson wrote:
> >
> > >I feel the same way about outher legalized monopolies, like cable systems.
> <snip>
> >
> > You, sir... or should I say, comrade? -- are sounding suspiciously like
> > some sort of pinko socialist ideologue.  Please try to keep in mind that
> > Communism Has Been Proven Not to Work :|
> <snip>
> I do not agree that (true) Communism has proven not to work. Where in
> the world have we ever had (true) Communism. It goes against the grain
> of Capitalism and so must be obliterated by whatever means or so the
> feeling goes. No, I,m not a sympathyser.

I didn't get the feeling that Kenji believes this either. The smilie -->
:| <-- seems to denote a humourless sarcasm. Y'know, an ironic jab at
the cold war propaganda we are all *supposed* to swallow ...

O'course I don't pretend to speak for Kenji, I'll let him clarify the
meaning of his cryptic remark. :)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 98 19:42 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Crew accomodations

Moin Harold D. Hale,

>    By the Modern ("Imperial") Era, we are told that such functions that
> could be handled by robots are performed within the "box" (the computer
> systems and electronics) itself.  This explains why robots are not routinely
> used on naval vessels (or merchants for that matter) in the Third Imperium.

	Well from the Referees Companion page 35 ff. claimed that Dover
	Gabe (Sylea) produced robots for naval service between -143 and
	-122, when the "Empires Banner" accident happend. A terrorist
	group managed to rig one of Dover Gabes armed curier robots, to
	sneak on board and destroy the 90.000dt battleship. At -110 the
	12 memberworlds signed Shudusham Concord. Since than robots are
	rarly seen in Sylean Navy. Cleons claim " one may argue that a
	intelligent robot might be sentient " did'nt improve acceptance
	of robots in the early 3I until 298 when Makhidkarum started to
	sell Tl-13 house hold robots.

> Near sentient intelligent robots were being tested by the navy as
> replacements for humans as pilots and other for other tasks, but that
> testing ceased with the Rebellion.

	I think robots on board had been quite common in the late 3I,
	as crew requirements in MT are much lower than in TNE or T4,
	Especialy on larger ships.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 98 20:48 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Droyne as PC's?

In-Reply-To: <01bd1fe9$7c1601e0$5d7262ce@worldlink.w-link.net>

Electric,

> After re-reading my CT books I came across a paragraph describing black
> globes. (I believe it was in starship book #3) Anyways, it mentioned ships
> coming out of jump with their black globes on. Is this an oversight in the
> writing of the book or is it actually possible to have a black globe on
> while in jump?

Starships was Book 2, but now you come to mention it I remember that 
comment. I suggest changing it to activating the BG as the ship re-enters 
real space, or shortly after. Actually, engaging the BG too soon doesn't 
give the intruder long enough to check where they are, where they're going, 
or what's out there, so it's a bit pointless.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:22:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Trade Stations and Red crew/Blue crew

On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Ian or Katts wrote:

> 
> What are peoples views on how much it would cost to rent office and
> warehouse space in a starport ?

It's going to depend on the Class of port, TL of the world, and the
population.

At a low-TL world, a trader is going to need an office to do business.
A static comm net (the telephone system of the pre-90's) will hamper any
kind of non-static place of business.  Records and data access will be
another big factor mandating office space.  Dropping in a high-TL computer
and communications system may not solve this problem either, as the local
government may require (shudder) hardcopy forms and documentation for tax
and business records.

As the TL of the world goes up, the importance of a 'office' per se, goes
down.  (however, the status of 'having' an office may go up?)  Eventually,
at TL A or B, the equipment necessary to communicate, transact business,
research information will be small and light enough to be carried on the
person.  The infrastructure of the world will permit mobile
communications, data and currency exchanges, etc....

Location of the office you have is important.  Getting a office near the
landing pads of the downport, or by the docking ring of the highport, will
attract a certain percentage of 'walk-in' business.  While, I'm sure, most
traders have specific brokers they do business with in each port, there
will always be the odd trader that needs a broker.  Having an office in a
cut-rate building may save money, but will cut down on the walk-in
business.  (As will not having an office!)

Location is important in other ways.  A broker that does not have some
representation (either personnel or at least advertising) in both the
highport and the downport will miss business.  (Just a side note - IMC, if
the trader is looking for cargo to carry - she/he gets it at either the
highport or the downport.  If they are looking for speculative cargo, they
_must_ go to the downport, or even out onto the planet!)

So far as the highport goes, permanent offices there will be expensive.
Very.  I can see several brokers, specializing in non-competative (or 'not
very'-competative) fields going in together to rent decent high-port
space.

Finally, population.  I think that it would be safe to say that the higher
the population density, the more office space is going to cost.  At Pop
9+, it may actually be cheaper to get office space in the highport....

Warehousing the cargo...

Hmmm...

The building that houses the cargo containers would be pretty standard.
The incoming cargo could be housed in the temporary facilities provided by
the starport (part of the cr100 you pay) for a week before you would have
to move 'em (hopefully you have sold them by then).  For the goods being
amassed by the on-planet factor, it would be cheaper to use warehousing
off-port (since it's from the planet anyway, extra-territoriality should
not be an issue, for transient goods, a bonded warehouse may be
necessary), but if security is an issue then a warehouse in the downport,
or even the highport may be preferred.

Security will be a major cost issue.  The least secure facilies will range
from painted lines on the ground, to a shack with a lock.  More secure
facilities will offer on-site guards.  A step up will include some
electronic protection (to be sure the guards are making their rounds, if
nothing else).  Top of the line security will remove human guardians and
replace them with robots, monitored security, touchpad entry, etc...

The only other thing I would have to say here is that you will lease
either a portion of a warehouse, or an entire warehouse.  If you lease or
buy your own warehouse, you have much more control over it, but you only
have as much space as you have bought.  If you find a great deal on 200
Dtons of cargo, but only have 100 Dtons of warehouse, you are going to be
on the market for more space in a hurry (can you say, expensive?).  On the
other hand, if you lease a portion of someone else's warehouse, your
security is going to suffer to a certain extent.  In either case, if you
end up with more space than _you_ need, you can always try and rent that
space out.

> What I am thinking of is bending the economics rules in the latest THUDD -
> namely, do the route as written *but* have a trade station on each planet,
> with the plan being the ship jumps in, meets up with the on-planet broker
> who gives them the new speculative cargo, collects their old one, and then
> spends a week selling it while the ship is doing it's job travelling
> between the stars.
> 
> The cycle then repeats at each planet, with the idea being to avoid having
> this big expensive asset sitting on the tarmac/in orbit as much as possible.
> 
> I figure with such a system you would be able to have a 24 hour turnaround,
> thus making the average trip time 10 days rather than 15.

Again, this is just a personal campaign issue, but I've always maintained
that consecutive jumps impose a high chance of misjump.  The week between
jumps is time that the engineers use for minor work on the drives, allows
time for the components of the drive to 'cool off' and stabilize, etc.

> 
> This will do wonderful things to profitability.
> 
> I am figuring a on-planet Factor would get paid say Cr 5000 a month, and
> the office and warehouse space would cost a similar amount - maybe twice
> this at an A starport, 75% at a C starport, 50% at a D and at an E he is
> the facility.

Office:  Base cr500/month  (Includes at least basic communication
capability and record storage)

Substandard - dingy office in a no-maintenance (no-maintenance performed,
not no-maintenance needed) building.  No administrative assistance
included (i.e. no secretary) - base x.5

Standard - small office.  Includes shared adminitrative facilities (you
share receptionist/secretary with one or more other tenants).  - base

Good - office suite in upscale building.  One or more offices to be
configured to customers requirement.  Includes exclusive administrative
assistance. - base x 3

Excellent - name the price, I'll tell you what you get...  :)

Modifiers:
Off-port: x1
downport: x2
Highport: x5

(downport and offport only)
Pop 1-3: x.5
Pop 4-6: x1
Pop 7-8: x2
pop 9: x5
pop A: x10


Long-term Warehousing:  cr10/ton per month

Substandard: Painted lines or fenced area when sub-leasing in a larger
facility.  Poorly constructed, or weather protection only, if you have
exclusive use of the building. -  base x .5

Standard: Some form of physical separation when sub-leasing in a larger
facility.  Well-constructed building if you have exclusive use of the
building.  Security is provided in the form of locks and the presence of a
(usually unarmed) shared (i.e. several buildings) security patrol. - base
x 1

Good: Hard wall separation and limited entry, when sub-leasing.  Alarmed
entry points.  Security is provided in the form of a monitored alarm with
a armed response team. - base x 2

Excellent - Same as above - tell me how much you want to pay...  :)

Use the same population and port modifiers.

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin
e-mail: douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\
MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP
*Unsolicited advertisements will be reported to the originating ISP*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:16:38 -0800
From: "Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing" <electric-stitch@w-link.net>
Subject: Black Globes / MT rules (Was Re: Droyne as PC's?) 

>Black globes didn't appear in CT until Book 5 (OK, Adventure 1 if you want
>to get picky). There's a reference in some later work (TNE Regency
>Sourcebook?) to black globed ships emerging from jump, coasting up on an
>unsuspecting planet which could only detect them by stellar occultation,
>and frying them with meson fire. Can't remember if they had to exit jump
>before switching the globes on.
>


Well, I was wrong about book 3. It was in the MT:Referee's Manual. Having
re-read my CT books I had read through MT as well. I just didn't remember
right.

Page 96, MT: Referee's Manual:
"Suppose, for instance, that a fleet were to jump into a system with its
black globes on and its velocity set upon a predetermined course."

Sounds to me like they can be on while in jump...

I have a question about starship combat in MT concerning the To Hit and To
Pen tables in the Ref's Manual.

It says that to hit a target: Difficult, OFF=Computer size, Weapon table DM,
range DM; Def = Def dm (Confrontation)

To Pen: Difficult, Off = computer size, Penetration table DM; Def =computer
size (confrontation)

Does this seem right?

It seems awfully easy to hit and penetrate.

I'll use a far trader for example:

Computer model = 1
DefDM +3
Assume triple turret missile launcher TL-13 Factor 3
Sand Caster TL-10 Factor 4

To Hit another ship (same config) It would be difficult, 1 (computer size)
+5 (to hit table); -3 (defDM)
Result: roll 11+ with a DM of +3 (net roll of 8+) 42% chance to hit.

To Pen Sand difficult, 1 (computer size + 5 (to pen table); -1 (computer
size)
Result 11+ with a DM of +5 (net roll of 6+) 72% chance to penetrate.

It seems awfully easy to penetrate. I would have thought it would be easier
to hit and harder to penetrate.

Also, The Ref's Manual says that for each Factor the weapon is over the UCP
size of the craft causes a critical hit. (-1 crit for every 3 levels of
armor over 40)

In the above example, the missiles would automatically cause a critical hit.

Does this seem wrong?

I haven't seen TNE or T4. Is the starship combat much better? Our group here
play a mix of CT and MT.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:24:53 +0000
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@friko.onet.pl>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

On 13 Jan 98, Kenji Schwarz disseminated foul capitalist propaganda 
by writing:

<snip>
> You, sir... or should I say, comrade? -- are sounding suspiciously
> like some sort of pinko socialist ideologue.  Please try to keep in
> mind that Communism Has Been Proven Not to Work :|

Or so you say, Comarade Kenji. 

Please follow us. 


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@friko.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike; 
 Amber fan and Star Wars junkie; UIN 6947998; WTF TKD; FIAWOL; YMMV; IMAO; SNAFU
  FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (SS) (PC) (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/HSP
  MONEY TALKS ...   but all mine ever says is GOODBYE!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:49:07 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: ROM, The Long Night and Mileu 0

Scott Spieker wrote:
> 
>         I have been reading an old series of books called "Foundation" written by
> Isaac Asimov around 1952.  It high lights the effects of a galactic empire
> that is brought down by rebellion, slowing economics, and a general

<SNIP!>
 
>         As I read through each of the novels it corresponds loosely with the idea
> of ROM and the long night.  I thought to myself that this series would make
> for an excellent background for a Pocket Empire campaign as well as
> Traveller or Imperial Squadrons, but I lean more towards the idea of Pocket

And not coincidentally, either.

If I recall correctly, Foundation was one of the main contributing
inspirations for the Imperium and its historical background...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:10:47 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: re"Space Combat System

Dom Mooney writes:
>
>>Overall I am very impressed.  The game is fast, simple, and quick to
>
>>learn.  Hopefully T4.1 will be as good.
>
>
>
>Something that I wholeheartedly agree with. Although if I play TBP I'll be
>
>using T4 or T4.1 as the rules.

Odd.  I may well be using The Babylon Project (TBP) rules to run
Traveller.  :-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:36:08 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

On 01/12/98 @ 10:29 PM, David J. Golden <goldendj@pcisys.net> said:

>Folks,
> Several people have suggested I owe Mr. Flores a public apology,
>and I agree. My response to his "FCC Modem Tax" warning failed
>miserably in its attempt to be a gentle jab, and came across
>instead as a public attack and an attempt to humiliate him.
>
>Mr. Flores,
> I apologize for the tone of my response to your email. My
>sarcasm, in an attempt to stop the hoax dead in its tracks, went
>way over the line, and was uncalled for. I should have simply
>pointed out that the information was a hoax, and left it at that.


Who of us hasn't said something fasicioulsy, only to find in hindsight it
was not that funny.  In fact find that the cute/clever/ironic/sarcastic/etc.
little saying, may have seemed somewhat hateful?  I know I have.  So, I
would like to publicly accept Mr. Golden's apology and ask everyone who was
upset over the incident to allow it to die a peaceful death by inattention.

As a newbie, I am somewhat susseptable to the type of hoaxing that may have
been involved in the letter I forwarded to the TML.  However, I am still not
convinced that it was a hoax.  It dovetails with some things I heard on the
news, and is in keeping with some of the things I know about the way
telephone service providers work.  And, I still have not heard anything from
the FCC regarding my first letter of inquiry.  Since I have been having some
trouble with my mail (asside from the TML), it may have simply got lost.  If
someone else out there checked and found out something concrete, I would
appreciate a private forward of the communication.

There is one more thing that may need to be cleared up.  The subject in
question does not seem to be an "FCC Modem Tax", but a proposal to allow
TSP's to charge a per minute rate on internet connections.

> "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
>  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he
>  establishes a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine


I have left the above portion of Mr. Golden's signature because I, like Mr
Golden^, am proud of the words of the founding fathers of our nation.  No
truer words have been spoken than those of Mr. Paine quoted above.  I hope
that Mr. Golden will consider himself my friend and not my enemy, and I hope
that the animosity will end with his apology and my acceptance of same.


^I know a bit about how Mr. Golden feels from visiting his web sight
 http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:24:46 -0800
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
Subject: Missile Design Question

I'm working on designing standard missiles for any given launcher (i.e.
7m^3 and 7t) in FFS2, and I'm winding up with Controlled missiles that have
essentially Unlimited endurance until I push the G-rating on the T Plates
high enough to max out the mass.

I have the FFS2 erratta, so I don't KNOW of any mistakes I'm making. It's
just that the Fusion+ plant that powers the T Plates uses so little fuel.

Is this right ? ...or am I missing something really obvious.


Schoon

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:01:10 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

On 1/13/98 @ 12:21 AM, J-Man quoted someone (Dave Golden?) as saying:

>>         I'll bet you two bits their information came from a similar
>> place as the original email. FWIW, this hoax has been going
>> around since 1987, and everyone was up in arms about the attack
>> on that bastion of information freedom, the dial-up BBS. Anybody
>> remember those?


I guess I missed the original of this one.  We have over 100 dial-up BBS's
that are still oporational in my dialing area.  They are a great place to
get and/or exchange freeware and shareware.


Then said:

>Well Dave, the only reason I'm wondering is because Silicon Valley News
>while not 'big', isn't a tabloid either.  I'd think they would have
>their information correct before publishing?


I used to think that the journalists were responsible, I even wanted to be
one at one time.  In my classes at a well known (for producing qualified
journalists) university here in the heartland, we were taught that making
sure of information was a big part of the journalist's job.  However, it
seems that like a lot of other jobs that people go to school for, what you
learn in journalism school may not be applied in real life.

>Anyway, I'm still waiting for a response from them.

Hopefully they will report back soon and you can let us know what they say.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:39:35 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

In regards to Silicon Valley's Mercury News, they have not yet replied
to me on the issue, when other times I emailed them the response was
quite prompt and within the same day.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:53:09 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Black globes in jump

On 1/13/98 at 12:54 AM  Electric Stitch Custom Digitizing
<electric-stitch@w-link.net> said:


>On another subject from a while back. There was discussion about the
effects
>of a black globe used while in Jump. If I remember, it was decided that
>something terrible would happen to the ship (destruction, misjump, etc.)
>After re-reading my CT books I came across a paragraph describing black
>globes. (I believe it was in starship book #3) Anyways, it mentioned ships
>coming out of jump with their black globes on. Is this an oversight in the
>writing of the book or is it actually possible to have a black globe on
>while in jump?


I don't know about CT, but in T4, the jump drives require .018 megawatts of
energy per cubic meter of ship in order to keep the bubble of normal space
in tact.  Would it be possible to get that energy to the "jump bubble" with
the black globes on?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:53:38 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Biochemistries, Part III

Loren Wiseman wrote:

[big snip]
>Part of the fun is coming up with reasons why each race is slightly unique --
>I think we all agree on that?

This is sort of an aside, but it seems to me that a part of this sort of
problem lies in the customary use (shared by lots of other sci-fi) of the
term "race" to describe separate species.  To me, it definitely adds to the
atmosphere of "humans in furry/scaly suits playing at _Daimyos & Damsels_"
(etc.)  Terming these populations as "alien races" suggests that their
difference from us (however "us" might be construed) is of the same degree
as the differences among the pseudobiological social categories within our
species.  Like I Loren says, Aslan have as much in common with humans as
eggplants do; why not call eggplants and lichen "Terran races"?  Because
they're not "intelligent" (unlike, for example, elected officials), or
because they're harder to dress up actors/NPCs in suits to look like?


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:53:42 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Move over, Sayat machine translators!

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>Sounds like a *bad* porn novel I kept because it was *so* bad. They
>rather obviously took a story that was hetero and converted it to
>"lesbian" by using global search and replace. With *no* further
>editing... This makes for stuff that has to be seen to be believed!

This is maybe an efficient way of handling the dearth of intentional
butch/femme porn^H^H^H^H erotica.  (Yes, my un-PC soul will be probably be
darned to the deepest pits of heck for saying such a thing.  See y'all
there.)

I'm entertaining myself by doing global search-and-replaces on the etext of
"Varney, the Vampyre; or, the Feast of Blood."  It's becoming "Varney, the
Bunny Rabbit; or, the Feast of Carrots".

     "The bunny hopped forward into the moonlight, its hideous floppetty
     ears gleaming in the silvery rays, tiding no smurfiness to poor Flora!"

On a similar topic...  I helped proofread a little handbook for the
Japanese sex tour circuit back in the mid-80s.  Japanese-English-Thai.  It
was apparently written by someone living in the early Victorian period.
"Pardon me, madam: are you a harlot?"  "I want to view your bosom.  How
much?"  "Please have a pair of catamites brought to my chambers."  The job
of fashioning it into good modern English was entrusted, in all good but
misplaced faith, to a pair of well-disguised Anglophone pervs, who chortled
evilly over it in their office and emerged to solemnly announce that it
looked fine and fluent just as it was.  ISTR that we did insist that they
offer "lady of the night" as a more genteel alternative to "harlot",
however.

So, I guess, the moral of the story is that human translators aren't
intrinsically more reliable than the machines.

No, I will NOT write a Galanglic-Sayat tourist phrasebook.
No, I will NOT write a Galanglic-Sayat tourist phrasebook.
No, I will NOT write a Galanglic-Sayat tourist phrasebook.
[...]

Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:53:48 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Public Apology

Glenn Hoppe wrote:

>Jim Cooper wrote:
>>
>> Kenji Schwarz wrote:
[snip]
>> > You, sir... or should I say, comrade? -- are sounding suspiciously like
>> > some sort of pinko socialist ideologue.  Please try to keep in mind that
>> > Communism Has Been Proven Not to Work :|
>> <snip>
>> I do not agree that (true) Communism has proven not to work. Where in
>> the world have we ever had (true) Communism. It goes against the grain
>> of Capitalism and so must be obliterated by whatever means or so the
>> feeling goes. No, I,m not a sympathyser.
>
>I didn't get the feeling that Kenji believes this either. The smilie -->
>:| <-- seems to denote a humourless sarcasm. Y'know, an ironic jab at
>the cold war propaganda we are all *supposed* to swallow ...
>
>O'course I don't pretend to speak for Kenji, I'll let him clarify the
>meaning of his cryptic remark. :)

I am a sympathizer.


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2227
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, January 13 1998     Volume 1997 : Number 2228



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: A cry for help
Re: Public Apology
Re: Public Apology
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
FCC/local telco's
Re: Public Apology
Re: Public Apology
Re: Public Apology
CD ROM project
Re: Biochemistries, Part III
Re: Public Apology/ long off topic rant
Annilak Run
PAW?
New Technology
Re: Crew accomodations
Re: Annilak Run
Re: PAW?
Re: TL9 Big PAW
Off topic rant / "New" Traveller item.
Annililik Run (Adventure 3)
Re: ROM, The Long Night and Mileu 0
Re: Public Apology
T4 release update? and Hello, the list
Re: Public Apology
Re: Public Apology
Re: Biochemistries
Re: Core Sector Geography

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:56:20 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: A cry for help

One of what races?

- -----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, January 13, 1998 1:17 AM
Subject: A cry for help


>help
>
>I remember coming across a webpage with some info on one of these races,
>but I can't for the life of me remember who's it was. Can anyone help.
>
>Thank you
>
>  Andrew etc.
>    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
>    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm (general)
>    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/abuse/abuse.htm (sexual abuse pages)
>    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/traveller.htm (Traveller pages)
>
>***************************************************************************
*
>We're digging a hole in the road, you can't go up, you can't go down
>you'll have to wait to drive around
>***************************************************************************
*
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:47:21 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

> Although, in the same vein, I miss those halcyon days when BBSes roamed the
> earth freely (*sigh*)...  There's under a dozen BBSes in the Philadelphia area
> now, and the activity level is extremely low.  
> 
> Semo
> 

I know how you feel, Semo.  I used to run a COMMODORE BBS, and we were
all linked thru our CBASE software to each other all over the USA.  Of
course, unlike fidonet, all us sysops had to pay our own long distance
fees, which got really expensive with all the packet downloading we did.

I haven't ran my BBS in 3 years.  Sigh.  The good ole days, eh?  :)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:48:51 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

> You, sir... or should I say, comrade? -- are sounding suspiciously like
> some sort of pinko socialist ideologue.  Please try to keep in mind that
> Communism Has Been Proven Not to Work :|
> 
> 
> Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com


I disagree.  And in fact, Communism doesn't work because it assumes the
ones in power have your best interests at heart.  Yea right, not in THIS
lifetime!  :)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:54:09 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

> The last line seems to be a closing. Meaning unclear. The placement of
> the numeral at the boottom seems to indicate it is intended as a
> signature. Again, significance, unknown.
> 
> The message was printed on a cellulose based material (paper) with a
> "watermark" image that has been identified as a primitive Solomani
> vehicle known as a "bicycle". Again, significance is unknown.
> 


"The Prisoner", starring Patrick Macgoohan (sp), as #6.

Who is #1?  :)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:09:23 EST
From: Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com>
Subject: FCC/local telco's

	The best source (I know of) for the Telco/ISP debates curently is Infoworld
(I'll leave it at that) and related communications matters.

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:21:53 -0700
From: Steve Deemer <stedee@auto-trol.com>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

Kenji Scharwz wrote:

>Glenn Hoppe wrote:
>
>>Jim Cooper wrote:
>>>
>>> Kenji Schwarz wrote:
>[snip]
>>> > You, sir... or should I say, comrade? -- are sounding suspiciously
like
>>> > some sort of pinko socialist ideologue.  Please try to keep in
mind that
>>> > Communism Has Been Proven Not to Work :|
>>> <snip>
>>> I do not agree that (true) Communism has proven not to work. Where
in
>>> the world have we ever had (true) Communism. It goes against the
grain
>>> of Capitalism and so must be obliterated by whatever means or so the
>>> feeling goes. No, I,m not a sympathyser.
>>
>>I didn't get the feeling that Kenji believes this either. The smilie
- -->
>>:| <-- seems to denote a humourless sarcasm. Y'know, an ironic jab at
>>the cold war propaganda we are all *supposed* to swallow ...
>>
>>O'course I don't pretend to speak for Kenji, I'll let him clarify the
>>meaning of his cryptic remark. :)
>
>I am a sympathizer.

A fellow traveller, in other words.

Steve Deemer
stedee@auto-trol.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:37:50 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

Re: communism
 
> May I suggest a book - Looking Backward 2000-1887 by Edward Bellamy -
> which has a vaque similarity as to how it could be made to work - such
> that everyone benefits - equally - but alas it was all just a dream.

The operative word is _made_, in the sense of _forced_. I think the
problem with communism is that it fundamentally against human
nature.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:37:01 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

> I know a *lot* of folks with mail/news access to the net who couldn't
> *begin* to afford a grand from their computer. One of the reasons I
> have so much donated stuff is because I help put systems together for
> low income folks. So I get given a lot of "obsolete" computer gear.
> 
> And most of those low income folks get their access via a BBS I help
> run. The uucp link for that system is donated by an ISP I know. 
> 
> "Per minute" charges would kill *all* of that.
> 
> -- 


Thanks for backing me up, Leonard.  I knew I wasn't the only one who's
budget is stretched.  :)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:13:57 EST
From: Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com>
Subject: CD ROM project

	The CD-ROM project is moving along relatively well, but I wouldn't expect to
see a product till around GENCON '99 (at which time you will owe the
volunteers a lot of thanks for their dedication and effort).

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:14:37 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Biochemistries, Part III

> I apologize if I am over-reacting, but I get a litle tired of people
> concluding that Aslan (or other SF feline aliens) behave like cats because
> they look like cats. We used to get questions all the time about this. One
> JTAS submission lo these many years ago described the most popular Aslan
> childrens' toy as being a large ball of yarn. 


Perhaps Aslan children play with things that human children would find
potentially deadly, or at least harmful.

Like sharpened bladed jacks and a ball?  Mini-Knives?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:38:36 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: Public Apology/ long off topic rant

ringrose@ascent.com writes:

>With that food for thought, can we _PLEASE_ drop the topic and return
>to traveller-related talk?  Do your research and send personal email
>with the results to the people who were actually involved in the
>telecom conversation, but keep it off the traveller list.

   This is one of those off-topic conversations I *do not* mind being on the
list, since it is something that can effect a large percentage of us, and it
is better to get rumors of pending action (or doom) squashed as quickly as
possible.

   **However**, I will say that it should probably be kept to rumor control
only, not discussions of larger issues, something I'm going to have call a
'mea culpa' on.  Thanks for the reminder.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:11:31 EST
From: Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com>
Subject: Annilak Run

	Yes James Ward did Gamma World and Metamorphosis Alpha (As I recall). I think
too many people requested the GW/Trav crossover because it looks like you got
it from what's been said so far.

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:39:32 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: PAW?

From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 13, 1998 3:34 AM


>What the heck does PAW stand for?

Would you believe Passive Assault Weapon?  ;-)

I didn't think so.  It stands for Particle Accelerator Weapon.

CPAW is a Charged PAW and NPAW is a Neutral PAW.

T4 design sequences may be found in FF&S p 52 ff.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:30:10 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: New Technology

Just got this on the Web :

> Lightcraft
> 
> The laser-propelled vehicle, called "Lightcraft" because it flies on a beam
> of laser light, is designed to harness the energy of a laser beam and
> convert it into propulsive thrust. The Lightcraft receives the kilojoule
> pulses from a laser at a rate of 10 times per second upon the concentrating
> mirror that forms its rear section. The function of this parabolic mirror is
> to focus the pulsed laser energy into a ring-shaped "absorption/propulsion"
> chamber. Here the laser beam is concentrated to extremely high intensities,
> sufficient to momentarily burst the inlet air into a highly luminous plasma
> (10-30,000 K), with instantaneous pressures reaching tens of atmospheres
> providing thrust.
> 
> Links:
> 
> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute http://lightcraft.meche.rpi.edu/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:55:38 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: Crew accomodations

Michael Koehne writes:

>>    By the Modern ("Imperial") Era, we are told that such functions that
>> could be handled by robots are performed within the "box" (the computer
>> systems and electronics) itself.  This explains why robots are not routinely
>> used on naval vessels (or merchants for that matter) in the Third Imperium.
>
>	Well from the Referees Companion page 35 ff. claimed that Dover
>	Gabe (Sylea) produced robots for naval service between -143 and
>	-122, when the "Empires Banner" accident happend.

   Ah yes, I'd forgotten about that one.  Certainly that provides some canon
explanation as to 'why'.  My bit comes from Marc, unless of course he's
changed his mind since Gencon a year and a half ago.  :-)

>> Near sentient intelligent robots were being tested by the navy as
>> replacements for humans as pilots and other for other tasks, but that
>> testing ceased with the Rebellion.
>
>	I think robots on board had been quite common in the late 3I,
>	as crew requirements in MT are much lower than in TNE or T4,
>	Especialy on larger ships.

   Well *automation* certainly (in "T4" FF&S terms, 'high' automation versus
'normal' automation), and late in the Rebellion that might have included
robots as trained crew became increasingly harder to find.

   You have to remember as well that those crew requirements were driven by
game mechanics, and like thruster plates, subject to change without notice.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:01:00 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Annilak Run

>        Yes James Ward did Gamma World and Metamorphosis Alpha (As I recall). I think
> too many people requested the GW/Trav crossover because it looks like you got
> it from what's been said so far.
> 
> Bryan
> 


There's a Gamma World/Traveller crossover supplement?  What is it, and
where can it be had?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:01:50 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: PAW?

> What the heck does PAW stand for?
> 
> Would you believe Passive Assault Weapon?  ;-)
> 
> I didn't think so.  It stands for Particle Accelerator Weapon.
> 
> CPAW is a Charged PAW and NPAW is a Neutral PAW.
> 
> T4 design sequences may be found in FF&S p 52 ff.


I have no way to get my hands on that supplement.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:31:43 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: TL9 Big PAW

Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> 
> At 01:02 AM 1/13/98 -0800, you wrote:
> >What the heck does PAW stand for?
> 
> Particle Accelerator Weapon.
> 
> Doug.


We have those today, don't we?  Utilizing ferrous mass in a cyclotron
until near C velocities then discharging the energetic mass?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:05:34 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Off topic rant / "New" Traveller item.

>Short off topic comment, in response to Bruce Johnson's "long off
>topic rant"
>
>I recall reading that telephone companies want ISPs declared common
>carriers, like long distance companies, because you can purchase
>software which allows you to, effectively, make a long distance call
>over the Internet.  Free, except for local charges.
>
>With that food for thought, can we _PLEASE_ drop the topic and return
>to traveller-related talk?  Do your research and send personal email
>with the results to the people who were actually involved in the
>telecom conversation, but keep it off the traveller list.

Interesting how many times (not just on this list) somebody adds their two
cents to an off-topic discussion, and then a paragraph later says, "Okay,
that's enough, we're done with that now!"

Hmmm...

Just an observation.  However, just because I feel like being on topic right
now I present a new item I had uploaded onto the list a few months ago.  It
has since been prettied up a bit and the description is a little more
coherent.  But, before I go on, would anyone be interested in a web-site
devoted to Traveller devices/items/tools that steer away from the "Boom and
Vroom" technologies.  No weapons, some small personal vehicles if appropriate.
Sort of like a Sears Catalog or a "whole realms" catalog like the one TSR
produced for the Forgotten Realms.

Microfoil:

Starship crews, surface teams, military and mercenary units, and those in the
civilian sector all have a need to join metals at one time or another.  Tanks
of fuel and oxygen require a good deal of volume and can be quite heavy.

Microfoil is the solution to this problem.  Microfoil is made up of a number
of extremely thin layers consisting of boron, carbon, silica or aluminum
combined with a transition metal.  The different components are selected
carefully to ensure a self-propagating, high temperature exothermic reaction
when exposed to a small amount of heat (such as the spark from a battery, or a
match or lighter, for example).  The temperature is high enough to melt a
filler to make a weld.  The thinner the layer, the less time the reaction
takes, and the less time oxygen has to mix with the metals, so the joints are
stronger then those welded with more traditional welding equipment.  The
layers of foil are generally between 20 atoms and 2,000 nanometers across.

The technology is introduced at TL9, but it is prohibitively expensive due to
the exacting specifications the foils must be made to.  At TL10, the
production process is refined, but still rather expensive.  By TL12, microfoil
can be made cheaply and easily.

Microfoil welding kits will vary in mass and price, due mostly to the
availability of the filler metals and the strength of the joints required.
Most members of a starship engineering crew, as well as combat engineers and
many mechanics will have thick pen-sized electrical "sparkers" to perform on
the spot welds when required.  The foils themselves mass very little (the
average packet weighs about as much as a small notepad, and contains several
hundred applications).

TL9     Cr2,000 per application.  (About 25-50% more for starship hull grade)
TL10    Cr500 per application.  (About 10-25% more for starship hull grade)
TL11    Cr25 per application.  (No extra change for starship hull grade)

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:27:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Annililik Run (Adventure 3)

Has anyone else seen this?  I bought it a couple of weeks ago.


Clark

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:10:48 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: ROM, The Long Night and Mileu 0

>	I have been reading an old series of books called "Foundation" written by
>Isaac Asimov around 1952.  It high lights the effects of a galactic empire
>that is brought down by rebellion, slowing economics, and a general
>distrust of the impersonal Imperial government.  The series highlights the
>foreshadowed knowledge of such an occurrence which under 'normal'
>circumstances would have left the galaxy in ruins for well over 30,000
>years.  But one man's psycohistoric examination and projections would lead
>a small group of scientists to 'preserve' knowledge through the Long night
>following the collapse of the interstellar Imperium.  (Sound a little
>traveller like yet?)

Although probably incorrect, I'd thought that Foundation was a huge influence
on Traveller.  So much of the Foundation series made it into Traveller that I
believed that the Foundation series is to Traveller as the Lord of the Rings
was to D&D.

Of course, seeing as the Foundation series was one of the earliest major "hard
sci-fi" works, it may be that alot of the ideas filtered down through other
sci-fi to eventually end up in Traveller.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:13:20 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

>You, sir... or should I say, comrade? -- are sounding suspiciously like
>some sort of pinko socialist ideologue.  Please try to keep in mind that
>Communism Has Been Proven Not to Work :|

Hmmm...  Guess somebody forgot to tell Cuba.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:03:03 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: T4 release update? and Hello, the list

Hello, all.
I was on the list this last summer, but was too busy this fall to
partake or even play.
But now I'm trying to play again.

When last I left the list, I was really enjoying playtesting with a beta
of T4 character generation rewrites.  Have there been any changes?  Is
there a newer version available.
As I recall, there was a lot of interesting discussion about promotion
rates and rank titles for Marines (adding "Force" to distinguish them
from the Navy.), as well as Rogues masquerading as under cover agents,
and conflicts of Imperial Law, bounty hunters, etc.  It seemed that Marc
had decided on some changes.

I appreciate any info.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:59:56 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

At 03:36 pm 1/13/98 -0600, you wrote:
>that Mr. Golden will consider himself my friend and not my
enemy, and I hope
>that the animosity will end with his apology and my acceptance
of same.

	There's no animosity on my part to end, frankly, not even for
your ... determined ... defender (although the flames were flying
high). I'm glad to hear there's none on yours, as I never
intended to make an enemy.

	Incidentally, the CIAC provided the following URL as a
reference: http://www.fcc.gov/isp.html. Quoting: 

The NOI seeks comment on whether the FCC should, in addition to
access charge reform, consider actions relating to the
implications of information service and Internet access provider
usage of the public switched network. In particular, in light of
concerns raised over congestion on the public switched network,
the Commission seeks comment on how it can most effectively
create incentives for the deployment of services and facilities
to allow more efficient transport of data traffic to and from end
users.
The Commission made no specific proposals, but tentatively
concluded that providers of information services (including
Internet
service providers) should not be subject to the interstate access
charges that local telephone companies currently assess on
long-distance carriers.

	And honestly, every time I see the original message again (about
once a year or so), I have to check AGAIN to see if it's still a
hoax. Like many, I firmly believe in the propensity of American
business to lean towards legislative solutions to problems
competing. I wouldn't trust the phone companies (especially
Useless West) as far as I can throw them. But given the
bureaucratic nature of the FCC, anything without a docket or case
number is immediately eliminated as most likely being a hoax.
Plus, I'm sure my ISP and yours would immediately provide you
with as much information as necessary if it were really serious.
Then I'd be concerned.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj
- --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he
establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:30:44 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

>I know how you feel, Semo.  I used to run a COMMODORE BBS, and we were
>all linked thru our CBASE software to each other all over the USA.  Of
>course, unlike fidonet, all us sysops had to pay our own long distance
>fees, which got really expensive with all the packet downloading we did.
>
>I haven't ran my BBS in 3 years.  Sigh.  The good ole days, eh?  :)

Yep.  The good ol' days.  I guess its a trade off.  I can communicate with
Traveller people all over the world in a timely fashion, but talking to local
folk is quite a bit harder...

The internet tears down borders, but that's not always a good thing.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:45:02 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Biochemistries

On Tue, 1/13/98,  Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE> said:


>On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Richard A. Flores wrote:
>
>> Good point Loren.  Coming from such different genetic backgrounds, it is
>> quite possible that the above mentioned stimulants and depressants would
>> either be deadly poisons or of no effect at all.  However, if they have a
>> nervous system at all simular to the Terran variety, they (the plants)
might
>> affect them just as they do us and other Terrans.
>>
>I agree with that - different evolutionary backgrounds, different
>biochemistry. Biochem is that complex, I know that, I studied some of it.
>But some similarities have to be kept: All life as we know it in the
>Traveller Universe uses biochemistry. And, as found in the Astrochemistry,
>some amino and nucleic acids have a) been found in space and b) could be
>made by only choosing the proposed conditions on pre-age earth.
>So those little molecules should exist on quite a lot of worlds.
>So even Aslan, K'Kree and Hiver could use parts of the same nucleic acids
>for their DNA and make proteins from amino acids, only the transkriptase
>will work in an other way. Who knows if Yaskoydray took aout some of his
>DNA and put it into human- (and vargr-)kind?
>So, what I want to say, as those little molecules are likely to exist on
>other worlds, and life is based on little ones as on the macromolecules,
>they will also have effects on alien life. That these effects are very
>different, I agree, will be right. Think again of the shown molecules:
>
>> >> Coffee - coffeine
>> >> Tea    - teine
>> >> Cacao  - theobromine
>> >> Chocl. - theophylline
>
>If you examine their chemical structure, you will find similarities, as
>these are derivatives of one another. The alkaloids are such a big class
>of molecules that all have effects on human life. So why wouldn't they on
>aliens, too?
>
>Ok, we can discuss that on and on. That's why I asked for more molecules.
>
>L.A.


OK, how about...
tobbacco-nicotine
cannabis-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC)
opium poppy-morphine
                        codine
peyote-mescaline ==> lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD)
coca-cocaine
belladonna and other night shades
nutmeg and mace-

>P.S. The resemblance of Aslan - Cats I think comes from the oftern used
>feline aliens in the SF. You don't want to say you didn't think of lions,
>when you invented this race for Traveller, did you?


IIRC, in one of the sources, the Aslan were supposed to be descendants of
Terran cats.  They were captured by the ancients and  transported elsewhere.
After genetic manipulation, the neo-cats were released to develop on their
own.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:52:11 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Core Sector Geography

SD Mooney wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I've just been going through the Core sector data in M0 in detail, and
> although I know that the text differs from the First Survey data, here are
> the results of what I've found so far....
>
> Chanestin Kingdom (-1304 to 2)
>
> 25 other worlds within 5 parsecs of Keshi - suggest the following
>
>



I got much the same as you, but some differences.
First, I take 25 systems to mean roughly 25.
Second, I didn't count barren systems against the 25 (although I count them as
part of the empire, as refuelling depots, and such)

(Both of these are arguably non-canon).

Third, because the home world is TL8 compared to Sylea just reaching TL12 at
Year 0,
I required all the systems to be on a Jump-1 main from 1938-Keshi, due to low
jump tech levels.


This gives the following:
31 systems total (all within 5 parsecs of Keshi) (one at 2001 in Massilia, the
rest Core)
- -2 Santry (1736) and Cordova (1836)
- -2 systems spinward of Santry and Cordova
27 remain.
- -3 barren systems (1738, 2135, 2136) (up to you, but works for me)
24 remain.
Close enough for government work.

Santry/Cordova
Take these systems out of the equation, as well as the 2 systems spinward.
After all, the book didn't say *all* the systems within 5 parsecs.So heres
what I get:1437,

> 1538
> 1539
> 1638
> 1737
> 1738 - Barren
> 1739
> 1837
> 1838
> 1839
> 1840
> 1938    KESHI - CAPITAL OF CK
> 2034

> 2036

2037

> 2038
> 2040

2001 Massilia

> 2135 ba
> 2136 ba
> 2138
> 2139
> 2140

22372338
2437

> (Note there is a second Keshi at 0816 but this seems to correspond to the
> heart of the Interstellar Confederacy)

That drove me nuts until I noticed the second one.

[snip IC stuff]

> The Santry/Cordova cluster
>
> 1736    Santry
> 1836    Cordova
>
> These are in the middle of the Chanestin Kingdom's cluster, which I would
> argue means that it would be swamped and fall during the Chanestin/Sylean
> wars.

Happen to know the page references to the Santry/Cordova deal?  I'm probably
staring right at it, but I can't find it.


Bloo

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2228
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, January 13 1998     Volume 1997 : Number 2229



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Santry and Cordova
Re: Move over, Sayat machine translators!
Re: TL9 Big PAW
Re: T4 release update? and Hello, the list
re: Missile Design Question
Re: Biochemistries, Part III
Re: Public Apology
Re: Biochemistries
Re: #traveller topic
Re: Public Apology
RE: Traveller-digest V1997 #2228
Re: Droyne as PC's?
Communism
Forms of Communication [Was Public Apology]
Re: ROM, The Long Night and Mileu 0
GAL: Call for Worlds & Sectors
Re: A cry for help
Re: Missile Design Question
Foundation
Re: Biochemistries, Part III
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2214
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2214

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:02:56 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Santry and Cordova

Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com wrote:

> >The problem worlds are Santry and Cordova...
> I wrote the bits on Santry and Cordova in the Rules. Someone else decided
> to place them at that place in Core. I thought it was daft as they were
> supposed to be two pocket empires in conflict, yet their mainworlds were
> Jump-1 apart. It doesen't meet at all with the text in the rules unless you
> assume that when they split the capital moved. (Like Terra isn't the
> capital of the Solomani.)

Hell, we had three popes at the same time. Why not?

> >These are in the middle of the Chanestin Kingdom's cluster, which I would
> >argue means that it would be swamped and fall during the Chanestin/Sylean
> >wars.
> I haven't been tracking the info on the Chanestin Kingdom. I was going to
> get around to placing Santry and Cordova a week or so ago which is when I
> noticed that someone had already placed them. Maybe I should just go ahead
> a find a place for them and ignore what is in First Survey. After all, it
> doesn't match the description in the rules.

That would be fine, but may I suggest that you *not* use the systems given as
examples of pocket empires in Pocket Empires?

> Cheers,
> Jo
>
> PS: If anyone is interested in more about Santry and Cordova there is some
> additional material. Hasn't quite made it into another publication yet...

  Hmmm.  Tempting.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:14:16 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Move over, Sayat machine translators!

At 02:53 PM 1/13/98 -0800, you wrote:

>On a similar topic...  I helped proofread a little handbook for the
>Japanese sex tour circuit back in the mid-80s.  Japanese-English-Thai.  It
>was apparently written by someone living in the early Victorian period.
>"Pardon me, madam: are you a harlot?"  "I want to view your bosom.  How
>much?"  "Please have a pair of catamites brought to my chambers."  The job
>of fashioning it into good modern English was entrusted, in all good but
>misplaced faith, to a pair of well-disguised Anglophone pervs, who chortled
>evilly over it in their office and emerged to solemnly announce that it
>looked fine and fluent just as it was.  ISTR that we did insist that they
>offer "lady of the night" as a more genteel alternative to "harlot",
>however.

You realize that now every other phrase put out the translator will be "I
want to view your bosom."

>No, I will NOT write a Galanglic-Sayat tourist phrasebook.
>No, I will NOT write a Galanglic-Sayat tourist phrasebook.
>No, I will NOT write a Galanglic-Sayat tourist phrasebook.

Oh yes, you will.  But only after watching the "Hungarian phrasebook"
sketch by MPFC about thirty times.

My nipples tingle with excitment!


- --
+---------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net |
|        http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
+---------------------------------------------+
| "Strategy is the art of making use of time  |
|  and space.  I am less concerned about the  |
|  latter than the former.  Space we can      |
|  recover, lost time never."                 |
|         -Napoleon Bonaparte, French soldier |
+---------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:28:14 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: TL9 Big PAW

At 03:31 PM 1/13/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>> 
>> At 01:02 AM 1/13/98 -0800, you wrote:
>> >What the heck does PAW stand for?
>> 
>> Particle Accelerator Weapon.
>> 
>> Doug.
>
>
>We have those today, don't we?  Utilizing ferrous mass in a cyclotron
>until near C velocities then discharging the energetic mass?

I think you are thinking of mass drivers.  Different concept.  A PAW fires
a stream of energetic particles (as in atomic patrticles) towards the
target.  A MD accelerates a chunk of ferrous metal using a magnetic field.
- --
+---------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net |
|        http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
+---------------------------------------------+
| "Fixed fortifications are monuments to the  |
|  stupidity of man."  -Gen. George S. Patton |
+---------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:25:48 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: T4 release update? and Hello, the list

At 08:03 PM 1/13/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Hello, all.
>I was on the list this last summer, but was too busy this fall to
>partake or even play.
>But now I'm trying to play again.
>
>When last I left the list, I was really enjoying playtesting with a beta
>of T4 character generation rewrites.  Have there been any changes?  Is
>there a newer version available.
>As I recall, there was a lot of interesting discussion about promotion
>rates and rank titles for Marines (adding "Force" to distinguish them
>from the Navy.), as well as Rogues masquerading as under cover agents,
>and conflicts of Imperial Law, bounty hunters, etc.  It seemed that Marc
>had decided on some changes.

The alternate Marine ranks were mine, and as far as I know, they won't be
used.  Here they are for your pleasure:

Imperial Navy Infantry Force Rank Stucture

E-1 Private (PVT)
E-2 Private First Class (PFC)
E-3 Lance Corporal (LCPL)
E-4 Corporal (CPL)
E-5 Sergeant (SGT)
E-6 Staff Sergeant/Technical Sergeant (SSGT/TSGT)
E-7 Gunnery Sergeant (GSGT)
E-8 Ship's Sergeant (ShSGT)
E-9 Fleet Sergeant (FSGT)
    Command Fleet Sergeant (CFSGT)
    Senior Command Fleet Sergeant (SCFLT)

O-1 Force Ensign (FEN)
O-2 Force Lieutenant (FLT)
O-3 Force Leader (FLDR)
O-4 Major (MAJ)
O-5 Force Commander (FCMDR)
O-6 Colonel (COL)
O-7 Brigade Leader (BL)
O-8 Lieutenant General (LG)
O-9 Major General (MG)
O-10 General (GEN)
- --
+---------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net |
|        http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
+---------------------------------------------+
|    "But think of Korea, of Guadalcanal, of  |
| Belleau Wood, of Viet Nam.  The H-bomb did  |
| not abolish the infantryman; it made him    |
| essential... and he has the toughest job of |
| all and should be honored."                 |
|                       - Robert Heinlein     |
+---------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:28:28 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Missile Design Question

>I have the FFS2 erratta, so I don't KNOW of any mistakes I'm making. It's
>just that the Fusion+ plant that powers the T Plates uses so little fuel.

>Is this right ? ...or am I missing something really obvious.
One thing that you're missing is that thruster plates have a minimum
size - about 10m3 - so you can't fit them in a small missile.

14m3 missiles, on the other hand, can have T-plates in them and will
indeed have infinite endurance (though they'll be damned expensive.)
I argued to make thruster plates bigger at one point but was
overrulled...

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:30:25 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Biochemistries, Part III

J-Man wrote:

> > I apologize if I am over-reacting, but I get a litle tired of people
> > concluding that Aslan (or other SF feline aliens) behave like cats because
> > they look like cats. We used to get questions all the time about this. One
> > JTAS submission lo these many years ago described the most popular Aslan
> > childrens' toy as being a large ball of yarn.
>
> Perhaps Aslan children play with things that human children would find
> potentially deadly, or at least harmful.
>
> Like sharpened bladed jacks and a ball?  Mini-Knives?

I think J-man's got a point here that leads to an explanation of why many think
that Aslan might act like earth cats.  I think its undeniably that much behavior
is biologically determined.  Each part of one's physiology is due insignificant
part to their biological evolution.  If a cat has claws, theirs a reason, and
that reason will affect behavior.  That reason is to snare and hold prey so the
killing bite can be applied.  Play behavior is usually training in some part for
adult behavior.  Cats are hunters, not always lone hunters (e.g., groups of
lionesses who hunt cooperatively).  They are to use their claws against each
other in play.  They are also trained to track movement more and strike.  So a
ball of yarn isn't exactly ridiculous for an infant Aslan.  Bladed jacks might
be especially useful to prepare an Aslan for the realities of combat, especially
pain tolerance or agility in avoiding damage).  I could go on about how humans
and how their behavior relates to biological factors, but we all know enough
about that I think.

What I'm basically saying, that we need to know the reason for the Aslan's
biological adaptation to even begin to figure out their culture.  (I'd speculate
but I don't have anything about the Aslan except for whats in T4).

To name them after a famous Literary Lion only begs for the connection to be
made in the readers mind.  If its artificial to attribute Terran Feline behavior
to Aslan, is it any less artificial to compare them to Terran Cultures?  I
suggest not.  (and even though its works, I've grown tired of the Samurai Cat in
a plethora of sci-fi over the years from Larry Niven to Wing Commander.)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:11:58 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Public Apology

Steve Deemer wrote:

>Kenji Scharwz wrote:
[snip]
>>I am a sympathizer.
>
>A fellow traveller, in other words.

Dear God!!!!!!!  I bet this ENTIRE LIST IS CHOCK-FULL OF PERVERTED
HUMAN-NATURE-DENYING COMMUNISTS!  That whole noble, bracing, morally
uplifting wet dream that is the Imperium has just been a clever SHAM to
cover up the TERRIBLE TRUTH that "Traveller" is nothing but a recruitment
tool for Godless atheistical FIENDS to seduce the troubled youth of America
into playing AD&D and thus worshipping demons.  I am STUNNED to learn the
sort of company I've been keeping all this time.

Shocked and dismayed,

Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:48:17 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Biochemistries

Richard A. Flores wrote:

> On Tue, 1/13/98,  Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE> said:
>
> >On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Richard A. Flores wrote:
>
> >P.S. The resemblance of Aslan - Cats I think comes from the oftern used
> >feline aliens in the SF. You don't want to say you didn't think of lions,
> >when you invented this race for Traveller, did you?
>
> IIRC, in one of the sources, the Aslan were supposed to be descendants of
> Terran cats.  They were captured by the ancients and  transported elsewhere.
> After genetic manipulation, the neo-cats were released to develop on their
> own.

If this is true, it make sense.  I think cats evolved smaller, but I'd have to
research to be sure.  I was surprised to learn a while back that most
researchers beleive that domesticated cats could never have survived without
human intervention due to a variety of reasons.  I know that a lot of
evolutionary scientists believe that early humans were driven to the forests and
water-rich areas of Africa (and thus losing the need for massive amounts of body
hair and adapting to swimming and operating underwater) to escape the big cats
which would have dominated the plains and savannahs and been undefeatable by
early homonids until weapons were developed.  Those big cats could easily have
appeared to be the dominant predators on the planet then.

Also interesting is that most breeds of dog existing today were consciously
created by humans.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:30:56 +0000
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: #traveller topic

> Say, does anyone know what the topic for Thursday's IRC bash is going to be?
> 
> </cue>

Geez, Kenji, when I said remind me, I kind of meant privately.... <G>

This week's topic will be Robots. We will meet on Undernet 
#traveller. Springfield is becoming the server of choice, with 
StLouis and Phoenix as good backups in that order (addresses to 
follow). We'll begin at 8:00pm Central, but there will most likely be 
early arrivals (like me <G>).

springfield.mo.us.undernet.org
stlouis.mo.us.undernet.org
phoenix.az.us.undernet.org

See you there!

Suz



Suzette C. Dollar
#Traveller Channel Manager
suzd@goodnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:35:57 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

At 07:37 PM 1/13/98 EST, you wrote:
>>You, sir... or should I say, comrade? -- are sounding suspiciously like
>>some sort of pinko socialist ideologue.  Please try to keep in mind that
>>Communism Has Been Proven Not to Work :|
>
>Hmmm...  Guess somebody forgot to tell Cuba.
>

Hmmm... Is this a suggestion that it's working there?    ;*)

Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:50:04 -0600
From: Robert Dittrich <dittrich@conceptserv.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1997 #2228

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD2064.D40A38A0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


>From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
>Re: communism
>
>The operative word is _made_, in the sense of _forced_. I think the
>problem with communism is that it fundamentally against human
>nature.

In *that* case, may I suggest Hobbes' _Leviathan_. The problem with MOST =
government (with the possible=20
exception of dog-eat-dog capitalism) is that it is against human nature. =
The whole point of government (according to Hobbes) is to coerce =
behavior.

Just my Cr100 worth...

- - D
- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD2064.D40A38A0
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD2064.D40A38A0--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:49:35 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Droyne as PC's?

Accually, I think that was in MT somewhere...

Yeah.. Knighfall by  GDW:

"The ships would turn on their black globes just before entering 
jump, thus entering normal space in the Kishan system with their 
black globes on"

It continues to give a intresting look at tactics with jump and BG's.

Cya

> 
> Black globes didn't appear in CT until Book 5 (OK, Adventure 1 if you want
> to get picky). There's a reference in some later work (TNE Regency
> Sourcebook?) to black globed ships emerging from jump, coasting up on an
> unsuspecting planet which could only detect them by stellar occultation,
> and frying them with meson fire. Can't remember if they had to exit jump
> before switching the globes on.
> 
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

186,000 Miles Per Second;
Not only a good idea, it's the law!

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:12:14 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Communism

On 1/13/98 at 2:20 PM Jim Cooper wrote:

Subject was: Re: Public Apology


>Kenji Schwarz wrote:
>>
>> Bruce Johnson wrote:
>>
>> >I feel the same way about outher legalized monopolies, like cable
systems.
><snip>
>>
>> You, sir... or should I say, comrade? -- are sounding suspiciously like
>> some sort of pinko socialist ideologue.  Please try to keep in mind that
>> Communism Has Been Proven Not to Work :|
><snip>
>I do not agree that (true) Communism has proven not to work. Where in
>the world have we ever had (true) Communism. It goes against the grain
>of Capitalism and so must be obliterated by whatever means or so the
>feeling goes. No, I,m not a sympathyser.
>May I suggest a book - Looking Backward 2000-1887 by Edward Bellamy -
>which has a vaque similarity as to how it could be made to work - such
>that everyone benefits - equally - but alas it was all just a dream.


There is one historical example of true communism.  It worked because all
the participants were voluntary and free to leave at any time.  This is also
why some of the communes formed in the US during the 60's and 70's were as
successful as they were (and some still are).

That historical example is the first century Christians.  They held
everything in common and if any of them needed they got.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 98 21:00:50 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Forms of Communication [Was Public Apology]

On 01/12/98 at 09:43 PM,  "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net> said:

>	I'll bet you two bits their information came from a similar
>place as the original email. FWIW, this hoax has been going
>around since 1987, and everyone was up in arms about the attack on that
>bastion of information freedom, the dial-up BBS. Anybody remember
>those?

I still run one. ;->  Red Duck Retreat 1:3662/51 850-995-0394

There are about 35 BBS's still active in this area.  No, we aren't as busy
as we used to be, but we're still out there.  

I'll bet there's a BBS near you that would welcome you dropping by to say,
"Hi!" too. 


Eris,
    old Coot-in training
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:19:23 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: ROM, The Long Night and Mileu 0

Jim Cooper wrote:


>Scott Spieker wrote:
>>
>>         I have been reading an old series of books called "Foundation"
>
>I agree, it is as excellent series. I especially liked Foundations Edge.


Me too!  Did you know there are connections between the Foundations series
and the robot novels?  The connection is from before the formulation of the
mathematics used to predict social change (the basis of the Foundation).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:22:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Vassilakos <jimv@e2.empirenet.com>
Subject: GAL: Call for Worlds & Sectors

Call for Worlds & Sectors:

I'm currently shooting to have the next version of Galactic
out by the beginning of next month. Hence, if you have any
sectors or world write-ups that you'd like to contribute,
please email me a copy by no later than January 31st.

Incidentally, Jo Grant has proposed publishing a heavy
version of the program on cdrom. I'm not yet 100% certain
that this will go through, but we're moving in that
direction, so please get me your contributions before the
cut-off so that if the cdrom does become a reality, your
work can be included. For more info, feel free to send me
email...

jimv@empirenet.com

PS: Galactic v2.3 is available from http://www.cs.ucr.edu/~jimv
(during those rare moments that the computers are UCR are
actually working).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:27:20 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Re: A cry for help

Quoth Andrew Moffatt-Vallance:
> I remember coming across a webpage with some info on one of these races,
> (Suerrat and Genoee)
> but I can't for the life of me remember who's it was. Can anyone help.

Carlos Alos-Ferrer's Geonee information is available on Scott Galliand's
excellent web site... which seems to have moved.  Hm.  Either that or AOL
is doing horrid things again.

Some information on the Suerrat appeared in JTAS 1, as written by another
TML member.  I have my own version (posted here long ago, and since hiding
in a dusty corner of my account waiting to be HTML-ized after I finish
designing the seventh-grade curriculum I'm teaching....)  Let me know if
you'd like what I have so far.

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:35:48 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Missile Design Question

Sean Bayan Schoonmaker wrote:


>I'm working on designing standard missiles for any given launcher (i.e.
>7m^3 and 7t) in FFS2, and I'm winding up with Controlled missiles that have
>essentially Unlimited endurance until I push the G-rating on the T Plates
>high enough to max out the mass.
>
>I have the FFS2 erratta, so I don't KNOW of any mistakes I'm making. It's
>just that the Fusion+ plant that powers the T Plates uses so little fuel.
>
>Is this right ? ...or am I missing something really obvious.


If you had included the design, perhaps we could have commented on it.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:37:01 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Foundation

Doncha _love_ it when somebody discovers one of the classics for the first
time?

> I have been reading an old series of books called "Foundation" written by
> Isaac Asimov around 1952.  

Lessee...those titles were "Crustacean," "Crustacean and Umpire," and "Second
Crustacean"

No, that was something else... never mind.

Loren Wiseman
      GDW Emeritus

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:50:51 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Biochemistries, Part III

Kanji Schwas wrote:


>Loren Wiseman wrote:
>
>[big snip]
>>Part of the fun is coming up with reasons why each race is slightly
unique --
>>I think we all agree on that?
>
>This is sort of an aside, but it seems to me that a part of this sort of
>problem lies in the customary use (shared by lots of other sci-fi) of the
>term "race" to describe separate species.  To me, it definitely adds to the
>atmosphere of "humans in furry/scaly suits playing at _Daimyos & Damsels_"
>(etc.)  Terming these populations as "alien races" suggests that their
>difference from us (however "us" might be construed) is of the same degree
>as the differences among the pseudobiological social categories within our
>species.  Like I Loren says, Aslan have as much in common with humans as
>eggplants do; why not call eggplants and lichen "Terran races"?  Because
>they're not "intelligent" (unlike, for example, elected officials), or
>because they're harder to dress up actors/NPCs in suits to look like?


Perhaps we should use  a more scientific designation such as species.  Then
the alien species would  more clearly delineate the differences.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 23:06:54 -0600
From: "John D. Muncy" <jmuncy@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2214

> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:48:16 +0000
> From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
> Subject: Starship Troopers novel (was Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2210)

> I have in my hands a copy of the original work by RAH with a new cover
> showing a scene from the film published by ACE in the US, isbn
> 0-441-78359-9, dated May 97 inside the cover.
> 
> When I received it I was a little concerned that it was a movie
> novelisation, not the original, but it is the original.
> 
> Dom
> 
> - ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
> "Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
>    "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

Good info! I'll have to acquire a copy of that book for my library.
Thanks!

Best Regards
John
"God loves the infantry"
			anonymous

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 23:06:54 -0600
From: "John D. Muncy" <jmuncy@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2214

> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:48:16 +0000
> From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
> Subject: Starship Troopers novel (was Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2210)

> I have in my hands a copy of the original work by RAH with a new cover
> showing a scene from the film published by ACE in the US, isbn
> 0-441-78359-9, dated May 97 inside the cover.
> 
> When I received it I was a little concerned that it was a movie
> novelisation, not the original, but it is the original.
> 
> Dom
> 
> - ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
> "Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
>    "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

Good info! I'll have to acquire a copy of that book for my library.
Thanks!

Best Regards
John
"God loves the infantry"
			anonymous

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2229
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, January 14 1998    Volume 1997 : Number 2230



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Aslan
Semo on BBS's
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2224
Re: TL9 Big PAW
Re: Public Apology
Re: Public Apology
Re: Foundation
Re: Aslan
Re: Foundation
Re: Public Apology
Re: TL9 Big PAW
Re: Starports
Re: Foundation
Re: Public Apology
Re: Biochemistries, Part III
Re: TL9 Big PAW
Re: Public Apology
Re: GAL: Call for Worlds & Sectors
Re: Semo on BBS's
Re: ROM, The Long Night and Mileu 0
Re: Communism
Re: ROM, The Long Night and Mileu 0
Re: ROM, The Long Night and Mileu 0
Re: Public Apology
Dumarest Saga partial list
Re: Dumarest Saga partial list
Trade Stations

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 23:21:48 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Aslan

> IIRC, in one of the sources, the Aslan were supposed to be descendants of
> Terran cats.  They were captured by the ancients and  transported elsewhere.
> After genetic manipulation, the neo-cats were released to develop on their
> own.

I am unaware of any GDW source that says this (if so, I declare it invalid,
and I'm sure Marc and Frank will agree with me). This is pretty much how the
Vargr developed, however. Perhaps you are confusing the two?

Loren Wiseman
       GDW Emeritus

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:26:39 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Semo on BBS's

SemoFetus said,


>>I know how you feel, Semo.  I used to run a COMMODORE BBS, and we were
>>all linked thru our CBASE software to each other all over the USA.  Of
>>course, unlike fidonet, all us sysops had to pay our own long distance
>>fees, which got really expensive with all the packet downloading we did.
>>
>>I haven't ran my BBS in 3 years.  Sigh.  The good ole days, eh?  :)
>
>Yep.  The good ol' days.  I guess its a trade off.  I can communicate with
>Traveller people all over the world in a timely fashion, but talking to local
>folk is quite a bit harder...
>
>The internet tears down borders, but that's not always a good thing.
>
>Semo

Does anyone out there know where I can get a copy of Boyan (or something
like it) usable with windows?  Or even one that requires DOS?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 23:24:40 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2224

Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au> wrote:
>[T]he idea being to avoid having this big expensive asset sitting on the 
>tarmac/in orbit as much as possible.  I figure with such a system you 
>would be able to have a 24 hour turnaround, thus making the average trip 
>time 10 days rather than 15.

This sounds like a wonderful idea.  As a matter of fact, it's a good enough
idea that organizations like Tukera should be doing it as a matter of course
in the height of the Third Imperium.

We can make one of two assumptions about this, then.  The first is hat Tukera 
(and most other "large" lines) were indeed operating like this all along.
The second is that there is something about the nature of interstellar travel
that prevents such a scheme from working.

The first assumption doesn't seem to be confirmed or conclusively denied by
the Canon, and little material is available on the second.  However, what
material is available tends to support the conclusion that a starship needs
a significant amount of time for drive recalibration and routine maintenance
between jumps.  

While the engineers would probably _like_ an entire week, in practice they
could probably do the absolute minimum required work in a few hours.
Given 24-48 hours, could probably have the drives in good enough shape that
the crew would feel safe jumping again in a non-emergency situation.



wildstar@qrc.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's Science Fiction, if, presuming technical competence on the part of
 the writer, he genuinely believes it could happen." --- John W. Campbell

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:37:37 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: TL9 Big PAW

Douglas E. Berry wrote:


>At 03:31 PM 1/13/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>>>
>>> At 01:02 AM 1/13/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>> >What the heck does PAW stand for?
>>>
>>> Particle Accelerator Weapon.
>>>
>>> Doug.
>>
>>
>>We have those today, don't we?  Utilizing ferrous mass in a cyclotron
>>until near C velocities then discharging the energetic mass?
>
>I think you are thinking of mass drivers.  Different concept.  A PAW fires
>a stream of energetic particles (as in atomic patrticles) towards the
>target.  A MD accelerates a chunk of ferrous metal using a magnetic field.


We do have particle accelerators.  They are not weapons.  They are tools for
scientific investigation.  The difference is only one of application.  If
you were to point one of these tools were pointing at an enemy, it would be
devastating.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 98 21:25:52 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Public Apology

On 01/13/98 at 12:09 PM,  ringrose@ascent.com said:

>I recall reading that telephone companies want ISPs declared common
>carriers, like long distance companies, because you can purchase software
>which allows you to, effectively, make a long distance call over the
>Internet.  Free, except for local charges.

Actually, they want ISP's declared common carriers so they can kill them
off and take their business.   They are acting like any Mega-corp with
their fingers, toes and other appendeges stuck deeply into various
government orifaces. IMO.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 98 21:22:42 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Public Apology

On 01/13/98 at 09:40 AM,  kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz) said:

>Bruce Johnson wrote:

>>I feel the same way about outher legalized monopolies, like cable systems.
>>It's odd, the great cable deregulation of two years ago, which everyone
>>claimed would result in lower costs and better service, have gotten us
>>three price increases and fewer channels Grrrr....

>You, sir... or should I say, comrade? -- are sounding suspiciously like
>some sort of pinko socialist ideologue.  Please try to keep in mind that
>Communism Has Been Proven Not to Work :|

Golly Gee, Kenji!  If what Bruce wrote qualifies him as a "pinko socialist
ideologue", then I must be a fellow traveller, at least, ;-> because I
pretty much agreed with him.

Deregulation is a good thing. Competition is a good thing.  But
deregulation without competition is NOT a good thing. I'd prefer to take
the government out of communications completely, but as long as we have
effective monopolies in local service we won't really have competition, and
we need government regulation to protect the public.  

Eris,
    libertarian, really! 
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:57:43 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Foundation

Loren Wiseman (or maybe that should be wiseguy) said:


>Doncha _love_ it when somebody discovers one of the classics for the first
>time?
>
>> I have been reading an old series of books called "Foundation" written by
>> Isaac Asimov around 1952.
>
>Lessee...those titles were "Crustacean," "Crustacean and Umpire," and
"Second
>Crustacean"
>
>No, that was something else... never mind.
>
>Loren Wiseman
>      GDW Emeritus
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 23:01:50 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Aslan

>> IIRC, in one of the sources, the Aslan were supposed to be descendants of
>> Terran cats.  They were captured by the ancients and  transported elsewhere.
>> After genetic manipulation, the neo-cats were released to develop on their
>> own.
>
>I am unaware of any GDW source that says this (if so, I declare it invalid,
>and I'm sure Marc and Frank will agree with me). This is pretty much how the
>Vargr developed, however. Perhaps you are confusing the two?


That is a distinct possibility.  I have slept once or twice in the last 15
or 20 years. :-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 98 23:29:16 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Foundation

On 01/13/98 at 10:37 PM,  GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com> said:

>Doncha _love_ it when somebody discovers one of the classics for the first
>time?

>> I have been reading an old series of books called "Foundation" written by
>> Isaac Asimov around 1952.  

>Lessee...those titles were "Crustacean," "Crustacean and Umpire," and
>"Second Crustacean"

Wasn't that the one about Harlen Ellison, a psycho historian, that wore
Mules?

Or something like that...;-b


Eris,
    the hitman wore clogs!
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 00:31:06 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

At 09:49 PM 1/13/98 EST, Kenji wrote:
<Snip>...
>...the TERRIBLE TRUTH that "Traveller" is nothing but a recruitment
>tool for Godless atheistical FIENDS to seduce the troubled youth of America
>into playing AD&D and thus worshipping demons. ..

Actually, we've always viewed Traveller, in all its incarnations, as the
good, logical, non-demonistic, healthy-role-playing alternative to those
sorts of games...  BTW - would a godless fiend truly try to subvert our
youth into worshiping demons?  Seems counterproductive from a godlessicity
(sp???) point of view...     ;*)

Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 98 23:39:25 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: TL9 Big PAW

On 01/13/98 at 10:37 PM,  "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> said:

>We do have particle accelerators.  They are not weapons.  They are tools
>for scientific investigation.  The difference is only one of application. 
>If you were to point one of these tools were pointing at an enemy, it
>would be devastating.

Just how effective could they be with current technology?  They require
long acceleration tunnels and are extremely energy inefficient.  I think
trying to fire them though the atmosphere would severely limit their range.
And finally, just what sort of energy density can we get?  

Sure we've got 'em, but I think we're a ways from PA's being effective
weapons.

Eris,
    I could be wrong
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 23:27:07 -0600
From: "Mark Laney" <cowhead@scott.net>
Subject: Re: Starports

- ----------
>I'm not sure about actual turnaround time minimums, but having an office
and warehouse space each planet works. 

 In the traveler game that I've been playing in for years we've had agents
on planets along our route. All the time that we are jumping around they
stay on planet and look for good deals. When one comes along that can't be
passed up they buy for us and warehouse it til we come round. They know our
approximate schedules so can plan to meet our ships. 

Sometimes we lose our shirts but most of the time we turn a lot better
profit than A ship can showing up and seeing what's for sale this week.
 
I actually thought that something like this would be standard practice, or
I would have mentioned it before.  

Ciao.
Mark

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 00:46:45 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Foundation

At 10:55 PM 1/13/98 EST, Loren wrote:
>Doncha _love_ it when somebody discovers one of the classics for the first
>time?
>
>> I have been reading an old series of books called "Foundation" written by
>> Isaac Asimov around 1952.  
>
>Lessee...those titles were "Crustacean," "Crustacean and Umpire," and "Second
>Crustacean"
>
>No, that was something else... never mind.
>

Ah, c'mon!  We're all old farts on this bus! Except for the youngsters who
will keep the Imperium alive...



Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 00:47:28 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

>>Hmmm...  Guess somebody forgot to tell Cuba.
>>
>
>Hmmm... Is this a suggestion that it's working there?    ;*)

Could be.  Could also be a flip response.  Who knows?  :)

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:45:59 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Biochemistries, Part III

> To name them after a famous Literary Lion only begs for the connection to be
> made in the readers mind.  If its artificial to attribute Terran Feline behavior
> to Aslan, is it any less artificial to compare them to Terran Cultures?  I
> suggest not.  (and even though its works, I've grown tired of the Samurai Cat in
> a plethora of sci-fi over the years from Larry Niven to Wing Commander.)
> 
> Bloo

Actually, I don't see the Kilrathi as samurai at all.  More like Ghengis
Khan and his lot.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:48:19 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: TL9 Big PAW

> I think you are thinking of mass drivers.  Different concept.  A PAW fires
> a stream of energetic particles (as in atomic patrticles) towards the
> target.  A MD accelerates a chunk of ferrous metal using a magnetic field.
> --


But if you accelerate them to near C velocity, doesn't the matter break
down into energy at that point?  Becoming a mass of beamed particles?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 98 00:08:22 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Public Apology

On 01/14/98 at 12:47 AM,  SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com> said:

>>>Hmmm...  Guess somebody forgot to tell Cuba.

>>Hmmm... Is this a suggestion that it's working there?    ;*)

If the definition of working is to drive the best and brightest out of Cuba
and across the Florida Straits, it's working.

>Could be.  Could also be a flip response.  Who knows?  :)

The Shadow? The Shadow knows!

Eris
     So, Leonard, do you know?
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:04:54 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: GAL: Call for Worlds & Sectors

I added the world, "Tanith" to the Sword Worlds Subsector.

Tanith 
- ------
Owned and ruled by Lucas Trask


Name          Statistics                    Remarks
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tanith        0809  A5755A0  D B  Agricultural      New Capital
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:10:08 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Semo on BBS's

Semo - 

I have an old CDROM full of stuff and in the \msdos\modem directories
are two files, boyan5a.zip and boyan5b.zip.

Want'em?  :)  If so email me personally so I can send them to you and
not the whole list.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:06:20 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: ROM, The Long Night and Mileu 0

In article <56b0064a.34bc028a@aol.com>, SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com> wrote:
>>	I have been reading an old series of books called "Foundation" written by
>>Isaac Asimov around 1952.  It high lights the effects of a galactic empire
>>that is brought down by rebellion, slowing economics, and a general
>>distrust of the impersonal Imperial government.  The series highlights the
>>foreshadowed knowledge of such an occurrence which under 'normal'
>>circumstances would have left the galaxy in ruins for well over 30,000
>>years.  But one man's psycohistoric examination and projections would lead
>>a small group of scientists to 'preserve' knowledge through the Long night
>>following the collapse of the interstellar Imperium.  (Sound a little
>>traveller like yet?)
>
>Although probably incorrect, I'd thought that Foundation was a huge influence
>on Traveller.  So much of the Foundation series made it into Traveller that I
>believed that the Foundation series is to Traveller as the Lord of the Rings
>was to D&D.

My take was that Traveller was largely based on a combination of
Foundation, Dumarest, and Flandry, with a few bits of Dune, Skylark,
and Asimov's Robot series thrown in for good measure.

Frankie

    

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:41:17 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Communism

Richard A. Flores wrote:
> 
> There is one historical example of true communism.  It worked because all
> the participants were voluntary and free to leave at any time.  This is also
> why some of the communes formed in the US during the 60's and 70's were as
> successful as they were (and some still are).
> 
> That historical example is the first century Christians.  They held
> everything in common and if any of them needed they got.

Thank you for the examples. My main point was what we consider to be
communism today and what we try to rid ourselves of does not hold to the
principal of equality for all. The two are not synonomous. nuff said.

Jim Cooper

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:43:37 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: ROM, The Long Night and Mileu 0

Richard A. Flores wrote:
> 
> Jim Cooper wrote:
> 
> >Scott Spieker wrote:
> >>
> >>         I have been reading an old series of books called "Foundation"
> >
> >I agree, it is as excellent series. I especially liked Foundations Edge.
> 
> Me too!  Did you know there are connections between the Foundations series
> and the robot novels?  The connection is from before the formulation of the
> mathematics used to predict social change (the basis of the Foundation).

No, I was not aware of, or at least didn't relate the connection. I'll
have to re-read them with that view in mind. Thanks.

Jim Cooper

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:57:05 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: ROM, The Long Night and Mileu 0

> My take was that Traveller was largely based on a combination of
> Foundation, Dumarest, and Flandry, with a few bits of Dune, Skylark,
> and Asimov's Robot series thrown in for good measure.
> 
> Frankie
> 


Traveller is LARGELY based on the Dumarest saga, everything in it you
can also find in Traveller, including SPECIFIC things like Low passage,
high Passage, Medical drugs like Slow and Fast, the thoroughly
SNAPSHOTish hand-to-hand combat, etc.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 23:18:15 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Public Apology

Bill Rutherford, alien fifth-columnist, wrote:

>At 09:49 PM 1/13/98 EST, Kenji wrote:
><Snip>...
>>...the TERRIBLE TRUTH that "Traveller" is nothing but a recruitment
>>tool for Godless atheistical FIENDS to seduce the troubled youth of America
>>into playing AD&D and thus worshipping demons. ..
>
>Actually, we've always viewed Traveller, in all its incarnations, as the

Look!  Look!  He's subliminally programming you all to believe in
reincarnation and all those other heathen Hindoo blasphemies!  And, as we
all know, India labors not only under the burden of idolatry, but of
socialism!

>good, logical, non-demonistic, healthy-role-playing alternative to those
>sorts of games...  BTW - would a godless fiend truly try to subvert our
>youth into worshiping demons?  Seems counterproductive from a godlessicity
>(sp???) point of view...     ;*)

See how he tries to defend them, now?  "Travel" on back to Moscow, why
don'tcha, Mr. Rutherford!  We don't need totalitarians like you here in the
Imperium!  And take your PINKO ANARCHY with you!

Kenji Schwarz
who is NOT writing a Galanglic-Sayat phrasebook, who is NOT thinking about
it even...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 02:50:59 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Dumarest Saga partial list

J-Man wrote:

> Traveller is LARGELY based on the Dumarest saga, everything in it you
> can also find in Traveller, including SPECIFIC things like Low passage,
> high Passage, Medical drugs like Slow and Fast, the thoroughly
> SNAPSHOTish hand-to-hand combat, etc.

Ok.  I've never heard of Dumarest, which surprises me given the years of
book retail experience I have.  Oh well.  Amazon shows the following
titles, which may or may not all be Dumarest related.  Virtually all of
them are "Hard to Find."  Any hints on which one is best?  Or should I
start with #1, "Winds of Gath."  I'm always game for at least one novel of
a sci-fi series.

Bloo

                           Angado : Dumearest of Terra No. 29
                                   E. C. Tubb / Published 1984
                                   (Hard to Find)

                              Breakaway
                                   E. C. Tubb
                                   (Hard to Find)

                              Collision Course (Space - 1999)
                                   E.C. Tubb / Published 1975
                                   (Hard to Find)

                              The Coming Event
                                   E. C. Tubb / Published 1982
                                   (Hard to Find)

                              Derai : Dumarest of Terra No. 2
                                   E.C. Tubb / Published 1982
                                   (Hard to Find)

                              Earth Is Heaven
                                   E. C. Tubb / Published 1982
                                   (Hard to Find)

                              Iduna's Universe
                                   E.C Tubb / Published 1979
                                   (Hard to Find)

                              The Jester at Scar
                                   E. C. Tubb / Published 1982
                                   (Hard to Find)

                              Kalin : Dumarest of Terra No. 4
                                   E. C. Tubb / Published 1982
                                   (Hard to Find)

                              Lallia : Dumerest of Terra, No. 6
                                   E.C. Tubb / Published 1982
                                   (Hard to Find)

                              Mayenne and Jondelle
                                   E.C. Tubb / Published 1981
                                   (Hard to Find)

                              Melome
                                   E. C. Tubb / Published 1983
                                   (Hard to Find)

                              Pawn of the Omphalos
                                   E.C Tubb / Published 1980
                                   (Hard to Find)

                              Quillian Sector: Dumarest of Terra Number 19
                                   E.C Tubb / Published 1978
                                   (Hard to Find)

                              Stardeath
                                   E. C. Tubb / Published 1983
                                   (Hard to Find)

                              Symbol of Terra (Dumarest of Terra, No 30)
                                   E.C. Tubb / Published 1984
                                   (Hard to Find)

                              Technos : Dumarest of Terra No. 7
                                   E. Tubb / Published 1982
                                   (Hard to Find)

                              The Temple of Truth (Dumarest of Terra, No 31)
                                   E.C. Tubb / Published 1985
                                   (Hard to Find)

                              The Terra Data
                                   E.C. Tubb / Published 1980
                                   (Hard to Find)

                              The Terridae: Dumarest of Terra
                                   E.C. Tubb / Published 1981
                                   (Hard to Find)

                              Toyman : Dumarest of Terra No. 3
                                   E.C. Tubb / Published 1982
                                   (Hard to Find)

                              Veruchia
                                   E. C. Tubb / Published 1982
                                   (Hard to Find)

                              Web of Sand : Dumarest of Terra, No. 20
                                   E.C. Tubb / Published 1979
                                   (Hard to Find)

                              The Winds of Gath : Dumerest of Terra Number 1
                                   E. C. Tubb / Published 1982
                                   (Hard to Find)

                              World of Promise
                                   E.C. Tubb / Published 1980

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 00:03:37 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Dumarest Saga partial list

Ack!  I wish I'd kept those books, I had the entire series once!

Not sure which is 'best'...Just start with Winds of Gath.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:12:29
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Trade Stations

Trusting your Factor :

Although you can bet that somewhere, sometime, someone is getting ripped
off by the on-planet parts of their orginisation, I dont think it's that
common becasue (a) factors are more disposable than starship crew, (b)
factors earn damn good money, and want to keep the captains they rely on in
business and (c) if the factor vapes, then there is always the fallback of
wasting a week orginising your own cargo.

Routine Maintainence :

This makes more sense (you need the week of ship downtime to keep the jump
drive ticking over), however ...

Engineer characters get really bored, unless you just set it up and the
computer burbles away to itself for a couple of days running diagnostics.

The same would presumably apply to simultaneous jumps in other
circumstances eg you always need to spend a day/3 days/whatever between
jumps doing routine maintainence to be safe.

Adventuring Implications :

If the players are doing it, it sets up a different kind of game ... the
Lando Calrissian/Han Solo comparison is a good one. There are still lots of
adventuring possibilities, especially for shipless parties (eg the boss got
a really good price on four tons of ivory, but you need to go pick it up
from the middle of a brushfire war).

If it part of the "background" then it makes scrabbling a credit as a
short-haul free trader even harder. As I said before, I think the key is
going into the long-haul lunury goods buisiness, as then the week or more
at each end sorting out a cargo is less important.

Costs :

I actually think costs would go down at low TLs, becasue you are presumably
paying in Imperial credits, and warehouse space, local labour etc are
priced in cheaper local credits.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2230
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, January 14 1998    Volume 1997 : Number 2231



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Black Globes / MT rules
re: Annililik Run
Re: Core Sector Geography
Re: Biochemistries
Re: Public Apology OFF TOPIC
re: Black globes in jump
Updated Star Files for ChView
Re: Public Apology (OT)
Re: ROM, The Long Night and Mileu 0
Prisoner - was Sayat conspiracy
Routine Maintainence
Re: TL9 Big PAW
Re: Move over, Sayat machine translators!
Re: T4 release update? and Hello, the list
Re: Prisoner - was Sayat conspiracy
Re: Dumarest Saga partial list
Re: Biochemistries
Re: A cry for help Suerrat Geonee
Re: TL9 Big PAW
Re: Biochemistries, Part III
Galanglic-Sayat Phrasebooks

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:23:17 +0800
From: crew@earwax.pd.uwa.edu.au (David Crew)
Subject: Re: Black Globes / MT rules

electric-stitch@w-link.net wrote:

>I have a question about starship combat in MT concerning the To Hit and To
>Pen tables in the Ref's Manual.

<snip>

>
>I'll use a far trader for example:
>
>Computer model = 1
>DefDM +3
>Assume triple turret missile launcher TL-13 Factor 3
>Sand Caster TL-10 Factor 4
>
>To Hit another ship (same config) It would be difficult, 1 (computer size)
>+5 (to hit table); -3 (defDM)
>Result: roll 11+ with a DM of +3 (net roll of 8+) 42% chance to hit.
>
>To Pen Sand difficult, 1 (computer size + 5 (to pen table); -1 (computer
>size)
>Result 11+ with a DM of +5 (net roll of 6+) 72% chance to penetrate.
>
>It seems awfully easy to penetrate. I would have thought it would be easier
>to hit and harder to penetrate.


Well provided you can look up tables (I don't have my MT books handy to
check) it seems correct to me - you forgot the range DM to hit though
(which might be zero).  Whether it is 'right' is a matter of taste.  If you
think it is too easy you could always rule no gunnery skill is being used
so all tasks are one level higher for being unskilled - the to hit task
then moves to rolling 12+ (making it nigh impossible) and penetration 10+
(not much better).

It could be argued that a far trader is not a combat machine and is thus a
sitting target to the missiles, hence the reasonable chance to hit and the
puny sandcaster (even at UCP 4) dosen't do anything (sand not being so
great vs missiles anyway).

On the other hand:
I've never really liked the MT to hit task because the computer has such a
big weighting (it is also included in the defensive DM as well) - hence why
the fighter in the IE has a model 6.  The far trader in the above example
couldn't hit a barn if said barn contained had a model 6 computer
(defensive DM +8).  A better task to hit IMO is

Difficult, Off: Weapon UCP, Gunnery. Def: Agility, Pilot or Ship Tactics

which gives the same result in the example above but moves the barn with
big computer to an 8+ to hit rather than 13+.  The computer model number I
use as part of the tactics pool with ship tactics and fleet tactics.

To penetrate try something like:

Difficult, Off: Weapon UCP, Gunnery. Def: Screen UCP, Gunnery

Which makes it 12+ in the far trader example above.  Perhaps a routine task
would be better (8+)?  You might have to add in special modifiers for
missiles against sand to make them penetrate better than lasers.  To
replicate the tables you need something like:

Missiles versus Sand: Off DM +1;
Nuclear Missiles versus Dampers: Def DM +4;
Meson vs Meson Screen: Def DM +8;
Meson vs Configuration is a mess.... :)

Another advantage of the two tasks above is you remove having to look up
lots of tables for each shot.

>
>Also, The Ref's Manual says that for each Factor the weapon is over the UCP
>size of the craft causes a critical hit. (-1 crit for every 3 levels of
>armor over 40)
>
>In the above example, the missiles would automatically cause a critical hit.
>
>Does this seem wrong?

You sort of need some critical hit system in MT because the way the damage
table is written, surface damage CANNOT destroy a ship - only sand blast
all the weapons, fuel and maneuver drives off (leaving a nice hulk to
board!). A critical hit allows you the chance to destroy the ship.  Plus
missiles are big - far traders small hence combat is dangerous for them
(fitting with the rest of the MT combat system - dangerous for unarmoured
combatants - which a far trader definitely is).

MT combat as written between two far traders is analogous to Dulinor and
Lucan standing at 5 paces with loaded magnum revolvers.  Whoever hits first
wins.

>
>I haven't seen TNE or T4. Is the starship combat much better? Our group here
>play a mix of CT and MT.
>

Wouldn't know - I only play MT.  You might want to check out RPSCS or James
Garris' SSCS (both for T4) for ideas if you want to tweak the MT space
combat system - both fulfill the 'Role-playing' aspect of space combat
between small ships admirably - neither works for larger actions.

I'm working on a new (small spacecraft) space combat system for MT
currently.  It's a synthesis of the best bits of RPSCS and SSCS with MT
tasks, written for MT ships.  I'll post a precis when I finish if anyone is
interested.

____________________________________________________________________________
David Crew                                       <crew@earwax.pd.uwa.edu.au>

Special Research Centre for Advanced Mineral and Materials Processing
c/- Magnetics Laboratory, Department of Physics,
University of Western Australia
Crawley 6907, Australia
Phone +61 8 9380 2751                                   Fax + 61 8 9380 1014
____________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:04:09 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Annililik Run

Kagehira <Kagehira@aol.com> wrote:

>	Yes James Ward did Gamma World and Metamorphosis Alpha (As I recall). I think
>too many people requested the GW/Trav crossover because it looks like you got
>it from what's been said so far.

I bit the bullet and read the rest...

The cursed ship (second adventure) involves a subsidized liner (The
Annililik), a mad scientist and psycho robots. It could be rescued and
turned into a Trav scenario, but the basis of the plot (almost AI
computers) would be better at TL14/TL15.

The Cursed Cargo (part 3) is possibly rescueable, but again involves loads
of robots, mutant killer fungi (Gamma World? - really irritated me after
the work we put in on 101 Lifeforms), and encouragement to play liberally
with the canon background of the Alien Archive...

All three adventures show no understanding of what a jump drive is and how
jumps behave, and have no real link except they are somewhere along a trade
route from Core to Vland.

Dom's Top Tip - spend your money on Starships or First Survey instead if
you want a turkey. They bear more resemblance to Traveller and make a
useful substitute for a mousemat.

Clark wrote:

>Subject: Annililik Run (Adventure 3)
>
>Has anyone else seen this?  I bought it a couple of weeks ago.

My sympathies. I wish I *hadn't* seen it.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:13:16 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Core Sector Geography

 "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu> wrote:

>I got much the same as you, but some differences.
>First, I take 25 systems to mean roughly 25.
>Second, I didn't count barren systems against the 25 (although I count them as
>part of the empire, as refuelling depots, and such)

Forgot about barren worlds... Anyone got the Tab delimited First Survey
data still? (Please write and offer first if you do, else I've visions of
my mailbox collapsing under the weight of multitudes of files).


<snip of interesting post>

>Happen to know the page references to the Santry/Cordova deal?  I'm probably
>staring right at it, but I can't find it.

p23 second column

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:08:51 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Biochemistries

"Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> wrote:

>IIRC, in one of the sources, the Aslan were supposed to be descendants of
>Terran cats.  They were captured by the ancients and  transported elsewhere.
>After genetic manipulation, the neo-cats were released to develop on their
>own.

You're thinking about the Vargr. And that's "Dogs".

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:42:16 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Public Apology OFF TOPIC

"Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> wrote

> but a proposal to allow
>TSP's to charge a per minute rate on internet connections.

???

They already do.







Oh - sorry I'm being Eurocentric here - for your information we get charged
per minute here in the UK and across the rest of Europe. (And we get silly
amounts of tax on fuel too but that's another story...)

Not everyone in the Internet gets it so cheaply - similarly computer hard
(and soft) ware translates directly at pound for dollars (so we get to pay
50% more). Why? Because that's what the market will bear.

On the discussion about TSP charges - we used to get a magazine called
'Telephony' from the US in work. I do recall several pieces on such a
proposal - the logic behind the argument was that the levels  of
infrastructure installed by the RBOCs were based on around calculations
that assumed an average call length of around 5 min, so even a few users on
for 20+ minutes can start to skew the calculations.  As security of supply
is a big issue, the RBOCs are looking for a way to pay for necessary switch
upgrades. Or at least, that's how they view the point. I suggest that you
try looking out some backcopies of the magazine.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:45:51 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Black globes in jump

"Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> wrote:

>I don't know about CT, but in T4, the jump drives require .018 megawatts of
>energy per cubic meter of ship in order to keep the bubble of normal space
>in tact.  Would it be possible to get that energy to the "jump bubble" with
>the black globes on?

Erm... you could set them to flicker..... handwave ....handwave.

It was *so* much easier when we didn't have all the pseudo-scientific
techno-babble. (Not that I'm knocking FFS2 - it's nice to have a solid
baseline for the technology. I just pine for the old High Guard / CT
descriptions).

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:40:27 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Updated Star Files for ChView

Of possible interest to the list...


Those interested can find files updated to Hipparcos distances at:
http://members.nova.org/~sol/chview/chvc.htm
        or
http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~jaymin/chview/chvc.htm

The files are in *.chv binary format which is described in ".../chvb.htm".
However, *.chv files can be exported to ascii format, which is described in
".../chva.htm".  (If I didn't get that right, check under "CONTENTS" in the
link areas at top or bottom.)

The file, "10ly-ht.chv", contains stars within 10.9 light-years (ly), which
includes Tycho Catalogue objects (Tyc #) with parallaxes (Plx) equal or
greater than 300 milli-arcseconds (mas).  While the original goal of the
Hipparcos team was to obtain Plx with (standard?) errors +/- 20-30 mas, all
but 2 of the 792 objects included have a standard error ("e") greater than
30 mas.  I excluded almost an equal number that have negative Plx (-300 and
smaller mas).  Johnson Vmag ("Mag") and converted absolute mag (Mv) are
included.  BTW, PPM # are from the enormous Position and Proper Motion
catalogue(s).

Francois Ochsenbein of VIZIER says that the nearby Tycho objects are too
bright and not red enough to be brown dwarfs.  I believe that even if they
are mostly dim M dwarfs, however, there may be too many of them.  If my
memory is correct, increasing the distance to 15 ly of Sol also increase the
number of Tycho objects to over 9-10,000.  Oddly enough, there seems to be a
"hole" (lack of objects) within 5 ly of Sol.  Hence, I wonder about an
error(s) in the algorithms used to calculate the Plx and e of the dimmer
objects observed, since dim objects require much more observation time for
accurate measurements.

The largest file, "100ly-h.zip", contains over 5,100 stars and objects
within 100 ly with updated Hipparcos distances.  Updated stars have a Hip #
in the "Notes" section and two decimal places in their distance from
Sol/Earth (e.g., 99.99) for convenience, unless rounded.  While most numbers
should be rounded up one digit, the additional digit is provided for reference.

I've queried VIZIER (which, in turn, queries SIMBAD) to identify Hipparcos
stars (Hip #) for all dwarf GABO and subgiant-supergiant/etc. stars from
previous catalogues (1991 Yale Bright Star, 1984 Ochsenbein BS, 1991 Gliese,
and earlier Woolley) that did not have a HD (Henry Draper) or DM
(Bonner/BD/B, Cordova/CoD/CD/C, or Cape/CPD/CP/P Durchmusterung) number.
Querying the others (dwarf K and M, and white dwarfs) will take another 1-3
months for apparently very little gain (some stars are much further away).
While it's possible to avoid querying star by star through the internet to
VIZIER by using the Hipparcos Input Catalogue to get HIC numbers that link
to the Hipparcos and Tycho catalogues, that would also take a lot of time
and cross-tabs with a file of trully enormous size and you may still need to
use SIMBAD.  Querying SIMBAD/VIZIER through available HR/BS (Harvard
Record/Bright Star), G(iclas), Gl(iese), GJ (Gliese and Jahreiss),
LHS/L/LFT/LTT, Ross, Wolf, and others (such as Bayer/Flamsteed and proper
name) seems easier for small files.  In addition, I heard that Hipparcos Plx
is too imprecise for virtually all stars greater 500 ly away, many much closer.

All stars in the "50ly-h.zip" file have been queried for Hipparcos matches.
In addition, all available angular separations in arcseconds (simple "sep"
and semi-axis "a") between stars in multiple star systems have been
converted to astronomical units (AU).  Orbital periods ("P") are presumably
from long-term observation.  (P and a can be used to calculate total system
mass).

Stars in the "25ly-h.zip" have also been queried for Tycho matches.
However, few matches were found, and those had large errors.
In general, I also tried to match all non-Hipparcos G and brighter stars
with 100 ly with Tycho, but the few matches had bad Plx (noted in "Notes").
I think that I wasn't able to match Alula Australis(?), Xi Ursae Majoris# (a
multiple star) with Hip or Tyc -- too bad, because one of these G-F stars
has a brown dwarf/planetary companion.

Anyway, I hope these results provokes some discussion.
Cheers,
Ben

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 00:33:25 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Public Apology (OT)

"David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net> wrote

>         And honestly, every time I see the original message again (about
> once a year or so), I have to check AGAIN to see if it's still a
> hoax.  But given the bureaucratic nature of the FCC, anything without a docket or case
> number is immediately eliminated as most likely being a hoax.
> Plus, I'm sure my ISP and yours would immediately provide you
> with as much information as necessary if it were really serious.
> Then I'd be concerned.

Be concerned.

Actually my ISP, Internet Alaska, did send me email telling me the
situation was serious.  My ISP is fairly large & reputable & its owner
has spent most of the past week on this subject.  I encourage U.S.
listmembers to see the details on their website at:

http://www.alaska.net/~ahernlj/ispfees/index.html

In brief, if you believe what he says (& I do) it is serious.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:22:29 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: ROM, The Long Night and Mileu 0

On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Scott Spieker wrote:
[snip]

> campaign.  Who knows, maybe the Foundation was a Jump Start Cache left by
> one of the governments who foresaw the end of the ROM and the beginning of
> the Long night.  Maybe even Cleon had "discovered" the Foundation's hiding
> spot and utilized their knowledge to help start the Third Imperium...

I wonder which role the AAB repositories could play in this scenario. They
could be the main part of the Foundation as their duty is the preservation
of all knowledge. And which Psi Institute makes for the Second Foundation?

> 	I highly recommend the series for those of you who keep an open mind in
> regards to the 'grey area' caused by holes in the Traveller background.  I
> also recommend the series for those of you who are interested in intrigue
> and 'Empire Building' type literature than the 'hack and slash' first
> person approach at stories.

Mee too. I always think of some high-level mind boggling background for my
adventures. But my players sometimes don't ...

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:22:19 +0000
From: Bruce E J Lewis <bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk>
Subject: Prisoner - was Sayat conspiracy

At 14:54 13/01/98 -0800, J-Man wrote:
>"The Prisoner", starring Patrick Macgoohan (sp), as #6.
>
>Who is #1?  :)
>
	And the answer was there in the opening titles all along!!!


	See ya...

Bruce E J Lewis - mailto:bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk
Telephone - 0956-506527

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:08:37
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Routine Maintainence

While trying to go to sleep, my brain turned over with a neat Traveller idea.

Ships need Age/10 days of routine maintainence between jumps.

This way, the brand new megacorp freighters can do their fast turnarounds,
aided by trade stations, while the creaky old freighters have to sit on the
tarmac for 5 days or so anyway, so the captain and/or purser might as well
avoid the costs of paying for on-planet infrastructure and go looking for
cargoes personally.

The engineer just needs to oversight the process, needing age of ship in
hours per day divided by engineering skill.

Of course, this will also increases the rate of depreciation on starships
by reduing their rate of earnings ... between being slower and more
expensive to maintain I believe you could buy a 50 year old freighter for
as little as 35% of sticker cost. Add obsolete (eg a TL11 freighter in the
early 3I) and I think you could get the total price down to the cost of a
deposit on a brand spanking new ship.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:32:13 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: TL9 Big PAW

>Date: Tue, 13 Jan 98 23:39:25 -0600
>From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
>Subject: Re: TL9 Big PAW
>
>On 01/13/98 at 10:37 PM,  "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> said:
>
>>We do have particle accelerators.  They are not weapons.  They are tools
>>for scientific investigation.  The difference is only one of application. 
>>If you were to point one of these tools were pointing at an enemy, it
>>would be devastating.
>
>Just how effective could they be with current technology?  They require
>long acceleration tunnels and are extremely energy inefficient.  I think
>trying to fire them though the atmosphere would severely limit their range.
>And finally, just what sort of energy density can we get?  
>
>Sure we've got 'em, but I think we're a ways from PA's being effective
>weapons.
>
>Eris,
>    I could be wrong
>- -- 
The large European collider at CERN (French/Swiss border) also has the
disadvantage
of being a ring several km in diameter and many metres underground.

If your enemy did stand in one of the detection chambers (ie in the path of
the beam)
it would be a lot simpler to drop one of the 100ton detectors on him.

:-)

Phil Kitching
- --
  Mailto:Philk@btinternet.com (don't blame BT - they only pay me:)
  Why shoot at a Vargr ship without warning?
  If the captain doesn't put his head out of the window, it must be a
  pirate trying to achieve surprise :)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 13:37:06 +0100
From: "V.A.G" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Move over, Sayat machine translators!

Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> 
> At 02:53 PM 1/13/98 -0800, you wrote:
> 
> >On a similar topic...  I helped proofread a little handbook for the
> >Japanese sex tour circuit back in the mid-80s.  Japanese-English-Thai.  It
> >was apparently written by someone living in the early Victorian period.
> >"Pardon me, madam: are you a harlot?"  "I want to view your bosom.  How
> >much?"  "Please have a pair of catamites brought to my chambers."  The job
> >of fashioning it into good modern English was entrusted, in all good but
> >misplaced faith, to a pair of well-disguised Anglophone pervs, who chortled
> >evilly over it in their office and emerged to solemnly announce that it
> >looked fine and fluent just as it was.  ISTR that we did insist that they
> >offer "lady of the night" as a more genteel alternative to "harlot",
> >however.
> 
> You realize that now every other phrase put out the translator will be "I
> want to view your bosom."
> 
Do you waaaaant thoo come to my place..bouncy bouncy?
I will not buy this record, it is scratched

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 13:34:03 +0100
From: "V.A.G" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: T4 release update? and Hello, the list

Stevie D (aka Bloo) wrote:
>
> When last I left the list, I was really enjoying playtesting with a beta
> of T4 character generation rewrites.  Have there been any changes?  Is
> there a newer version available.
> As I recall, there was a lot of interesting discussion about promotion
> rates and rank titles for Marines (adding "Force" to distinguish them
> from the Navy.), as well as Rogues masquerading as under cover agents,
> and conflicts of Imperial Law, bounty hunters, etc.  It seemed that 

AFAIK, 4.1 will be out sometime before Christmas ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:56:22 +0000 (GMT)
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Prisoner - was Sayat conspiracy

>>"The Prisoner", starring Patrick Macgoohan (sp), as #6.
>>Who is #1?  :)
>>
>        And the answer was there in the opening titles all along!!!
>       See ya...
>
>Bruce E J Lewis - mailto:bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk

I'm the new Number Two.

Dose that help ? ;-)

	Ewan Quibell
	Data Communications Technician        The Game's afoot:
	Computer Centre                       Follow your spirit, and apon
	University of Brighton                  this charge
                                              Cry 'God for Harry, England,
	E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              and Saint George !'

                                                    Henry V 3:1
	#include<stddisclamer.h>                    W. Shakespeare

	My spelling is entierly due to dyslexia, typoes and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:56:32 -0400
From: "Alan M. Nuss" <amnuss@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Dumarest Saga partial list

The final book of the Dumarest saga (says E.C. Tubb) is

The Return (Dumarest saga #32)
published by Gryphon Books in 1997
ISBN: 0-936071-83-4
trade paperback  $20

I had to special order it through my local SF bookstore.

Alan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:22:24 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Biochemistries

Here's an alternative to the introduction of molecules for an effect.

Two dissimilar metals in the prsence of an acid can cause a current flow. Make
a stick or other mouth object out of two metals and suck on it. There is this
electric taste. Indeed, the eminiscule current flow could stimulate some part
of the physiology. Various metals create various effects.

I;m sure eventually technology will create battery power hi-powered sucking
sticks, and an illegal trade in them, etc.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:22:17 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: A cry for help Suerrat Geonee

In the GDW era, these minor human races were not specifically detailed. I
agree with Carlos that the Geonee have a particular talent for Technical
stuff. I also see the Suerrat as the villains within Milieu 0, working against
the continuing success of the Third Imperium.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:26:01 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: TL9 Big PAW

>> I think you are thinking of mass drivers.  Different concept.  A PAW
fires
>> a stream of energetic particles (as in atomic patrticles) towards the
>> target.  A MD accelerates a chunk of ferrous metal using a magnetic
field.
>
>But if you accelerate them to near C velocity, doesn't the matter break
>down into energy at that point?  Becoming a mass of beamed particles?

You'd actually have to accelerate them to C or beyond, but you can't do that
with current technology.  Unless, you have a copy of Dr. Beer's work which
was classified and buried.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 06:30:55 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Biochemistries, Part III

Aslan Barbie Corporate Manager Playset? (remember, the majority of Aslan
aren't warriors...) 

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, J-Man wrote:

> > I apologize if I am over-reacting, but I get a litle tired of people
> > concluding that Aslan (or other SF feline aliens) behave like cats because
> > they look like cats. We used to get questions all the time about this. One
> > JTAS submission lo these many years ago described the most popular Aslan
> > childrens' toy as being a large ball of yarn. 
> 
> 
> Perhaps Aslan children play with things that human children would find
> potentially deadly, or at least harmful.
> 
> Like sharpened bladed jacks and a ball?  Mini-Knives?
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:37:00 -0500
From: Bill Prankard <BPRANKARD@theiia.org>
Subject: Galanglic-Sayat Phrasebooks

- --Boundary_(ID_lIuqEq/XZgW0T3wunyHPUg)
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN


>No, I will NOT write a Galanglic-Sayat tourist phrasebook.
>No, I will NOT write a Galanglic-Sayat tourist phrasebook.
>No, I will NOT write a Galanglic-Sayat tourist phrasebook.
>[...]

>Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
>TravLang Homepage:   
<http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
>Lair of the PMPP:   
<http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

>------------------------------

Why do I see a human walking into a Sayat-Spofulam weapons shop, reading   
from the book and sounding a bit like the Monty Python Sketch:

"I will not buy this Pelvicly Mounted Plasma Gun, it is scratched"
"My Air-Raft is full of eels"
"My (insert favorite body part here) explode with delight!"

Mind you, this could be common conversational speech to the Sayat :)

More insanity from the Commander
Cheers.  
- --Boundary_(ID_lIuqEq/XZgW0T3wunyHPUg)
Content-type: APPLICATION/X-TNEF; NAME=WINMAIL.DAT
Content-transfer-encoding: BASE64
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- --Boundary_(ID_lIuqEq/XZgW0T3wunyHPUg)--

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2231
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, January 14 1998    Volume 1997 : Number 2232



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: TL9 Big PAW
Re: TL9 Big PAW
Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy
Re: Trade Stations and Red crew/Blue crew
Re: Public Apology
Re: Public Apology
Re: Aslan
Re: Semo on BBS's
Re: Missile Design Question
Re: Public Apology
Prisoner - was Sayat conspiracy
Re:  Foundation
Re: ROM, The Long Night and Mileu 0
Re: Public Apology
Re: Foundation
Foundation and Traveller
THUDDD 8 voting to begin soon
Re: Routine Maintainence
Naval Architect's Manual
Metator License
Re: TL9 Big PAW
Communism (fwd)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:39:01 -0100 (GMT)
From: Urtzi <lcajaleu@xa.lc.ehu.es>
Subject: Re: TL9 Big PAW

 First, I would like to say 'hello!' to all TML members. I have recently 
subscribed (less than a week ago), and I see after a brief review 
that the level of some dicussions is as high as I expected at a 
Traveller-related list to be.

 I only ask you to forgive me for any English-related mistake you could 
(will) find; I am not as fluent as I would like (no flame wars because of 
gramatics, please ;-)!).
 
> >>...We have those today, don't we?  Utilizing ferrous mass in a cyclotron
> >>until near C velocities then discharging the energetic mass?
> >
> >I think you are thinking of mass drivers.  Different concept.(...) We 
> do have particle accelerators.  They are not weapons.  They are tools for
> scientific investigation.  The difference is only one of application.  If
> you were to point one of these tools were pointing at an enemy, it would be
> devastating.

 Well, I don't agree with this viewpoint. Real world (say, TL 8-9), high-
energy particle accelerators are enormous, delicate and energetically 
unefficient machines (just consider the power needs,dimensions and cost for
the LEP ring at the CERN or the failed SSC project, for example). In 
other words, I don't think they satisfy any of the physical requirements 
for a device which has to be used at war.
 
 PA's have another drawback: they are only suitable for use in vacuum. If 
used within an atmosphere, the particle beam would be quickly absorbed 
and dispersed by the air molecules along its path (and air would also 
enter into the vacuum chamber of the weapon itself, rendering it 
inoperative). This last drawback could be maybe solved if a laser beam 
was used to make an "tunnel" of hot, ionized air before shooting the PA 
itself (something like 2300 AD plasma weapons, at a MUCH larger scale). I don't 
have the figures but I remember, from what I readed, that the energy cost
would make it prohibitive (if this discussion continues, I will give some 
bibliography about the topic; it was a paper at "Scientific American", 
but I don't remember the date now. Sorry).

 A PA could use either charged (protons, electrons, alphas... or neutral 
particles (neutrons). Charged particle beams are more difficult to 
control, since they are affected by electrical and magnetic fields. This 
would be a great source of nice special effects: near a planetary 
magnetic field, we could have a curved beam! This leads to 
fascinating tactical possibilities (knowing the exact configuration of 
the planetary field at a given moment, you could "skip" planetary 
curvature to strike an enemy who is out of your line-of sight; he would 
have to destroy your magnetic orbital sensors before you have enough 
data to fire), but also to many complications, as the magnetic field is
very complex to mathematically model to predict its behavior. 

 On the other hand, generation of neutral particles such as neutrons 
require a radioactive source (as far as I know), with all its associated 
problems. They would not be affected by magnetic nor electrical fields, 
though.

 To summarize, I don't consider low-TL PA's to be efficient weapons in 
general (maybe we could suppose this changes at higher TL's, but that is 
quite risky in a hard SF setting. We need a good explanation).

  Anyway, they could be used as nice plot devices, if we consider them 
'objects' rather than just weapons. They can make space combat much 
richer, adding new tactical posibilities like the one I mentioned, but 
they can also give ideas for good scenarios :suppose that an attack 
against an orbital fleet is being planned with the "curved beam" 
technique, and the PC-s are hired by the attacker to make extensive scans of 
the planetary magnetic field, or escorting a surveying team to make them; or 
maybe a planetary government restricts research on mathematical modelling of 
magnetic fields for "national/planetary/whatever security reasons", and 
they have to steal the data from a military research center. Or maybe a 
space combat wits charged PA's coincides with a high stellar activity 
period, or...the possibilities are endless.

 Urtzi

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 06:55:52 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: TL9 Big PAW

Oh yes, there are reports that the Soviets at least did do some work
with 'particle-beam weapons', and we also did some experimentation with
them as part of the SDI. Do a literature or web search for those kinds of
topics if you want to know what experimental TL8 PAW's are like ;-)

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, J-Man wrote:

> Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> > 
> > At 01:02 AM 1/13/98 -0800, you wrote:
> > >What the heck does PAW stand for?
> > 
> > Particle Accelerator Weapon.
> > 
> > Doug.
> 
> 
> We have those today, don't we?  Utilizing ferrous mass in a cyclotron
> until near C velocities then discharging the energetic mass?
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 01:18:26 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Intercepted Darmine<>Sayat conspiracy

In mail you write:

>> The last line seems to be a closing. Meaning unclear. The placement of
>> the numeral at the boottom seems to indicate it is intended as a
>> signature. Again, significance, unknown.
>> 
>> The message was printed on a cellulose based material (paper) with a
>> "watermark" image that has been identified as a primitive Solomani
>> vehicle known as a "bicycle". Again, significance is unknown.
>
> "The Prisoner", starring Patrick Macgoohan (sp), as #6.
>
> Who is #1?  :)

"You are #6."

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 01:38:29 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Trade Stations and Red crew/Blue crew

In mail you write:

> Warehousing the cargo...
>
> Hmmm...
>
> The building that houses the cargo containers would be pretty standard.
> The incoming cargo could be housed in the temporary facilities provided by
> the starport (part of the cr100 you pay) for a week before you would have
> to move 'em (hopefully you have sold them by then).  For the goods being
> amassed by the on-planet factor, it would be cheaper to use warehousing
> off-port (since it's from the planet anyway, extra-territoriality should
> not be an issue, for transient goods, a bonded warehouse may be
> necessary), but if security is an issue then a warehouse in the downport,
> or even the highport may be preferred.

Actually, for cargo that can tolerate it (or whose containers can), the
warehouse may be nothing more than an orbital slot near the station,
with a beacon, and a cheap "foil" sunshade. 

Security is actually pretty good. Because traffic control will have a
record of everything that even came *close* to one of these "parking
slots". 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 01:15:23 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Public Apology

In mail you write:

> On 01/14/98 at 12:47 AM,  SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com> said:
>
>>>>Hmmm...  Guess somebody forgot to tell Cuba.
>
>>>Hmmm... Is this a suggestion that it's working there?    ;*)
>
> If the definition of working is to drive the best and brightest out of Cuba
> and across the Florida Straits, it's working.
>
>>Could be.  Could also be a flip response.  Who knows?  :)
>
> The Shadow? The Shadow knows!
>
> Eris
>      So, Leonard, do you know?

I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:17:00 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Bill Rutherford wrote:

> At 07:37 PM 1/13/98 EST, you wrote:
> >>You, sir... or should I say, comrade? -- are sounding suspiciously like
> >>some sort of pinko socialist ideologue.  Please try to keep in mind that
> >>Communism Has Been Proven Not to Work :|
> >
> >Hmmm...  Guess somebody forgot to tell Cuba.
> >
> 
> Hmmm... Is this a suggestion that it's working there?    ;*)
> 

	Hmmmm...against the determined political interference and active
trade embargo by it's natural geographic trade partner and largest
economic force in the world (the US) I think the fact that they're still
there and kicking is pretty well success enough. 

Yes, Cubans live in austerity, but they're a hell of a lot better off than
some of the _capitalist_ paradises in caribbean...Haiti, anyone? 

I dopn't want to get off in an off topic rant about evil commie cubans,
but 99% of their troubles have arisen because the US didn't like how they
did their revolution, and how they ran _their_ country, not because of any
inherent flaws in the communist system. 

Believe me...Cuba under Batista was in no way a democratic showcase. It
was just that he was on our side, not the Russians.

Besides...it's all the Yankees' fault. If they'd signed Castro as a second
baseman, none of this would have happened. ;-)

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:48:26 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: Aslan

In article <3721d40d.34bc3d5e@aol.com>, you wrote:
>
>> IIRC, in one of the sources, the Aslan were supposed to be descendants of
>> Terran cats.  They were captured by the ancients and  transported elsewhere.
>> After genetic manipulation, the neo-cats were released to develop on their
>> own.
>
>I am unaware of any GDW source that says this (if so, I declare it invalid,
>and I'm sure Marc and Frank will agree with me). This is pretty much how the
>Vargr developed, however. Perhaps you are confusing the two?

Just as support, (as if you needed any) Traveller Alien Module 1 : Aslan,
subtitled "Aventure and Intrigue with a Proud Warrior Race" states  :

" Aslan are descended from four-limbed carnivorous pouncer stock which
  was originally near the top of the food chain in the forests of
  Kusuyu (Kilrai' 0406 A876986-E). "

and the original "Contact" Article from JTAS8(?) (by Loren & the Keith's)
states :

"They are descended from four-limbed, upright, bipedal
 carnivore/pouncer stock, originally adapted to a solitary
 arboreal existance. The earliest Terran explorers saw in
 them a vague resemblance to the terran lion, and they have
 been described as lion-like ever since, although there is
 very little resemblance"


Frankie
(who, for the newbies, is not the "Frank" mentioned above :-)  )

    

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:08:46 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: Semo on BBS's

In article <05ce01bd20a4$9c9cf7a0$7c11fed0@default>,
"Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> wrote:
>SemoFetus said,
>
>
>>>I know how you feel, Semo.  I used to run a COMMODORE BBS, and we were
>>>all linked thru our CBASE software to each other all over the USA.  Of
>>>course, unlike fidonet, all us sysops had to pay our own long distance
>>>fees, which got really expensive with all the packet downloading we did.
>>>
>>>I haven't ran my BBS in 3 years.  Sigh.  The good ole days, eh?  :)
>>
>>Yep.  The good ol' days.  I guess its a trade off.  I can communicate with
>>Traveller people all over the world in a timely fashion, but talking to
>local
>>folk is quite a bit harder...
>>
>>The internet tears down borders, but that's not always a good thing.
>>
>>Semo
>
>Does anyone out there know where I can get a copy of Boyan (or something
>like it) usable with windows?  Or even one that requires DOS?

I'd suggest Maximus, it's free, runs well in a multitasking environment
and is pretty easy to personalize.

However, these days it's probably more appropriate to use Bink
or something similar to set up a PPP login, and just provide
a web server. Web pages are more fun than BBS menus.

- -- 
Frankie
    

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:39:40 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: Missile Design Question

Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com> asked:
>I'm winding up with Controlled missiles that have essentially Unlimited 
>endurance [...] It's just that the Fusion+ plant that powers the T Plates 
>uses so little fuel.  Is this right ?

There should be a minimum size for T-plates that makes their use on missiles
this small prohibitive.  Please check the text, because a lot of these items
are located in the text because they don't fit (or make sense) on the tables.


This reminds me of a question someone had recently about FF&S2 hull designs and
skimming.  FF&S2 states that the hull has to have hypersonic streamlining if
it will skim fuel (on the theory that if you're going to go flying through an
atmosphere at double-digit Mach numbers, you'll need a hull that was designed
to handle flight at double-digit Mach numbers).  The question was that this
requires a high amount of "waste space", according to the streamlining tables.

The answer is to check the text - hulls over 1000 cubic meters have waste space
calculated as if they are 1000 cubic meters.  In other words, if the table
says 15% waste space for streamlining, you waste 15% of the volume of the hull, 
or 150 cubic meters, whichever is smaller.



wildstar@qrc.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's Science Fiction, if, presuming technical competence on the part of
 the writer, he genuinely believes it could happen." --- John W. Campbell

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:36:22 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz) wrote:

>Bill Rutherford, alien fifth-columnist, wrote:
>>At 09:49 PM 1/13/98 EST, Kenji wrote:
>><Snip>...
>>>...the TERRIBLE TRUTH that "Traveller" is nothing but a recruitment
>>>tool for Godless atheistical FIENDS to seduce the troubled youth of America
>>>into playing AD&D and thus worshipping demons. ..
>>
>>Actually, we've always viewed Traveller, in all its incarnations, as the
>
>Look!  Look!  He's subliminally programming you all to believe in
>reincarnation and all those other heathen Hindoo blasphemies!  And, as we
>all know, India labors not only under the burden of idolatry, but of
>socialism!
>
>>good, logical, non-demonistic, healthy-role-playing alternative to those
>>sorts of games...  BTW - would a godless fiend truly try to subvert our
>>youth into worshiping demons?  Seems counterproductive from a godlessicity
>>(sp???) point of view...     ;*)
>
>See how he tries to defend them, now?  "Travel" on back to Moscow, why
>don'tcha, Mr. Rutherford!  We don't need totalitarians like you here in the
>Imperium!  And take your PINKO ANARCHY with you!

Is there a Doctor in the house? I do believe he's frothing at the mouth.... ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:24:05 +0000
From: Bruce E J Lewis <bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk>
Subject: Prisoner - was Sayat conspiracy

At 01:18 14/01/98 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> "The Prisoner", starring Patrick Macgoohan (sp), as #6.
>>
>> Who is #1?  :)
>
>"You are #6."
>
	Amazing how the lack of a single comma kept much of the nation guessing
for months each time this was shown. Thus...

	"Who is number one?"

	"You are, number 6."

	;-)


	See ya...

Bruce E J Lewis - mailto:bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk
Telephone - 0956-506527

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:33:56 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re:  Foundation

>Lessee...those titles were "Crustacean," "Crustacean and Umpire," and "Second
>Crustacean"

>No, that was something else... never mind.

Weren't those the titles for the SF expansion to Avalon Hill's famous
marine life combat game, "Advanced Squid Lunger"? 

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:51:05 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: ROM, The Long Night and Mileu 0

>Traveller is LARGELY based on the Dumarest saga, everything in it you
>can also find in Traveller, including SPECIFIC things like Low passage,
>high Passage, Medical drugs like Slow and Fast, the thoroughly
>SNAPSHOTish hand-to-hand combat, etc.

Foundation had a massive star-spanning empire that was vaguely feudalistic.
Long travel times between planets (although in Foundation if I remember
correctly this was based on computational time, not jump drive ability).  As
in Traveller, the long travel times led to a fuedal society.  Psychohistory.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:44:49 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

>If the definition of working is to drive the best and brightest out of Cuba
>and across the Florida Straits, it's working.

Or rather the richest.  Not always the same thing.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:00:24 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Foundation

>Weren't those the titles for the SF expansion to Avalon Hill's famous
>marine life combat game, "Advanced Squid Lunger"? 

Is it possible for a squid to get tuberculosis?  And if it is, can it become
acute enough to be called Advanced?  I applaud Avalon Hill for supplying us
with the answer.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:52:19 -0500
From: "Nathan & Terri Mezel" <hotchip@bignet.net>
Subject: Foundation and Traveller

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BD20E2.DE1A3880
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

There have been a couple of instances where Foundation has crept into =
Traveller canon.  The Psionic Suppressions were a result of a =
psycohistorical project gone wrong, see ref's library data in the =
Imperial Encyclopedia under psycohistory.

IMO naming the Imperium's first emperor after Foundation's last emperor =
is in homage to the late Grandmaster.

Nathan

- ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BD20E2.DE1A3880
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>There have been a couple of =
instances where=20
Foundation has crept into Traveller canon.&nbsp; The Psionic =
Suppressions were a=20
result of a psycohistorical project gone wrong, see ref's library data =
in the=20
Imperial Encyclopedia under psycohistory.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>IMO naming the Imperium's first =
<FONT=20
color=3D#000000>emperor </FONT>after Foundation's last emperor is in =
homage to the=20
late Grandmaster.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"" =
size=3D2>Nathan</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BD20E2.DE1A3880--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:39:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: THUDDD 8 voting to begin soon

We have nine very good designs submitted for the Subsidized Merchant
THUDDD (plus that Sayat thingy...).  Originally, I'd hoped to get the
voting webpage put together by last night, but that proved wishful
thinking on my part.  Expect voting to begin tonight (Wed. 1/14) or
tomorrow (1/15) instead.  Thanks for your patience!

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:45:43 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Routine Maintainence

Ian or Katts wrote:

> While trying to go to sleep, my brain turned over with a neat Traveller idea.
>
> Ships need Age/10 days of routine maintainence between jumps.
>
> This way, the brand new megacorp freighters can do their fast turnarounds,
> aided by trade stations, while the creaky old freighters have to sit on the
> tarmac for 5 days or so anyway, so the captain and/or purser might as well
> avoid the costs of paying for on-planet infrastructure and go looking for
> cargoes personally.
>
> The engineer just needs to oversight the process, needing age of ship in
> hours per day divided by engineering skill.
>
> Of course, this will also increases the rate of depreciation on starships
> by reduing their rate of earnings ... between being slower and more
> expensive to maintain I believe you could buy a 50 year old freighter for
> as little as 35% of sticker cost. Add obsolete (eg a TL11 freighter in the
> early 3I) and I think you could get the total price down to the cost of a
> deposit on a brand spanking new ship.
>
> Ian Whitchurch

I like this, because it also allows for all sorts of aftermarket add-ons!  (I'm
always looking for ways to separate the player from their credits)

'Equenden Light Industries, LIC is proud to present ELI field stabilization
unit.  Connect this unit in parallel with your Zucchai crystals* and activate
after Jump breakout - this unit is damp the post-jump field harmonics, returning
your Lanthium grid to a zero state in 75% of rated time!  With our automated
controllers and damping technologies (available as upgrades), it is actually
possible to return your grid to a zero state in as little as 50% of the normal
rated time!!  See your ELI representative today for additional information and
estimates!

* Use concurrent with an active jump field voids the warranty and is strongly
discouraged.'

douglas

- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword, get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jan 1998 13:11 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Naval Architect's Manual

Dear Travellers,

Well, I saw Naval Architect's Manual in the store, flipped
through it, and coveted it.  So I got my fiancee to get it
for me for Christmas.

I like it tons!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:29:35 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Metator License

Much to my disappointment, Metator no longer works.  Is this becaus its
license was only for "1997"?

Talk about built-in obselescence.  What do I need to do to get a fresh
license? (and will setting back my clock work ;)

Pete


Peter H. Brenton
MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center
(617) 253-3185
pbrenton@mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:47:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: TL9 Big PAW

> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:37:37 -0600
> From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
> 
> We do have particle accelerators.  They are not weapons.  They are tools for
> scientific investigation.  The difference is only one of application.  If
> you were to point one of these tools were pointing at an enemy, it would be
> devastating.

We do have them, but they'd make truly lousy weapons.  Obviously, if you
were standing directly in front of the business end of (say) the Stanford
Linear Accelerator, you'd be in very bad shape...but you could do
equivalent damage with a pistol, which is considerably smaller and cheaper
than SLAC. :)

Also, all current PAs accelerate charge particles only, so the output beam
would very rapidly disperse (over just a few meters, mostly likely) in an
atmosphere. 

In point of fact, I've never understood how an in-atmosphere PAW was
supposed to work; how do you maintain vacuum in the tunnel, but allow the
particle beam out the end of the tunnel?

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 98 06:17 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Communism (fwd)

Moin Richard A. Flores,

	first of all Stalinism is not Communism, its a dictature comparable
	to Hitlers fashism, imho. If you compare them and add Maoism, you
	have about 100 million victims, 4 times those 25 million victims of
	Hitlers fashism. Both are a shame.

> There is one historical example of true communism.  It worked because all
> the participants were voluntary and free to leave at any time.  This is also
> why some of the communes formed in the US during the 60's and 70's were as
> successful as they were (and some still are).

	I would rather think, that the successful communes have been anarchist.
	Anarchism can be economic viable inside a capitalist system.

	I've founded and lived in the Finkenburg for years, and this commune
	has grown from one house 10 years ago to a dozen houses plus one former
	US barrack today. The housing allone is worth of around 5 million DM.

	Together with several similar anarchist communes it forms the
	"project A" which has an unknown size of several 100 millon DM (0.7$)
	including its own association bank. Once you managed to build up a
	shadow economy, the lack of tax in this economy becomes an important
	factor for accumulating capital. "The Power of Disaperance" is of
	course a major factor in success, and makes counting difficult, as
	only members have a shimmer of links between the many small projects,
	and nobody holds a general overview.

> That historical example is the first century Christians.  They held
> everything in common and if any of them needed they got.

	As (unlike you suggestion) not all members had been "voluntary and
	free to leave at any time", and I'm drawing the line between anarchism
	and communism with the distinction of mutual free share of life and
	the slavery of a "masters plan", you could call them communist with
	full right. In this definition Israels Kibuz system is the most
	successfull working communism in current time. Most funny its in the
	same region. Traditional communism can also be found in many rural
	regions in the 3rd world, where the whole cottage shares the same
	acre and pasture. In Europa this system of "communism" was destroyed
	late between 1700 and 1900, by landlords claiming the former pastures
	and drawing fences for their sheep.

	Communism as a economic system can work under a lot of conditions
	including religious or political belief, tradition or oppression,
	often its a mix of all.

	ObTrav: Traveller does'nt have communism/capitalism as government
	codes as its posible to interprete communism into nearly of the codes.
	But Traveller has a canon region (Tansa) and culture (Lancia), which
	could be considered communist in a lot of relations. An other canon
	reference of communism can be found at World Tamers Handbook page 41,
	that pointed out that most Colonies start out with "Controlled Economy".
	As communism has nothing to do with freedom a "captative colony" is
	likely to classify as being communist.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2232
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, January 14 1998    Volume 1997 : Number 2233



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Foundation
Re: Public Apology
Re:  Foundation
Re: Metator License
Re: Foundation
Re: Public Apology
Re: TL9 Big PAW
Re: TL9 Big PAW
Re: Trade Stations and Red crew/Blue crew
Re: Public Apology
Contact Request...
Re: TL9 Big PAW
Frank G. Pitt on BBS's (was Semo on BBS's)
Re: Contact Request...
No. 6
More Trade Stations and Stuff
Re: Naval Architect's Manual
Re: Re: ROM, The Long Night and Mileu 0

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:19:04 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Foundation

At 10:37 PM 1/13/98 EST, Loren wrote:

>Doncha _love_ it when somebody discovers one of the classics for the first
>time?
>
>> I have been reading an old series of books called "Foundation" written by
>> Isaac Asimov around 1952.  

Ah, yes.. I remember Craig throwing me to the floor, sticking his copy of
Foundation in my hand, and threatening me with dire effects (such as the
end of our Traveller sessions) if I didn't read it immediately.

I read it in one sitting.  Great stuff.

Of course, I also read The Hobbit in one sitting, on board a cruise ship,
and was so engrossed that I ignored a life-boat drill...

- --

+------------------------*------------------------+
|    Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net     |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/index.html     |
+-------------------------------------------------+
| Truth resides in the human heart and one has to |
|  search for it there, and to be guided by the   |
|  truth as one sees it. But no one has the right |
|  to coerce others to act according to his own   |
| view of the truth.            -- Gandhi         |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:26:18 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

At 06:11 PM 1/13/98 +0800, Kenji ranted:

>Steve Deemer wrote:

>>Kenji Scharwz wrote:
>[snip]
>>>I am a sympathizer.

>>A fellow traveller, in other words.

>Dear God!!!!!!!  I bet this ENTIRE LIST IS CHOCK-FULL OF PERVERTED
>HUMAN-NATURE-DENYING COMMUNISTS!  That whole noble, bracing, morally
>uplifting wet dream that is the Imperium has just been a clever SHAM to
>cover up the TERRIBLE TRUTH that "Traveller" is nothing but a recruitment
>tool for Godless atheistical FIENDS to seduce the troubled youth of America
>into playing AD&D and thus worshipping demons.  I am STUNNED to learn the
>sort of company I've been keeping all this time.

DAMNIT KENJI!!!   I normally read mail and Usenet at the same time,
flipping back and forth..  I was reading alt.conspiracy just before opening
this message.

Now I have to clean the keyboard, my monitor, and the desk-bears, all of
which have acquired a fine coating of Salsa Victoria.

- --
+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "Some days, you just can't get rid  |
|  of a bomb!"                        |
|     -Adam West, the REAL Batman     |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:20:27 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re:  Foundation

At 08:33 AM 1/14/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>>Lessee...those titles were "Crustacean," "Crustacean and Umpire," and
"Second
>>Crustacean"
>
>>No, that was something else... never mind.
>Weren't those the titles for the SF expansion to Avalon Hill's famous
>marine life combat game, "Advanced Squid Lunger"? 

No, that's an expansion for "Creeks & Crawdads" the world's first realistic
post-holocausr RPG.

I'm not kidding.
- --
+-------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry        dberry@hooked.net |
|       http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
+-------------------------------------------+
| "The concentration of troops can be done  |
|         fast and easy, on paper."         |
|            -Field Marshal Radomir Putnik  |
+-------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:32:43 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Metator License

>Much to my disappointment, Metator no longer works.  Is this becaus its
>license was only for "1997"?
>
>Talk about built-in obselescence.  What do I need to do to get a fresh
>license? (and will setting back my clock work ;)
>
>Pete

Oops, The above was intended for Rob Directly, although I'm sure its of
interest  to the list at large (At least the Mac owners...).

Pete


Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:41:08 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Foundation

Douglas E. Berry wrote:

[snip]

> Of course, I also read The Hobbit in one sitting, on board a cruise ship,
> and was so engrossed that I ignored a life-boat drill...

Good thing it was a drill!  ;)


- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword, get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:31:35 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

At 07:17 AM 1/14/98 -0700, Bruce wrote:

>Yes, Cubans live in austerity, but they're a hell of a lot better off than
>some of the _capitalist_ paradises in caribbean...Haiti, anyone? 

I'd use Jamaica as my example of a sucessful Caribbean island economy myself..

>Besides...it's all the Yankees' fault. If they'd signed Castro as a second
>baseman, none of this would have happened. ;-)

You revisonist!  Castro was a pitcher (threw right, batted left) and got a
farm team try out from the Washington Senators.
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:49:34 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: TL9 Big PAW

At 11:47 AM 1/14/98 -0800, you wrote:

>We do have them, but they'd make truly lousy weapons.  Obviously, if you
>were standing directly in front of the business end of (say) the Stanford
>Linear Accelerator, you'd be in very bad shape...but you could do
>equivalent damage with a pistol, which is considerably smaller and cheaper
>than SLAC. :)

If you were in front of the business end of SLAC, you'd also be under a
mountain.  For those not familar with the facility, SLAC is a building
almost two miles long.

>Also, all current PAs accelerate charge particles only, so the output beam
>would very rapidly disperse (over just a few meters, mostly likely) in an
>atmosphere. 
>
>In point of fact, I've never understood how an in-atmosphere PAW was
>supposed to work; how do you maintain vacuum in the tunnel, but allow the
>particle beam out the end of the tunnel?

Ummm... they use "gently yielding energy fields"?
- --

+--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x+
| Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net x
x   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x-+
|          Embrace Fascism.          x
x       The uniforms look cool       |
+-x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--x-+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:44:42 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: TL9 Big PAW

At 09:48 PM 1/13/98 -0800, you wrote:
>> I think you are thinking of mass drivers.  Different concept.  A PAW fires
>> a stream of energetic particles (as in atomic patrticles) towards the
>> target.  A MD accelerates a chunk of ferrous metal using a magnetic field.
>> --

>But if you accelerate them to near C velocity, doesn't the matter break
>down into energy at that point?  Becoming a mass of beamed particles?

I never said near C.  In an atmosphere, 5000ft/sec is about the upper limit
before *any* round starts to melt.  Once you get the power supply problem
fixed (MDs need a load of power), the advantages are obvious.  All of the
round is projectile; you aren't hauling propellent and casings with you,
this allows a larger load.  Due to the extremely high velocity of the
round, you can build a smaller bore weapon with the same damage
characteristics as a much larger conventional gun.

The US Army was messing around with an experimental railgun-armed vehicle.
Before the project was dropped due to the power supply problem, they had
built a 40mm cannon which hit as hard as the sabot round fired from the
120mm main gun of a M1 tank.  The thing was almost 5m long, and had other
problems, but the technology is coming.
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry     dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/     |
|----------------------------------------|
| "The best tank terrain is that without |
|  anti-tank weapons."                   |
|            -Russian Military Doctrine  |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 13:00:06 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Trade Stations and Red crew/Blue crew

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
>
> > Warehousing the cargo...
> >
> > Hmmm...
> >
> > The building that houses the cargo containers would be pretty standard.
> > The incoming cargo could be housed in the temporary facilities provided by
> > the starport (part of the cr100 you pay) for a week before you would have
> > to move 'em (hopefully you have sold them by then).  For the goods being
> > amassed by the on-planet factor, it would be cheaper to use warehousing
> > off-port (since it's from the planet anyway, extra-territoriality should
> > not be an issue, for transient goods, a bonded warehouse may be
> > necessary), but if security is an issue then a warehouse in the downport,
> > or even the highport may be preferred.
>
> Actually, for cargo that can tolerate it (or whose containers can), the
> warehouse may be nothing more than an orbital slot near the station,
> with a beacon, and a cheap "foil" sunshade.
>
> Security is actually pretty good. Because traffic control will have a
> record of everything that even came *close* to one of these "parking
> slots".
>

First, let me say that I am *not* trying to ressurect the whole cargo loading
debate that flamed so wonderfully during the infamous piracy wars...

I can see where it would work for some cargos, especially ones that need
long-term storage and can take hard vacuum.  (what to do with that cargo you got
stuck with, and there is no market?)

I'm not sure that putting it in orbit around the mainworld would work tho'.
Close orbits are expensive (that's what we pay cr 100 for the first week, then
cr 100 per day for...), and the further out you place it, the worse the security
would be.

Which brings up another point...are insystem craft (shuttles, etc) required to
have transponders the same as jump ships?

What skills would be required to break into a warehouse? (Intrusion and
Electronics?)  What skills would be needed to get the cargo off-world? (Admin
and Bribery/Forgery?)  What skills would be needed to access free-orbit cargo?
(Forgery/Bribery?)

douglas


- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword, get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:35:16 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

On Wed, 1/14/98 Bruce Johnson wrote:


>On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Bill Rutherford wrote:
>
>> At 07:37 PM 1/13/98 EST, you wrote:
>> >>You, sir... or should I say, comrade? -- are sounding suspiciously like
>> >>some sort of pinko socialist ideologue.  Please try to keep in mind
that
>> >>Communism Has Been Proven Not to Work :|
>> >
>> >Hmmm...  Guess somebody forgot to tell Cuba.
>> >
>>
>> Hmmm... Is this a suggestion that it's working there?    ;*)
>>
>
> Hmmmm...against the determined political interference and active
>trade embargo by it's natural geographic trade partner and largest
>economic force in the world (the US) I think the fact that they're still
>there and kicking is pretty well success enough.
>
>Yes, Cubans live in austerity, but they're a hell of a lot better off than
>some of the _capitalist_ paradises in caribbean...Haiti, anyone?
>
>I dopn't want to get off in an off topic rant about evil commie cubans,
>but 99% of their troubles have arisen because the US didn't like how they
>did their revolution, and how they ran _their_ country, not because of any
>inherent flaws in the communist system.
>
>Believe me...Cuba under Batista was in no way a democratic showcase. It
>was just that he was on our side, not the Russians.
>
>Besides...it's all the Yankees' fault. If they'd signed Castro as a second
>baseman, none of this would have happened. ;-)

Let us not forget the Chinese.  Last I heard they were under a communist
regime (excuse me, I meant government) that was still a going concern.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 13:43:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Contact Request...

If you receive the TML and your name is on the following list:

    Berghold, Peter L.
    Blumberg, Seth
    Camp, Stephen
    Dale, Paul
    Gillespie, Brian
    Heck, Joe
    Jonell, Bertil
    Liaw, Wilson "Mac"
    Mansfield, Andrew
    Morrison, Bill
    Poole, Dale
    Rancke-Madsen, Hans
    Ritchie, Bruce T.
    Roald, Colin
    Salamon, Andrew
    Sergienko, Eric
    St. Clair, Kelly
    Sylvain, Nicholas
    Thoms, Keith H.
    Volovic, Marc
    Waylan, Craig

and you participated in the TML PBEM (5 or more years ago), please contact
me at your earliest convenience.

        - Mark F. Cook

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
       "Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny." - Lazarus Long

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 13:44:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: TL9 Big PAW

> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:47:38 -0800 (PST)
> From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>

I misspoke in my rush to post before lunch... :)

> Also, all current PAs accelerate charge particles only, so the output beam
> would very rapidly disperse (over just a few meters, mostly likely) in an
> atmosphere.

What I meant to say was:

Also, all current PAs accelerate charged particles only, so the output
beam will suffer serious absorption effects at quite short range (just a
few meters, probably).  Even if one buys the FFS model of 'atmospheric
tunneling', current PAs probably don't have beam energy densities high
enough to produce the effect to a useful extent.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:45:58 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Frank G. Pitt on BBS's (was Semo on BBS's)

Frank G. Pitt wrote:

>Richard A. Flores wrote:


[snip]
>>Does anyone out there know where I can get a copy of...

>I'd suggest Maximus, it's free, runs well in a multitasking environment
>and is pretty easy to personalize.
>
>However, these days it's probably more appropriate to use Bink
>or something similar to set up a PPP login, and just provide
>a web server. Web pages are more fun than BBS menus.


No argument here, but in the Tulsa local dialing area (the largest in USA),
there are over 100 active public BBS's and many of them have some great
stuff on them.

Now how do I get Bink?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:51:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert N Harris <rh1i+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Contact Request...

Excerpts from mail.TML: 14-Jan-98 Contact Request... by Mark Cook@peak.org 
> If you receive the TML and your name is on the following list:
>  
>     Berghold, Peter L.
>     Blumberg, Seth
>     Camp, Stephen
>     Dale, Paul
>     Gillespie, Brian
>     Heck, Joe
>     Jonell, Bertil
>     Liaw, Wilson "Mac"
>     Mansfield, Andrew
>     Morrison, Bill
>     Poole, Dale
>     Rancke-Madsen, Hans
>     Ritchie, Bruce T.
>     Roald, Colin
>     Salamon, Andrew
>     Sergienko, Eric
>     St. Clair, Kelly
>     Sylvain, Nicholas
>     Thoms, Keith H.
>     Volovic, Marc
>     Waylan, Craig
>  
> and you participated in the TML PBEM (5 or more years ago), please contact
> me at your earliest convenience.

Well 2 out of 3, I'm not on the above list but yes to the other 2. So I
thought I would go ahead and send some email. Sorry if you you don't
need the contact :-)

Rob Harris
(Tar Berana)


- ----------------------------------
Rob Harris
Center for Cognitive Brain Imaging
Dept. of Psychology, CMU
268-5210
rh1i+@andrew.cmu.edu 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:53:23 -0500
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: No. 6

Thus spake Bruce-a-thustra
>	Amazing how the lack of a single comma kept much of the nation guessing
> for months each time this was shown. Thus...
>	"Who is number one?"
>	"You are, number 6."
>
> See ya...

Should that not be "Be Seeing You"?

We Want Information...Information...Information

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:07:55
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: More Trade Stations and Stuff

At 02:38 PM 13/
>Ian:
>
>Your idea is exactly what one of my trading groups does.  The benefactor 
>is a count in the Lunion System, who put up the capital for the initial 
>downpayments....  His goal is to build a Sector-Wide trading firm, with 
>eventual goals of spanning the empire (might take a few generations, but 
>hey, it'll run in the family).
>

Many many moons ago there was a JTAS article on using stock issues to
finance starships, rather than the standard bank financing model.

>The group has grown to 5 ships already, with the captains aboard (mostly 
>people he knew from career days) becoming part owners in the company.  
>We are working on the factor issue right now (do they become owners 
>too?)  

I would at least put them on a profit share. Give the crew 10% of net
revenue a ship earns as pay and bonuses, and have the brokers cut in for
three points of the profit on every cargo they arrange. Or something like
that.

>
>This is how I see the other Subsector and Sector wide lines beginning.  
>Your theories of keeping your productive assets producing and your back 
>office support supporting is what business is all about.  Besides, if 
>you are running speculative business activities too, you may need to 
>store some cargo for a while in one of your own warehouses for further 
>transfer to another ship going down another "route".  

Yup. You might even store them on lo-tech worlds, where warehouse costs are
lower.

>
>Keep it up!  Now, where we don't really agree, the group has also 
>purchased a patrol cruiser for defense against pirates/corporate 
>raiders.  Having the count's deep pockets has helped too.

Patrol cruiser ? Feh. Assuming you are fighting light ships, you want light
weapons. Sit down with a copy of FFS2 and design a 10 dton fighter with a
600 MJ laser (well, at least 400 megajoules).

In game, pay a naval architect a lot of money to design a way of modifying
one of your existing standard-model traders to carry a half-dozen or so of
these.

Quietly get your count friend to investigate the possibility of getting one
of the licences for nuke-det missiles that the Navy doesnt issue. Or at
least a nice note from the Subsector Admiral in case you get busted. And
equip your Q-ship with a nuke damper (50kkm range) in any case.

Then go pirate hunting. Seven laser-armed bogeys should overload his sand
capabilities, allowing the hope of hitting two of his power plant, jump
drive and maneauver drive.

The alternative is the Elisabeth class Frontier Trader - although it *is*
probably well armed enough (2.1 gigajoule laser battery) to be classed as a
Colonial Cruiser *grin*.

At risk of being self serving, I also like the White Lightning for
anti-pirate work as well - it's the militarised version of the Moonshine 9G
Famile Spofulam fast freighter. Basic 9G hull, plus a pair of PAWs, extra
sand and a nuke damper. Armour is thin, but for 9 gees, what do you expect ?

If you want to be really sneaky, put out feelers to the pirates, and offer
to fence goods for them. Build up a relationship. Be nice to them. Then rat
on them to the Navy.
It's hard to be vengeful when you've been nuked to glow.

>
>Question.  I remember reading somewhere in published material about how 
>much a royal's holdings should provide him/her on an annual basis, and 
>the problems of taxes, and whether or not he is away from the fiefdom, 
>etc.  Anybody else remember that? 

Bits of it. In the end, I think it comes down to whether you regard the
Imperium as having the world or the noble as it's integral unit.

If you think the Imperium is made up of worlds and a series of interworld
bureaucracies headed by the Emperor, then taxes are probably levied on the
Imperium's consituent governments, then spent thru the IN, BuJustice,
BuColonisation and so on.

If you think the Imperium is made up of nobles who hold fealty from the
Emperor, then taxes per se may not be levied by the Imperium - rather,
nobles would own worlds or parts of worlds and/or have limited or unlimited
rights of taxation on their feifs (eg Duke Snorri is owed Cr10 per
displacement ton of hydrogen extracted from his most noble fief, the gas
giant Makhudan VI). The Emperor and his Imperium would be funded by the
rights held directly by the Emperor (eg a "golden share" of 20% in all
companies with an Imperial Warrant <eg xyz LIC>), and by the various feudal
levies on the nobility (eg having to pay the Emperor a years income when
the fief passes etc etc).

The Imperium could also have drifted from one system to another over time
.... between Cleon the Mad, Arbatrella and the Civil Wars, through to the
reforms of the seriously delayed if not late Strephon, there is lots of
room for fundamental reform of Imperial taxation.

There are also canon references to privately owned starports. It is also
cool to have starports given as fiefs ("In recognition of your services to
the Emperor Cleon and His Navy, we hereby invest you with a life feof to
the starport of Wendlesson/Massilla"), or owned by the planetary government
but still not subject to planetary law. Or have an Imperial starport
(inconvenient, but with an extrality fence) and a local starport (all the
traders are there, but it's subject to local law).

>
>Greg
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:36:17 -0800 (PST)
>From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
>Subject: Re: Trade Stations and Red crew/Blue crew
>

<cool stuff deleted>

>Needless to say, each step along this ladder decreases the scope of
>adventure opportunities.  A lone free trader can wander around at will,
>taking on odd jobs and 'special cargoes' to stay one jump ahead of the
>creditors.  A larger trade company, however, will have fixed routes and
>schedules in order to fulfill contractual obligations and meet wider
>company goals.  (Lando Calrissian's conversation with Han Solo from
>'The Empire Strikes Back' comes to mind.)  That's why many GMs skew events
>to keep free traders 'hungry', never letting them accumulate enough cash
>to 'settle down' and become respectable.

I think that "changes" is a better word than decreases.

I think T4 needs Merchant Prince brought up to speed. I think mapping out a
process of how a company managed the slow haul from fledgeling up would be
an excellent theme to wrap the supplement around.

It can happen backwards too ... the death of a megacorp would be a massive
opportunity for adventure and profit (I am reminded of Alan Marshall's
autobiography ... he was an accountant in a failing company in the Great
Depression, and the day before the company was to be liquidated, he sold
the worker's rented houses to them for whatever cash they had. He risked
legal action from the company's liquidators and possible jail, but the
ex-employees would have a legal title to their houses and not be thrown out
onto the street).

>
>> This will do wonderful things to profitability.
>
>Yep.  It's yet another example of the old maxim, "It takes money to make
>money."

Looking at the numbers, it's not that much money, at least not compared to
6% of the starship's cost per annum, which is what you pay under a standard
financing contract.

>
>> I am figuring a on-planet Factor would get paid say Cr 5000 a month, and
>> the office and warehouse space would cost a similar amount - maybe twice
>> this at an A starport, 75% at a C starport, 50% at a D and at an E he is
>> the facility.
>
>I came up with my figures without reading yours, and it seems we're in
>rough agreement.  I like making the price depend on starport quality in
>addition to TL.  Note also that I was assuming orbital facilities; for
>on-planet facilities, halve my numbers and eliminate the TL dependency.

*nod* although having the Factor safe and in orbit could have advantages as
well.

Has anyone designed any small, cheap orbital facilities under FFS2 ?

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:22:25 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Naval Architect's Manual

Robert Eaglestone said:


>Dear Travellers,
>
>Well, I saw Naval Architect's Manual in the store, flipped
>through it, and coveted it.  So I got my fiancee to get it
>for me for Christmas.
>
>I like it tons!

Richard Flores replied:

What is that?  Who put it out?  Where did you find it?  Do I need to go back
to The Game Shop?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:25:22 -0500
From: "Scott Spieker" <scspieker@ncweb.com>
Subject: Re: Re: ROM, The Long Night and Mileu 0

>Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:51:05 EST
>From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
>Subject: Re: ROM, The Long Night and Mileu 0

>>Traveller is LARGELY based on the Dumarest saga, everything in it you
>>can also find in Traveller, including SPECIFIC things like Low passage,
>>high Passage, Medical drugs like Slow and Fast, the thoroughly
>>SNAPSHOTish hand-to-hand combat, etc.

>Foundation had a massive star-spanning empire that was vaguely feudalistic.
>Long travel times between planets (although in Foundation if I remember
>correctly this was based on computational time, not jump drive ability). As
>in Traveller, the long travel times led to a fuedal society. Psychohistory.

>Semo

	I agree that the "technology" behind the story line is not as close to
Traveller, but my intentions were to point out my view point of how the
background stories are similar.  There may not be a 'real' connection
between the two sets of books (i.e. Traveller and Foundation), but I
certainly see several points that _could_ be used to help flesh out the
traveller time line during a period that is vaugely recorded.

Scott

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2233
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, January 14 1998    Volume 1997 : Number 2234



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Off-topic: Cuba (was: Re: Public Apology)
Re: Annililik Run (Adventure 3)
Re: T4 release update? and Hello, the list
Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs
Re: TL9 Big PAW
Re: Naval Architect's Manual
Re: No. 6
Re: TL9 Big PAW
Re: Public Apology
Re: Public Apology
Re: Public Apology
Religion Careers
Re: TL9 Big PAW
Re: FFS2 streamlining (was re: Missile Design Question)
Re: Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs
Re: Move over, Sayat machine translators!
Re: Dumarest Saga partial list
Re: Trade Stations and Red crew/Blue crew
Re: Routine Maintainence
Re: Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:36:23 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Off-topic: Cuba (was: Re: Public Apology)

Bruce Johnson writes:

>> >Hmmm...  Guess somebody forgot to tell Cuba.
>> >
>> 
>> Hmmm... Is this a suggestion that it's working there?    ;*)
>> 
>
>	Hmmmm...against the determined political interference and active
>trade embargo by it's natural geographic trade partner and largest
>economic force in the world (the US) I think the fact that they're still
>there and kicking is pretty well success enough.

   How successful Cuba turned out to be was determined the day the Russians
(aka Soviets) cut off all the aid they had been pouring into the country
(IMHO, the real reason the Americans didn't invade Cuba all those years
wasn't the fear of Soviet nuclear retaliation, it was the drain Cuba placed
on the Soviet's budget).  Cuba continues to survive on the infrastructure
built during the Cold War era, money generated from European tourists, and
the charisma of Fidel Castro, who has managed to keep the majority of Cubans
under his thumb and obedient through a combination of secret police tactics
and hours long hate speeches aimed at the US.

>Yes, Cubans live in austerity, but they're a hell of a lot better off than
>some of the _capitalist_ paradises in caribbean...Haiti, anyone? 

   Cuba is a repressive dictatorship, but it is well-run repressive
dictatorship.  Corrupt officials are rounded up, given a "show trial" and
shot (this has the side effect of making Fidel look good to his people).  In
Haiti, and in too many other places, corruption is considered to be part of
the social fabric.  The exceptional government official *not* on the
take--bribes are part of a business' operating expenses.

   In conditions such as those, it's no wonder that Cuba looks good in
comparison.  A capitalist economy in and of itself is no guarantee of
prosperity for the masses.

>I don't want to get off in an off topic rant about evil commie cubans,
>but 99% of their troubles have arisen because the US didn't like how they
>did their revolution, and how they ran _their_ country, not because of any
>inherent flaws in the communist system. 

   We had no problem with their revolution per se, it was the company that
Castro insisted on keeping afterward, and his own words that made the US a
mortal enemy. 

   Remember, this is the guy who allowed the Soviets to base nuclear
missiles in his country aimed at the U.S.--that doesn't get you "Most
Favored Nation" Trade status, even if you paid the Clinton '96 Presidential
Campaign a sizeable bribe (it did however work for China...).

>Believe me...Cuba under Batista was in no way a democratic showcase. It
>was just that he was on our side, not the Russians.

   It was a stereotypical banana republic, where the American Mafia
controlled a hefty percentage of hotels and casinos.  The US frankly didn't
give a rat's ass about Batista, which is probably why Castro and his people
were able to run a guerilla operation down there.  US intelligence was no
doubt looking at Castro's credentials (graduated from USC if I recall
correctly, and had spent a lot of time in the US) and figured that in the
worst case scenario he'd turn out to be another Batista and if they had to
they'd bump him off.  Seeing him standing around and buddying up to
Khrushchev and the gang later on came as a surprise to everybody (in a Ellen
Degeneres sort of way).

>Besides...it's all the Yankees' fault. If they'd signed Castro as a second
>baseman, none of this would have happened. ;-)

   There was more than one missed opportunity in the Cold War.  For example,
Ho Chi Minh was for all practical purposes in the back pocket of the
Americans (an OSS agent was present at the official ceremony in which Ho
declared Vietnam's independence, and Ho's guerilla band had regularly
cooperated with efforts to help locate downed American flyers, and resisted
the Japanese occupation) before British troops arrived and restored French
colonial rule as WW II came to an end.  

   Later on in the 1950s, the Americans sided with the French in their
struggle against the Vietnamese resistence (by then, Ho had started cozying
up to the Chinese--the Vietnamese natural enemy).  Had things worked out
differently, the newspapers of the day would have talked about "our friends
the Vietnamese, who stood in the face of Communist aggression from the north
(in this case the People's Republic of China), and their leader Ho Chi Minh".

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 98 23:01 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Annililik Run (Adventure 3)

In-Reply-To: <Pine.HPP.3.96.980113162429.14470A-100000@tx.ENGR.ORST.EDU>

Clark,

> Has anyone else seen this?  I bought it a couple of weeks ago.

Just seen a copy in Virgin, so a 'where the f*ck is my copy?' email 
will soon be heading IG-wards.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:15:18 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: T4 release update? and Hello, the list

V.A.G wrote:

> Stevie D (aka Bloo) wrote:
> >
> > When last I left the list, I was really enjoying playtesting with a beta
> > of T4 character generation rewrites.  Have there been any changes?  Is
> > there a newer version available.

> AFAIK, 4.1 will be out sometime before Christmas ;-)

Great, just when I know I'll have to take a long hiatus from playing after
taking the bar and becoming a lawyer.  :-(

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:29:09 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs

Has anyone developed any system for designing space stations, starports
(high ones in particular), deep bases. etc.?  [I don't have any CT
stuff, strictly T4 - really wish I had save my CT stuff :-( ]

As far as design, I guess much of ship design elements could be
utilized: power plants, hangars, airlocks, hatches, life support,
accomodations, sensors, communictations, weaponry and defenses, laps,
workshops, etc.  But what about things like stabilization thrusters,
manuevering gets, etc.?  The need for them would be much less, but the
volume to be moved would be much greater.

Basically, it seems to me that many such structures would be fairly
identical.  For instance, Naval Bases would designs would probably vary
only by size, i.e., all small ones would be identical, ditto for large
ones.  But trading stations and starports might vary widely.

I guess what I'm looking for is a Space Stations Architect's Manual more
than anything, since what I usually need is floor plans and details for
role-playing and the like.

I'm thinking that if no one has done something like this, that I might.
But I don't want to do the work if someone already has.  :-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:48:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: TL9 Big PAW

> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:49:34 -0800
> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
> Subject: Re: TL9 Big PAW
>
> >In point of fact, I've never understood how an in-atmosphere PAW was
> >supposed to work; how do you maintain vacuum in the tunnel, but allow the
> >particle beam out the end of the tunnel?
> 
> Ummm... they use "gently yielding energy fields"?

:) Mebbe.  I was leaning towards Maxwell's Demon, personally.  (Demon!
Hear that, Kenji?  Mwah ha ha!)

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:44:49 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph Heck <ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: Naval Architect's Manual

> >Well, I saw Naval Architect's Manual in the store, flipped
> >through it, and coveted it.  So I got my fiancee to get it
> >for me for Christmas.
> >
> Richard Flores replied:
> 
> What is that?  Who put it out?  Where did you find it?  Do I need to go back
> to The Game Shop?

Great supplement! I really like the stuff inside, although I do
sometimes wish the text matched the plans a little better. You notice
there just "aren't" any small ships using these layouts? Who cares - you
can always cram but I never had good layout ideas for the really, really
big ships (luxury liners, etc).

- -- 
 joe                          (573) 884-6766
 ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu    http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/
 PGP Fingerprint: E3 3F DF 08 BE 3E 44 A0  EE A9 80 7E 22 99 CD DF

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:45:57 +0000
From: Bruce E J Lewis <bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk>
Subject: Re: No. 6

At 15:53 14/01/98 -0500, Glenn Crawford wrote:
>
>Thus spake Bruce-a-thustra
>>	Amazing how the lack of a single comma kept much of the nation guessing
>> for months each time this was shown. Thus...
>>	"Who is number one?"
>>	"You are, number 6."
>>
>> See ya...
>
>Should that not be "Be Seeing You"?
>
	With a salutation like the one above, it could be anything you want ol' chap!

	Anyway, if a whole tv series can be made around the incorrectly assumed
inflexion of a single statement, couldn't something similar be done in a
Traveller scenario? Often two words - or names - sound similar but mean
different things. There are two systems in the Spinward Marches that have
similar sounding names, and actually border each other. They are Dinom and
Dinomn. What fun one could have spending six months sending the characters
to the wrong place!

	And of course, there are a few systems too in the Marches that have
completely the same name! Heroni for instance is the name of a system in
both the Rhylanor and Mora subsectors! There are others, but I can't
remember what they are.

	So, be seeing ya!

	Bruce E J Lewis <bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:51:10 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: TL9 Big PAW

Craig Berry said:


>> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:37:37 -0600
>> From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
>>
>> We do have particle accelerators.  They are not weapons.
>> They are tools for scientific investigation.  The difference is
>> [] one of application.  If you were to point one of these tools
>> [] at an enemy, it would be devastating.

Please allow me to correct a typo or two.  The first word of the 3rd line
(only) and the first two words of line 4 (were pointing) should not have
been there.  I replaced the errant words with a [] to indicate the
correction.

>We do have them, but they'd make truly lousy weapons.  Obviously, if you
>were standing directly in front of the business end of (say) the Stanford
>Linear Accelerator, you'd be in very bad shape...but you could do
>equivalent damage with a pistol, which is considerably smaller and cheaper
>than SLAC. :)

True, but they were not designed to be weapons.  A high pressure water jet
(like those used to clean hardwater deposits out of boilers) will cut a man
in half, but a long sword is cheaper.

>Also, all current PAs accelerate charge particles only, so the output beam
>would very rapidly disperse (over just a few meters, most likely) in an
>atmosphere.
>
>In point of fact, I've never understood how an in-atmosphere PAW was
>supposed to work; how do you maintain vacuum in the tunnel, but allow the
>particle beam out the end of the tunnel?

The last thing I read on the subject (several years ago) was about a
proposed new technology using stimulated emission (like a LASER or MASER) to
seriously shorten tunnel lengths.  IIRC, it was on an order of thousandths,
so that a "tunnel" a few meters long could do the work of the old style
facilities that had tunnels measured in km.

Maybe one of the scientists who monitor and/or comment on TML will know what
I'm talking about and could perhaps offer an update on progress.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:07:25 -0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Public Apology

Douglas Berry wrote:

>DAMNIT KENJI!!!   I normally read mail and Usenet at the same time,
>flipping back and forth..  I was reading alt.conspiracy just before opening
>this message.
>
>Now I have to clean the keyboard, my monitor, and the desk-bears, all of
>which have acquired a fine coating of Salsa Victoria.

VICTORIA, eh?  A fine whitewash of arch-imperialist dead white token female
obfuscation, indeed!

Whoops.  Wrong persona.  Sorry.

M. Kenji

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:57:36 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

Douglas E. Berry <dberry@hooked.net> wrote:


>At 07:17 AM 1/14/98 -0700, Bruce wrote:
>
>>Yes, Cubans live in austerity, but they're a hell of a lot better off than
>>some of the _capitalist_ paradises in caribbean...Haiti, anyone?
>
>I'd use Jamaica as my example of a sucessful Caribbean island economy myself..
>
>>Besides...it's all the Yankees' fault. If they'd signed Castro as a second
>>baseman, none of this would have happened. ;-)
>
>You revisonist!  Castro was a pitcher (threw right, batted left) and got a
>farm team try out from the Washington Senators.

I believe the "Yankees" are also to be blamed (by some) for Maoism.  Mao
came to the US to ask for help and was turned down cold, so he went to the
Soviets and they helped him.  Who knew?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:10:24 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

At 11:59 AM 1/13/98 -0800, Jim Cooper wrote:
....
>May I suggest a book - Looking Backward 2000-1887 by Edward Bellamy -
>which has a vaque similarity as to how it could be made to work - such
>that everyone benefits - equally - but alas it was all just a dream.

I did not like it very much, though I do salute him for the many good
predicitons he made while looking into the future.  James Hogan's "Past
Through Tomorrow" had a strong communistic streak, and had a more
"realistic" feel for me.  But then, I am a sucker for any book with
antimatter as a power source.

Hogan also creates a society without money or material wealth being related
to status, but it has a more SF feel, as it is set on a colony in Alpha
Centauri.  It seems to mesh better, partly because he is writing closer to
today.  He has the advantage of high tech robots to do production, no
outside influences to force conformance, and a very small first generation,
such that a fad could become a culture.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:49:12 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Religion Careers

Has anyone ever developed a religion career for traveller?

I was reading the Deathstalker books recently and was intrigued by the
Church of Christ the Warrior.  Commando Deacons, Militant Monks,
Battling Bishops.  The leader of the church wore black battledress with
a white cross on it (I also pictured a little white square in the
rectangle).  While I can see that a game makers would want to keep out
of this potentially sensitive area (although I don't know if it was a
conscious decision or not), I think religion can be a very powerful tool

in both holding an interstellar empire together, or expanding one,
especially into low-tech systems.

There could be a connection to psionics, although I'm not sure thats
ideal.  I had considered a parallel "Faith" stat, that would give
abilities similar to psionics like healing, etc., but that isn't ideal.
I think ultimately, no powers, etc., are necessary, and that those who
belong to a religion may receive what ever tangible benefits that church

can give (e.g., the church can give you a career assiting with spreading

the word or battling the infidel), but that they should be limited to
that church's codes of conduct losing those benefits if caught violating

them (and branded heretic, excommunicated, denied communion/nirvana,
etc.), with all the excellent role-playing opportunities that might
provide.

[Forgive the vaguely catholic tilt to my examples, they are presented as

illustration only.  Pastors, Rabbis, Imams, Dalai Llamas, those who
serve St. Elvis, etc., would all be possibilities.]

I appreciate any feedback.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:46:42 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: TL9 Big PAW

Craig Berry said:

>Also, all current PAs accelerate charged particles only, so the output
>beam will suffer serious absorption effects at quite short range (just a
>few meters, probably).  Even if one buys the FFS model of 'atmospheric
>tunneling', current PAs probably don't have beam energy densities high
>enough to produce the effect to a useful extent.

The Simulated Emission system I spoke of earlier, would overcome the beam
density problem quite handily, without even needing a longer tunnel (just
longer to power up).  Just like a laser's energy density is directly related
to the length of time you can hold the energy in the stimulation system.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:53:32 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: FFS2 streamlining (was re: Missile Design Question)

Wildstar writes
>This reminds me of a question someone had recently about FF&S2 hull designs and
>skimming.  FF&S2 states that the hull has to have hypersonic streamlining if
>it will skim fuel (on the theory that if you're going to go flying through an
>atmosphere at double-digit Mach numbers, you'll need a hull that was designed
>to handle flight at double-digit Mach numbers).  The question was that this
>requires a high amount of "waste space", according to the streamlining tables.

>The answer is to check the text - hulls over 1000 cubic meters have waste space
>calculated as if they are 1000 cubic meters.  In other words, if the table
>says 15% waste space for streamlining, you waste 15% of the volume of the hull, 
>or 150 cubic meters, whichever is smaller.

This has the interesting effect that it's actually vastly more efficient 
to streamline the whole AHL than to streamline
the fuel shuttles.

I was the person who asked about this, and I still
disagree - it's not clear to me that the
waste space numbers oare reasonable or
that you need the equivalent of hypersonic streamlining for earth to do 
meaningful skimming of atmosphere from a gas giant (where either the 
densities/pressures are much lower, or you're deep in the atmosphere and
don't need to move at hypersonic speed.)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:02:57 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs

Historically, I have simplyed designed a starship w/o engines.. :)

Seemed to simple to work, but has seemed to..


> Has anyone developed any system for designing space stations, 
starports
> (high ones in particular), deep bases. etc.?  [I don't have any CT
> stuff, strictly T4 - really wish I had save my CT stuff :-( ]
>
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    Book (n): a utensil used to pass time while waiting
    for the TV repairman.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:31:05 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Move over, Sayat machine translators!

Doug Berry wrote:

>>looked fine and fluent just as it was.  ISTR that we did insist that they
>>offer "lady of the night" as a more genteel alternative to "harlot",
>>however.
>
>You realize that now every other phrase put out the translator will be "I
>want to view your bosom."

Which, of course, when picked up by the Ithklur translation package,
becomes "I'm gonna pry your chest open to the sunshine".

>>No, I will NOT write a Galanglic-Sayat tourist phrasebook.
>>No, I will NOT write a Galanglic-Sayat tourist phrasebook.
>>No, I will NOT write a Galanglic-Sayat tourist phrasebook.
>
>Oh yes, you will.  But only after watching the "Hungarian phrasebook"
>sketch by MPFC about thirty times.
>
>My nipples tingle with excitment!

You sick Commie devil-worshiping atheist gearhead, you!

I forget, was it Lunacharsky or Hoxha who said, "revolution is titclamps
plus electricity"?

Seriously, though: anyone who has SERIOUS (really, I mean it) serious ideas
for a Traveller phrasebook (Vilani<>Galanglic) should drop on by the
TravLang list and begin sharing ideas.  Things are too quiet over there
these days...


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:37:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dumarest Saga partial list

It would seem that all of these titles postdate Traveller, unless they are
2nd or later editions.  Are they?


Clark


On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Stevie D (aka Bloo) wrote:

> J-Man wrote:
> 
> > Traveller is LARGELY based on the Dumarest saga, everything in it you
> > can also find in Traveller, including SPECIFIC things like Low passage,
> > high Passage, Medical drugs like Slow and Fast, the thoroughly
> > SNAPSHOTish hand-to-hand combat, etc.
> 
> Ok.  I've never heard of Dumarest, which surprises me given the years of
> book retail experience I have.  Oh well.  Amazon shows the following
> titles, which may or may not all be Dumarest related.  Virtually all of
> them are "Hard to Find."  Any hints on which one is best?  Or should I
> start with #1, "Winds of Gath."  I'm always game for at least one novel of
> a sci-fi series.
> 
> Bloo
> 
>                            Angado : Dumearest of Terra No. 29
>                                    E. C. Tubb / Published 1984
>                                    (Hard to Find)
> 
>                               Breakaway
>                                    E. C. Tubb
>                                    (Hard to Find)
> 
>                               Collision Course (Space - 1999)
>                                    E.C. Tubb / Published 1975
>                                    (Hard to Find)
> 
>                               The Coming Event
>                                    E. C. Tubb / Published 1982
>                                    (Hard to Find)
> 
>                               Derai : Dumarest of Terra No. 2
>                                    E.C. Tubb / Published 1982
>                                    (Hard to Find)
> 
>                               Earth Is Heaven
>                                    E. C. Tubb / Published 1982
>                                    (Hard to Find)
> 
>                               Iduna's Universe
>                                    E.C Tubb / Published 1979
>                                    (Hard to Find)
> 
>                               The Jester at Scar
>                                    E. C. Tubb / Published 1982
>                                    (Hard to Find)
> 
>                               Kalin : Dumarest of Terra No. 4
>                                    E. C. Tubb / Published 1982
>                                    (Hard to Find)
> 
>                               Lallia : Dumerest of Terra, No. 6
>                                    E.C. Tubb / Published 1982
>                                    (Hard to Find)
> 
>                               Mayenne and Jondelle
>                                    E.C. Tubb / Published 1981
>                                    (Hard to Find)
> 
>                               Melome
>                                    E. C. Tubb / Published 1983
>                                    (Hard to Find)
> 
>                               Pawn of the Omphalos
>                                    E.C Tubb / Published 1980
>                                    (Hard to Find)
> 
>                               Quillian Sector: Dumarest of Terra Number 19
>                                    E.C Tubb / Published 1978
>                                    (Hard to Find)
> 
>                               Stardeath
>                                    E. C. Tubb / Published 1983
>                                    (Hard to Find)
> 
>                               Symbol of Terra (Dumarest of Terra, No 30)
>                                    E.C. Tubb / Published 1984
>                                    (Hard to Find)
> 
>                               Technos : Dumarest of Terra No. 7
>                                    E. Tubb / Published 1982
>                                    (Hard to Find)
> 
>                               The Temple of Truth (Dumarest of Terra, No
> 31)
>                                    E.C. Tubb / Published 1985
>                                    (Hard to Find)
> 
>                               The Terra Data
>                                    E.C. Tubb / Published 1980
>                                    (Hard to Find)
> 
>                               The Terridae: Dumarest of Terra
>                                    E.C. Tubb / Published 1981
>                                    (Hard to Find)
> 
>                               Toyman : Dumarest of Terra No. 3
>                                    E.C. Tubb / Published 1982
>                                    (Hard to Find)
> 
>                               Veruchia
>                                    E. C. Tubb / Published 1982
>                                    (Hard to Find)
> 
>                               Web of Sand : Dumarest of Terra, No. 20
>                                    E.C. Tubb / Published 1979
>                                    (Hard to Find)
> 
>                               The Winds of Gath : Dumerest of Terra Number
> 1
>                                    E. C. Tubb / Published 1982
>                                    (Hard to Find)
> 
>                               World of Promise
>                                    E.C. Tubb / Published 1980
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:38:02 -0600
From: "Mark Laney" <cowhead@scott.net>
Subject: Re: Trade Stations and Red crew/Blue crew

- ----------
>
> What skills would be required to break into a warehouse? (Intrusion and
> Electronics?)  What skills would be needed to get the cargo off-world?
(Admin
> and Bribery/Forgery?)  What skills would be needed to access free-orbit
cargo?
> (Forgery/Bribery?)
> 
Actually does security really matter. Anything that important to your
character you wouldn't leave  and anything else you get insurance to cover.
So if somebody takes your stuff you still get paid.

Ciao.
Mark.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:31:37 -0600
From: "Mark Laney" <cowhead@scott.net>
Subject: Re: Routine Maintainence

>  Ian Whitchurch,say"

> While trying to go to sleep, my brain turned over with a neat Traveller
idea.
> 
> Ships need Age/10 days of routine maintainence between jumps".

In our game all ships have a reliability number. That is based on age ,
grade of annual maintenance and number of misjumps. You can rush turnaround
for jump but the reliability number of the ship affects the chance of
misjumping and the results. Sort of similiar results with newer ships being
the prefered ship for safety and for turnaround. the older the ship the
harder it is to keep up and the more expensive it is . After a while you
really would rather have a newer ship than the old clunker. It may be more
expensive but you can sleep at better at night knowing that you will live
to get to the next port.

Ciao.
Mark.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:02:04 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs

Bloo said,


>Has anyone developed any system for designing space stations, starports
>(high ones in particular), deep bases. etc.?  [I don't have any CT
>stuff, strictly T4 - really wish I had save my CT stuff :-( ]
>
>As far as design, I guess much of ship design elements could be
>utilized: power plants, hangars, airlocks, hatches, life support,
>accomodations, sensors, communictations, weaponry and defenses, laps,
>workshops, etc.  But what about things like stabilization thrusters,
>manuevering gets, etc.?  The need for them would be much less, but the
>volume to be moved would be much greater.

If you have FF&S then you wouldn't ask, so here are some ideas I used before
I got it:

Using the QSDS:  Start with a 4000 Td Box U, and 6-5000 Td Wedge U.  Weld
the back ends of the 5,000 Td hulls to 5 of the 6 sides of the 4,000 Td
hull.  You now have a 34,000 Td hull.  Add 1,000 Td of Small Craft External
Grapples (say for 20 Pinnaces or 100 fighters or 25 Cutters or some
combination adding up to 1,000 Td total) to bring your total to 30,000 Td.
Install a 108 Td HEPlaR drive (or a 536 Td T-Plate) to give you 1 g (10
m/s/s) accelleration.  Or install an 11 Td HEPlaR drive (or 54 Td T-Plate)
to give you a 0.1 g (1 m/s/s) accelleration.  Or...  Everything else (power
plants, accomodations, weapons, etc.) is pretty much standard.

>Basically, it seems to me that many such structures would be fairly
>identical.  For instance, Naval Bases would designs would probably vary
>only by size, i.e., all small ones would be identical, ditto for large
>ones.  But trading stations and starports might vary widely.
>
>I guess what I'm looking for is a Space Stations Architect's Manual more
>than anything, since what I usually need is floor plans and details for
>role-playing and the like.

Let me know if you find anything like that.  If you want some ship deck
plans, you might check out http://www.ifi.uio/~tommyg/Trav/Trav_ships.html
or, you might try following the ring.  I think I saw more elsewhere on it,
but I can't remember where.

>I'm thinking that if no one has done something like this, that I might.
>But I don't want to do the work if someone already has.  :-)
>
>Bloo
_______________

I must be Travelling,

Richard A. Flores
_______________

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2234
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 15 1998     Volume 1997 : Number 2235



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: FFS2 streamlining (was re: Missile Design Question)
Re: Public Apology
Suerrat and Genoee
Asimov
Re: Routine Maintainence
Re: FFS2 streamlining (was re: Missile Design Question)
Re: Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs
System numbering
Re: Routine Maintainence
Re: orbital facilities
Re: Routine Maintainence
Re: Routine Maintainence
Re: Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs
Re: Public Apology
Let's say books
Re: Routine Maintainence
Re: More Trade Stations and Stuff
Re: Phrasebooks
Re: Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:10:41 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: FFS2 streamlining (was re: Missile Design Question)

Bruce Alan Macintosh said:

>Wildstar writes
>>This reminds me of a question someone had recently about FF&S2 hull designs and
>>skimming.  FF&S2 states that the hull has to have hypersonic streamlining if
>>it will skim fuel (on the theory that if you're going to go flying through an
>>atmosphere at double-digit Mach numbers, you'll need a hull that was designed
>>to handle flight at double-digit Mach numbers).  The question was that this
>>requires a high amount of "waste space", according to the streamlining tables.
>
>>The answer is to check the text - hulls over 1000 cubic meters have waste
space
>>calculated as if they are 1000 cubic meters.  In other words, if the table
>>says 15% waste space for streamlining, you waste 15% of the volume of the
hull,
>>or 150 cubic meters, whichever is smaller.


I was wondering if you could use the waste space or a portion of it for fuel
storage?  Like wing tanks?

>This has the interesting effect that it's actually vastly more efficient
>to streamline the whole AHL than to streamline
>the fuel shuttles.
>
>I was the person who asked about this, and I still
>disagree - it's not clear to me that the
>waste space numbers oare reasonable or
>that you need the equivalent of hypersonic streamlining for earth to do
>meaningful skimming of atmosphere from a gas giant (where either the
>densities/pressures are much lower, or you're deep in the atmosphere and
>don't need to move at hypersonic speed.)
>
>Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:32:13 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

On 1/13/98 at 12:21 AM  Merck Burkhardt  <merrick@Rt66.com> said:

>> I fully intend to fight this if true.  No one is taking MY freedom
>> or putting a high price on it.  Far as I am concerned the FCC
>> is asking for trouble and I'll be happy to give them some.
>>
>> Who else feels this way?
>
>Um, not me. It's your _right_ to have the phone company pay for your
>access to the traveller mailing list?  Come again? Or is it just
>that you want the people that use the phone for a total of an hour
>or two a week to make up the slack for our tying up the phones lines
>for hours a day on the net?

As of right now, I pay $19.95/mo. for my access to the internet, including
my access to the TML  This does not include the line charge (another
(estimated) $20/mo.).  Both of which go to GTE who provides both the
telephone and internet service.  So that is not even the question.  The
question is (or should be) can the TSP change the terms of my agreement?  I
signed up for them to provide a line into my house for c. $20/mo. with an
understanding that I could use my line at any hour of the day, and for as
long as I wish.  My sister and I have both grown up and moved out, but, I
can remember when the line at home was constantly tied up from about 3:30
'til after 9:30 every weeknight and from 9:30 or 10 AM to as late as
midnight on weekends.  Did they offer to add a charge on our lines then?  Do
they offer to add a charge on homes now with a talkative teen now?  No.  So
why should I have to pay a per minute charge, just because it is my computer
actually doing the talking?

>The lines have been subsidized (for consumers) by business for
>years. All this was based on some average usage (typical call lasts
>for so many minutes, people make so many calls per day, etc.). Business
>customers pay about twice as much for their service to make rates
>cheaper for people in the sticks. It needn't be that way now, but it
>stuck....[continued below my comments]

And what do you think will happen if they allow the TSP's to charge per
minute for connections to an ISP?  My dear old granddad used to say,  "There
is nothing more permanent than a temporary tax."

>... Now you've got people tying up a line all the time and they expect
>to pay the same amount as my grandmother who makes maybe a call a day
>for 10 minutes?

Once again, that is not even the question.  I made an agreement with GTE
will they be allowed to renege on or not?

>They should charge us all _more_ and charge people who use the phone
>as a phone _less_ IMHO. I wouldn't use the net nearly as much if I
>was paying for it by the minute, but I don't consider the internet
>as a requirement for existence, either. Using the "then only the
>rich can use the net" argument is silly---by definition anybody with
>a grand or two to spend on a computer isn't missing any meals (and if
>they are they should've spent their couple grand on food instead of a
>computer).

How long did you save for yours?  I've been saving for years.  I pulled in
all the favors I was owed, and I still owe on the machine I am responding
on.  Your argument is specious.


>Just my Cr..07/min :-),
>
>Merck

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:33:41 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Suerrat and Genoee

Thank you to all the people who gave me info on these (too numerous to
mention). I am amazed at the response, just goes to show that amongst
all the flamefests the TML can be truely useful. All I was after was
some background information and I believe in doing my own research.

Once again, thank you

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm (general)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/abuse/abuse.htm (sexual abuse pages)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/traveller.htm (Traveller pages)

****************************************************************************
We're digging a hole in the road, you can't go up, you can't go down
you'll have to wait to drive around
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:50:21 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Asimov

Nathan said:

> IMO naming the Imperium's first emperor after Foundation's last emperor 
> is in homage to the late Grandmaster.

Frank and Marc made up the list of Emperors...I don't know if it was
intentional or not. In any case, Isaac Asimov influenced us all. How could he
not? He was one of the group that invented the future...

< Begin Old Fart's rambling story >

When I was 16, I resolved to read everything the Good Doctor(tm) had written.
Ten year later, he was still ahead, and gaining on me (he was writing them
faster than I could read them!), so I gave up. I still have not completely
caught up. 

< End Old Fart's rambling story >

Loren Wiseman
    GDW Emeritus

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:17:30 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Routine Maintainence

 I work as a ROtating Equipment Specialist/Reliability Engineer for a Mobil
Oil Refinery here on the East Coast. That said I've been trying (along with
work on the Trav CD project, my own campaign, part time graphics work for my
wife's business, classes in Reliability Engineering Principals, and Rotor
Dynamics, humm, oh yeah,  and Regular Work) to put together some models for
the Mean Time Between Failures and Decay over Time rules for Trav. (pet
project low priority). Any way, I have come across several pages of
information on MTBF in hours for modern day subsystems (mostly electronics)
that I believe will parallel those found on Star Ships.

At any rate the reason for writing this at this time is this particular
thread and the discussion it's generating fits in. What I'd like to ask the
list is: What type of subsystems do you see involved in a Jump Drive? If you
accept the theory that the J-drive is a massive geration unit I can use some
modified models on Gas Turbine Generators (which are currently FAR more
reliable and need FAR less maintenence today than any of the current game
stats! Of course your not placeing your life on the line everytime you use
them either!) that I already have running. If some other theory is to be
used to base the J-drive on, what type of modern equipment (ie, electronic,
turbine, compressor, reactor etc.) most fits the theory? Most other systems
have modern paralells that just need to be tweaked, but, of course the
J-drive is totally unknown! Any and all input is appriciated.

Don't hold your breath waiting for results. They WILL be posted, but I'm not
sure when and it's liabel to be a while down the road!

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: Mark Laney <cowhead@scott.net>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 14, 1998 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: Routine Maintainence


>
>
>>  Ian Whitchurch,say"
>
>> While trying to go to sleep, my brain turned over with a neat Traveller
>idea.
>>
>> Ships need Age/10 days of routine maintainence between jumps".
>
>In our game all ships have a reliability number. That is based on age ,
>grade of annual maintenance and number of misjumps. You can rush turnaround
>for jump but the reliability number of the ship affects the chance of
>misjumping and the results. Sort of similiar results with newer ships being
>the prefered ship for safety and for turnaround. the older the ship the
>harder it is to keep up and the more expensive it is . After a while you
>really would rather have a newer ship than the old clunker. It may be more
>expensive but you can sleep at better at night knowing that you will live
>to get to the next port.
>
>Ciao.
>Mark.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:33:31 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: FFS2 streamlining (was re: Missile Design Question)

 
> I was wondering if you could use the waste space or a portion of it for fuel
> storage?  Like wing tanks?
 
Yeah. Waste space is dumb just for the fuel reason. Waste in a ship
that needs 20%+ of its volume for fuel--and fuel that'll fit in any
shape container at that? Dumb.

Adding something that allos _inner_ walls to be tought enough so
that fuel can fill the spaces could be a cheap add on.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:13:49 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs

Stevie D (aka Bloo) wrote:
> 
> Has anyone developed any system for designing space stations, starports
<snip>
> I guess what I'm looking for is a Space Stations Architect's Manual more
> than anything, since what I usually need is floor plans and details for
> role-playing and the like.
>
             me too
 
> I'm thinking that if no one has done something like this, that I might.
> But I don't want to do the work if someone already has.  :-)
> 
> Bloo
             That would be very nice.

Jim Cooper

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:45:50 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: System numbering

I have been using a revised hex numbering system for my campaigns which
may be of interest.
It is based on the unknown space navigation table as shown in
Traveller Alien Module 4, Zhodani on page 48 and I know it was presented
in at least one other Traveller  publications in the past. It groups a 7
across hex of hexes into 6 equal triangular like areas to be used by the
referee to plot star positions as the pcs journey through space.
Taking the concept a little further, I reasoned that if the center hex
was labeled      0,0,0        I should be able to go as far as I wanted
in any direction and know how far it was from the point of origin. I
labeled the first number set as the sextant, the second number as the
band , and the third number as the deviation to starboard within the
sextant.
To demonstrate:
Start point is 0,0,0 meaning the center.
Band one is composed of 1,1,0 meaning sector 1 (Coreward), band 1, 0
deviation
                                         2,1,0 meaning sector 2
(Coreward Trailing), band 1, 0 deviation
                                                 3,1,0 meaning sector 3
(Rimward, Trailing), band 1, 0 deviation   
			     4,1,0 meaning sector 4 (Rimward), etc., etc.       			
                                         5,1,0 meaning sector 5 (Rimward
Spinward), etc., etc.
              and                     6,1,0 meaning sector 6 (Coreward
Spinward), etc., etc.
Band two is made up of  1,2,0 and 1,2,1   -   2,2,0 and 2,2,1   -  
3,2,0 and 3,2,1 
                                        4,2,0 and 4,2,1   -   5,2,0 and
5,2,1   -   6,2,0 and 6,2,1
Band three                       1,3,0 - 1,3,1 and 1,3,2
                                        2,3,0 - 2,3,1 and 2,3,2
			    etc. etc.
Now lets say we use Capital  (2118) Core as the center of our universe.
It becomes 0,0,0. Using the Atlas of the Imperium, Nimluin (2209) Core
becomes 1,9,1, Ispumer (2615) Core becomes 2,5,0, Gurishi (3022) Core
becomes 3,9,0, Skeen (2226) Core becomes 3,9,8 etc.
If a navigator was at Nimluin, Gurishi or Skeen, he would know that he
had travelled a total distance of 9 parsecs away from Core (5 in the
case of Ispumer) and had made a 1, 0 or 8 respectively parsec starboard
deviation from the norm.
Continuing out a long way, Terra (1827) Sol becomes 4,131,3, Regina
(1910) Spinward Marches becomes 5,130,128. Terra is 131 parsecs from
Capital at a 3 parsec starboard deviation ( (3/130x 60)+(3x60) or
181.385 degrees).  Regina is 130 parsecs from capital at a 128 parsec
starboard deviation (128/130x 60)+(4x60) or 299.076 degrees).
Notice that the deviation number can only total to 1 less than the band
number, the (((sextant number -1) times 60) plus the ((deviation number
divided by band number ) times 60)) will give the degree angle direction
from center, and  the deviation parsec is always at an angle of  the
((band number times 60) + 120) degrees.
I realize the numbering system is a little more cumbersome than our
present system but it appears to relay more usable information without
remembering the location of 560 sub-sectors within 35 sectors, or more
if you go outside *known* space. 
Using the s,bbb,ddd number combination we could expand our borders out
to 997,000+ parsecs in any of 6 directions. It could also be applied to
those referees using 3D space adding a fourth number set indicating
plus/minus for up/down direction.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:52:12 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Routine Maintainence

>Subject: Routine Maintainence
....
>Ships need Age/10 days of routine maintainence between jumps.

  What if the cunning little gits (or the procurement group for
the mega-corp) decide to replace the J-drive instead? I wouldn't
want to try and convince the players (or the TML) that the age
of the deck-plating was relevant :)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:56:07 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: orbital facilities

>Has anyone designed any small, cheap orbital facilities under FFS2 ?

  How about any junked out second hand ship, (if a starship, with its
J-drive removed)? If still mobile it can come out to meet you at the
100 diam. limit to facilitate cargo and passenger exchange.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:03:22 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Routine Maintainence

But the hull grid might be very important.. Perhaps that is what 
causes the decay.. Perhaps lamthium degrades after so many charges 
are run through it...

So you could replace the JD and the Hull :)


> >Ships need Age/10 days of routine maintainence between jumps.
> 
>   What if the cunning little gits (or the procurement group for
> the mega-corp) decide to replace the J-drive instead? I wouldn't
> want to try and convince the players (or the TML) that the age
> of the deck-plating was relevant :)
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    The only thing that hurts more than paying income tax
    is not having to pay income tax.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:24:52 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Routine Maintainence

Michael D. Peters wrote:

[snip]
>What type of subsystems do you see involved in a Jump Drive?  If you
>accept the theory that the J-drive is a massive geration unit I can use
some
>modified models on Gas Turbine Generators (which are currently FAR more
>reliable and need FAR less maintenence today than any of the current game
>stats! Of course your not placeing your life on the line everytime you use
>them either!) that I already have running. If some other theory is to be
>used to base the J-drive on, what type of modern equipment (ie, electronic,
>turbine, compressor, reactor etc.) most fits the theory? Most other systems
>have modern paralells that just need to be tweaked, but, of course the
>J-drive is totally unknown! Any and all input is appriciated.


I would use a high energy power transfer system, plus a high-energy antenna,
plus mechanical pumping components.  The drive would probably not be unlike
the GTG's you mentioned provided such systems generate large amounts of
electricity.  And you added the antenna (the jump grid).  Any part doesn't
work, no jump.

>Don't hold your breath waiting for results. They WILL be posted, but I'm
not
>sure when and it's liabel to be a while down the road!

I'm turning blue even as I type.
_______________

I must be Travelling,

Richard
_______________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:21:42 EST
From: GypsyComet <GypsyComet@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs

"Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> says:

>>I guess what I'm looking for is a Space Stations Architect's Manual more
>>than anything, since what I usually need is floor plans and details for
>>role-playing and the like.

>
>Let me know if you find anything like that.  If you want some ship deck
>plans, you might check out http://www.ifi.uio/~tommyg/Trav/Trav_ships.html
>or, you might try following the ring.  I think I saw more elsewhere on it,
>but I can't remember where.


 There are indeed deckplans in several places in the webring, and a number
off of it. Despite the age of the list (and the stale addresses therein)
the list of links on the Imperium Games Links page has several with good
deckplans on them. Hunt around.

  As far as stations are concerned, several options occur to me. If you
have any of the oooold traveller stuff from, say, Judges Guild or FASA,
take a look at "The Doom of the Singing Star" (from JG). The ship named
in the title is a ~30kton "liner" with decks for quarters and decks for
entertaining and decks for shopping.  The ship is oriented with
perpendicular decks (like the Lightning class and the XBoat Tender).
All you would need to do is create one new deck type that provides
docking booms, then ignore the need for drives. Stack decks to taste;
reasonably instant station.
  Similar can be done (and has been done, in Challenge) with the
deckplans of the Lightning class.
  Judges Guild also did an adventure called Drak'ne Station, which
is a large, tunneled-out asteroid.

  FASA did a very small station in Adventure Class Ships Vol 1. The
depicted plans cover a pair of administrative shuttle docks and central
traffic control, but happily ignore the rest...
  FASA also did a Hotel complex plan set. Like the Singing Star, this
can be tailored easily to become a stacked station.

  Borrowing from the starships again, take a look at the Classic/MT
version of the Lab Ship. Treat the plan scale as if it were a 6m or 12m
scale instead of the 1.5m scale it really is. Treat the original internal
walls as major bulkheads, do some typical office/retail/entertainment
spaces, and you have a serviceable torus station.

  For the big spheres in use in later Imperial space (the big fellow
in "The Flaming Eye"), just do the plans for the bits visited by the
PCs and don't worry about the overall picture. Since the central docking
wells of these stations can be 150m or more in diameter, you simply
don't need to worry about the little details for the whole station.

  If you _really_ need to, try to dig up a copy of the deckplans for the
original Enterprise (Star Trek: The Old Fogeys).  The plans for the saucer
are nearly circular and can be stacked with a great deal of disregard for
their original purpose...  The original Star Trek Technical Manual is also
worth a look, since it has plans for the big tug pods and for a typical
starbase of the period.
  Newer Trek yields Deep Space Nine, a monster of a flat torus station.
Quite big enough that walls rarely need to show a curve. Use fairly
ordinary building plans for internal detail. If we are patient, that
new company that is doing a Star Trek RPG might produce deckplans for the
thing...
  From the FASA attempt at Star Trek, find a copy of the Regula-1 station
supplement.

  If you want true monsters of stations, simply chop three long rectangles
out of a county map and make them into a single station of the classic
L5 type (see the anime Mobile Suit Gundam for some examples). You don't
need deckplans as such, because the station is mostly an outdoor
experience!

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:58:20 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

Kenji Schwarz wrote:
> 
> Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> >DAMNIT KENJI!!!   I normally read mail and Usenet at the same time,
> >flipping back and forth..  I was reading alt.conspiracy just before opening
> >this message.
> >
> >Now I have to clean the keyboard, my monitor, and the desk-bears, all of
> >which have acquired a fine coating of Salsa Victoria.
> 
> VICTORIA, eh?  A fine whitewash of arch-imperialist dead white token female
> obfuscation, indeed!
> 
> Whoops.  Wrong persona.  Sorry.
> 
> M. Kenji
I love it, you guys (or girls, or what have you). Keep it up.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:24:50 -0800
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Let's say books

Scott Ellsworth wrote:
 

> snip>  James Hogan's "Past
> Through Tomorrow" had a strong communistic streak, and had a more
> "realistic" feel for me.  But then, I am a sucker for any book with
> antimatter as a power source.
> 
> Hogan also creates a society without money or material wealth being related
> to status, but it has a more SF feel, as it is set on a colony in Alpha
> Centauri.  It seems to mesh better, partly because he is writing closer to
> today.  He has the advantage of high tech robots to do production, no
> outside influences to force conformance, and a very small first generation,
> such that a fad could become a culture.
> 
> Scott
> Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz

Thanks Scott, another book to add to the try and find list.

Jim Cooper

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:38:18 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Routine Maintainence

Someone said:

>   What if the cunning little gits (or the procurement group for
> the mega-corp) decide to replace the J-drive instead? I wouldn't
> want to try and convince the players (or the TML) that the age
> of the deck-plating was relevant :)

Tsykoduk replied:


But the hull grid might be very important.. Perhaps that is what
causes the decay.. Perhaps lamthium degrades after so many charges
are run through it...

So you could replace the JD and the Hull :)

Richard A. Flores countered:

The hull should be unaffected.  However, the grid could degrade with use.
Even so there are rules for adding a jump grid to an existing ship.  Costs
and time should be the same, just lay the new grid over the old one.  They
don't weigh much and they only cost, lets see... "Adding a hull grid to an
existing hull costs cr 150 per [cubic meter] of hull."  (FF&S p 12)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:40:07 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: More Trade Stations and Stuff

I had a group that (using CT rules) had a 400 ton trader with 2 10 
ton fighters.. and let me tell  you pirates ran screaming for the 
hills when theyt dropped the two fighters! (it was run during Hard 
Times.. Yeah.. I know CT ship rules.. but it was one of the coolest 
campains that I have run in a while).. They were not really traders, 
more like mercs that tryed to make a buck how ever they could. :)

(I also think that a Patrol Cruser would be overkill.. Heck, just 
strap a 5 or 10 Dtonm ftr to each ship..) <grin>





> >Keep it up!  Now, where we don't really agree, the group has also 
> >purchased a patrol cruiser for defense against pirates/corporate 
> >raiders.  Having the count's deep pockets has helped too.
> 
> Patrol cruiser ? Feh. Assuming you are fighting light ships, you want light
> weapons. Sit down with a copy of FFS2 and design a 10 dton fighter with a
> 600 MJ laser (well, at least 400 megajoules).
> 
> In game, pay a naval architect a lot of money to design a way of modifying
> one of your existing standard-model traders to carry a half-dozen or so of
> these.
> 
> Quietly get your count friend to investigate the possibility of getting one
> of the licences for nuke-det missiles that the Navy doesnt issue. Or at
> least a nice note from the Subsector Admiral in case you get busted. And
> equip your Q-ship with a nuke damper (50kkm range) in any case.
> 
> Then go pirate hunting. Seven laser-armed bogeys should overload his sand
> capabilities, allowing the hope of hitting two of his power plant, jump
> drive and maneauver drive.
> 
> The alternative is the Elisabeth class Frontier Trader - although it *is*
> probably well armed enough (2.1 gigajoule laser battery) to be classed as a
> Colonial Cruiser *grin*.
> 
> At risk of being self serving, I also like the White Lightning for
> anti-pirate work as well - it's the militarised version of the Moonshine 9G
> Famile Spofulam fast freighter. Basic 9G hull, plus a pair of PAWs, extra
> sand and a nuke damper. Armour is thin, but for 9 gees, what do you expect ?
> 
> If you want to be really sneaky, put out feelers to the pirates, and offer
> to fence goods for them. Build up a relationship. Be nice to them. Then rat
> on them to the Navy.
> It's hard to be vengeful when you've been nuked to glow.
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    Advertising (n): the science of arresting the human
    intelligence for long enough to get money from it.
           -- Stephen Leacock.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:44:41 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Phrasebooks

Loren Wiseman wrote:

[snip]
>This is not serious, but I have to mention a unique phrasebook I wish I still
>owned: Published in Britain in 1940, when there was danger of a German
>invasion, and distributed to bolster British morale:
>
>It included phrases like:
>
>Where is the landing beach?
>Why is the captain on fire?
>My leg/foot/arm/hand has been blown off. Would you direct me to the nearest
>field dressing station?
>Why have you thrown my friend in the canal?

Whaddaya mean, it's not serious????  These are going straight into the
notes for the totally non-existent, never-going-to-exist
Galanglic-Vilani-Sayat phrasebook.

Right along with "I will not buy these army boots, they are uncomfortable."


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 01:19:01 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs

GypsyComet wrote:

> "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> says:
>
> >>I guess what I'm looking for is a Space Stations Architect's Manual more
>
> >>than anything, since what I usually need is floor plans and details for
>
> >>role-playing and the like.
>
> >
> >Let me know if you find anything like that.  If you want some ship deck
>
> >plans, you might check out http://www.ifi.uio/~tommyg/Trav/Trav_ships.html
>
> >or, you might try following the ring.  I think I saw more elsewhere on it,
>
> >but I can't remember where.
>
>  There are indeed deckplans in several places in the webring, and a number
> off of it. Despite the age of the list (and the stale addresses therein)
> the list of links on the Imperium Games Links page has several with good
> deckplans on them. Hunt around.
>
>   As far as stations are concerned, several options occur to me.

Thanks for the suggestions, but like I said, I have no CT, MT, TNE stuff.  Used
to have CT but my collection was spotty, although I still remember the tactile
thrill when one of those odd-sized little black books with the cover that was
smooth but more than smooth.  No offense to Marc and the rest, but those sure
beat the hell out of the current perfectly bound, regular sized books whose
spins show wear and tear after only a couple of gentle perusings.  Having said
that, as a GM, I'd love each component to be in separate smaller books with
three hole punches.   oh, wait.  I've made this rant on the list before ;-)

Bloo

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2235
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 15 1998     Volume 1997 : Number 2236



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: communism
Re: ROM, The Long Night and Mileu 0
Re: Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs
Re: Dumarest Saga partial list
Microfoil - "New" Item for Traveller
Re: Routine Maintainence
RPSCS
RE: Trade Stations and Red crew/Blue crew
Re: Foundation
Re: Foundation and Traveller
Re: T4 release update? and Hello, the list
Re: Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs
Re: Dumarest Saga partial list
Re: Naval Architect's Manual
Re: Frank G. Pitt on BBS's
Re: Routine Maintainence
Re: No. 6
Food Projection!
Re: Prisoner - was Sayat conspiracy
Re: Dumarest Saga partial list
Re: T4 release update? and Hello, the list
Re: communism
Re: Microfoil - "New" Item for Traveller
Re: Prisoner - was Sayat conspiracy
Re: Foundation and Traveller
Re: T4 release update? and Hello, the list
Re: Foundation and Traveller
Re: Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:27:02 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: communism

>>The operative word is _made_, in the sense of _forced_. I think the
>>problem with communism is that it fundamentally against human
>>nature.
>
>In *that* case, may I suggest Hobbes' _Leviathan_. The problem with MOST =
>government (with the possible=20
>exception of dog-eat-dog capitalism) is that it is against human nature. =
>The whole point of government (according to Hobbes) is to coerce =
>behavior.

  One essayist (Craig Thomas - not that I'm recommending the book)
argues persuasively that Hobbes' purpose was to present the best
argument that a coercive gov't was simply necessary. He manages
to largely ignore the fact that the ECW made this a pretty good
case to be made at the time, but he's mainly concerned with the
current decade anyway.

  Interestingly, it's entirely possible (either through the Long Night
or the period 0-1100 3I) that many worlds will have gone through a
wide range of government and/or ideology types, not always at the
same time.

  Some possibility for humour in the backwoods can arise if the players
learn of a revolution in ideology, complain that the UWP hasn't been
updated, and then learn that the IISS considered no change to have
occurred. "Worse", they might be right :)

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 02:25:16 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: ROM, The Long Night and Mileu 0

>	I agree that the "technology" behind the story line is not as close to
>Traveller, but my intentions were to point out my view point of how the
>background stories are similar.  There may not be a 'real' connection
>between the two sets of books (i.e. Traveller and Foundation), but I
>certainly see several points that _could_ be used to help flesh out the
>traveller time line during a period that is vaugely recorded.

Whoops...  Not trying to argue that, just trying to hypothesize the Foundation
influence on Traveller :)

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 02:33:24 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs

>Basically, it seems to me that many such structures would be fairly
>identical.  For instance, Naval Bases would designs would probably vary
>only by size, i.e., all small ones would be identical, ditto for large
>ones.  But trading stations and starports might vary widely.

I don't think that even naval bases (orbital, or deep) would be all that
similar.  They may be built from the same modular components, but that's where
the similarities would end.  At least the way I imagine space stations (of all
sorts).  I would think that they would get pieced together over a long period,
sections would be removed and replaced when the cost of maintenance got too
high.

But that could be my own personal bias, because I rather like the idea of
things like this "growing" and "shrinking" based on use.  For example, a
station near Vegan territory might have been alot larger when the war with the
Solomani was in full swing.  After the conquest of Terra, the personnel and
hardware may have been moved further forward, the original base being reduced
considerably in the process as maintenance of all of the empty spaces would
become more expensive and time consuming.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:40:59 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Dumarest Saga partial list

In mail you write:

> It would seem that all of these titles postdate Traveller, unless they are
> 2nd or later editions.  Are they?

Probably. The "Dumarest" books I read were in old Ace Doubles. And they
quit making thoses back in the late 60s or early 70s. The individual
volumes were *much* later.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 02:59:50 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Microfoil - "New" Item for Traveller

Okay, I posted this message to the list a few days ago, but I never saw it
again.  I'm going to assume it died somewhere in transit.  If I'm sending this
twice and it annoys anyone, I apologize.

Microfoil:

Starship crews, surface teams, military and mercenary units, and those in the
civilian sector all have a need to join metals at one time or another.  Tanks
of fuel and oxygen require a good deal of volume and can be quite heavy.

Microfoil is the solution to this problem.  Microfoil is made up of a number
of extremely thin layers consisting of boron, carbon, silica or aluminum
combined with a transition metal.  The different components are selected
carefully to ensure a self-propagating, high temperature exothermic reaction
when exposed to a small amount of heat (such as the spark from a battery, a
match or a lighter, for example).  The temperature is high enough to melt a
filler to make a weld.  The thinner the layer, the less time the reaction
takes, and the less time oxygen has to mix with the metals, so the joints are
stronger then those welded with more traditional welding equipment.  The
layers of foil are generally between 20 atoms and 2,000 nanometers across.

The technology is introduced at TL9, but it is prohibitively expensive due to
the exacting specifications the foils must be made to.  At TL10, the
production process is refined, but still rather expensive.  By TL12, microfoil
can be made cheaply and easily.

Microfoil welding kits will vary in mass and price, due mostly to the
availability of the filler metals and the strength of the joints required.
Most members of a starship engineering crew, combat engineers and many
mechanics will carry thick pen-sized "sparkers" to perform on the spot welds
when required.  The foils themselves mass very little (the average packet
weighs about as much as a small notepad, and can contain several hundred
applications).

TL9     Cr2,000 per application.  (About 25-50% more for starship hull grade)
TL10    Cr500 per application.  (About 10-25% more for starship hull grade)
TL11    Cr25 per application.  (No extra charge for starship hull grade)

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:06:01 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Routine Maintainence

>> of the deck-plating was relevant :)
....
>But the hull grid might be very important.. Perhaps that is what 
>causes the decay.. Perhaps lamthium degrades after so many charges 
>are run through it...
>
>So you could replace the JD and the Hull :)

  First I typed "hull", then changed it to "deck plating". So
you buy a model with easily installed replacement grid modules.
It seems to be the techno-babble fix(^n) problem. I much prefer
to just nail them on yearly maintenance costs, say x%, where x
increases by one-tenth of its starting value each year, so that
a ten-year old ship costs double to maintain.

  If x starts at 1% (high, perhaps, YMMV), then a 40-year old
ship costs 5% of new cost to maintain each year (average). This
allows for the tramp to develop a tendency to suffer expensive
repairs on backwaters or when the players lack liquidity <snicker>.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:38:58 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@orca.bc.ca>
Subject: RPSCS

>>3. Has anyone been using the RPSCS (Role-playing ship combat system), or
>>done any other work on it? (latest version I've seen is 0.9)

I use it exclusively in my campaign. The big advantage of RPSCS is that
well suited for using during a game session. If is action-packed and fun
for the players because they take an active role in the combat. The only
complaint I have of it is its use of spaceship counters and a map board. I
find these to slow down the play for little benefit, so I just use an
abstract distance scale (boarding, close, medium, long, and extreme range)
in my campaign.

>I have never seen this, and am thus speaking out of ignorance, but I
>question if it's really needed. The starship combat system as it stands is
>fairly simple (though some may say simplistic), and really quite easy to
>use once you get the hang of it.

RPSCS is easy to use, too. I think it's needed because the T4 space combat
system is not well suited to using in an active campaign, IMHO. It doesn't
take the skills or actions of individuals into account, only provides an
active role for a single player for an entire ship, and is undramatic in
the sense that the crew is treated as an undifferentiated unit. It seems
designed more for a wargame than a role-playing game. Moreover, I simply
like a lot of the RPSC combat rules better; like ranges, sensors, missiles,
and battle damage.

Ideally, I would like to see the RP and basic starship combat systems
integrated; so I could run a combat for a large number of ships, including
a player ship. The players would role-play the combat while the other ships
could be handled in a more wargaming-oriented method.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:47:26 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: RE: Trade Stations and Red crew/Blue crew

Ahhh...but who is talking about someone taking _their_ stuff?!  My players 
are desperate to get out of the 200 ton Free Trader they are in, and into 
something a little larger (and more profitable).  They are currently taking 
high-risk jobs that pay (ahem) big.

A little cargo-jacking may just be what they would be interested in... 
 >8-)

douglas
_________________________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
Http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas

All I ask of a firearm is that it be reliable, accurate, and capable of 
dropping a god at 500 meters
_________________________________________________________________________


- ----------
From: 	Mark Laney[SMTP:cowhead@scott.net]
Sent: 	Wednesday, January 14, 1998 5:38 PM
To: 	traveller@mpgn.com
Subject: 	Re: Trade Stations and Red crew/Blue crew



- ----------
>
> What skills would be required to break into a warehouse? (Intrusion and
> Electronics?)  What skills would be needed to get the cargo off-world?
(Admin
> and Bribery/Forgery?)  What skills would be needed to access free-orbit
cargo?
> (Forgery/Bribery?)
>
Actually does security really matter. Anything that important to your
character you wouldn't leave  and anything else you get insurance to cover.
So if somebody takes your stuff you still get paid.

Ciao.
Mark.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:34:54 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: Foundation

In article <9801141633.AA22712@eggneb.astro.ucla.edu>,
bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh) wrote:
>
>>Lessee...those titles were "Crustacean," "Crustacean and Umpire," and "Second
>>Crustacean"
>
>>No, that was something else... never mind.
>Weren't those the titles for the SF expansion to Avalon Hill's famous
>marine life combat game, "Advanced Squid Lunger"? 

Which could be combined with "Pincer Leader" to allow for armoured combat,
shells and all ?

Frankie

    

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:23:09 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Foundation and Traveller

On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Nathan & Terri Mezel wrote:

> There have been a couple of instances where Foundation has crept into
  Traveller canon.  The Psionic Suppressions were a result of a
  psycohistorical project gone wrong, see ref's library data in the
  Imperial Encyclopedia under psycohistory.> 

And think of the Hivers, who improved their Psychohistory/Manipulation
skills. But that's the mention of Psychohistory, which itself now is a SF
element. Did Asimov introduce that notion as he did with his famous Robot
Laws?

> IMO naming the Imperium's first emperor after Foundation's last emperor
  is in homage to the late Grandmaster.
> 

I cannot remember. But i only read the first three Foundation Books, so I
could have missed it. In Germany just a ten-book complete special edition
has been published. I wish I could buy it right now!

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:48:03 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: T4 release update? and Hello, the list

In article <34BCB0BB.41C67EA6@uni-trier.de>,
"V.A.G" <grei5001@uni-trier.de> wrote:

>AFAIK, 4.1 will be out sometime before Christmas ;-)

Which Christmas ?

Frankie    

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:45:08 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs

In article <fe3c45b.34bd9ce8@aol.com>, GypsyComet <GypsyComet@aol.com> wrote:
>"Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> says:

>  FASA did a very small station in Adventure Class Ships Vol 1. The
>depicted plans cover a pair of administrative shuttle docks and central
>traffic control, but happily ignore the rest...
>  FASA also did a Hotel complex plan set. Like the Singing Star, this
>can be tailored easily to become a stacked station.
<snip>

Other examples -

 the asteroid complex in Belt Strike
 the station in "Murder on Arcturus Station"
 
Other things to modify
  FASA's King Richard, certainly enough accomodation &
  recreation decks.
  The maps from Star Frontiers, the "city" could be a
  "bubble-domed" station, or a section of the interior of a
  L5 habitat

   




- -- 
Frankie

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:50:33 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: Dumarest Saga partial list

In article <Pine.HPP.3.96.980114173621.1607A-100000@tx.ENGR.ORST.EDU>,
Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU> wrote:
>It would seem that all of these titles postdate Traveller, unless they are
>2nd or later editions.  Are they?

No. I read all of them in the mid seventies. My copy of "The Winds of Gath"
the first in the series is copyright 1967, and even "Jondelle", the tenth
in the series, is copyright 1973.

Of those listed in the post, Collision Course, Breakawway (Spacee 1999
TV series novelizations), The Coming Event, and The Terra Data
are definitely not Dumarest Saga books, and some that are not listd as
Dumarest Saga books, such as Veruchia (6th), Melome, Jondelle(10th),
& The Jester at Scar (5th) are Dumarest Saga books.

I'd say wherever you got the list from needs they're data updating.


- -- 
Frankie

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:36:53 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: Naval Architect's Manual

In article <199801142244.QAA177552@sp2n09.missouri.edu>,
Joseph Heck <ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu> wrote:
>> >Well, I saw Naval Architect's Manual in the store, flipped
>> >through it, and coveted it.  So I got my fiancee to get it
>> >for me for Christmas.
>> >
>> Richard Flores replied:
>> 
>> What is that?  Who put it out?  Where did you find it?  Do I need to go back
>> to The Game Shop?
>
>Great supplement! I really like the stuff inside, although I do
>sometimes wish the text matched the plans a little better. You notice
>there just "aren't" any small ships using these layouts? Who cares - you
>can always cram but I never had good layout ideas for the really, really
>big ships (luxury liners, etc).

My only complaint is that it should have been released either as a
piece of software (so you could assemble all those pieces into complete
deckplans and print them out ) or with all the layouts printed on
heavy cardstock like the pieces from "Space Crusade" so you could
assemble them manually on your table as required.

In fact, that's the thing I'll most likely do with it, photocopy the
whole book, cut out the deckplans and stick them on cardboard.

Frankie
    

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 18:56:02 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: Frank G. Pitt on BBS's

In article <002d01bd2135$cd60d320$6410fed0@default>, Richard A. Flores wrote: wrote:
>Frank G. Pitt wrote :
>
>>However, these days it's probably more appropriate to use Bink
>>or something similar to set up a PPP login, and just provide
>>a web server. Web pages are more fun than BBS menus.
>
>No argument here, but in the Tulsa local dialing area (the largest in USA),
>there are over 100 active public BBS's and many of them have some great
>stuff on them.
>
>Now how do I get Bink?

When I said Bink I was just talking about the Binkleyterm
mailer, which is a free and pretty standard Fido mailer.

I got mine from a local BBS :-)
I'd presume that it's probably available on a web page somewhere
too, try an AltaVista or Lycos search on it.

I currently run Bink as the front end,
It manages my usenet news and mail callouts to my
ISP via RASdial PPP, accepts incoming fax calls, and
allows callers access to my Maximus BBS.

I'm currently researching how to kick off Windows Dial-up server
from a command line utility, so that I can provide dial up access
to my web server. So far, looks like I might have to write
something.

If I can get it going though, Bink handles mutltiple BBS's with ease,
and I hope to be able to convince it that DUS & PPP is just another BBS.

Frankie

    

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:36:28 +1200
From: frankie@mundens.gen.nz (Frank G. Pitt)
Subject: Re: Routine Maintainence

In article <01bd216c$7f041340$LocalHost@letterworks>,
"Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com> wrote:
>At any rate the reason for writing this at this time is this particular
>thread and the discussion it's generating fits in. What I'd like to ask the
>list is: What type of subsystems do you see involved in a Jump Drive? If you
>accept the theory that the J-drive is a massive geration unit I can use some
>modified models on Gas Turbine Generators (which are currently FAR more
>reliable and need FAR less maintenence today than any of the current game
>stats! Of course your not placeing your life on the line everytime you use
>them either!) that I already have running. If some other theory is to be
>used to base the J-drive on, what type of modern equipment (ie, electronic,
>turbine, compressor, reactor etc.) most fits the theory? Most other systems
>have modern paralells that just need to be tweaked, but, of course the
>J-drive is totally unknown! Any and all input is appriciated.

I would suggest that you base your maneuver drive and power plant
MTBF charts on those for modern nuclear submarines, and base your
maintenance practices on those also,

Jump drives, however, are different. They should be based on
the MTBF and maintenance practices of a modern particle accelerator or
fusion power plant like Sandia Labs.

My take is that they really aren't the sort of technology that the FAA
would normally allow in commercial use, but they are just too damn
useful to regulate out of existence.


Frankie

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:32:54 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: No. 6

On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Bruce E J Lewis wrote:

> 	Anyway, if a whole tv series can be made around the incorrectly assumed
> inflexion of a single statement, couldn't something similar be done in a
> Traveller scenario? Often two words - or names - sound similar but mean
> different things. There are two systems in the Spinward Marches that have
> similar sounding names, and actually border each other. They are Dinom and
> Dinomn. What fun one could have spending six months sending the characters
> to the wrong place!
> 
Hmmm, that reminds me that i want to send one of my characters to the
"New Distance Private Club" if he seeks streetwise information.
I wonder if he gets the joke before entering ... would you?

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:20:08 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Food Projection!

What is it about this list that makes otherwise sane individuals project
foodstuffs and beverages through their nasal cavities - an orifice
generally considered inappropriate to the removal of dietary waste from the
body - onto expensive computer equipment?

Is it some kind of plot to make us all bust our keybaords and stop typing?
Maybe by the voice-recognition software authors (although I fail to see how
a computer could be programmed to adequately interpret the sound
('squoooooshpt-t-t-t') made as carbonated beverages leave aforesaid
orifice.....)


MJD.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 01:48:35 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Prisoner - was Sayat conspiracy

>        Amazing how the lack of a single comma kept much of the nation guessing
> for months each time this was shown. Thus...
> 
>         "Who is number one?"
> 
>         "You are, number 6."
> 
>         ;-)
> 
> 


You've got to be kidding me?  All these years and the answer was under
my nose?!!!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 02:23:45 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Dumarest Saga partial list

I never thought of that.  Of course they post-date it.  therefore
Traveller must have been the influence for those books, not the other
way around.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:02:33 +0100
From: "V.A.G" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: T4 release update? and Hello, the list

Stevie D (aka Bloo) wrote:
> 
> V.A.G wrote:
> 
> > Stevie D (aka Bloo) wrote:
> > >
> > > When last I left the list, I was really enjoying playtesting with a beta
> > > of T4 character generation rewrites.  Have there been any changes?  Is
> > > there a newer version available.
> 
> > AFAIK, 4.1 will be out sometime before Christmas ;-)
> 
> Great, just when I know I'll have to take a long hiatus from playing after
> taking the bar and becoming a lawyer.  :-(
I meant last Christmas ;-)
But it was pushed back again after that, so no one REALLY knows

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 06:11:02 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: communism

Steve Hudson said:
>
>  Some possibility for humour in the backwoods can arise if the players
>learn of a revolution in ideology, complain that the UWP hasn't been
>updated, and then learn that the IISS considered no change to have
>occurred. "Worse", they might be right :)

A good modern (and ancient) example of this would be the Chinese.  They have
an ancient saying, "You may conquer us today, but, tomorrow your children
will be Chinese."  This was usually said to the Japanese that conquered that
nation several times.  As you see history unfolding, it seems that the
communism that now rules that ancient land is coming more and more to
resemble what China has always had in they way of government.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 06:18:35 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Microfoil - "New" Item for Traveller

Semo said:


>Okay, I posted this message to the list a few days ago, but I never saw it
>again.  I'm going to assume it died somewhere in transit.  If I'm sending
this
>twice and it annoys anyone, I apologize.
>
>Microfoil:

[descriptive narrative snipped]

I read it.  I liked it.  I will probably use it.
Info snipped seemed to cover everything.
Except...  Thanks Semo.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:22:15 +0000
From: Bruce E J Lewis <bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Prisoner - was Sayat conspiracy

At 01:48 15/01/98 -0800, J-Man wrote:
>>         "Who is number one?"
>>         "You are, number 6."
>> 
>You've got to be kidding me?  All these years and the answer was under
>my nose?!!!
>
	Yup, most of ours too I should think.

	Maybe the answer to everything else is under our noses too, like,
logically, the universe should not exist. So if we proved it so, would it
cease to have actually ever have done so?


	See ya...

Bruce E J Lewis - mailto:bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk
Telephone - 0956-506527

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:15:08 +0100
From: "V.A.G" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Foundation and Traveller

Lars Adler wrote:

> I cannot remember. But i only read the first three Foundation Books, so I
> could have missed it. In Germany just a ten-book complete special edition
> has been published. I wish I could buy it right now!
>
Don t! Read the original versions! Trust me on this!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:15:26 +0100
From: "V.A.G" <grei5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: T4 release update? and Hello, the list

Frank G. Pitt wrote:
> 
> In article <34BCB0BB.41C67EA6@uni-trier.de>,
> "V.A.G" <grei5001@uni-trier.de> wrote:
> 
> >AFAIK, 4.1 will be out sometime before Christmas ;-)
> 
> Which Christmas ?
Last ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 06:29:41 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Foundation and Traveller

Lars Adler said:


>On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Nathan & Terri Mezel wrote:
>
>> There have been a couple of instances where Foundation has crept into
>  Traveller canon.  The Psionic Suppressions were a result of a
>  psycohistorical project gone wrong, see ref's library data in the
>  Imperial Encyclopedia under psycohistory.
>>
>And think of the Hivers, who improved their Psychohistory/Manipulation
>skills. But that's the mention of Psychohistory, which itself now is a SF
>element. Did Asimov introduce that notion as he did with his famous Robot
>Laws?
>
>> IMO naming the Imperium's first emperor after Foundation's last emperor
>  is in homage to the late Grandmaster.
>>
>I cannot remember. But i only read the first three Foundation Books, so I
>could have missed it. In Germany just a ten-book complete special edition
>has been published. I wish I could buy it right now!

I know of no works predating the works of the good doctor that refer to such
a system of mathematics/manipulation.  He didn't introduce robots, but the
3(4) laws of robotics are all his.  He said he didn't care who used them as
long as they didn't quote them.
_______________

I must be Travelling,

Richard
_______________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 06:43:08 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs

"Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> says:

Frank G. Pitt <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> said:


>GypsyComet <GypsyComet@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>  FASA did a very small station in Adventure Class Ships Vol 1. The
>>depicted plans cover a pair of administrative shuttle docks and central
>>traffic control, but happily ignore the rest...
>>  FASA also did a Hotel complex plan set. Like the Singing Star, this
>>can be tailored easily to become a stacked station.
><snip>
>
>Other examples -
>
> the asteroid complex in Belt Strike
> the station in "Murder on Arcturus Station"
>
>Other things to modify
>  FASA's King Richard, certainly enough accomodation &
>  recreation decks.
>  The maps from Star Frontiers, the "city" could be a
>  "bubble-domed" station, or a section of the interior of a
>  L5 habitat

Anyone ever hear of or use "Evening Star"?  It was an asteroidal source of
monopoles (that's what the history said), converted to a Luxury Resort.  I
used to base a campaign out of that thing.  I still have the book around
somewhere.

The point is if you want to go for something like that, you could get high
altitude survey photos of just about any town or city.  "Deck Plans" would
be any standard housing, shopping, etc. floor plans you can get your hands
on.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2236
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 15 1998     Volume 1997 : Number 2237



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Trade Stations and Red crew/Blue crew
Hamster test
Re: Routine Maintainence
Re: Prisoner - was Sayat conspiracy
Re: Prisoner - was Sayat conspiracy
Re: FFS2 streamlining (was re: Missile Design Question)
Re: Let's say books
Re: Routine Maintainence
Re: Public Apology OFF TOPIC
Re: Routine Maintainence
ASL(Undersea version)
Re: Communism (fwd)
Re: FFS2 streamlining (was re: Missile Design Question)
Re: Prisoner - was Sayat conspiracy
Re: Public Apology
Re:  FFS2 streamlining
Re: Public Apology
Re: Public Apology
Re: Starport offices
re: After the Assasination

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:50:51 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Trade Stations and Red crew/Blue crew

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> In mail you write:
>>
>> > Warehousing the cargo...
>> >
>> > Hmmm...
>> >
>> > The building that houses the cargo containers would be pretty standard.
>> > The incoming cargo could be housed in the temporary facilities provided 
> by
>> > the starport (part of the cr100 you pay) for a week before you would have
>> > to move 'em (hopefully you have sold them by then).  For the goods being
>> > amassed by the on-planet factor, it would be cheaper to use warehousing
>> > off-port (since it's from the planet anyway, extra-territoriality should
>> > not be an issue, for transient goods, a bonded warehouse may be
>> > necessary), but if security is an issue then a warehouse in the downport,
>> > or even the highport may be preferred.
>>
>> Actually, for cargo that can tolerate it (or whose containers can), the
>> warehouse may be nothing more than an orbital slot near the station,
>> with a beacon, and a cheap "foil" sunshade.
>>
>> Security is actually pretty good. Because traffic control will have a
>> record of everything that even came *close* to one of these "parking
>> slots".
>>
>
> First, let me say that I am *not* trying to ressurect the whole cargo loading
> debate that flamed so wonderfully during the infamous piracy wars...
>
> I can see where it would work for some cargos, especially ones that need
> long-term storage and can take hard vacuum.  (what to do with that cargo you 
> got stuck with, and there is no market?)
>
> I'm not sure that putting it in orbit around the mainworld would work
> tho'.  Close orbits are expensive (that's what we pay cr 100 for the
> first week, then cr 100 per day for...), and the further out you
> place it, the worse the security would be.

Don't forget just how much room there is. even close in. And "close"
can be "a couple hundred km".

> Which brings up another point...are insystem craft (shuttles, etc)
> required to have transponders the same as jump ships?

Yep. For the same reason all commercial aircraft have them (and private
aircraft would too if the FAA had its way). It's pretty much a
requirement for traffic control.

> What skills would be required to break into a warehouse? (Intrusion
> and Electronics?)  What skills would be needed to get the cargo
> off-world? (Admin and Bribery/Forgery?)  What skills would be needed
> to access free-orbit cargo?  (Forgery/Bribery?)

ECM skill and gear, for one. And it'd cost very little to add a radio
"screamer" proximity alarm to the setup. Fail to send the right
"combination" and the alarm starts broadcasting to everybody that
somebody is trying to rip you off.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:07:00 -0500
From: Bill Prankard <BPRANKARD@theiia.org>
Subject: Hamster test

- --Boundary_(ID_ZniJlZqTREHv618xVQD+5g)
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN


This is a test to see if the stupid "winmail.dat" genetic hamster   
transformation code is suppressed.
I checked the properties of this address in my adress book, the rich text   
checkbox is off.  I thought this was off in the last comment about sayat   
phrasebooks.

I realy hate my office's decision to use this Microsloth program.

Here it goes...
- --Boundary_(ID_ZniJlZqTREHv618xVQD+5g)
Content-type: APPLICATION/X-TNEF; NAME=WINMAIL.DAT
Content-transfer-encoding: BASE64
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- --Boundary_(ID_ZniJlZqTREHv618xVQD+5g)--

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:44:21 -0400
From: "Alan M. Nuss" <amnuss@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Routine Maintainence

X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

My version of routien maintainence is it must be done once every 30
days.  It takes only
1 day and costs 0.01% of the cost of the ship.  (filters, gaskets, light
bulbs, ect.)

Alan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 01:20:53 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Prisoner - was Sayat conspiracy

In mail you write:

> At 14:54 13/01/98 -0800, J-Man wrote:
>>"The Prisoner", starring Patrick Macgoohan (sp), as #6.
>>
>>Who is #1?  :)
>>
>         And the answer was there in the opening titles all along!!!

It all hinges on the subtle difference between "You are, #6." and "You
are #6." :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 01:22:22 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Prisoner - was Sayat conspiracy

In mail you write:

> At 01:18 14/01/98 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>> "The Prisoner", starring Patrick Macgoohan (sp), as #6.
>>>
>>> Who is #1?  :)
>>
>>"You are #6."
>>
>      Amazing how the lack of a single comma kept much of the nation guessing
> for months each time this was shown. Thus...
>
>         "Who is number one?"
>
>         "You are, number 6."
>
>         ;-)

True Story. A friend was vacationing in Wales, and literally *stumbled*
across Port Merion (where the Village" scenes were shot) while out
hiking. Not knowing that it was a *real* place, rather than a set, he
almost had heart failure. He noted that he *would* have had one if
there'd been any partially inflated weather balloons about!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 01:32:14 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: FFS2 streamlining (was re: Missile Design Question)

In mail you write:

> I was the person who asked about this, and I still disagree - it's
> not clear to me that the waste space numbers oare reasonable or that
> you need the equivalent of hypersonic streamlining for earth to do
> meaningful skimming of atmosphere from a gas giant (where either the
> densities/pressures are much lower, or you're deep in the atmosphere
> and don't need to move at hypersonic speed.)

Hypersonic streamlining is hypersonic streamlining, at least for a
*wide* range of fluid densities (from near vacuum to something over 1
one atmosphere). 

All that changing the density (which follows the pressure) does is
change the speed of sound, and thus the speed at which you are
"hypersonic". But it's virtually certain that you'd have to be
travelling at hypersonic speeds to skim from a gas giant. Going down
where low speeds will do requires a *lot* of delta-v, or good CG. *And*
it exposes you to storms and turbulence that make hurricanes look tame.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 01:50:54 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Let's say books

In mail you write:

> Scott Ellsworth wrote:
>  
>
>> snip>  James Hogan's "Past
>> Through Tomorrow" had a strong communistic streak, and had a more
>> "realistic" feel for me.  But then, I am a sucker for any book with
>> antimatter as a power source.
>> 
>> Hogan also creates a society without money or material wealth being related
>> to status, but it has a more SF feel, as it is set on a colony in Alpha
>> Centauri.  It seems to mesh better, partly because he is writing closer to
>> today.  He has the advantage of high tech robots to do production, no
>> outside influences to force conformance, and a very small first generation,
>> such that a fad could become a culture.
>> 
>> Scott
>> Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
> Thanks Scott, another book to add to the try and find list.

The title has "Tommorrow" in it, or perhaps "Tomorrows", but it *isn't*
"Past Through Tomorrow". That was an old Heinlein collection.

A quick check of the only two Hogan books I have that *aren't* in
storage gives "The Two Faces of Tomorrow" as the likely title.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:41:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Routine Maintainence

In mail you write:

>>Subject: Routine Maintainence
> ...
>>Ships need Age/10 days of routine maintainence between jumps.
>
>   What if the cunning little gits (or the procurement group for
> the mega-corp) decide to replace the J-drive instead? I wouldn't
> want to try and convince the players (or the TML) that the age
> of the deck-plating was relevant :)

Swapping out the J-Drive (including required tests to make sure the
"new" unit is hooked up ok, and properly integrated with the ships's
systems" probably takes *at least* a week. Maybe two.

You *could* design ships where the J-Drive was in a sort of "pod" that
bolts onto the ship, and has pre-placed connectors. But that makes the
design more expensive. And you need to have the right sort of "pod"
available. I'd be willing to bet thast designing the drive that way
makes it *harder* to do the "maintenance" on once you get it removed
from the ship. So you'd be paying for *increased* maintenance costs,
*plus* the cost of labor and equipment for swapping the drive pod
*plus* the capital costs of keeping drive pods around so that they'll
be available for swapping.

In short, you could save time that way, but it'd $cost$. As usual in
the real world, saving time takes money. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:33:22 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Public Apology OFF TOPIC

In mail you write:

> Oh - sorry I'm being Eurocentric here - for your information we get charged
> per minute here in the UK and across the rest of Europe. (And we get silly
> amounts of tax on fuel too but that's another story...)

So do some areas in the US. Other areas (such as the state I live in)
*forbid* "measured local service" as anything except an *option*.

> On the discussion about TSP charges - we used to get a magazine called
> 'Telephony' from the US in work. I do recall several pieces on such a
> proposal - the logic behind the argument was that the levels  of
> infrastructure installed by the RBOCs were based on around calculations
> that assumed an average call length of around 5 min, so even a few users on
> for 20+ minutes can start to skew the calculations.  As security of supply
> is a big issue, the RBOCs are looking for a way to pay for necessary switch
> upgrades. Or at least, that's how they view the point. I suggest that you
> try looking out some backcopies of the magazine.

I've also heard the quite reasonable *counter* argument that the model
being used was *known* to no longer match actual usage as early as the
mid 70s. but they kept on using it.

comp.dcom.telecom tends to cover this sort of thing from time to time.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:50:01 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Routine Maintainence

In mail you write:

> At any rate the reason for writing this at this time is this particular
> thread and the discussion it's generating fits in. What I'd like to ask the
> list is: What type of subsystems do you see involved in a Jump Drive? If you
> accept the theory that the J-drive is a massive geration unit I can use some
> modified models on Gas Turbine Generators (which are currently FAR more
> reliable and need FAR less maintenence today than any of the current game
> stats! Of course your not placeing your life on the line everytime you use
> them either!) that I already have running. If some other theory is to be
> used to base the J-drive on, what type of modern equipment (ie, electronic,
> turbine, compressor, reactor etc.) most fits the theory? Most other systems
> have modern paralells that just need to be tweaked, but, of course the
> J-drive is totally unknown! Any and all input is appriciated.

Ok, right off the top of my head, *regardless* of what theory you use,
we know that a J-Drive has to handle a given amount of LH2 in a
specific (fairly short) period of time. So if nothing else, one
component *has* to be a high speed, high volume pump for *very*
cryogenic liquids. That's going to require a moderate amount of
maintenance.

It may also be one of the system limits, in that you have to start by
runnning "cool" hydrogen gas thru it and increase the speed and
decrease the temp according to a definite "schedule". Ditto for
stopping it at the end and warming it back to ambient temp.

And there's also little argumebt that the J-drive *is* handling a large
amount of energy. So at least part of the drive is going to be
equivalent to a high voltage/high current electrical switching unit.

The part equivalent to the gas turbine is likely to be more like an MHD
generator, which is actually *less* likely to need maintenance. Other
than throat erosion, there's very little that *can* happen to an MHD
unit. 

Somewhere in there, there's a unit that fuses a greater or lesser
portion of the hydrogen. What portion depends on which theory you use.
Buit in any case, we need a high flow rate unit to take LH2 and feed it
into the "reactor" without disrupting the plasma. And a unit to extract
the "waste products" from the plasma. I assume that these would both be
a sort of counter current heat exchanger where the "exhaust" (possibly
*after* the MHD generator) is used to preheat the incoming LH2, and the
LH2 cools the exhaust.

(Attempt at block diagram)

+----------+
| LH2 pump |
+-----+----+
      |           +---------+
      v        +->+ reactor |
+-----+-----+  |  +----+----+
|    heat   +->+       |
|           |          v
| exchanger +<-+  +----+------+     +------+
+-----+-----+  |  |    MHD    |     | jump |
      |        +<-+           +---->+      |
      v           | generator |     | grid |
+-----+-----+     +-----------+     +------+
|  exhaust  |
+-----------+

This leaves out all the flow monitors and other control & monitoring
circuitry. But all the connections shown (except the generator->grid
link) are going to be some pretty major "plumbing". The generator->grid
link is going to be heavy duty *cabling*.

All the other wiring and plumbing is going to be the usual festoons of
wires.

For the "hydogen supports the jump bubble/opens the "gateway" school,
the heat exchanger/exaust setup is the most important. For the "it all
goes into 'charging' the drive" school, the reactor/generator is the
most important. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:48:38 -0500
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: ASL(Undersea version)

> Which could be combined with "Pincer Leader" to allow for armoured combat,
> shells and all ?

What about the great expansion "Pincer Blintz", wherein they stop for lunch
at a Jewish deli! Oh, what mayhem ensues from there I can tell you!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:42:01 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Communism (fwd)

Not!

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:30:37 -0600 (CST)
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: Re: FFS2 streamlining (was re: Missile Design Question)

On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Richard A. Flores wrote:
> I was wondering if you could use the waste space or a portion of it for fuel
> storage?  Like wing tanks?

When you are using waste space to represent streamlining, the space isn't
really there.  It's a way to represent the increased hull area for the
same volume that you get when you start streamlining.  There are two ways
to go, multiply surface area by some factor or decrease usable volume by
some factor.

Bolie IV


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:59:04 +0000
From: Bruce E J Lewis <bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Prisoner - was Sayat conspiracy

At 01:22 15/01/98 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>True Story. A friend was vacationing in Wales, and literally *stumbled*
>across Port Merion (where the Village" scenes were shot) while out
>hiking. Not knowing that it was a *real* place, rather than a set, he
>almost had heart failure. He noted that he *would* have had one if
>there'd been any partially inflated weather balloons about!

	I visited there a few years ago, and it is a wonderful place. It's very
much smaller though than it appears in The Prisoner. Across the road from
the complex, is the Festiniog Railway, where they shot Ivor the Engine, if
anyone remembers that.


	See ya...

Bruce E J Lewis - mailto:bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk
Telephone - 0956-506527

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 98 23:37:26 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Public Apology

On 01/14/98 at 12:31 PM,  "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> said:

>>Besides...it's all the Yankees' fault. If they'd signed Castro as a second
>>baseman, none of this would have happened. ;-)

>You revisonist!  Castro was a pitcher (threw right, batted left) and got a
>farm team try out from the Washington Senators.

Yeah, but if the Yankees had signed Castro as a second baseman, none of
this *would* have happened!  Or maybe he's using Yankee in a more generic
form...;-D

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:55:05 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re:  FFS2 streamlining

>Yeah. Waste space is dumb just for the fuel reason. Waste in a ship
>that needs 20%+ of its volume for fuel--and fuel that'll fit in any
>shape container at that? Dumb.

>Adding something that allos _inner_ walls to be tought enough so
>that fuel can fill the spaces could be a cheap add on.

This isn't 100% true at low tech levels; it's hard to make efficient
cryogenic fuel tanks in arbitrary complicated shapes. For example,
the X-33 (which probably qualifies as Hypersonic AF streamlining) will
have a fair amount of interior waste space. Of course, it's 
weight-driven much than a Traveller ship is...

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:33:53 -0600 (CST)
From: Bolie Williams IV <bolie@io.com>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

Um... I'm trying to find a Traveller connection here...  please take
this to private email.

Bolie IV

On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Richard A. Flores wrote:

> On 1/13/98 at 12:21 AM  Merck Burkhardt  <merrick@Rt66.com> said:
> 
> >> I fully intend to fight this if true.  No one is taking MY freedom
> >> or putting a high price on it.  Far as I am concerned the FCC
> >> is asking for trouble and I'll be happy to give them some.
> >>
> >> Who else feels this way?
> >
> >Um, not me. It's your _right_ to have the phone company pay for your
> >access to the traveller mailing list?  Come again? Or is it just
> >that you want the people that use the phone for a total of an hour
> >or two a week to make up the slack for our tying up the phones lines
> >for hours a day on the net?
> 
> As of right now, I pay $19.95/mo. for my access to the internet, including
> my access to the TML  This does not include the line charge (another
> (estimated) $20/mo.).  Both of which go to GTE who provides both the
> telephone and internet service.  So that is not even the question.  The
> question is (or should be) can the TSP change the terms of my agreement?  I
> signed up for them to provide a line into my house for c. $20/mo. with an
> understanding that I could use my line at any hour of the day, and for as
> long as I wish.  My sister and I have both grown up and moved out, but, I
> can remember when the line at home was constantly tied up from about 3:30
> 'til after 9:30 every weeknight and from 9:30 or 10 AM to as late as
> midnight on weekends.  Did they offer to add a charge on our lines then?  Do
> they offer to add a charge on homes now with a talkative teen now?  No.  So
> why should I have to pay a per minute charge, just because it is my computer
> actually doing the talking?
> 
> >The lines have been subsidized (for consumers) by business for
> >years. All this was based on some average usage (typical call lasts
> >for so many minutes, people make so many calls per day, etc.). Business
> >customers pay about twice as much for their service to make rates
> >cheaper for people in the sticks. It needn't be that way now, but it
> >stuck....[continued below my comments]
> 
> And what do you think will happen if they allow the TSP's to charge per
> minute for connections to an ISP?  My dear old granddad used to say,  "There
> is nothing more permanent than a temporary tax."
> 
> >... Now you've got people tying up a line all the time and they expect
> >to pay the same amount as my grandmother who makes maybe a call a day
> >for 10 minutes?
> 
> Once again, that is not even the question.  I made an agreement with GTE
> will they be allowed to renege on or not?
> 
> >They should charge us all _more_ and charge people who use the phone
> >as a phone _less_ IMHO. I wouldn't use the net nearly as much if I
> >was paying for it by the minute, but I don't consider the internet
> >as a requirement for existence, either. Using the "then only the
> >rich can use the net" argument is silly---by definition anybody with
> >a grand or two to spend on a computer isn't missing any meals (and if
> >they are they should've spent their couple grand on food instead of a
> >computer).
> 
> How long did you save for yours?  I've been saving for years.  I pulled in
> all the favors I was owed, and I still owe on the machine I am responding
> on.  Your argument is specious.
> 
> 
> >Just my Cr..07/min :-),
> >
> >Merck
> 
> 
> 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:14:16 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Public Apology

Richard A. Flores wrote:
> 
> On 1/13/98 at 12:21 AM  Merck Burkhardt  <merrick@Rt66.com> said:
> 
> >> I fully intend to fight this if true.  No one is taking MY freedom
> >> or putting a high price on it.  Far as I am concerned the FCC
> >> is asking for trouble and I'll be happy to give them some.
> >>
> >> Who else feels this way?
> >
> >Um, not me. It's your _right_ to have the phone company pay for your
> >access to the traveller mailing list?  Come again? Or is it just
> >that you want the people that use the phone for a total of an hour
> >or two a week to make up the slack for our tying up the phones lines
> >for hours a day on the net?
> 
> As of right now, I pay $19.95/mo. for my access to the internet, including
> my access to the TML  This does not include the line charge (another
> (estimated) $20/mo.).  Both of which go to GTE who provides both the
> telephone and internet service.  So that is not even the question.  The
> question is (or should be) can the TSP change the terms of my agreement?  I
> signed up for them to provide a line into my house for c. $20/mo. with an
> understanding that I could use my line at any hour of the day, and for as
> long as I wish.  My sister and I have both grown up and moved out, but, I
> can remember when the line at home was constantly tied up from about 3:30
> 'til after 9:30 every weeknight and from 9:30 or 10 AM to as late as
> midnight on weekends.  Did they offer to add a charge on our lines then?  Do
> they offer to add a charge on homes now with a talkative teen now?  No.  So
> why should I have to pay a per minute charge, just because it is my computer
> actually doing the talking?

Although I agree with you in principle, I'm afraid that line of
reasoning is erroneous.

You see, when you connect with the internet, you are not making *just* a
local call. You are using all kinds of long distance exchanges and
hopping around the world. If your talkative teen calls up someone in
Hong Kong, do you expect per minute charges? Of course.

Now, there's all kinds of other arguments against per minute charges for
the internet, which have already been discussed. Cable companies, and
even digital satellite dish companies, are or will be offering internet
services, so I'm quite confident that in North America internet service
will tend to be charged by a flat rate.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:55:23 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Starport offices

Jo Grant wrote:

>My players decided they wanted to play "Han and Chewie wannabies". So
>they are skut crew on Tramp Freighter. They spend most of their time
>locked into their area of the ship by the senior (permanent) crew. The ship
>isn't a Pirate, rather it services pirates. A smuggler, or fencer, etc,
>etc.

Don't you mean Rimrunner.....?

You don't have a convenient empty hex with three dark masses in it, used to
cut across the deep and hold secret rendezvous with renegade fleet elements
who refused to stand down after the FFW, do you?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:04:37 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: After the Assasination

 Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> re:

>One thing you may want to keep in mind: By the time the Solomani takes
>Terra THEY are the invaders. In 1105 Terra is about to become a fully
>fledged member of the Imperium, all relationships normal. This should
>have been accomplished by 1116. Now, do you imagine that the Solomani
>leadership is going to 'liberate' Terra and turn over the Confederation
>to the Mother World? Not on your life. They're going to start hunting
>down "collaborators" and generally behave like invaders throughout time
>and space. Except for a tiny minority of fanatics, everybody on Terra
>is going to long for the Good Old Days of the Imperium. If the Imperium
>gets its act together quickly enough, they may be able to perforn a
>genuine liberation of Earth, backed by a massive local support...

Good point - to succeed they'd need to handle it with kid gloves and be
nice to the population, something that Solsec may find a little hard to
do...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2237
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 15 1998     Volume 1997 : Number 2238



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Questions ? ? ?
IG plans for 1998?
Re: Hamster Test
Re: Trade Stations and Red crew/Blue crew
Re: Hamster test
Re: No. 6
Re: Asimov
Re: Questions ? ? ?
Re: No. 6
Re: Foundation
Re: FFS2 streamlining (was re: Missile Design Question)
Potential House Rule: Starship Reliability Number
Re: Trade Stations and Red crew/Blue crew
Re: Microfoil - "New" Item for Traveller
The Family Grav-Car: Infrasystem Requirements
Re: No. 6
Martial Arts
Re: Routine Maintainence
Re: Religion Careers
Re: The Family Grav-Car: Infrasystem Requirements
Re: Potential House Rule: Starship Reliability Number

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:09:42 -0500 (CDT)
From: Bill Skerbitz <skerbiwj@CAA.MRS.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Questions ? ? ?

Hi.  I'm both new to the list and recently getting back into traveller.  
the last time I played was just as MegaTraveller was coming out.  I have 
a few questions to ask of anyone who really knows the down and out of 
what's ogne on in the traveller universe, but I apologize for those of 
you who have seen questions such as this a hundred times on this 
list...feel free to respond in private if you wish to save the rest of 
the list from boredom...

First of all, could I get a timeline on the various games?  CT was around 
1105 or so, right?  And then MT was 1115 or 1116 and the following years; 
TNE was years after that (the whole virus thing) and then T4 is 0, which 
is 1115 years before MT?  Is this correct?

So based on this, how much of the universe is mapped out in T4?  The Core 
subsector is entirely different from that of MT...there is a Sylea 
region, but no Sylea world in MT, whereas Sylea (the world in Core 
subsectot) is the origin of the third imperium, apparently, in T4.  Have
the rest of the subsectors in the Spnward Marches been 
discovered/explored yet, or are these subsectors going to be 
rewritten as well?  And/or when they ARE discovered, will there be an 
identicacl layout to that of the spinward marches from MT?

Forgive me if there are easy answers to all these questions in books such 
as First Survey or Mileau 0...Shipping appears to be quite behind ai IG, 
and I haven't received these yet...it's been a month since I ordered 
them, at least...<SIGH>


So anyways, thanks in advance for any help that I amy receive from any of 
you on this issue.

Bill Skerbitz
U of MN Morris

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:25:53 -0700
From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
Subject: IG plans for 1998?

So, what's IG got planned for 1998?

Not that I'm waiting with bated breath after the consistent series of flops
they've been producing. But I'm surprised they haven't announced a plan and
product list. Or perhaps they're turning over the reins to GURPS
Traveller...

Best,

Chris Griffen

===================================================
Keeper of the Flame. Traveller player since 1980.

http://www.best.com/~cgriffen/traveller/deneb.shtml


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher Griffen                      Phone: (408) 527-7189
Cisco Systems, Inc.                      Fax:   (408) 527-0452
NMBU Technical Publications

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:12:48 -0500
From: "Commander X (aka Arcanus)" <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: Re: Hamster Test

ARGH! 
My appologies to those on the TML who are feeling more rodent like.

I also sent many test to my home (where I am sending this post)  I
turned into a hamster at least 5 times! :(

I don't understand why this program insists on sending winmail.dat.  I
followed the help instructions and turned off the "send as microsoft
rich text" checkbox, and it still sent the blankety blank attachment! :(

I know this is off topic but if anyone has experience with Microsloth
Outlook, please tell me how to stop sending this garbage to the list.  I
understand it is unwanted, anoying, and eats up drive space. My most
sincere appologies for this.

Untill I figure this out, It looks like i will have to not send posts
from the office.

Again my appologies.

Commander X

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:28:31 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Trade Stations and Red crew/Blue crew

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> > First, let me say that I am *not* trying to ressurect the whole cargo loading
> > debate that flamed so wonderfully during the infamous piracy wars...
> >
> > I can see where it would work for some cargos, especially ones that need
> > long-term storage and can take hard vacuum.  (what to do with that cargo you
> > got stuck with, and there is no market?)
> >
> > I'm not sure that putting it in orbit around the mainworld would work
> > tho'.  Close orbits are expensive (that's what we pay cr 100 for the
> > first week, then cr 100 per day for...), and the further out you
> > place it, the worse the security would be.
>
> Don't forget just how much room there is. even close in. And "close"
> can be "a couple hundred km".
>
> > Which brings up another point...are insystem craft (shuttles, etc)
> > required to have transponders the same as jump ships?
>
> Yep. For the same reason all commercial aircraft have them (and private
> aircraft would too if the FAA had its way). It's pretty much a
> requirement for traffic control.

Exactly my point.  The Imperium licenses and controls Jump-capable ships, do they
also control non-jump ships?  To use your example, the FAA requires transponders
on commercial aircraft, but they do not require them on private aircraft, even
tho' the two operate in the same area.


>
>
> > What skills would be required to break into a warehouse? (Intrusion
> > and Electronics?)  What skills would be needed to get the cargo
> > off-world? (Admin and Bribery/Forgery?)  What skills would be needed
> > to access free-orbit cargo?  (Forgery/Bribery?)
>
> ECM skill and gear, for one. And it'd cost very little to add a radio
> "screamer" proximity alarm to the setup. Fail to send the right
> "combination" and the alarm starts broadcasting to everybody that
> somebody is trying to rip you off.

So knowing the response time of the security crews responsible for the cargo would
be a good thing!  :)

I think that having 'shelters' would probably be better.  Cheap hulls with a small
power supply, docking facility, and floor plates.  It has the advantage of making
cargo handling easier, doesn't take up potentially valuable ground space, and it
would not be possible to tell at a glance whether or not cargo was currently
present, or how much cargo it contained.


- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:32:16 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Hamster test

Bill Prankard wrote:

> This is a test to see if the stupid "winmail.dat" genetic hamster
> transformation code is suppressed.
> I checked the properties of this address in my adress book, the rich text
> checkbox is off.  I thought this was off in the last comment about sayat
> phrasebooks.
>
> I realy hate my office's decision to use this Microsloth program.
>
> Here it goes...
>
>                                                   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>                      Name: WINMAIL.DAT
>    WINMAIL.DAT       Type: APPLICATION/X-TNEF
>                  Encoding: BASE64

 Bill (and any others thinking of using Outlook):

There is an error in the original code (i.e. what's on the CD) that causes any 'reply to:' address to automatically be formatted in
..rtf format (creating a winmail.dat).

There is an upgrade on the MS website that will resolve this problem.

douglas

- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:14:36 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: No. 6

At 11:45 PM 1/14/98 +0000, you wrote:

>	Anyway, if a whole tv series can be made around the incorrectly assumed
>inflexion of a single statement, couldn't something similar be done in a
>Traveller scenario? Often two words - or names - sound similar but mean
>different things. There are two systems in the Spinward Marches that have
>similar sounding names, and actually border each other. They are Dinom and
>Dinomn. What fun one could have spending six months sending the characters
>to the wrong place!
>
>	And of course, there are a few systems too in the Marches that have
>completely the same name! Heroni for instance is the name of a system in
>both the Rhylanor and Mora subsectors! There are others, but I can't
>remember what they are.

True story.

A german woman was going to visit San Jose, Costa Rica.  Her travel agent
put her on a plane to San Jose.. California.  Luckily, the hotel she ended
up at had a German-speaking desk clerk, and they managed to get her on a
flight heading south, but the possibilites are there...
- --

+------------------------*------------------------+
|    Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net     |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/index.html     |
+-------------------------------------------------+
| Truth resides in the human heart and one has to |
|  search for it there, and to be guided by the   |
|  truth as one sees it. But no one has the right |
|  to coerce others to act according to his own   |
| view of the truth.            -- Gandhi         |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:07:28 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Asimov

At 10:50 PM 1/14/98 EST, you wrote:
>Nathan said:
>
>> IMO naming the Imperium's first emperor after Foundation's last emperor 
>> is in homage to the late Grandmaster.
>
>Frank and Marc made up the list of Emperors...I don't know if it was
>intentional or not. In any case, Isaac Asimov influenced us all. How could he
>not? He was one of the group that invented the future...

Hey, at NorEasCon III, I got back slapped by Asimov because of a button I
was wearing.  "Harlan Ellison: 50 years of SHORT fiction"
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:24:26 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Questions ? ? ?

At 11:09 AM 1/15/98 -0500, you wrote:

>First of all, could I get a timeline on the various games?  CT was around 
>1105 or so, right?  And then MT was 1115 or 1116 and the following years; 
>TNE was years after that (the whole virus thing) and then T4 is 0, which 
>is 1115 years before MT?  Is this correct?

Got it in one.  TNE is set around 1200.  The final end of the Imperium was
about 1130.  T4 is set at the Imperium's founding, the Year 0 up to about 200.

>So based on this, how much of the universe is mapped out in T4?  The Core 
>subsector is entirely different from that of MT...there is a Sylea 
>region, but no Sylea world in MT, whereas Sylea (the world in Core 
>subsectot) is the origin of the third imperium, apparently, in T4.  Have
>the rest of the subsectors in the Spnward Marches been 
>discovered/explored yet, or are these subsectors going to be 
>rewritten as well?  And/or when they ARE discovered, will there be an 
>identicacl layout to that of the spinward marches from MT?

The Milieu:0 Campaign has a useful guide to how fast the Imperium expands.
In 0, the Imperium has at least explored most of Core, and recontacted Vland.

Explorers and Merchants reach the Spinward Marches around 50 (since they
contact the Zhodani around 60, and that happens spinward of the SM.)

>Forgive me if there are easy answers to all these questions in books such 
>as First Survey or Mileau 0...Shipping appears to be quite behind ai IG, 
>and I haven't received these yet...it's been a month since I ordered 
>them, at least...<SIGH>

welocme to IG.
Welcome Back!
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 98 18:02 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: No. 6

In-Reply-To: <19980114205318953.AAA46@[192.168.2.7]>

Glenn,

> > "Who is number one?"
> > "You are, number 6."
> >
> > See ya...
>  
> Should that not be "Be Seeing You"?
>  
> We Want Information...Information...Information

You won't get it.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 98 18:02 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Foundation

In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980114121904.3607a434@mail.hooked.net>

Douglas,

> Ah, yes.. I remember Craig throwing me to the floor, sticking his copy of
> Foundation in my hand, and threatening me with dire effects (such as the
> end of our Traveller sessions) if I didn't read it immediately.
>  
> I read it in one sitting.  Great stuff.

I tried reading it years ago, but never got more than half way through the 
first book. Very disappointed. I may give it another go one day, but I've 
already got a stack of unread books 2' high...
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:41:12 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net>
Subject: Re: FFS2 streamlining (was re: Missile Design Question)

Bolie Williams IV wrote:
 
> On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Richard A. Flores wrote:
> > I was wondering if you could use the waste space or a portion of it for fuel
> > storage?  Like wing tanks?

I think *some* of it should be,  but there are no rules for doing that
and no direct responses from the authors on this specific subject.

> When you are using waste space to represent streamlining, the space isn't
> really there.  It's a way to represent the increased hull area for the
> same volume that you get when you start streamlining.  There are two ways
> to go, multiply surface area by some factor or decrease usable volume by
> some factor.

That's right.  However, FFS2 includes both Waste Volume AND Waste Area
in it's streamlining calculations.  A hypersonic hull loses 15% in
Volume and 35% in Area to waste, and yes I know about the >1000 stere
rule. I'm less uncomfortable with waste volume than I am with waste
area.

Eris

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jan 1998 14:43 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Potential House Rule: Starship Reliability Number

Potential House Rule:

Upon completion of a new ship, it is given a reliability number of:

	Ship's TL + 2D6   (good for TLs 10-15)

This number or less is rolled on 2D to insure a safe jump.
Die modifiers include the astrogator's skill and the engineer's
skill.

The number is temporarily decreased one point for each month the
ship does not have a 2-week maintenance overhaul.  These points
are restored after the overhaul.

The number is permanently decreased one point 
	for each 10 years of the ship's age, and
	for each misjump the ship has undergone.

Opinions?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:49:14 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Trade Stations and Red crew/Blue crew

On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Mark Laney wrote:
 
> Actually does security really matter. Anything that important to your
> character you wouldn't leave  and anything else you get insurance to cover.
> So if somebody takes your stuff you still get paid.

Well, in that case, security _does_ matter, because your insurance company
will require either decent security or really high premiums.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:10:30 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Microfoil - "New" Item for Traveller

>I read it.  I liked it.  I will probably use it.
>Info snipped seemed to cover everything.
>Except...  Thanks Semo.

No problem.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:05:31 -0500
From: Michael Kent <mkent@atlantic.net>
Subject: The Family Grav-Car: Infrasystem Requirements

Certain comments from the recent TML traffic regarding warehouses
started me thinking.

>> Which brings up another point...are insystem craft (shuttles, etc)
>> required to have transponders the same as jump ships?
>
>Yep. For the same reason all commercial aircraft have them (and private
>aircraft would too if the FAA had its way). It's pretty much a
>requirement for traffic control.

Consider the situation where a world's TL is high enough where it's
reasonable that the average person/family has a grav vehicle as their
'family car'.

You can immediately see that the air traffic control problems would be
roughly equivalent to everyone in today's US having a personal VTOL
aircraft or helicopter as their primary means of transportation.

My contention is that the only practical way for a society to allow
personal grav vehicles is if they are under automated control of a
central traffic grid, with mid-air 'traffic lanes'.  For a government to
allow otherwise is to accept that there are crashed grav vehicles
raining down from the sky onto the buildings and pedestrians below, on a
frequent basis.  Even given a collision-avoidance system in the grav
vehicles, you must still have traffic lanes, and only a centralized
system could enforce those.

I think in my game I'm going to have as background material that all
grav vehicles operating on civilized worlds MUST have provisions for
automated control, and unless specially-licensed (police, fire, etc.),
must always be under automated control.

This means, of course, that such automation must be standard equipment
on all grav vehicles.  It also means that given such automation, the
only skill needed to operate one under normal conditions would be 'Grav
Vehicle-0'.  Get in, punch in your destination, and sit back.  Welcome
to the friendly skys of Traveller.

Comments?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:07:22 PST
From: "Paul Zumstein" <pzumstein@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: No. 6

>From: Bruce E J Lewis <bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk>

>
>	And of course, there are a few systems too in the Marches that have
>completely the same name! Heroni for instance is the name of a system 
in
>both the Rhylanor and Mora subsectors! There are others, but I can't
>remember what they are.
>
>	So, be seeing ya!
>
>	Bruce E J Lewis <bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk>
>
>
>

These systems are:

Aramis             2540/3110
Inthe              2234/2410
Kinorb             2202/2512
Margesi            1020/3212
Mirriam            0333/1315
Natoko             2620/3209

Others worth mentioning are:

Tenalphi (1826), Tenelphi (3040), Whanga (1806) and Whenge (0503)

bye-bye

pz


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jan 1998 15:10 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Martial Arts

Rob's take on martial arts:

Back when I played that very well-done computer game _Wasteland_,
one's combat ability seemed to be enhanced by the "Acrobat" skill.

So, I assume martial arts is implied when someone has brawling
and athletics skills, unless the player doesn't want that assumption.
If the player likes the idea, then I use athletics as an additional
DM in hand-to-hand combat.

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:18:29 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Routine Maintainence

of course, this is readily fixed, then it's age of subsystem/10 for
maintenence on any major subsystems, say Power, J Drive, Thrusters, Life
Support. That way the spanking new J drive doesn't need all that much, but
the creaky 40-year-old fusion plant needs some work, and the %#$@#
ventilation systems _still_ smell like old sneakers...

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Steven Hudson wrote:

> >Subject: Routine Maintainence
> ...
> >Ships need Age/10 days of routine maintainence between jumps.
> 
>   What if the cunning little gits (or the procurement group for
> the mega-corp) decide to replace the J-drive instead? I wouldn't
> want to try and convince the players (or the TML) that the age
> of the deck-plating was relevant :)
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:53:27 -0500
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

>Has anyone ever developed a religion career for traveller?
>
[snip]
>The leader of the church wore black battledress with
>a white cross on it
[snip]
> I think religion can be a very powerful tool
>

Nice Imagery.  It immediately inspired an adventure scenario...details when
it coalesces.

>in both holding an interstellar empire together, or expanding one,
>especially into low-tech systems.
>
>There could be a connection to psionics, although I'm not sure thats
>ideal.  I had considered a parallel "Faith" stat, that would give
>abilities similar to psionics like healing, etc., but that isn't ideal.
>I think ultimately, no powers, etc., are necessary, and that those who
>belong to a religion may receive what ever tangible benefits that church
>can give (e.g., the church can give you a career assiting with spreading
>the word or battling the infidel), but that they should be limited to
>that church's codes of conduct losing those benefits if caught violating
>them (and branded heretic, excommunicated, denied communion/nirvana,
>etc.), with all the excellent role-playing opportunities that might
>provide.

The only psionic connection I would advocate would be that psionics, like
sex for pleasure's sake, masturbation and homosexuality, are outlawed.

I have a picture of the Catholic Church in the Third Imperium exerting all
its old influence and power.  I especially like the image of Cardinal as
Subsector Marquis, regal in her bright red robes.

I hadn't though of it as a Player tool, only as background.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:54:47 -0800
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: The Family Grav-Car: Infrasystem Requirements

Michael Kent wrote:

> My contention is that the only practical way for a society to allow
> personal grav vehicles is if they are under automated control of a
> central traffic grid, with mid-air 'traffic lanes'.  For a government to
> allow otherwise is to accept that there are crashed grav vehicles
> raining down from the sky onto the buildings and pedestrians below, on a
> frequent basis.  Even given a collision-avoidance system in the grav
> vehicles, you must still have traffic lanes, and only a centralized
> system could enforce those.
>
> I think in my game I'm going to have as background material that all
> grav vehicles operating on civilized worlds MUST have provisions for
> automated control, and unless specially-licensed (police, fire, etc.),
> must always be under automated control.
>
> This means, of course, that such automation must be standard equipment
> on all grav vehicles.  It also means that given such automation, the
> only skill needed to operate one under normal conditions would be 'Grav
> Vehicle-0'.  Get in, punch in your destination, and sit back.  Welcome
> to the friendly skys of Traveller.
>
> Comments?

 I tend to agree within certain boundaries.  It will depend on the population
size and density, and the law level of the world.

IMHO, as long as the population code is less than the world size code there
would not be a demand for personal grav-vehicle ATC (exception - in urban areas,
where the density would be higher).  I would tend to make a LL roll (2D vs. the
Law Level code) to see if that planet has a specific problem in this area.  I
can also see exceptions for people who are 'certified' grav-operators (Grav
Vehicle 1+).

On the other hand, I've always believed that the autopilots of vehicles,
advanced aircraft, and starships can be operated on a 'push-button' basis for
non-difficult manuevers.  Probably the majority of the population on any world
with a traffic net only know how to select their destination and sit back.  The
manual controls are something that are used in extreme emergencies (and by the
kids when the parents are not with 'em).

As opposed to direct control, I can see where personal vehicles have hard-
and/or soft-wired 'safeties' that prevent them from being taken outside certain
limitations.  Vehicles must travel at at least 500 meters unless the landing
cycle is engaged, privately owned passenger vehicles may not be able to climb
over 3 Km, a commercial vehicle may not exceed 15Km, etc... - without specific
licenses and equipment.

I did run an adventure once where the protaganist (who was being chased)
bypassed the autopilot of the gravcab and took it to orbit to escape....

douglas

- --
_________________________________________
E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller.html

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:25:44 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: Potential House Rule: Starship Reliability Number

At 02:43 PM 1/15/98 EST, you wrote:
>Potential House Rule:
>
>Upon completion of a new ship, it is given a reliability number of:
>
>	Ship's TL + 2D6   (good for TLs 10-15)
>
>This number or less is rolled on 2D to insure a safe jump.
>Die modifiers include the astrogator's skill and the engineer's
>skill.
>
>The number is temporarily decreased one point for each month the
>ship does not have a 2-week maintenance overhaul.  These points
>are restored after the overhaul.
>
>The number is permanently decreased one point 
>	for each 10 years of the ship's age, and
>	for each misjump the ship has undergone.
>
>Opinions?


Just as a suggestion: there should be some point where you "cap" the
degradation.  Also, perhaps a simplified concept of a "really bad roll"
determines a Failure of a system.  For example: on a roll of snake eyes (or
is it box cars?), the unit breaks down no if's, and's, or buts.  Since this
statisticallly works out to be once in 36 die rolls, this means that the
statistical Mean time before Failure will be roughly 1 in 3 years.

 One thing that puzzles me regarding safety of ships in the imperium.
First off, maritime law (if I recall correctly) requires ships to have some
lifeboat provisions for crew and passengers.  Why don't traveller ships
have this requirement?  Also, safety should be a number one requirement for
ships.  Imagine the effects of a space going ship, entering into the
planet's atmoshpere, and losing control or losing engine thrust, or
antigravity?  Can you say MAJOR IMPACT kiddies?
  In any case, perhaps one should have a situation where the ships come in
for a landing (or docking in orbit) where shipboard inspectors come aboard
not for inspection of contraband and such, but for purposes of inspecting
equipment and testing for reliability in key areas?

     Hal

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2238
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 15 1998     Volume 1997 : Number 2239



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Religion Careers
Re: FFS2 streamlining
Japan/China
Printing Delays - Missions of State
Religion Careers (fwd)
Re: Routine Maintainence
Re: Let's say books
spaceport authority customs
Potential House Rule: Starship Reliability Number
No. 6 redux
Lifeboats
Re: Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs
Re: Religion Careers
JTAS 2
Re: Routine Maintainence
Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:33:33 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

Stevie D (aka Bloo) writes:

>Has anyone ever developed a religion career for traveller?

   In the "Children of Earth" material I wrote for Traveller Chronicle (a
setting which covers Earth and its neighbors in the New Era) there are
several priestly orders that are a part of Gabreelism, a religion that
arises on Terra in the wake of the Colllapse.

>I was reading the Deathstalker books recently and was intrigued by the
>Church of Christ the Warrior.  Commando Deacons, Militant Monks,
>Battling Bishops.  The leader of the church wore black battledress with
>a white cross on it (I also pictured a little white square in the
>rectangle).  While I can see that a game makers would want to keep out
>of this potentially sensitive area

   I dove into the water in the half pike position...

   My thinking: the story behind the whole New Era milieu had this sort of
Old Testament "wrath of God" feel to it.  Gnashing of teeth, tormenting and
lamenting, etc.  People in such times find religion *really* fast, or they
invent one.  Also, I got a bit tired of the same old "religious oligarchy
that oppresses the people" sterotype in Traveller and sci-fi RPGs in
general, and came up with a world where the religous types are the *good* guys.

   However, in my setting Gabreelism has a role more akin to the Catholic
Church c.1200, or to the role it played in the Byzantine Empire than to the
setting you describe.  There are those individuals who do things with and
without Faith sanction (and with Faith sanction but not government sanction)
that would be similar, but the basic theme isn't "Holy Justice" or "Holy
Vigilante Justice".

> (although I don't know if it was a
>conscious decision or not), I think religion can be a very powerful tool

   To be perfectly blunt, at one time game designers were scared sh*tless by
Protestant religious groups, and "concerned" parents groups here in the US
(nothing hurts sales like a picket line outside your game store).  Things
have loosened up over the last several years, but there are still subjects
that are taboo, particularly for the major players like TSR (IIRC, your
character can still drink grog or ale in a tavern until his sides split, but
there are no official rules for drunkenness in AD&D).

>There could be a connection to psionics, although I'm not sure thats
>ideal.

   Actually in Gabreelism, there are trained psions (all new priests are
tested), and the Faith has a monopoly on training.  However, not all priests
psionic (actually the number is something like 5 percent that are).  The way
character generation is set up for Children of Earth, psions are extremely
rare, and those that do exist and have powers that can effect the game are
almost always high faith level priests.

>  I had considered a parallel "Faith" stat, that would give
>abilities similar to psionics like healing, etc., but that isn't ideal.

   This is something I included in Children of Earth, and it works quite
well.  'Faith' level is generated as an extra stat using 2D6.  The more
extreme your Faith level up or down the scale (characters with low Faith
level aren't necessarily agnostics or atheists--they just don't adhere to
the practices of the Faith as closely as others), the more likely it is that
it will have an effect on your character's behavior.  I've also noted that
my players take one of two approaches to it: since the rules allow you the
option to select your Faith level rather than have it randomly rolled, most
of them have chosen a Faith level that more or less matches their own
beliefs with regard to God.  Most of the others have seen playing high Faith
level characters as a role-playing challenge, and have deliberately chosen
to play someone of that nature.  

>I think ultimately, no powers, etc., are necessary, and that those who
>belong to a religion may receive what ever tangible benefits that church
>can give (e.g., the church can give you a career assiting with spreading
>the word or battling the infidel), but that they should be limited to
>that church's codes of conduct losing those benefits if caught violating
>them (and branded heretic, excommunicated, denied communion/nirvana,
>etc.), with all the excellent role-playing opportunities that might
>provide.

   I felt the need to add Faith level and some other things to give the
setting more of a feel of a interstellar state in which religion plays a
preeminent role.  Otherwise, 'God', 'heretic', and all those other words and
phrases you mention that should have powerful meaning are just window
dressing for the same old "let's get into a rocket ship and get into
trouble" scenario.

Regards,

Harold

P.S.  The basic material you need to use "Children of Earth" are available
from Sword of the Knight Publications and appear in issues #10 and #11.  You
can pick up both for a total of US$8.00 (unless Kevin changed the prices on
me) plus postage.  Given how much IG charges for one sourcebook, that's a
pretty good deal.

- --h
 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:52:17 -0800
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <schoon@aimnet.com>
Subject: Re: FFS2 streamlining

bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh) wrote:

>This has the interesting effect that it's actually vastly more efficient
>to streamline the whole AHL than to streamline
>the fuel shuttles.
[snip]

I agree with Bruce on this one. While I understand how the rules currently
read, I don't agree. I would think that some sort of inverse log scale
would work slightly better, and keep things a bit more realistic.

While it may not be VASTLY more eficient, it should be generally more
efficient.


Schoon

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:09:37 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Japan/China

cybernot@gte.net said:

> A good modern (and ancient) example of this would be the Chinese.  They have
> an ancient saying, "You may conquer us today, but, tomorrow your children
> will be Chinese."  This was usually said to the Japanese that conquered that
> nation several times.  

Please be so kind as to list the invasions of China by Japan before 1900.
Perhaps I'm getting old, but I cannot remember _any_ succesful ones prior to
the Sino-Japanese War.

I'm sure the saying was quoted to the Mongols, however.

Loren Wiseman
   GDW Emeritus, SJG Emigre

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:25:21 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Printing Delays - Missions of State

I just got off the phone with SweetPea (I get better results than
from trying to call IG direct) to clear up some minor problems
before they became matters for the Attorney General.  In the
process, I learned that the printer for Missions of State is
located in New York State, not far from the international border
with Qubec province in Canada.

This is, for the time being, a bad thing.  There is a five-county
area in upstate New York that has been declared a disaster area
because of the recent (and possibly still ongoing) ice storm
conditions that have so drastically affected that area, plus New
England and Qubec.  Many utilities are completely out of
service; a state of emergency has been declared.  As a result,
there have been (and will continue to be, in the near term)
difficulties in printing this item, which I am told _is_ in the
printer's hands.

Special note for gearheads: In your various designs for power
plants, you now need to include railroad locomotives for TL7+ -
when I was listening to the radio this morning, they said that
one municipality in Qubec was using two of them as emergency
generators.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 98 22:41 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Religion Careers (fwd)

Moin Stevie D,

> Has anyone ever developed a religion career for traveller?

	The TNE had a technical priesthood, and perhaps you can find
	similar during the long night. But its allways posibible to
	discuss a career with a referee, as long as it does'nt give
	more skills than usual.

	Requirement for technical priest was :

	Edu=5+, homeworld techlevel=pre industrial-, 10+ on 2d6 for commission,
	Edu 7+ and Soc A+ give a bonus for commission.

	Acolyte skills : armed martial art, recruiting, service, streetwise,
	  unarmed martial arts
	Priest skills : act/bluff, armed martial arts, computer, electronics,
	  gun combat, instruction, leadership

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 98 22:59 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Routine Maintainence

Moin Leonard Erickson,

> +----------+
> | LH2 pump |
> +-----+----+
>       |           +---------+
>       v        +->+ reactor |
> +-----+-----+  |  +----+----+
> |    heat   +->+       |
> |           |          v
> | exchanger +<-+  +----+------+     +------+
> +-----+-----+  |  |    MHD    |     | jump |
>       |        +<-+           +---->+      |
>       v           | generator |     | grid |
> +-----+-----+     +-----------+     +------+
> |  exhaust  |
> +-----------+

	Nice try (looks like MT), now what we know about (TNE+T4) :

	- 1/3 of volume is HPG - mechanic and normaly not intended for
	  8*24 hours works, but for short combat situation
	- Important but of insignificant volume is jump grid.
	- the jump drive consumes LHy and power, it does not produce power.

	So here is my try :

		power plant
		 |   |
		 |  HPG
		 |   |
	fuel ->	Jump Drive -> jump-grid

	The power plant produces power stored in the HPG, the fuel is
	feed trough the jump drive, and pulsed through the grid. The
	jumpdrive itself as a "black box" is not only an oversized
	contragraph for producing the jump bubble (a black hole
	tunnelling with more than light speed towards the next mass) 
	but also "charging" the LHy that will become dispenced to the
	bubble to avoid collapse.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:54:24 -0800
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Let's say books

At 01:50 AM 1/15/98 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>> Scott Ellsworth wrote:
>>  
>>
>>> snip>  James Hogan's "Past
>>> Through Tomorrow" had a strong communistic streak, and had a more
>>> "realistic" feel for me.  But then, I am a sucker for any book with
>>> antimatter as a power source.
>>> 
>>> Hogan also creates a society without money or material wealth being
related
>>> to status, but it has a more SF feel, as it is set on a colony in Alpha
>>> Centauri.  It seems to mesh better, partly because he is writing closer to
>>> today.  He has the advantage of high tech robots to do production, no
>>> outside influences to force conformance, and a very small first
generation,
>>> such that a fad could become a culture.
>>> 
>>> Scott
>>> Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
>> Thanks Scott, another book to add to the try and find list.
>
>The title has "Tommorrow" in it, or perhaps "Tomorrows", but it *isn't*
>"Past Through Tomorrow". That was an old Heinlein collection.
>
>A quick check of the only two Hogan books I have that *aren't* in
>storage gives "The Two Faces of Tomorrow" as the likely title.

Would you believe "Voyage from Yesteryear?"  ISTR that Two Faces was a near
future book about building an AI.

Sigh.  And I read it in the last couple of years, too.  More recently than
the Heinlein omnibus.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:42:43 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: spaceport authority customs

Hello Folks,
  Just a tidbit I thought I'd share with you all...

  After having run TNE twice with my gaming group, and noting the general
effects of my players on civilized areas when authority tries to chastize
them when they are committing a no no...

  Spaceport Authorities handle ships in three different manners, depending
on the classification of ship.  

  The first is Warship.  Warships are presumed to have right of way in
space regardless.  Commercial traffic will be warned or rerouted whenever a
warship's path will bring them anywhere near where the commercial traffic
is going.  In instances where warships require security of any kind, a
restricted "space" will be declared forcing ships to reroute.  Of course,
those ships that have yet to file a flight plan, or are in the process of
filing said flight plan, will be told to respect the no flight zone, and
reroute.

  The second category is the armed warship.  These ships are supposedly
registered.  If they are not in the registry due to the information not as
yet having been distributed (why the hell aren't they registered - the
x-boat express is supposed to be faster than normal ships!), then the
ship's captain must advise the spaceport authority that they are armed.  At
which point, safely outside of effective firing range for most weaponry at
either the planet's boundry or spacestation boundry, the armed ship is
expected to wait until boarded by a customs team.  Said team will insure as
best as able, that the weapons are not powered up, and perhaps a lockdown
performed to insure that the ship's weapons cannot be readily discharged.
Also, nuclear weapons are a no-no - and confiscated upon discovery!

  The third and final category of ships is of course, unarmed.  These
ships, aside from interacting with no flight zones, may fly straight to a
docking zone, or to a landing zone.

  Also, as an idea, perhaps ships that are armed, might be required to post
a bond, or be bondable by external agencies, in an effort to induce armed
ships not to randomly fire upon civilized areas.  Thus, a ship that has
fired in anger against authority, will be required to relinquish their
escrow account (bond)  and be hunted down as criminals etc... wherein
which, a board of inquiry will be effected against the captain of the ship,
and the guilty perpetrators executed/incarcerated.

  Just some thoughts on how to handle Player characters who think nothing
of using nuclear warheads on civilized populations!  I don't know about
anyone else, but if I lived on planet, within distance of weapons of mass
desctruction, I would be extremely nervous...

     Hal

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 98 22:29 
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Potential House Rule: Starship Reliability Number

Moin Robert Eaglestone,

> Upon completion of a new ship, it is given a reliability number of:
> 
> 	Ship's TL + 2D6   (good for TLs 10-15)
> 
> This number or less is rolled on 2D to insure a safe jump.
> Die modifiers include the astrogator's skill and the engineer's
> skill.
> 
> The number is temporarily decreased one point for each month the
> ship does not have a 2-week maintenance overhaul.  These points
> are restored after the overhaul.
> 
> The number is permanently decreased one point 
> 	for each 10 years of the ship's age, and
> 	for each misjump the ship has undergone.

	sounds good, but why not using the canon (TNE) maintenance and
	wearvalue rules. Each item has a maintenance value equal to the
	numbers of hour per week. Each item has also a wearvalue (between
	1-10) and if you use that item, you have to roll more or equal
	than that number on 1d10. If failed you have a potencial breakdown,
	to avoid having a real breakdown is average mechanic, rolled by
	the one who done the maintenance. If there was no maintenance check,
	well the think will break without taskcheck. A posible breakdown
	can be delayed by 1d8 hours, if running at half power. Spending
	twice the number of hour for preventive maintenance will decrease
	the breakdown chance by 2, spending 3 times by 3 and so on. On
	overhaul will usualy half the wear value (round up).

	e.g. if a thing has a wear value of 6 and needs 4 hours maintenance,
	and you spend 12 hours before using it, you have to roll 3 or more.
	If you want to asure that it works, spend 20 hours.  If it has an
	overhaul it will have a wear value of 3, and double maintenance will
	secure steady work.

	A breakdown can be minor or major. If the mechanic test failed,
	a second roll against the wearvalue will clarify this. The
	distinction between minor and major breakdown, is that the major
	breakdown will need major repair parts, while the minor can be
	repaired with the aid of the mechanic+electronic shop. To rebuild
	a part in a M&E shop is at least difficult mechanic and takes 1d10
	hours. Roll 1d10>=wear value and increase difficulty anytime failed.
	Beyond imposible means that you have to buy a new part. Battle damage
	is also classified in minor and major damage (less or more than 20
	briliant lances points) and handled by the same repair rules.

	All 10 real breakdowns the wear value will increase by one, an item
	with a wear value of 10, is worn out. Under normal use each part will
	increase wear by 1 every 10 years.


- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:44:32 -0500
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: No. 6 redux

Andrew said something like:
>> We Want Information...Information...Information
>
> You won't get it.

By hook or by crook , we will

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:37:05 EST
From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
Subject: Lifeboats

Hal asks:

> One thing that puzzles me regarding safety of ships in the imperium.
> First off, maritime law (if I recall correctly) requires ships to have some
> lifeboat provisions for crew and passengers.  Why don't traveller ships
> have this requirement?  

Because it was one of a kajillion things we never got the time to mention. 

They probably _do_ have requirements, but since no formal design ever included
lifeboats, the law probably specifies a certain ratio of rescue balls to
occupants for vessels under <mumble-mumble> tons. 

Larger passenger vessels have lifeboats in at least one canon source (see
Marooned/Marooned Alone*).

Loren Wiseman
     GDW Emeritus, SJG Emigre

* Extra points to the first person who names the class of luxury liner
mentioned in that book. Pity I never got around to designing it.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:42:11 +0000
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs

One example I haven't seen mentioned: Ken & Jo Walton's Sintra Station, 
in Arcane 7.  Plan's a bit weird, but I particularly like the short 
character writeups.
 
John G. Wood  |  john@elvw.demon.co.uk  |  Oxford, United Kingdom

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:18:38 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

>I have a picture of the Catholic Church in the Third Imperium exerting all
>its old influence and power.  I especially like the image of Cardinal as
>Subsector Marquis, regal in her bright red robes.
>
>I hadn't though of it as a Player tool, only as background.

Well, one would have to avoid the controversy of any "endorsement" of a
religion. Also of mistakenly (or intentionaly) mocking the precepts of a
contemporary religion.       
    The concept would fit w/ the medieval imagery and i wouldn't mind seeing a
cardinal in HIS red robes.   I'm not that hard assed about such matters,and
i'm not interested in a theological debate on the tml, but being a Catholic
Christian, I wouldn't like any of the Clergy being female (much less any of
the Cardinals or the Pope).  Ditto goes for marriage.  Anyone who wishes to
debate these issues (or any others) ; ) is more than welcome to take it into
private email w/ me.  
    These are the problems (amongst others) one will run into with portraying
any contemporary religion in anything as fickle as a rpg.
     

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:56:40 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: JTAS 2

Does anybody know where I might get hold of a copy of JTAS 2 (specifically
the stuff about Victoria)? I've tried all my traveller junkie friends here
and none of them have a copy.

Thank you in advance

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm (general)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/abuse/abuse.htm (sexual abuse pages)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/traveller.htm (Traveller pages)

****************************************************************************
We're digging a hole in the road, you can't go up, you can't go down
you'll have to wait to drive around
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:53:42 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Routine Maintainence

Leonard Erickson said:


>You *could* design ships where the J-Drive was in a sort of "pod" that
>bolts onto the ship, and has pre-placed connectors. But that makes the
>design more expensive. And you need to have the right sort of "pod"
>available. I'd be willing to bet that designing the drive that way
>makes it *harder* to do the "maintenance" on once you get it removed
>from the ship. ...

Probably not.  If anything it would make it less because once removed, it
would be totally accessable.

> ... So you'd be paying for *increased* maintenance costs,
>*plus* the cost of labor and equipment for swapping the drive pod
>*plus* the capital costs of keeping drive pods around so that they'll
>be available for swapping.
>
>In short, you could save time that way, but it'd $cost$. As usual in
>the real world, saving time takes money.

This is called a modular vehicle.  "A vehicle designed to have large,
easily replaceable chunks will have double the structure cost and
mass. In addition each module will suffer a 10% volume penalty and
cost 50% more than normal.  That is the total volume of the
components is increased by 10%, and their total cost is increased
by 50%.  These disadvantages are offset by the ability to replace
modules in modules in short order (25% of the equivalent "repair"
time) to meet a given need." (CSC p 55)

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jan 1998 14:09 EST
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography

Howdy all,

Even with the assumption that starports are constructed and
maintained by the host system/world, design and layout will
still follow (more or less) a given format.

Another thought I had is that a starport upgrade may not be
a simple job;  it might mean the construction of a brand new
starport with extended facilities (for example, any new 
airport or airport wing is a new building).

Ok, on to the basic format.  With a little guidance from a
couple of friends, here's what I've come up with:

Starports are planetary or orbital installations built for the support of 
people and machinery in space.  Starports may be used for individual, 
corporate, military or government purpose.  This document gives an abstract 
of the minimal facility requirements for each starport class.

Assumptions

1. Established systems separate military starports from commercial starports.

2. At higher TL, satellites (remote sensors) allow the traffic control tower 
   to be nestled in the safest part of the starport's interior.

The Abstract Starport Template

All starports follow a similar layout, with zones interconnected according to 
the following diagram:

		Admin	Insystem
                   |      /
                   |     /
Dock------------Concourse---------------Maintenance
		   |
		   |
		Shipping

A starport is divided into these separate zones:

Dock: where spaceship and starship services are provided.
Concourse: the public section of the starport.
Administration: where starport offices and traffic control are located.
Shipping: where all freight is managed, and corporate offices are located.
Insystem: for all insystem-related passage.
Maintenance: where life support and starport repair facilities are located.

And now for a breakdown of these zones:

Dock

The dock  holds docking facilities, drydock (construction), repair and 
overhaul facilities, and fuelling stations.

		Drydock		Fuel
		       \	|
			\	|
		Overhaul--------Port-----------> to Concourse
		       /
		      /
		Repair

Dock Subzones

What follows is a prioritized list of subzones for this zone.  After each 
subzone name is a list of starports where that subzone is guaranteed to exist.

Port: ABCDFG
Fuel: ABCDFG
Repair: ABCF
Overhaul: AB
Drydock: AB

Concourse

The concourse is equivalent to airport terminal wings.

		  Medic		Ticketing
To		       \	|		   To
Admin,			\	|		   Maintenance,
Dock,	<-------Security--------Lobby----------->  Insystem
Shipping		 /	|
			/	|
		  Shops		Banks/Hotels

What follows is a prioritized list of subzones for this zone.  After each 
subzone name is a list of starports where that subzone is guaranteed to exist.

Security: ABCDF
Lobby: ABCF
Ticketing: ABC
Medic: ABCF
Shops: ABCDF
Banks/Hotels: ABCDF

Administration

The administrative zone is the brain center of the starport.  Offices and 
traffic control are located here.


	Traffic Control---------Offices----------> To Concourse

What follows is a prioritized list of subzones for this zone.  After each 
subzone name is a list of starports where that subzone is guaranteed to exist.

Traffic Control: ABCF
Offices: ABC

Insystem

This zone contains all travel arrangements for the local world/system.

				Shuttle Services
				|
				|
To	<-------Customs---------Atrium-------------Local Guides
Concourse			|
				|
				Travel Agencies


What follows is a prioritized list of subzones for this zone.  After each 
subzone name is a list of starports where that subzone is guaranteed to exist.

Customs: ABCDF
Local Guides: ABCF
Shuttle Service: ABF
Atrium: ABF
Travel: A


Shipping

Shipping contains all cargo services, as well as corporate offices which are 
interested in doing business in the subsector, and keeping an eye on cargo 
shipments through this starport.


	    Cargo Bay
		|    \
		|     \
	Surface-Orbit-----------Hall-----------------> To Concourse 
	Xfer	       /	|   	     \
		      /		|	      \
		     /		|	       \
	Corp. Offices		Brokers		Guilds

What follows is a prioritized list of subzones for this zone.  After each 
subzone name is a list of starports where that subzone is guaranteed to exist.

Brokers: ABC
Surface-to-orbit Transfer Services: ABCF
Hall: ABC
Guilds: ABC
Cargo Bays: ABF
Corporate Offices: AB

Maintenance

Maintenance contains life support facilites, power, repairs and storage to 
insure the smooth functioning of the starport.

		Power		Storage		Repairs
		     \		|	       /
		      \		|	      /
To	<-----------------------Barracks--------Ventilation
Concourse		   /	|
			  /	|
			 /	|
		Recycling-------Hydroponics

What follows is a prioritized list of subzones for this zone.  After each 
subzone name is a list of starports where that subzone is guaranteed to exist.

Power: ABCDFG
Storage: ABCDF
Repairs: ABCF
Ventilation: AB
Barracks: AB
Recycler: AB
Hydroponics: A

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2239
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Friday, January 16 1998      Volume 1997 : Number 2240



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Religion Careers
My FF&S2 spreadsheet - a request
Re: Routine Maintainence
Cool Minis
Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography
Re: Lifeboats
Spaceports
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Routine Maintainence
Re: Lifeboats
Modular Payload (was Maintenance)
Re: Spaceports
Re: Religion Careers
Re: RPSCS
Re: Prisoner - was Sayat conspiracy
Re: Asimov
Re: Prisoner - was Sayat conspiracy
Re: Lifeboats
Re: Biochemistries
Safety Inspections.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:42:39 +1100
From: Jason Anderson <midnight@kagi.com>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

>that are taboo, particularly for the major players like TSR (IIRC, your
>character can still drink grog or ale in a tavern until his sides split, but
>there are no official rules for drunkenness in AD&D).

Not in 2nd edition, but 1st edition had the Intoxitaion Table in the DMG.
As your intoxitation level increased, several stats went down (DEX and INT
I think, although it may have been WIS), while something else went up
(moral I think - might have been CON or STR though). It also had things
like recovery time, and possibly various after effects. I'm not really sure
that the whole thing warrented a table (or the small section discussing the
table), but given the tendancy for PCs to go drinking it could have some
use =).

Cheers,
Jason

- -------
Beyond Midnight Software                               <midnight@kagi.com>
                                      <http://www.vision.net.au/~midnight>

             If it's not on fire then it's a software problem.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 18:40:24 -0600
From: The Akins <igor@ames.net>
Subject: My FF&S2 spreadsheet - a request

Hi there. For those of you who don't know, I'm the author of a FF&S
spreadsheet (freely available in the Drydock section of my Traveller web
pages, at www.ames.net/igor/trav/trav.htm). I'm getting ready to work on
the next version.

Many of you have sent bug reports/suggestions/requests. These are
greatly appreciated. These are also gone, because I had a computer blow
up on me :(

I got my new PC, everything seems to be fine, so if you have found a bug
or have any suggestions on the spreadsheet, please send/re-send them to
me. Thanks.

One of the things that will be fixed in version 1.7 - the economics
page. This thing is VERY broken...for example, I was using the fuel
tankage in cubic meters rather than displacement tons to calculate fuel
cost - thus, fuel cost was WAY too big. Ack ack ack ack.

Thanks for your help, and I hope everyone using the spreadsheet enjoy
it.

- -- 
+----------------------------------------------------------+
| THE AKINS: Andy, Chris, and Matt                         |
+----------------------------------------------------------+
| E-Mail: igor@ames.net                                    |
| WWW:    http://www.ames.net/igor/                        |
+----------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 18:00:50 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Routine Maintainence

I usally used combat to insure that the players were immoble (in a 
steller sense) when I needed them..

"What do you mean it's ginna take 3 months to get a bloody 30 mw 
lanthium power coupler shipped here?? we _only_ have a 2 meter hole 
in the hull!" :)

I don't know if the grid would be easly replacable.. Hmmm. Personal 
option :)

Usaally as far as routine maintance, I simply used the rules out of 
CT and MT.. but assmumed that the cost was spread out over the year.. 
everyonce in a while something would need replacing..

.

>   First I typed "hull", then changed it to "deck plating". So
> you buy a model with easily installed replacement grid modules.
> It seems to be the techno-babble fix(^n) problem. I much prefer
> to just nail them on yearly maintenance costs, say x%, where x
> increases by one-tenth of its starting value each year, so that
> a ten-year old ship costs double to maintain.
> 
>   If x starts at 1% (high, perhaps, YMMV), then a 40-year old
> ship costs 5% of new cost to maintain each year (average). This
> allows for the tramp to develop a tendency to suffer expensive
> repairs on backwaters or when the players lack liquidity <snicker>.
> 
>         Steven Hudson
> 
************************************************************************
tsykoduk@bigfoot.com           http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    Communist (n): one who has given up all hope
    of becoming a Capitalist.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:06:33 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Cool Minis

Hey,

I was just looking at the Star Blazers Fleet Battle System
page--they have some really nifty looking minis.

http://members.aol.com/neghvar2/SFB/strblzrs.htm

I might buy some, figure out a consistant scale for them (should be
easy since we know the length of the Yamato :-) and do up some
designs for traveller.  They look like they are actually in scale
with each other (or decently close). I'm guessing they're about
1:5000 since they look about like the ships I've been sculpting
scale wise.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:24:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Clark Crawford <crawford@ENGR.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography

Knightfall (the only separately published MT adventure) has a couple of
well-mapped starports.  Marc Miller still has a few copies, I think, in
case you are looking for more of this stuff (try FarFuture@aol.com --
that's his business address).

This is a very nice article... I'm keeping it for future reference.

Thanks!


Clark

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:00:27 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Lifeboats

>Hal asks:
>
>> One thing that puzzles me regarding safety of ships in the imperium.
>> First off, maritime law (if I recall correctly) requires ships to have some
>> lifeboat provisions for crew and passengers.  Why don't traveller ships
>> have this requirement?
>
>Because it was one of a kajillion things we never got the time to mention.
>
>They probably _do_ have requirements, but since no formal design ever included
>lifeboats, the law probably specifies a certain ratio of rescue balls to
>occupants for vessels under <mumble-mumble> tons.
>
>Larger passenger vessels have lifeboats in at least one canon source (see
>Marooned/Marooned Alone*).

I don't know (or care) if it's cannon, but at least one DGP source has an
excellent lifeboat in it.  Sorry, that stuff is currently impossible to get
to so don't ask me which it was.  One of the magazines I think.

			Zane


| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                       |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them.    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html            |

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:31:45 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Spaceports

I want to thank Loren Wiseman for his response to my earlier comments
<grin>...

  Ok, on with the next question.  What constitutes a spaceport in
Traveller.  Oh, I don't mean that class A starports can manufacture jump
drives and so forth.  What I mean, is how difficult is it to upgrade from
one starport to another?

  The reason I ask, is for those of us who want to look at "historical"
forces and try to decide what starports are going to come into being years
down the road.

  If I may, I would like to point out TWILGHT'S PEAK adventure #3.  It it,
it discusses how the MagnetoDynamics corporation was able to create a
class A starport.  What I am basically looking at, from this point of
view, is what are the minimum requirements to go from what would appear to
be an X or D class starport, and transform it into an A starport.  How
much to build the factories that build jump drives, how much to build the
support infrastructure that permits cargoes to be collected quickly and
efficiently, how much for the repair shops, the ship fabrication shops,
the shipyards themselves, etc...

  As you can see, this seems to be an area that has been neglected in the
long run, unless this has been addressed prior to my resumption of this
mailing list <grin>.

      Hal

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:24:15 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com> said:


>>I have a picture of the Catholic Church in the Third Imperium exerting all
>>its old influence and power.  I especially like the image of Cardinal as
>>Subsector Marquis, regal in her bright red robes.
>>
>>I hadn't though of it as a Player tool, only as background.
>
>Well, one would have to avoid the controversy of any "endorsement" of a
>religion. Also of mistakenly (or intentionaly) mocking the precepts of a
>contemporary religion.
>    The concept would fit w/ the medieval imagery and i wouldn't mind
seeing a
>cardinal in HIS red robes.   I'm not that hard assed about such matters,and
>i'm not interested in a theological debate on the tml, but being a Catholic
>Christian, I wouldn't like any of the Clergy being female (much less any of
>the Cardinals or the Pope).  Ditto goes for marriage.  Anyone who wishes to
>debate these issues (or any others) ; ) is more than welcome to take it
into
>private email w/ me.
>    These are the problems (amongst others) one will run into with
portraying
>any contemporary religion in anything as fickle as a RPG.

No arguments from me.  However, have you considered how the Catholic Church
has changed in the 1000 years?  Or how about how many offshoots have cropped
up in the same period.  'Nuff said.

For T4, the religious types question starting this thread, they could be a
subset of many of the already given CharGen sets.  For example, members of
knightly orders could come from Army, Navy or Marines.  Priestly types could
come from any of those as retired (or even active) Chaplains or Scouts (you
know missionaries would need much the same skills) or Agents (for religious
intriguers) or Rogues (well, we have probably all know a roguish clergist or
two) or Scholars (a real natural for the more bookish types).  Heirachical
types (bishops, cardinals, et al.) could be generated using Nobles.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:55:14 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Routine Maintainence

>> the mega-corp) decide to replace the J-drive instead? I wouldn't
>> want to try and convince the players (or the TML) that the age
>> of the deck-plating was relevant :)

>of course, this is readily fixed, then it's age of subsystem/10 for
>maintenence on any major subsystems, say Power, J Drive, Thrusters, Life
>Support. That way the spanking new J drive doesn't need all that much, but
>the creaky 40-year-old fusion plant needs some work, and the %#$@#
>ventilation systems _still_ smell like old sneakers...

  That's the approach that I would use. My point is that telling
the players that it's solely the J-components that are at issue
will simply encourage them to do the math to prove that every NPC
ship-owner in the universe is either stupid or already doing the
J-drive replacement (or re-build, etc.) at a pre-determined age
as cash-flow or financing allows.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:49:25 -0500 (EST)
From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: Lifeboats

> >Larger passenger vessels have lifeboats in at least one canon source (see
> >Marooned/Marooned Alone*).
> 
> I don't know (or care) if it's cannon, but at least one DGP source has an
> excellent lifeboat in it.  Sorry, that stuff is currently impossible to get
> to so don't ask me which it was.  One of the magazines I think.
> 
> 			Zane

In response to Zane's comment in response to Loren Wiseman's to Hal's
<grin>...

  I have in my hands a copy of THE BEST OF JTAS #2, page 34 of the SHIP'S
LOCKER area...

LIFEBOATS: 20 tons, TL8 14 MCR, holding 3 conscious passengers and 20
frozen passengers.  Pilot of the craft needs to roll an 8+ with bonuses
for ship's boat skill.  In the same "section" of the ship's locker, are
entries for Rescue Ball as well as Hostile Environment kit.

  All in all, If Marc Miller is willing to reprint all of the old Classic
Traveller stuff - you people should jump on it.  If he's selling photocopy
"reprints" of the old traveller JTAS - JUMP ON IT immediately!
Personally, it is my sad regret that I didn't keep both the floorplans of
the FASA series from ADVENTURE CLASS SHIPS #1 and #2.  Also, I threw out a
copy of AZANTI HIGH LIGHTNING <sob>.  If those are ever re-released,
people, don't walk, run to get them.

  This is my not so cute way of saying "put these on the CD ROM, willya?"

     Hal

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:55:50 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Modular Payload (was Maintenance)

>>   What if the cunning little gits (or the procurement group for
>> the mega-corp) decide to replace the J-drive instead? I wouldn't
>> want to try and convince the players (or the TML) that the age
>> of the deck-plating was relevant :)
>
>Swapping out the J-Drive (including required tests to make sure the
>"new" unit is hooked up ok, and properly integrated with the ships's
>systems" probably takes *at least* a week. Maybe two.

  I actually meant to imply replacing a 15 or 20 year old drive, when
such proved to be uneconomic by the maintenance rules that started
this thread. By HG, a new J-2 of the same make would cost 12 MCr per
100 Dt, while at TL 11-12 the powerplant alone costs MCr 18 per 100 Dt.
I don't see that podded drives would necessarily matter; it becomes a
ref issue as to whether certifying the newly clipped on drive as perfect
would be faster. After all, the local contractor for Valu-Jump might be
Gator-Aid Enterprises :)

>You *could* design ships where the J-Drive was in a sort of "pod" that
....
>*plus* the capital costs of keeping drive pods around so that they'll
>be available for swapping.

  Both the Freight Tractor and Express Packet from GW's "IISS Ship Files"
use podding; the latter swaps empty for full fuel tanks while dropping off
the mail-bags - this presumes an ability/willingness to make at least some
jumps with only the checking that can be done while maneuvring into the
world and out. The FT simply functions as a flatbed tractor/trailer, having
a pre-loaded cargo box clipped into place before leaving. Theoretically, in
most systems this would take place at a station or rendezvous point just
inside the 100 diam. limit, one assumes.

  These designs don't use drive podding as such; they use payload podding,
and as such aren't really part of the "maintenance" issue, but are directly
related to the point of maintenance, which is minimizing turnaround times
to maximize economic returns.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:55:01 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Spaceports

>  If I may, I would like to point out TWILGHT'S PEAK adventure #3.  It it,
>it discusses how the MagnetoDynamics corporation was able to create a
>class A starport.  What I am basically looking at, from this point of
>view, is what are the minimum requirements to go from what would appear to
>be an X or D class starport, and transform it into an A starport.  How
>much to build the factories that build jump drives, how much to build the
>support infrastructure that permits cargoes to be collected quickly and
>efficiently, how much for the repair shops, the ship fabrication shops,
>the shipyards themselves, etc...

I think that there needs to be more then just this somewhat simple view of it.
Starports, as far as I can figure, are very much like old seaports and seaport
towns.  A seaport couldn't just be built _anywhere_ on a coast, certain
specific things had to be in place already in order to build an area up to
being a seaport.  In addition, a number of support industries had to exist, or
be able to exist as well.

You would have needed in, say, the 18th and 19th centuries, a fresh water
supply, stable land (that is, not swampy land [yes, there were a couple of
exceptions, but these were not the rule]), you needed a reason for ships to be
in the area at all (trade routes, stuff like that), you needed a ready supply
of lumber, preferably cheap lumber (the British encouraged the early American
colonies to build ships since Britain didn't have the needed supplies after
years and years of ship-building, and it was cheaper to ship a ship back then
raw wood).  Although not necessary, a defensible position was highly desirable
(small bays and the like were commonly chosen, and fortifications could be
built on high rocks and such).

The same types of things would go for a class A starport as well.  Somebody
would have to build and maintain the shipyards in the first place (I can
imagine that j-drive factories would be extremely expensive to build and
maintain), and it would have to show a profit.  The maintenance would be the
killer, not the building costs...  Which is why class A starports aren't all
over the galaxy.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:36:02 EST
From: SemoFetus <SemoFetus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

>that are taboo, particularly for the major players like TSR (IIRC, your
>character can still drink grog or ale in a tavern until his sides split, but
>there are no official rules for drunkenness in AD&D).

You're correct, but, I don't suspect this has anything to do with the
Protestant religious groups and their overbearing attitude towards RPGs (and
having been through a Catholic grade school and high school I can say it
wasn't only the protestant types, and I have a really nice anti-roleplaying
pamphlet from an order of Catholic nuns that would be funny if it didn't cause
the loss of a couple role-players due to irate parents as a kid).  I would
tend to think that anyone who needs rules for drinking in AD&D is _way_ too
much into roll-playing as opposed to role-playing.  I'm trying to think of
exactly how much a specific rule for drinking would help any game I've ever
run or been in...  and it wouldn't.

Furthermore, drinking is very hard to model as far as rules go anyway.  Do you
base it on constitution or body weight?  Then, even if you do model it on the
real world, then you run into problems:  what is the alcohol tolerance of a 35
year old fighter from the northern wastes?  How about the alcohol tolerance of
a 350 year old grey elf?  Or a stubby, dour dwarf?

It would be pages and pages of rules that would most likely be complicated,
and not really all that needed, when role-playing it makes it simpler anyway.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 98 22:58:05 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: RPSCS

On 01/15/98 at 12:38 AM,  Richard Hough <rdhough@orca.bc.ca> said:

>I use it exclusively in my campaign. The big advantage of RPSCS is that
>well suited for using during a game session. If is action-packed and fun
>for the players because they take an active role in the combat. 

I'm glad you like it.  That's exactly what we were aiming for when we
designed it.

>The only complaint I have of it is its use of spaceship counters and a map >board. I find these to slow down the play for little benefit, so I just use an
>abstract distance scale (boarding, close, medium, long, and extreme range)
>in my campaign.

Actually, that's the only way I've used it myself. ;->  And I abstracted
the movement too.

>>I have never seen this, and am thus speaking out of ignorance, but I
>>question if it's really needed. The starship combat system as it stands is
>>fairly simple (though some may say simplistic), and really quite easy to
>>use once you get the hang of it.

>RPSCS is easy to use, too. I think it's needed because the T4 space combat
>system is not well suited to using in an active campaign, IMHO. It doesn't
>take the skills or actions of individuals into account, only provides an
>active role for a single player for an entire ship, and is undramatic in
>the sense that the crew is treated as an undifferentiated unit. It seems
>designed more for a wargame than a role-playing game. Moreover, I simply
>like a lot of the RPSC combat rules better; like ranges, sensors,
>missiles, and battle damage.

That's why Joe and I started working of RPSCS last year.  We wanted to get
the PC's and their skills involved in the action. 

I'd like any combat system in a roleplaying game to involve roleplaying for
all the participants.  For squadron/fleet actions that aren't going to be
roleplayed out use a wargame, but even for big actions that involve
roleplaying we need a system that focuses more on the roleplaying and less
on the wargaming.

Hum, seems I've said *that* before..that's how RPSCS got started. ;-D

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 98 23:03:35 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Prisoner - was Sayat conspiracy

On 01/15/98 at 01:48 AM,  J-Man <j-man@iname.com> said:

>>        Amazing how the lack of a single comma kept much of the nation guessing
>> for months each time this was shown. Thus...
 
>>         "Who is number one?"
 
>>         "You are, number 6."

>You've got to be kidding me?  All these years and the answer was under my
>nose?!!!

Ah, come on!  You mean you *didn't* know?  I thought the last episode
completely cleared up who was number 1..I know it did, in fact.

You know, I really wish I'd had a VCR when The Prisoner was on the air. I'd
have loved to have it on tape..and I know it can be purchased, I'm just
*much* too cheap for that.  ;->

Eris,
    frugal to a fault!
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 98 23:19:35 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Asimov

On 01/15/98 at 10:07 AM,  "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> said:

>>Frank and Marc made up the list of Emperors...I don't know if it was
>>intentional or not. In any case, Isaac Asimov influenced us all. How could he
>>not? He was one of the group that invented the future...

>Hey, at NorEasCon III, I got back slapped by Asimov because of a button I
>was wearing.  "Harlan Ellison: 50 years of SHORT fiction"

"I have no mouth, and I must laugh!" 


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 98 23:10:42 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Prisoner - was Sayat conspiracy

On 01/15/98 at 12:22 PM,  Bruce E J Lewis <bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk> said:

>>You've got to be kidding me?  All these years and the answer was under
>>my nose?!!!
>>
>	Yup, most of ours too I should think.

>	Maybe the answer to everything else is under our noses too, like,
>logically, the universe should not exist. So if we proved it so, would it
>cease to have actually ever have done so?

Yes, but only for whoever proves it.  The rest of us will continue on as
before, ignorant and happy.  

So, Grasshopper, what is the sound of one hand clapping, if a tree falls in
a forest and no one hears, does it really make a sound, and just what *was*
the Judgement of Eve? ;->


...ap!
Yes!
All three!


Eris,
    in a philosophical mood

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:07:00 +1300
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Lifeboats

>Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:37:05 EST
>From: GDW GAMES <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
>Subject: Lifeboats
>
>Hal asks:
>
>> One thing that puzzles me regarding safety of ships in the imperium.
>> First off, maritime law (if I recall correctly) requires ships to have some
>> lifeboat provisions for crew and passengers.  Why don't traveller ships
>> have this requirement?  
>
>Because it was one of a kajillion things we never got the time to mention. 
>
>They probably _do_ have requirements, but since no formal design ever included
>lifeboats, the law probably specifies a certain ratio of rescue balls to
>occupants for vessels under <mumble-mumble> tons. 

>Larger passenger vessels have lifeboats in at least one canon source (see
>Marooned/Marooned Alone*).

I posted this to the ISBA list awhile back:

Okay here's my take on what safety equipment the Bureau Of Starships Safety,
Health, and Transit Standards would require a starship to carry as a minimum.

1) Vacc suits: 3 per airlock (located in the airlock), 2 per driveroom
(located in the driveroom). Note that these are not 'normal' vacc suits,
rather these are specifically designed to be used by most humaniod races
within the Imperium. This results in them being somewhat bulky and
uncomfortable (-2 on all tasks). Most crew refer to them as "Baggies" and
will only use them in emergencies.

2) Rescue Balls: 2 per stateroom (located in the stateroom), 1 per low berth
(located with the low berth), 1 per acceleration couch (located underneigth
the couch), 1 per workstation (located at the station); plus others totalling
the maximum possible crew and passenger compliment (excluding low passengers)
located at easily accessable points throughout the vessel.

3) Imperial Standard Individual Survial Kits: 1 per airlock (located on the
hull exterior at the airlock), 1 per driveroom (located in the driveroom),
1 other (located on or by the bridge or pilot's workstation). Note that these
are in sealed compartments, and accessing them will trip audiable (very)
alarms throughout the vessel.

4) Paramedic kits: 1 per airlock (located at the airlock), 1 per 10 passengers
or crew (located at easily accessable points throughout the vessel), 1 per
driveroom (located in the driveroom), 1 per 10 low berths (located by the low
berths, 1 other (located at or by the bridge or pilot's workstation).

5) Hull patches: 1 per displacement ton (located in easily accessable points
near the exterior hull throughout the vessel). Note, as with the Survival
kits, these items are alarmed (you want to know if the hulls been breached!).

6) Emergency beacon: 1 (located at an easily accessable central point).

7) Handheld illumination devices: 1 per 2 passengers or crew (located at
easily accessable points throughout the vessel).

8) Electronic tools: 1 set per driveroom (located in the driveroom).

9) Mechanical tools: 1 set per airlock (located in the airlock), 1 set per
dirveroom (located in the driveroom)

10) Metalworking tools: 1 set (located in the main driveroom). If the vessel
has more than 4 driverooms then there must be 1 set per driveroom (located in
the driveroom).

11) Atmosphere testers: 1 per airlock (located in the airlock).

12) Radiation counters: 1 per airlock (located in the airlock), 1 per
driveroom (located in the driveroom).

NOTES: Since most accidents requiring an "abandon ship" will happen within
100 planetary diameters (and there is virtually no chance of survival
regardless of equipment anywhere else) no vacc suits are provided for
passengers. Rescue balls are provided instead, unlike vacc suits these can be
used by anyone regardless of training (vacc suits require at least basic
familiarisation).

Also, these are minimum standards only. Other more stringent standards will
apply in some cases (specific types of vessels, vessels engaged in specific
activities, and vessels in specific regions). Also, prudent captians will
ensure that their vessels are better equiped.

>Loren Wiseman
>     GDW Emeritus, SJG Emigre

>* Extra points to the first person who names the class of luxury liner
>mentioned in that book. Pity I never got around to designing it.

The liner was called the Cote d'Azur

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm (general)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/abuse/abuse.htm (sexual abuse pages)
    http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/traveller.htm (Traveller pages)

****************************************************************************
We're digging a hole in the road, you can't go up, you can't go down
you'll have to wait to drive around
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:56:24 +0200 (EET)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: Biochemistries

On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Lars Adler wrote:
> So even Aslan, K'Kree and Hiver could use parts of the same nucleic acids
> for their DNA and make proteins from amino acids, only the transkriptase
> will work in an other way. 
> Who knows if Yaskoydray took aout some of his
> DNA and put it into human- (and vargr-)kind?

What makes you think that an alien being has DNA for information storage?
Okay, I admit that all the major races are not included in xenobiology (in
TNE), but still there are organisms on Earth which use RNA, not DNA, for
saving the genetic material. 

Other point : DNA is such a complex molecule that it is very impossible
for it to occur spontaneously, ergo there must have been some simplex
replicators before DNA. So I wouldn't think that an alien organism would
have DNA, even with different transkriptase.

Mikko Parviainen
- -- 
You've wasted a great chance to remain silent.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:49:52 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Safety Inspections.

There's a world in my campaign (Strashnaa/Lishun) where my players waited
with baited breath as the boarding team (why are there so many techs?) just
about dismantled the ship. They weren't looking for smuggled stuff, just
doing a safety check of epic proportions (11 hours on a 300t ship).

Other ships - ones that fail the check - simply aren't allowed to enter the
highport dock, but are placed in 'safe' parking orbits and made an offer of
renting a shuttle to gain access to the port. This carries a fine levied as
punishment for bringing an unsafe ship into orbital space. 

Anal-retentive? Oh yeah. But their line is, "If you want to come here and
trade for our excellent high-tech goods, you'd better come in with a decent
ship. If you expect to breeze in in any old junkheap and endanger our
citizens, expect to pay for the privilige."

They don't have many accidents....

This is an extreme case (Strashnaa is known now as 'safeworld' to my
players, one of whom was arrested for the (in rare cases, capital) crime of
Endangering The Public Safety, and also Slandering The Dictator's Strenuous
Efforts To Ensure The Saftey Of The General Public.)

But I can see a similar system being used elsewhere, too. Who wants a
thousand tons of starship falling out of the sky on their head because the
captain's too cheap to maintain his CG lifters?

I have some other thoughts about safety inspections, but thye're going in
Edge of Empire so I'll not mention them here....

MJD.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2240
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Friday, January 16 1998      Volume 1997 : Number 2241



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Religion Careers
No. 6
Galangic-Sayat Phrase Books
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Foundation
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs
Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography
Re: Lifeboats
Re: Prisoner - was Sayat conspiracy
Re: Religion Careers
Re: Biochemistries
Tech notes
Re: Spaceports
Re: The Family Grav-Car: Infrasystem Requirements
Re: Public Apology
Re: Prisoner - was Sayat conspiracy
Re: Potential House Rule: Starship Reliability Number
Re: Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 06:29:52 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Religion Careers

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/16/98 06:29 AM

<<
Has anyone ever developed a religion career for traveller?
>>

There was a Wilds techpriest career in TNE, I think. (Sorry, couldn't help
thinking of the Monty Python Dead Bishop sketch - the Church Police,
including a Detective Parson and a Vicar Superintendant)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 06:26:05 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: No. 6

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/16/98 06:26 AM

<<
Anyway, if a whole tv series can be made around the incorrectly assumed
inflexion of a single statement, couldn't something similar be done in a
Traveller scenario? Often two words - or names - sound similar but mean
different things. There are two systems in the Spinward Marches that have
similar sounding names, and actually border each other. They are Dinom and
Dinomn. What fun one could have spending six months sending the characters
to the wrong place!
>>

When I was writing real-time software I had a project stalled for a week or
so once, until we discovered that in the interface spec. someone had typed
"central word" instead of "control word" - the subcontractor had assumed
this was what was wanted, and had put the checksum in the middle of a data
burst rather than at the end...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 06:09:06 +0000
From: ASlack@synetics.co.uk
Subject: Galangic-Sayat Phrase Books

Andy Slack@SYNETICS UK
01/16/98 06:09 AM

<<
Why do I see a human walking into a Sayat-Spofulam weapons shop, reading
from the book and sounding a bit like the Monty Python Sketch:
"I will not buy this Pelvicly Mounted Plasma Gun, it is scratched"
"My Air-Raft is full of eels"
"My (insert favorite body part here) explode with delight!"
>>

"You rotten swines, you have deaded me!" I laughed so much at this I banged
my head on the desk. (No, not on purpose - my elbow slipped.)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 04:50:38 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

TravelrTNE wrote:

> >I have a picture of the Catholic Church in the Third Imperium exerting all
> >its old influence and power.  I especially like the image of Cardinal as
> >Subsector Marquis, regal in her bright red robes.
> >
> >I hadn't though of it as a Player tool, only as background.
>
> Well, one would have to avoid the controversy of any "endorsement" of a
> religion. Also of mistakenly (or intentionaly) mocking the precepts of a
> contemporary religion.
>     The concept would fit w/ the medieval imagery and i wouldn't mind seeing a
> cardinal in HIS red robes.   I'm not that hard assed about such matters,and
> i'm not interested in a theological debate on the tml, but being a Catholic
> Christian, I wouldn't like any of the Clergy being female (much less any of
> the Cardinals or the Pope).  Ditto goes for marriage.  Anyone who wishes to
> debate these issues (or any others) ; ) is more than welcome to take it into
> private email w/ me.
>     These are the problems (amongst others) one will run into with portraying
> any contemporary religion in anything as fickle as a rpg.

You see, this is only ahint of the potential troubles I was hinting at in my
orignial post.  As an ex-catholic, vehemently 'devout' aethiest, but nonetheless
appreciative of the Catholic culutre and its ability to preserve, if not accept
and incorporate knowledge. I wouldn't accept such a religion in my campaign that
excluded women without a damn good reason.  Not being able to coneceive of such a
reason, you guessed it, equal opportunity.

Although I certainly don't want to get into an argument about 'real-world'
religion with anyone on the list [trust me, even if you're agnostic, you would
come to loathe me, and vice versa, - I should probably call myself militant
fundamentalist aethiest to give you an idea of the strength of my non-beliefs], I
do wonder how you would defend the idea of a male-only clergy for the
gender-neutral Traveller setting.  Not flame trollig here, I sincerely welcome any
good reasons to do something such as you suggest.  However, since I haven't met a
woman who's even heard of Traveller since  Mini-Con in Joplin, Missouri, USA,
around 1977-78 (which was my introduction to the little black books). gender
discriminatinon hasn't really been an issue for me or my players.  Besides, if
there are girls around, the last thing we were going to do was play Traveller.
Making complete asses of ourselves was much more of a priority.

Rambling too much.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:53:15 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Foundation

>I tried reading it years ago, but never got more than half way through the
>first book. Very disappointed. I may give it another go one day, but I've
>already got a stack of unread books 2' high...

In Traveller we use metrics! How high was that stack again?

:-)


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 04:56:30 -0500
From: "Stevie D (aka Bloo)" <blueboy@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

Richard A. Flores wrote:

> No arguments from me.  However, have you considered how the Catholic Church
> has changed in the 1000 years?  Or how about how many offshoots have cropped
> up in the same period.  'Nuff said.
>
> For T4, the religious types question starting this thread, they could be a
> subset of many of the already given CharGen sets.  For example, members of
> knightly orders could come from Army, Navy or Marines.  Priestly types could
> come from any of those as retired (or even active) Chaplains or Scouts (you
> know missionaries would need much the same skills) or Agents (for religious
> intriguers) or Rogues (well, we have probably all know a roguish clergist or
> two) or Scholars (a real natural for the more bookish types).  Heirachical
> types (bishops, cardinals, et al.) could be generated using Nobles.

Mr. Flores' ideas mirror my own ultimate ideas.  As much as I would like to have
a separate ranks table with Acolyte, Deacon, Chaplain, Priest, Monsignor,
Cardinal, Pope, it doesn't seem necessary since a galactic shurch would have
nearly as many divisions as the government, when it wasn't the government.  And
the necessary range of capabilities and practices should vary.  Seems I'd be
better off just detailing such an organizastion and allow players characters to
shift from career table to career table while in the clergy to reflect time
spent in different capacities: missionary, battle-chaplain, crusader, etc.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:02:24 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs

>One example I haven't seen mentioned: Ken & Jo Walton's Sintra Station,
>in Arcane 7.  Plan's a bit weird, but I particularly like the short
>character writeups.
>
>John G. Wood  |  john@elvw.demon.co.uk  |  Oxford, United Kingdom

Eh, is it on the web, an article, a supplement or what?
Please illuminate the unenlightened.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:08:40 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Space Station Architect's Manual / Starport Topography

>Knightfall (the only separately published MT adventure) has a couple of
>well-mapped starports.  Marc Miller still has a few copies, I think, in
>case you are looking for more of this stuff (try FarFuture@aol.com --
>that's his business address).

There's Champa starport issue of JTAS with lots of background on starports
complete with a map. There was an excellent article in an old White Dwarf
about starports with maps of starports from E to A that I'm currently using
as a template for my own maps. The aerticle argued for startown being
inside the extrality fence and thus Imperial property and with Imperial law
ruling.

>This is a very nice article... I'm keeping it for future reference.
Me too. Printed it out and stuck it in my reference data folder. Great!


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 03:58:20 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Lifeboats

At 05:37 PM 1/15/98 EST, you wrote:

>Because it was one of a kajillion things we never got the time to mention. 
>
>They probably _do_ have requirements, but since no formal design ever
>included lifeboats, the law probably specifies a certain ratio of rescue
>balls to occupants for vessels under <mumble-mumble> tons. 
>
>Larger passenger vessels have lifeboats in at least one canon source (see
>Marooned/Marooned Alone*).

I included "liferafts" in the Coronation.  3dtons, an emergency lowberth,
radio beacon, covered with solar panels, HEPLaR engine with just enough
fuel to kick the raft clear of the disabled ship, then stop it so the raft
is falling along side the wreck.  Makes you easier to find.

The Big C has 500 of these, which will take 2000 of the crew off.  The
remainder have to either hope that the shuttles are still operational, or
risk a rescue ball.

>Loren Wiseman
>     GDW Emeritus, SJG Emigre

The mental image of Loren, dressed in rags and carrying all his worldly
possessions, arriving at SJG's version of Ellis Island is just to rich.  :)

- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 04:10:29 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Prisoner - was Sayat conspiracy

At 11:03 PM 1/15/98 -0600, Eris wrote:

>On 01/15/98 at 01:48 AM,  J-Man <j-man@iname.com> said:

>>>         "Who is number one?"
> 
>>>         "You are, number 6."
>
>>You've got to be kidding me?  All these years and the answer was under my
>>nose?!!!

>Ah, come on!  You mean you *didn't* know?  I thought the last episode
>completely cleared up who was number 1..I know it did, in fact.

Not so fast!  Yes he unmasked himself, but when he returned to London, the
door to his flat opened itself to admit the Butler!  Also, the endof the
series was a reply of the opening credits.. Is Number 6 free? Or is fredom
an illusion that he can now see through?

>You know, I really wish I'd had a VCR when The Prisoner was on the air. I'd
>have loved to have it on tape..and I know it can be purchased, I'm just
>*much* too cheap for that.  ;->

I was a volunteer at the local PBS station the last time they ran The
Prisoner.  KTEH got a local TV columnist who was also a fan to do
introductions and closers for each episode.  Scott whatshisname was a
blast, and for "The Girl Who Was Death" we shot in a park where the
temperture had to be over 100F.  Scott, in his Leo McKern #2 outfit,
managed to put off heatstroke long enough to tape both sections.. in rhyme.

- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|------------------------------------------|
| "Writing is like prostitution. First you |
| do it for the love of it, then you do it |
| for a few friends, and finally you do it |
| for the money."               -- Moliere |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+


  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 04:13:34 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

At 11:42 AM 1/16/98 +1100, you wrote:
>>that are taboo, particularly for the major players like TSR (IIRC, your
>>character can still drink grog or ale in a tavern until his sides split, but
>>there are no official rules for drunkenness in AD&D).
>
>Not in 2nd edition, but 1st edition had the Intoxitaion Table in the DMG.
>As your intoxitation level increased, several stats went down (DEX and INT
>I think, although it may have been WIS), while something else went up
>(moral I think - might have been CON or STR though). It also had things
>like recovery time, and possibly various after effects. I'm not really sure
>that the whole thing warrented a table (or the small section discussing the
>table), but given the tendancy for PCs to go drinking it could have some
>use =).

One of the greatest Murphy's Rules ever was that drinking table.  An
assassin wishing to kill atarget would lower his chances by getting the
target drunk, since drunks get more hit points, and increased moral!
- --
+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "Some days, you just can't get rid  |
|  of a bomb!"                        |
|     -Adam West, the REAL Batman     |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:18:25 +0100 (MET)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: Biochemistries

On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Mikko V. I. Parviainen wrote:

> Other point : DNA is such a complex molecule that it is very impossible
> for it to occur spontaneously, ergo there must have been some simplex
> replicators before DNA. So I wouldn't think that an alien organism would
> have DNA, even with different transkriptase.
> 
What I meant is that the complex DNA (and also the RNA) consists of
nucleic acids which ARE simple molecules and have been found to be one of
the first molecules that existed on earth and in space. So the probability
is high that they exist on other planets, and together with the ribose
and desoxyribose with phosphate links they could (not must!) evolve there,
too. This does not say that an other way of storing information in
lifeforms is impossible, but the same principle that worked on earth could
do so on an other world! But I won't imagine how many different ways there
also exist ... those would be really exotic lifeforms.

The Traveller Aliens, at some exotic they are still humanoid (well, most
of them, if we bend the K'kree and Droyne a little) what means here
walking upright, talking, eating and using weapons. So I would propose
their biochemistry is not that far away from ours or earth fauna. Only to
ease things for a pseudo-scientific description on that.

The basics of (our) life are: water, proteines, carbohydrates, fat and
nucleic acids along with some special molecules for coenzymes. Although
they can be complex, they consist all of little, simple molecules. 

If you want to build a really exotic alien, I believe, you must go far
from chemistry as the periodic system until now only knows 109 elements,
of which the carbon atom is unique.

(The organic chemistry knows some 4.000.000 compounds built with carbon,
against ca. 100.000 anorganics for the whole rest. See the difference.)

L.A.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 03:24:53 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Tech notes

> Special note for gearheads: In your various designs for power
> plants, you now need to include railroad locomotives for TL7+ -
> when I was listening to the radio this morning, they said that
> one municipality in Qu=E9bec was using two of them as emergency
> generators.

A diesel-electric locomotive is largely generator! 

And for that matter, back in the 60s after the Great Blackout, more
than one port city got their power back by "boostrapping" from the
powerplant on a ship in the harbor. 

You see, modern powerplants need a certain minimum amount of power
*before* you can turn them on. Power to operate the controls, the fuel
transport mechanism, etc.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 03:15:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Spaceports

In mail you write:

> The same types of things would go for a class A starport as well.  Somebody
> would have to build and maintain the shipyards in the first place (I can
> imagine that j-drive factories would be extremely expensive to build and
> maintain), and it would have to show a profit.  The maintenance would be the
> killer, not the building costs...  Which is why class A starports aren't all
> over the galaxy.

Ok, for a starport, you need the following:

1. a large, relatively flat area that is either rock, hard packed
   ground, or that can easily be stabilized.
2. a location where typical landing & takeoff patterns *won't* run
   ships over anything too important (in case something goes wrong).
3. Decent weather. You *don;t* put the port someplace that has gale
   force winds most of the time. Rain is ok, as is reasonable amounts
   of snow.
4. Water supply, both for fuel and for people. Likewise, easy method of
   handling sewage and trash.
5. Easily accessible via local transport grid (not a problem at higher
   tech levels, but very important at lower ones).

Other requirements depend on the type of port, and on whether things
like construction/repair can be handled with local tech or require
imported tech.

But given the 5 things above, you can *build* anything else the port
needs, or bring it in via local transport.

It's instructive to consider ports on world with tech levels below 9,
it makes for some interesting possibilities.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 02:37:36 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The Family Grav-Car: Infrasystem Requirements

In mail you write:

> As opposed to direct control, I can see where personal vehicles have
> hard- and/or soft-wired 'safeties' that prevent them from being taken
> outside certain limitations.  Vehicles must travel at at least 500
> meters unless the landing cycle is engaged, privately owned passenger
> vehicles may not be able to climb over 3 Km, a commercial vehicle may
> not exceed 15Km, etc... - without specific licenses and equipment.

There should also be a "ground hug" mode, where the vehicle can follow
the "streets" at an altitude dictated by local rules. It might be 3
meters (so you can't hit pedestrians walking down the "street"), or it
might as much as 20 meters (to avoid hitting the trees they plant in
the "streets".

I say "streets" because they are more likely to resemble a greenway.
Grass, and maybe some graveled/paved paths for joggers and bicycles.

In "ground hug" mode you cruise along at a fairly low speed, far enough
overhead to not run into things, but low enough to enjoy the scenery.
You might even spot a nice open air restaurant and tell the car to land
there for lunch.

Ground hug mode is favored for sightseeing, and for semiprivate talks.
In many areas, the "lovers lane" is an area with a 2-3m limit for
ground hug. That's deliberate so that if a date gets fed up with their
partner, they can just hop out and walk home (It's considered *way* out
of line to try "pressing" things by making out at higher altitudes).
Though "forcing" a door open in ground hug mode *will* automatically
drop the vehicle to 1-2m for safety.

Only in ground hug mode are you allowed to fly with the windows open or
the "top down". That's to prevent people from throwing things out the
windows and "bombing" the people below. (Just like the wire fences on
freeway overpasses)

> I did run an adventure once where the protaganist (who was being chased)
> bypassed the autopilot of the gravcab and took it to orbit to escape....

Lucky for him it was air tight, rather than just using a system to
pressurize outside air. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 01:25:43 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Public Apology

In mail you write:

> Although I agree with you in principle, I'm afraid that line of
> reasoning is erroneous.

Well, *your* line of reasoning below is rather erroneus.

> You see, when you connect with the internet, you are not making *just* a
> local call. You are using all kinds of long distance exchanges and
> hopping around the world. If your talkative teen calls up someone in
> Hong Kong, do you expect per minute charges? Of course.

No, he *is* making a local call. The *ISP* is hooked to a T-1 or T-3
line, and is paying for the use of it. 

As an analogy, if you call a local branch of a company and to answer
your question, they patch you thru their corporate phone network to
someone in Hong Kong, *they* are paying for the call to Hong Kong, not
you. And while the cost of that call *is* going to be reflected in the
cost of their services to you, I think you'd be *justly* upset if the
phone company wanted to charge extra because you were getting
information that hadn't originated locally, even though you had made a
local call.

And in the case of ISPs the analogy doesn't work that well anyway. If I
see traffic that originated in Hong Kong, it's *not* because my ISP
calls Hong Kong. 

RAINnet hooks up to an academic network (I forget the name) and that
hooks up to ione of the nets that comprise the "backbone". I'm not sure
if our T-1 hooks into the academioc network here in portland, or if it
does so in Seattle. Either way, the T-1 is paid for, and the rate does
*not* depend on usage. All the telco does is provide and maintain the
"wire" between the two sites. This costs them the same regardless of
the traffic on it. In fact, as I recall, the charges for a T-1 are
generally based on *mileage* BECAUSE it's a dedicated link.

The same goes for the "backbone" and the links to it. They are also
dedicated lines. Heck, in the case of the backbone, the lines are often
as not *owned* by the network, not by a phone company!

So the *only* place the local phone system contacts or is affected by
the Internet is the *local* calls made to connect to the ISP.

BTW, the long distance argument is specious anyway. You see, back
before BBS systems started dropping like flies, the phone companies
were trying to do the same thing to them. And they *were* purely local
traffic, except for things like Fidonet mail/echoes which were carried
at regular long distance raters, over regular phone lines, usually late
at night.

The whole thing is based on two factors:

1. The phone companies decided that residential data calls weren't any
   reason to update their traffic models.
2. Now that their interoffice trunkage and some portions of the phone
   switches ned to be expanded to handle more simultaneous calls, due
   to #1, they don't want to pay for *their* mistake.

Let me amplify that last point. If they'd updated their models back in
the early 80s, they'd have been budgeting for the extra equipment
needed. Now they *have* to do something, they haven't budgetted for it,
and they've done too much cost cutting "to improve their ability to
compete", so they can't *afford* to keep service at reasonable levels,
so they are trying to blame someone else.

US West and several other RBOCs are in trouble with state utilitity
commissions because they can't install lines in a reasonable amount of
time, they can't repair lines in a reasonable amount of time, and they
can't keep the lines that are installed working. And yet they've spent
the last several years laying off service techs!

Add in things like the fact that ISDN was first tested in the early
80s, yet most phone companies couldn't seem to market it until a few
years ago. 

The phone companies haven't got a *clue* about what their customers
want or how to provide it. They persist in trying to go on as if things
haven't changed. But things *have* changed. And they are going to have
to change.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 01:57:39 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Prisoner - was Sayat conspiracy

In mail you write:

> On 01/15/98 at 01:48 AM,  J-Man <j-man@iname.com> said:
>
>>>        Amazing how the lack of a single comma kept much of the nation 
> guessing
>>> for months each time this was shown. Thus...
>  
>>>         "Who is number one?"
>  
>>>         "You are, number 6."
>
>>You've got to be kidding me?  All these years and the answer was under my
>>nose?!!!
>
> Ah, come on!  You mean you *didn't* know?  I thought the last episode
> completely cleared up who was number 1..I know it did, in fact.
>
> You know, I really wish I'd had a VCR when The Prisoner was on the air. I'd
> have loved to have it on tape..and I know it can be purchased, I'm just
> *much* too cheap for that.  ;->

PBS stations can occasionally be talked into running the series.
There's a "special" version they get that has some added "narration" in
the form of some academic types discussing the episode after it
finishes. And they are actually worth listening to!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 02:50:38 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Potential House Rule: Starship Reliability Number

In mail you write:

>  One thing that puzzles me regarding safety of ships in the imperium.
> First off, maritime law (if I recall correctly) requires ships to have some
> lifeboat provisions for crew and passengers.  Why don't traveller ships
> have this requirement?

Because lifeboats (other than the ship's boats) really aren't
*practical* in space. If you are close enough to a planet with an
atmosphere, the reentry pod idea is of some use. 

If the ship is orbiting a planet, it's not going to "sink". So you can
stayt with the ship. Ditto if it's heading for the jump point or
heading in from the jump point. Traffic regs (and sensible procedure!)
are such that you *don't* put your ship in a trajectory that'll
intersect the planet's surface (or even atmosphere) until you are ready
to land. 

If the ship is landing on a planet, or taking off, the situation is
much like that in an airliner. If something goes wrong, either they can
land it you can "walk" away" or they'll crash, and you aren't likely to
be in good shape anyway.

What the shop *will* have are "rescue balls" (basicly a fabric and
plastic ball with air supply that you crawl into and zip closed),
emergency suits (for those with Vacc-suit 0 and better), and lots of
emergency life support kits.

So the passengers with vaccsuit skill get into the emergency suits (or
their own suit if it is handy) and the rest get into rescue balls. No
doubt passengers with vacc-suit skill will have their accomodations
placed so as to keep a reasonable ratio of suited to "balled"
passengers. 

Then the crew and trained passengers will help move the rest of the
passengers into areas that still hold air (or have been patched to do
so) and set up the life support kits to supply air until rescue.

The reason ships need lifeboats is because they *sink*. :-)

> Also, safety should be a number one requirement for
> ships.  Imagine the effects of a space going ship, entering into the
> planet's atmoshpere, and losing control or losing engine thrust, or
> antigravity?  Can you say MAJOR IMPACT kiddies?

Which is why you won't be *allowed* to assume an "impact" trajectory
exceptas part of a landing manuever. And then, your assigned course may
well be chosen so that right up until the last few minutes, your impact
point if you lost control would be relatively harmless. 

>   In any case, perhaps one should have a situation where the ships come in
> for a landing (or docking in orbit) where shipboard inspectors come aboard
> not for inspection of contraband and such, but for purposes of inspecting
> equipment and testing for reliability in key areas?

It may help to recall the situation that is not at *all* uncommon near
the US coast. 

	"US Coast Guard. Please heave to for a safety inspection"

This over a loud hailer *and* the radio, while they have a .50 cal
pointed at you (or a 3-5 inch gun if you are a freighter).

The gun is because sometimes the ship turns out to be a drug runner...

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 02:00:18 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Stations/Port/Bases: Plans and Designs

In mail you write:

>>Basically, it seems to me that many such structures would be fairly
>>identical.  For instance, Naval Bases would designs would probably vary
>>only by size, i.e., all small ones would be identical, ditto for large
>>ones.  But trading stations and starports might vary widely.
>
> I don't think that even naval bases (orbital, or deep) would be all
> that similar.  They may be built from the same modular components,
> but that's where the similarities would end.  At least the way I
> imagine space stations (of all sorts).  I would think that they would
> get pieced together over a long period, sections would be removed and
> replaced when the cost of maintenance got too high.

One not so minor detail. since they will be growing in 3d, it may not
be that *easy* to remove the "old" sections, since they'll tend to be
in the *middle* surrounded by stuff.

Instead, they'd becomre the "low rent district". Both because of age and
because it takes longer to get to them from the docking areas. 

Eventually, they'd just get sealed off. And you'd wind up with
something like Babylon 5's "downbelow". People living in module with
life support that's patched together and doesn't work all that well,
and may stealing power to keep it working. 

Shrinkage will happen if there's a reason to strip the newer modules
off the *outside* of the station. 

Inner areas will sometimes get redone either after an accident that
guts a bunch of compartments, or when someone decides to gut them to
put in something. So you could be led thru a maze of old passageways
some scarred by explosions or fire, and then go thru a battered hatch
to find yourself in a state of the art facility that someone decided to
"hide" in there. Crooks, shady operators, and intelligence types will
all be fond of this dodge.

In Norton's "Uncharted Stars" there's a station run by the Guild
(Thieves Guild gone techno). It's based on a core module that must be
multiple thousands of years old with patches and repairs made over the
millenia by whoever was occupying it at the time. And it's surrounded
by a virtual graveyard of old hulks. Some abandoned as not worth
fixing, others dumped by pirates as not worth salvaging after they'd
stripped the cargo.  It's been "lost" and "rediscovered" many times. 

I can see something like that in some area where the various imperiums
and pocket empires have soread and then fallen back.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2241
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Friday, January 16 1998      Volume 1997 : Number 2242



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Religion Careers
Re: Asimov
Re: The Family Grav-Car: Infrasystem Requirements
Re: Routine Maintainence
re: Lifeboats
Re: spaceport authority customs
Re: JTAS 2
Re: Spaceports
Re: Tech notes
Re: spaceport authority customs
re: Lifeboats
Re: Spaceports

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:05:26 +0000
From: Phil Kitching <PhilK@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Religion Careers

>Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:53:27 -0500
>From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>

>
>>Has anyone ever developed a religion career for traveller?
>>
>[snip]
>I have a picture of the Catholic Church in the Third Imperium exerting all
>its old influence and power.  I especially like the image of Cardinal as
>Subsector Marquis, regal in her bright red robes.
>
>I hadn't though of it as a Player tool, only as background.
>
Not the Catholic Church, surely

Whilst possible for a Church of England Archbishop or Chief Rabbi (as
occurs in UK)
and for other religions, I thought that the Catholic Church had a specific
rule against priests holding positions of secular power.

Thus the church wasn't a calling for the first son of a family.

But the *brother* of the Marquis being a Cardinal...

Phil
- --
  Mailto:Philk@btinternet.com (don't blame BT - they only pay me:)
  Get out of the Way! Another Salvo bandwagon is beginning to roll.
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 02:19:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Asimov

In mail you write:

> On 01/15/98 at 10:07 AM,  "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> said:
>
>>>Frank and Marc made up the list of Emperors...I don't know if it was
>>>intentional or not. In any case, Isaac Asimov influenced us all. How could 
> he
>>>not? He was one of the group that invented the future...
>
>>Hey, at NorEasCon III, I got back slapped by Asimov because of a button I
>>was wearing.  "Harlan Ellison: 50 years of SHORT fiction"
>
> "I have no mouth, and I must laugh!" 

On the other hand, I was at the Westercon where Harlan gave the
infamous Exogenesis speech. One of the things triggerring it was a
shirt being sold (with no cut to Harlan) that said "50 short years of
Harlan Ellison". 

If you ever need something removed from a surface, just place it near
Harlan and get him mad. His tone will peel it right off.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 02:30:44 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The Family Grav-Car: Infrasystem Requirements

In mail you write:

> I think in my game I'm going to have as background material that all
> grav vehicles operating on civilized worlds MUST have provisions for
> automated control, and unless specially-licensed (police, fire, etc.),
> must always be under automated control.
>
> This means, of course, that such automation must be standard equipment
> on all grav vehicles.  It also means that given such automation, the
> only skill needed to operate one under normal conditions would be 'Grav
> Vehicle-0'.  Get in, punch in your destination, and sit back.  Welcome
> to the friendly skys of Traveller.
>
> Comments?

Well, I think automated control over cities is likely. Out in the
countryside (if any) and over large private tracts manual control would
work. 

I'll also note that at starports, manual control *is* allowed, but
there are defined "lanes" and there's a rigidly enforced max altitude.
If you use the "berms around the pad" design I described a year or two
back, the max altitude is about the same as the berm height. That way
you *can't* fly over a ship that's getting ready for a vertical
takeoff. And of course, flying over the "runways" (for horizontal
landing or takeoff craft) is *not* allowed without tower clearance. 

Since violating the rules at a port can result in losing you
*spacecraft* pilot's license, folks don't mess up much. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:31:02 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Routine Maintainence

Richard Flores posted:

>Leonard Erickson said:
>>You *could* design ships where the J-Drive was in a sort of "pod" that
>>bolts onto the ship, and has pre-placed connectors. But that makes the
>>design more expensive. And you need to have the right sort of "pod"
>>available. I'd be willing to bet that designing the drive that way
>>makes it *harder* to do the "maintenance" on once you get it removed
>>from the ship. ...
>
>Probably not.  If anything it would make it less because once removed, it
>would be totally accessable.
>
>> ... So you'd be paying for *increased* maintenance costs,
>>*plus* the cost of labor and equipment for swapping the drive pod
>>*plus* the capital costs of keeping drive pods around so that they'll
>>be available for swapping.
>>
>>In short, you could save time that way, but it'd $cost$. As usual in
>>the real world, saving time takes money.
>
>This is called a modular vehicle.  "A vehicle designed to have large,
>easily replaceable chunks will have double the structure cost and
>mass. In addition each module will suffer a 10% volume penalty and
>cost 50% more than normal.  That is the total volume of the
>components is increased by 10%, and their total cost is increased
>by 50%.  These disadvantages are offset by the ability to replace
>modules in modules in short order (25% of the equivalent "repair"
>time) to meet a given need." (CSC p 55)

Following disposable contact lenses, we now get disposable jump drives?

Sign up with Stickemin and Swapem, LIC and you can exchange that jump
module at any class A starport. No more need for that irritating, expensive
maintenance of your jump drive, just use it, and swap it. And for a little
extra take our maintenance plus contract, where we take over the
maintenance of you fusion plant, lanthanum grid and manuever drives.."

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:25:27 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Lifeboats

Loren Wiseman wrote:

>Hal asks:
>> One thing that puzzles me regarding safety of ships in the imperium.
>> First off, maritime law (if I recall correctly) requires ships to have some
>> lifeboat provisions for crew and passengers.  Why don't traveller ships
>> have this requirement?

>Because it was one of a kajillion things we never got the time to mention.
>They probably _do_ have requirements, but since no formal design ever included
>lifeboats, the law probably specifies a certain ratio of rescue balls to
>occupants for vessels under <mumble-mumble> tons.

If it's any help, the Starship Operators Manual says the following on p49 -

"Most staterooms include some form of emergency gear.... ...to simple
vacuum suits, to rescue bubbles. A rescue bubble... ...contains enough air
to sustain one individual for one to two hours."

"Various views exist among starship designers as to the need for lifeboats
on a space vessel. They take up valuable space that could be devoted to
improving on board conditions. Many do not include them, because (they
argue) where are the fleeing survivors going to go? Likely as not, they
won't be anywhere near an uninhabited world. So what good does a lifeboat
do them? Other designers insist that even a miniscule chance to escape to
safety os better than no chance at all."

White Dwarf had a nice design for a 20dt life boat (the Reliant Class).
Kenneth Bearden has posted some useful ships locker emergency stuff in the
past.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 03:07:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: spaceport authority customs

In mail you write:

>   Just some thoughts on how to handle Player characters who think nothing
> of using nuclear warheads on civilized populations!  I don't know about
> anyone else, but if I lived on planet, within distance of weapons of mass
> desctruction, I would be extremely nervous...
>
>      Hal

Then you must be nervous about the US and China. As well as all the
other members of the "nuclear club". And the folks with nerve gas, and
bio weapons.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 07:46:48 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: JTAS 2

In a message dated 98-01-15 19:54:36 EST, you write:

<< 
 Does anybody know where I might get hold of a copy of JTAS 2 (specifically
 the stuff about Victoria)? I've tried all my traveller junkie friends here
 and none of them have a copy.
 
  >>
If all else fails, I have a copy I could photocopy.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 07:46:44 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Spaceports

In a message dated 98-01-15 22:31:02 EST, you write:

<< What constitutes a spaceport in
 Traveller.  Oh, I don't mean that class A starports can manufacture jump
 drives and so forth.  What I mean, is how difficult is it to upgrade from
 one starport to another? >>

Attached is what I know about starports.

Marc Miller

THE SITUATION INSYSTEM
	A star system is composed of a primary star and one or more stellar
companions. Orbiting these stars are a variety of planets, planetoid belts,
and gas giants. Orbiting planets and gas giants are a variety of satellites.
But the focus is one world... the mainworld... which is the overall best
planet or satellite in the system.
	The mainworld has a starport which, for all practical purposes, is the
destination of interstellar traffic entering the system. Starports vary in
their capabilities and facilities, depending on the details of the world
itself.

CLASSIFICATION OF STARPORTS
	Starports are classified by their location and by their capabilities.

Location
	A starport may be located on a world surface, or it may be in orbit above the
world. 
	Down. A starport may be located on a world surface. If so, the starport is
most frequently referred to by the world name followed by the word Down. Thus,
Sylea Down is the main world surface starport for the world of Sylea. 
	Why a surface port? Landing close to the market is convenient for all
concerned. If the environment is at all tolerable, then life support and labor
costs are minimized.
	Highport. A starport may be located in orbit above a world. If so, it is most
frequently referred to by the world name followed by Highport. Thus, Sylea
Highport is the main orbital starport for Sylea. A highport maintains
scheduled links by shuttle with the world surface (if there is no surface
starport, then with an air transport hub).
	Why a highport? Many very large ships never land on a world surface; the
cargo they carry is off-loaded in orbit and shuttled down. Some worlds are
naturally inhospitable (bad surface weather, a water world, fluid oceans, or
perhaps government type D or E) and ship owners prefer not to risk their
equipment venturing down to the surface.
	Class A and B starports for worlds with Atmosphere 2+ generally have a
Highport. Class A, B, or C starports at worlds with Atmosphere B+, or
Hydrographics A, or Government D or E can b expected to have a Highport.
	Spaceports. There is typically one major starport in a star system. Other
facilities, especially those on smaller, less important worlds in a system,
are called spaceports. They are established primarily to foster in-system
travel.
	Good spaceports are often established in support of farming projects, mining
projects, or small colonies.

Starport Type
	Starport type is based on a simple letter classification system (ranging from
A to E) which details their basic facilities.
	A. Excellent quality facility with refined and unrefined fuel available on
site. Facilities include capability to perform annual overhaul and new
starship construction (TNAS certified designs). A naval base may be present. A
scout base is usually not present. A surface installation is present. A
highport may be present (generally if the world atmosphere is 2+).
	B. Good quality starport with refined and unrefined fuel available on site.
Facilities include capability to perform annual overhaul and new spacecraft
construction (TNAS certified designs). A naval base may be present. A scout
base may be present. A surface installation is present. A highport may be
present (generally if the world atmosphere is 2+).
	C. Routine quality starport with unrefined fuel available on site. Facilities
include some capability for repair (primarily replacement of TNAS-certified
parts). A naval base is usually not present. A scout base may be present. A
surface installation is present. A highport is usually not present.
	D. Poor quality starport with unrefined fuel available on site or close by.
It has no repair or construction facilities. A naval base is not present. A
scout base may be present. A surface installation is present. A highport is
not present.
	E. Frontier starport. With no facilities, the installation is little more
than a flat expanse of bedrock and a sign. This designation effectively means
there is no starport, but there have been previous landings and that location
is indictaed in records.
	Y. No spaceport or starport. The world has no indigenous space access
capability. 

Spaceports
	Worlds other than the mainworld in a system may also have spaceports. 
	F. Routine quality spaceport with unrefined fuel available on site and minor
repair facilities. A system defense field may be present. A military base may
be present. A surface installation is present. There is no highport. This
designation is a poor cousin to starport type B. 
 STARPORT DETAILS
Type	Quality	Yards	Repairs	Fuel	Down	Highport			
	A	Excel	Starships	Overhaul	Both	yes	note 1			
	B	Good	Spacecraft	Overhaul	Both	yes	note 1			
	C	Routine	--	Major Damage	Unrefined	yes	note 1			
	D	Poor	-	Minor Damage	Unrefined	yes	--			
	E	Frontier	-	-	-	Beacon	--			
	Y	None				no				

SPACEPORT DETAILS
	F	Good	-	Minor Damage	Unrefined	yes	--			
	G	Poor	-	Superficial 	Unrefined	yes	--			
	H	Primitive	-	-	-	Beacon	--			
	Y	None	-	-	-	no	--			

	Beacons. In some cases, a beacon for a long-established frontier starport may
no longer be operational.
	Type Y. Indicates the world has no designated starport or spaceport.
	Class A and B starports for worlds with Atmosphere 2+ generally have a
Highport. Class A, B, or C starports at worlds with Atmosphere B+, or
Hydrographics A, or Government D or E can b expected to have a Highport.

 	G. Poor quality installation with unrefined fuel available nearby. No repair
facilities are available. A system defense field may be present. A military
base may be present. A surface installation is present. There is no highport.
This designation is a poor cousin to starport type C. 
	H. Primitive quality installation with no facilities beyond a beacon
identifying the location. Unrefined fuel may be available nearby. This is a
surface installation; there is no highport. A system defense field may be
present. A military base may be present. This designation is a poor cousin to
starport type D.
	Y. No spaceport or starport. The world has no indigenous space access
capability. 

THE ELEMENTS OF THE STARPORT
	A starport at its simplest is a bare spot of bedrock capable of supporting a
ship which wants to land. The remaining elements of a starport are added later
to support and maintain the traffic that passes through the port.

The Basic Elements
	Each starport is characterized by a few basic elements. Without them, the
starport is not really a starport.
	The Beacon. The location of the starport is broadcast throughout the system
from a central beacon. At its simplest, the beacon puts out a continuous tone
which allows ships to home on its position. In more complex systems, the
beacon provides range and position information for ships in the system,
traffic control information on sister frequencies.
	The Landing Pad. Starships approach from beyond the atmosphere. When
starships set down, most make use of their lifters in order to make a smooth,
relatively slow approach along designated approach corridors. To deal with
ships  with disabled lifters, or for ships which use lifting surfaces, the
landing pad includes long, broad runways.
	For highports, this a designated holding area.
	Traffic Control Facility. Space traffic controllers provide basic information
to ships within the system, vectoring them safely in their approaches or
departures. The traffic control facilities are located at the starport. In
some systems, an auxiliary control facility is located in an outer orbit. 

The Terminal
	The starport terminal houses the basic services for passengers and freight.
	The Concourse. Passenger services are handled at the concourse. Ticketing,
baggage check, and final boarding all take place at this facility.
	Freight Docks. Freight (materials carried by ships for a fee) is loaded and
unloaded at the freight docks. Speculative cargoes are held until sold at the
exchange.
	Customs and Immigration. Applicable laws concerning the people and goods
moving to the world are enforced by Customs and Immigration.
	The Exchange. Speculative cargo is bought and sold at the Exchange. A variety
of brokers handle the transactions and make the process 
	Accommodations. Passengers passing through the starport can stay overnight at
the starport hotel, buy meals at a variety of restaurants, purchase basic
goods and souvenirs at the shops, and pass time at theaters or entertainment
complexes. The level of accommodation available varies widely.
	Data Terminals. Information is available about the world, its products and
services, and recreation at a variety of data terminals. On some worlds, the
data terminal may be a computer; on others, they may be staff people with
prodigious memories; on yet others, they may be librarians).
	Message Center. Access to communications, including physical mail, electronic
mail, telephone, and video is generally available at the message center.
	Emergency Medical. Suitable facilities are provided for emergency medical
treatment. The medical staff has the training and experience to deal with a
wide variety of medical emergencies.

Peripheral Facilities
	Situated around the edges of the starport are a variety of associated
activities and facilities.
	Starport Defense Establishment (SDE). In addition to security personnel (who
function as police), a starport may have an SDE (with a military function).
The SDE is established to defend the starport against organized assault, and
its equipment may include troops, fighter craft, missile defenses, and
artillery. The SDE, to maintain its independence from the local world, is
often a mercenary force specifically created for the job.
	Since an SDE is rarely larger than absolutely necessary, it is possible to
gauge the local perceived threats to a starport by observing the size and
equipment of the LDE.
	Scout Base. The scout service (whether of the Imperium or of some other
interstellar community) may maintain a port facility for the support and
maintenance of its vessels (including those vessels which it may have out on
loan to detached duty scouts). It is possible that the world on which a scout
base is located is not a member of the  interstellar community which the scout
service serves.
	Many scout bases make the information they have accumulated available outside
of their service (including maps, charts, and world surveys).
	Naval Base. The Navy (whether of the Imperium or of some other interstellar
community) may maintain a port facility for the support and maintenance of its
vessels. The base includes administration sections, warehouse for provisions
and resupply, and some security personnel.
	The continuing interest of naval personnel in their career area makes naval
bases favorite stopovers for veterans (even of other navies).
	Sometimes a specific naval base may be considerably more extensive than the
typical installation. Their facilities and equipment come to dominate the
starport rather than complement it.
	System Defense Field. The interplanetary defense forces of a system may
maintain a facility for the support of their vessels (system defense boats) as
they rotate off station from the outer reaches of the systems. The field has a
minimum of facilities (provisions are trucked in when needed; repair trucks
call as required). 
	Shipyard. Ships are built at shipyards. For ships of moderate size which will
be streamlined and capable of landing on worlds, construction often takes
place on world surfaces at starport shipyards.
	Most shipyards specialize in the construction of a specific assembly (which
local industry has shown itself capable of producing) such as jump drives,
avionics, detectors, or even stateroom modules. Other components are purchased
from other shipyards and imported as part of the TNAS-certified parts system.
	Warehouses on-site store components until they are ready for assembly. Ships
themselves are constructed in open-air bays (or in enclosed assembly
structures if the local environment requires).
	Repair Facility. Minor repairs to ships are often accomplished on the landing
pad. More complex or extensive repairs require that the ships be moved to the
repair bays at the edge of the starport. Support installations near the bays
house the instrumentation and equipment necessary for repairs.
	Transport Hub. The starport is usually integrated into the global
transportation net, and arriving passengers transfer from the terminal to the
transport hubs. Depending on the world, the hubs may support sea or undersea
transport, air transport, or ground rail transport. In addition, personal
vehicle rental may be available.
	Industry. Many industrial processes are best carried out in zero-G and/or
vacuum. What better place for such operations than adjacent to a major orbital
transportation center? Industrial modules attached to the Highport create
products or commodities which benefit from immediate access to the ships
calling at the port. Some factories have long-term supply contracts with the
highport itself.

Organization
	A starport has an organizational structure which includes a leader and a
mission; the details of each starport are different, although they are
generally variations on a basic theme.
	The Port Authority. Regardless of the local government in power at the
starport, the governing authority for the facility is the Port Authority.
Financed by a variety of charges and levies on passengers, cargo, and ships,
the Authority uses its money to build and maintain its facilities, and to
provide variety of services. Like starports, Port Authorities vary widely in
structure and approach to their responsibilities. Some are strong corporate
organizations devoted to the pursuit of profit; others are non-profit
organizations which view their responsibilities more as services to the
citizenry; yet others consider themselves a quasi-official arm of local
government.
	The Port Warden. The person in complete charge of the starport is the Port
Warden. Appointed by the Port Authority, the Warden is the chief executive
officer for the facility, and wields great, but not unlimited power. 
	The Mission of the Starport. The starport, as an organization, is committed
to a mission (although that mission may not be clearly or publicly stated).
Typical missions are:
		To efficiently provide facilities and services necessary to accommodate
interplanetary and interstellar traffic for this world.
		To produce a maximum of income for the organization which operates this
starport.
		To insulate this world, to the maximum extent possible, from outside
influences.
		To meet the minimum requirements for maintaining interstellar trade.
	Regulation Enforcement. The police and security arm of the Port Authority has
the responsibility of protecting the orderly operation of the starport and of
enforcing its regulations. It consists of enforcers and emergency technicians.
	The typical enforcer carries out the role of helpful police officer, often
assisting passengers in mundane tasks. Behind the scenes, however, a stronger,
better armed force stands ready to back them up if necessary.
	Emergency technicians provide basic services such as paramedical response,
rescue operations, and fire fighting. Emergency tech stations are situated
throughout the starport, providing the ability to make a quick response
anywhere within the starports boundaries.

Each Starport Is Unique
	Starports vary widely due to the circumstances and environment in which they
exist. When the differences in world size, atmosphere, and hydrographics are
coupled with population and technological levels, government, and trade
classifications, it becomes clear that each starport is an individual
facility.

UNOFFICIAL FACILITIES
	Not all facilities at a starport come under the jurisdiction of the Port
Authority. 
	The Scout Lounge. Those who conduct surveys of star systems and who
continually venture out into unexplored or under-explored space are a special
type of people. After long periods of time alone or with their fellow crew,
they naturally gravitate to others of their kind... to share stories and
experiences which may help them survive. The typical starport has a Scout
Lounge for this type of people.
	The Scout Lounge is usually operates as a semi-private club; theoretically
anyone can use its services, but in practice it is only patronized comfortably
by scouts (and those with an affinity for scouts).
	The Hiring Hall. Crew members looking for work gather at the hiring hall.
Ships calling at the starport look first to the hiring hall when they need new
or replacement crew. Because of ship schedules which must be met, it is
possible for a crew person to be hired and off world within a few hours
notice.
	The Lone Star. Many starports have a recreation facility which welcomes and
serves all comers. At its tables, people meet and enjoy light music or video,
conversation, and meals. To many the Lone Star is an opportunity to meet
others on a casual basis, to develop acquaintances, and even grow them into
friendships.
	The Travellers Aid Society. Some individuals make travel their primary
vocation. If they are able, they join the Travellers Aid Society, which
provides facilities to its members. The Travellers Aid Society is a joint
operation of several large hotel chains, which provide the facilities within
or adjacent to their own hotels and restaurants.
	Members join by depositing a large sum of money as annuity, with the proceeds
paying for the benefits they receive.
	Startown. Although starports are often established near large cities, the
community which springs up at the gates to the starport has come to be called
(generically) Startown. This community is the home of many of the starport
employees and houses many stores, restaurants, and meeting places that serve
those who want to wander outside of the starports boundaries.

EXTERNAL CONTROLS
	Starports and spaceports exist to participate in interplanetary or
interstellar trade. They belong to a network of similar installations, and
each depends on the other to provide the traffic that gives meaning and
purpose to the installation.
	Starports and spaceports must be responsive to three distinct external
controls or powers.
	Local World or System Government. Local government exercises considerable
power over a starport (or spaceport). Through taxation and law, the starport
is dependent on the goodwill of local government. This influence is primarily
felt in the statement of the mission of the starport.
	Interstellar Government. Interstellar government has a vested interest in
creating and maintaining viable starports on worlds where trade produces
economic benefits. Interstellar Government influences starports through
pressure on local government, and by establishing bases (naval or scout) which
increase the viability of the local starport.
	The Ship Owners and Operators. Ship owners and operators serve starports
which allow them to make profits. Even high service fees, taxes, and
assessments do not deter them if there are profits to be made.
	The Passengers and Freight Shippers. Passengers and Freight Shippers are
rarely organized, but their power is felt if they do not patronize a starport.
The organization representing the passengers is the Travellers Aid Society,
which works with starports to improve facilities and services as is
economically feasible.

Travel Zones
	A Travel Zone is a notification that a specific world may be dangerous to
travellers.
	Amber Travel Zones. An Amber Travel Zone label is cautionary: the location
may present some level of hazard to travellers. That hazard may be natural
(disease, local predators or parasites), sociological (uncommon or strange
social practices), or governmental (repressive, intolerant, or xenophobic
policies). Travellers are warned to be aware of these hazards and guard
against them. The Amber Travel Zone label is applied by the Travellers Aid
Society.
	Red Travel Zones. A Red Travel Zone label is interdictive: the location
presents such a level of danger that travel to the location is prohibited. The
Red Travel Zone label may be applied by the Travellers Aid Society, or by an
interstellar government (for the worlds within a system), or by local
government (for a world within a system).

UNDERSTANDING STARPORTS
	The key to understanding a starport is a continuing awareness of its purpose.
Starports exist to foster traffic, and thus trade, between the stars.
Governments may attempt to control or suppress the activities of starports,
but when they do, they naturally suppress the benefits of trade and commerce
for their worlds. The natural state of starports is to flourish; if the
starports world has resource which can be profitably marketed to other
worlds, the starport generate economic benefit.
	Extra-Territoriality. In order to foster interstellar traffic, starports are
extra-territorial. Just as embassies are treated as if they are the territory
of their owning nations, starports are treated like they are off-world space.
Passengers and crew alike are allowed to leave their starships and wander
freely (subject to security and safety restrictions) throughout a starport.
Goods are not subject to customs or taxes until they leave a starport. The
laws of the world do not apply to until a traveller leaves the starport.
	Law and Order. There must be some law and order within a starport, and the
means of achieving that order is the local Starport Regulations. Established
by the Port Authority, these regulations define in detail what behaviors are
permitted and prohibited. For most people, ordinary behavior is sufficient to
stay within the regulations. Strange requirements are typically posted
clearly.
	Ship Construction and Repair. Starships and spacecraft require an extensive
system of construction and repair sites, and the overhead of designing and
maintaining the many parts which go into ships can be overwhelming.
Consequently, many starports subscribe to the TNAS (Quality Ship Design
Scheme): a set of standard component specifications which are manufactured on
worlds with the appropriate tech level and industrial capacity, but which can
be assembled and maintained at any starport of the appropriate type,
regardless of local tech level or industrial capacity. 
	Money. Ultimately, every starport must make money if it is to remain in
operation. Starports cannot give their services away, but most find a way to
hide those charges away from the consuming public. Restaurant charges include
a surcharge; starship lines pay a portion of their ticket price and freight
charges to the starport. Since all of this is concealed from the typical
passenger, the impression is that the starport is a free facility.

STARPORT AMBIENCE
	The ambience of the starport is of prime importance. When travellers arrive
at a starport the atmosphere and the condition of the facilities create an
impression that will stay with them for a long time. This impression (and the
elaboration of this impression) develops over time. 
	The appearance of a starport may range from modern or new to old and decayed.
	The staff of a starport may be respectful and attentive, or rude and
obnoxious.
	Officials may be straightforward and honest, or they may be corrupt and self-
serving.

MANY DIFFERENT STARPORTS
	Starports vary in the way their provide their services. Major influences on
them include the world trade classifications, the elements of the UWP, and
other less clear factors.
	Water World. With land at a premium, starships land in the water (perhaps
sheltered by natural or artificial islands) and are serviced by boats.
	Asteroid Belt. Ships dock in the microgravity of an asteroid.
	Storms. If a world has an exceptionally turbulent atmosphere, most traffic
may choose to call at the highport and shuttle down on craft specifically
engineered for local conditions.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:01:48 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Tech notes

>You see, modern powerplants need a certain minimum amount of power
>*before* you can turn them on. Power to operate the controls, the fuel
>transport mechanism, etc.

In my universe all fusion plants have built in batteries for three colds
start attempts, aqfter that no dice in the world would make it start. I
have a rare entry in my ship encounter tables for trader in need of start
power - a great way to give players rumors, try hijacking them or exercise
your favourite Hans Solo clone npc.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:22:40 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: spaceport authority customs

>Then you must be nervous about the US and China. As well as all the
>other members of the "nuclear club". And the folks with nerve gas, and
>bio weapons.

Private citizens of the Imperium was supposed to be able to buy missiles
for their ships in CT, MT and so on. When TNE came out some wize guy
decided that x-ray det laser nukes were cool so he decided that the
missiles were of this kind.

So in TNE and T4(+) private citizens may own their own cozy x-ray det nukes
(how that meshes with the Imperial rules of war is a question for the
listoids that like the TNE/T4 explanation of missiles).

AS far as I know US and Chinese citizens are NOT allowed to own nukes,
nerve gas etc. The right to bear arms of the US does not allow you to own
nukes does it? (I'm shure some gun geeks out there think it does but...).


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:15:42 +0100 (MET)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: re: Lifeboats

In the RC Equipment Guide for TNE there are a 3dton version and a 5dton
version of a rescue pod that will fit nicely in jettison bays from FF&S2.


Tommy Grav                  tommy.grav@astro.uio.no    
Institute of Astrophysics   http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/
University in Oslo          "If you value your lives, be somwhere 
Norway                       else!" - Ambassador Delenn B5 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 06:19:48 -0800
From: "Edward Swatschek" <edjs@mindlink.net>
Subject: Re: Spaceports

> Date:          Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:31:45 -0500 (EST)
> From:          HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
> ...
> If I may, I would like to point out TWILGHT'S PEAK adventure #3.  It it,
> it discusses how the MagnetoDynamics corporation was able to create a
> class A starport.  What I am basically looking at, from this point of
> view, is what are the minimum requirements to go from what would appear to
> be an X or D class starport, and transform it into an A starport.  How
> much to build the factories that build jump drives, how much to build the
> support infrastructure that permits cargoes to be collected quickly and
> efficiently, how much for the repair shops, the ship fabrication shops,
> the shipyards themselves, etc...

Pocket Empires tries to model this; to build a starport A from 
scratch would take  60 years and cost 15,600 TCr (or double the cost 
and halve the time).


- --
Edward Swatschek  *  edjs@bitslayer.net
                     edjs@mindlink.net

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2242
***********************************

To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:

unsubscribe traveller-digest

in the body of a message to "traveller-request@MPGN.COM".  If you want
to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from,
such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the
"subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller":

subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net

A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
